0 you cannot see it from the road. >> is at a house or a mobile home >> it is a house. my name is alex murdaugh. >> okay, did you hear anything, or did you come home and find something? >> i came home. >> okay. >> no, ma'am. please hurry. >> can anybody out there see y you? [inaudible] [dog barking] >> we just heard you say "i should have known." what are you referring to? >> i said i should have known. >> what were you referring to? >> i was referring to he got so many threats. did not take serious. think twice about. just telling him that we should have known. i don't specifically remember saying that, but i can completely hear myself saying that. >> okay. >> what kind of threats did you understand paul was receiving? >> i mean, paul got -- he got the most vile threats. the stuff that was on social media. it was... you couldn't believe it. you couldn't believe it. it was so over the top. truthfully we did not think anything about it. it was just so crazy, that you know, people talking about what he was going to get and how they were going to do this and get him. it is stuff you really -- i mean, really we disregarded it because it was so over-the-top. thought it was so over the top. >> keep going, please. >> okay, what is her name? >> maggie. maggie and paul. >> maggie is her name? >> yes, ma'am. >> okay. when was the last time you talk to maggie? >> an hour and a half ago, probably two hours ago. >> what? >> okay, you said about two hours ago, you talk to them? >> yes, ma'am. >> you were asked the last time you saw them, and you said an hour and a half, two hours ago, and she followed up two hours ago. you just heard that? >> i did, and i said "approximately" to her question. >> when was the last time you saw them? maggie and paul. >> right after i took a chicken from bubba. >> and the video we have seen has a time-stamp of 8:44:00 p.m. is that correct? >> that's right. >> was a shortly after 8:44? >> it was not long after that. you can hear when bubba gets the chicken. it was not long after i took the chicken from him. >> and then you called 911. there are records of that, but do you recall, 9:07, roughly before 9:07. >> i have seen the records and the transcript, yeah. >> the records of this. this is something innocent until the conversation with the 911 operator, correct? knowing everything we know now, wasn't roughly an hour and a half the last time you saw them? >> it was. however long it took to get to this point, 10:10. however many you look exactly and see what this is, but it is between 10:00 and 10:15, so i had seen them around... 8:45. a little bit after. >> all right. please keep going. >> do you know what they were doing at all? >> no. i talked to her in person. >> you talked to her in person? >> please hurry. >> we still have some questions, okay? you are sure they are not breathing? is he moving at all? your son. you said that she was shot in the head, but what about your son? >> they are not -- neither one of them is moving. >> what is your telephone number? >> 942-1227. i'm going back to my house. just in case. >> did you go back to the house and get a gun? >> i did. >> is this the gun that you got? and how did you load this gun? what did you load it with? >> the best i can remember, i believe i got it off the pool table where you heard there was some other guns. i am not positive, but i am pretty sure it was on the pool table. what have been the first place i came to you. i know i was grabbing the first gun i got. i grabbed a handful of shells that i could get my hands on. i know the gun had a shell in it. that i loaded. and i know i had a few shells. >> have you seen in this case where there is the 16 gauge shell put in the gun? >> i have seen in the record and heard in the testimony. >> is that a 16 gauge shotgun? >> it is not. >> so why did you put a 16 gauge shell in it? >> i obviously did not realize what i was doing. i know you cannot put a 16 gauge shell in that gun -- i have been hunting my whole life. i know you cannot do that. it is not a mistake -- it is not a mistake i would have made under any circumstances other than -- >> why did you go back to the house and get a gun? >> i just didn't know. i didn't know. i mean... so i did. i don't know. i did not know if somebody was still out there. i don't know. i guess i didn't know. >> please keep going. >> does anything look out of place? >> man... not particularly, really, no, ma'am. >> okay. >> go back to where he said he is going to his house to get a gun, just a few seconds. ten seconds. >> i know you are absent, mr. murdaugh, but i don't want you to have a gun out when the officers get there, okay? >> just to get a gun, just in case. >> what is your telephone number? >> 942-1227. i am going back to my house to get a gun, just in case. going to my house. >> you said you were about 100 yards from the house. >> that's what i said. >> wasn't much further than that? >> as you have heard in the testimony, it's 1100-something feet. >> okay. >> i said it was 100 yards. >> you are wrong about your estimate. >> sure, i was wrong. >> does anything look out of place? >> man... not particularly, really, no, ma'am. >> okay. >> i know you're upset, mr. murdaugh, but i don't want you to have a gun out whenever the officers get there. >> my son was threatened four months and months. all the time. >> do you know who was threatening your son? [inaudible] >> you do not know the name of who was threatening him at all? >> my son knows. >> your son knows who was threatening him? okay. >> all right. i'm going back down there. >> rule to the next tape. >> 22 hours, 13 minutes, 58 seconds. >> is it close, ma'am? >> i have multiple people coming out there to you. >> okay, can you do me a favor, mr. murdaugh? can you put the flashers on on your car? >> do you have your flashers on for me, mr. murdaugh? >> yes. >> i don't want you to touch them out all. in case they can get any kind of evidence, okay? >> i wanted to see if they were breathing. >> now that the second clip starts, 10:13, and you are asked -- you tell them don't touch them. have you touched them by then? >> yes. >> is that what you told the 911 operator? >> it is. >> can you say exactly six, 7 minutes, when you actually touched them? >> i know w i touched maggie. i touched maggie several times. but i think i did not -- i don't think i touched paul but two times. >> did you touch one or both of them before you got in the car and drove back to the house? >> yes. yeah. >> one or both? >> both. both. >> all right, keep going. >> i just don't want you to move anything, just in case of evidence, okay? okay. did your son -- you said that he had been threatened. did your son make reports of the saddle? >> yes, ma'am. >> he did? >> you informed of the 911 operator that paul had made reports of these threats. what are you referring to? >> i just know that it had been reported. i don't know that -- i don't believe there was any formal police reports or that type of thing. it had been reported. it was well known. >> okay. >> were you saying he had filed some official reports when he said yes? >> i have never thought that there was a police report or some form of report like that, no. >> do you know whether or not he made some type of report on campus? >> i know he didn't. >> what do you know? >> i know that there was a time when he was asked to come meet with -- i can't even remember the woman's name now. but... i appreciated it so much, and i never thought i would forget it. >> the counseling services? >> yeah, he was the dean of students, but anyway, he reached out and wanted to talk to him. at first we were concerned. you know. why do they want to talk to him? even -- i believe i have paul come talk to you about that because we were concerned. what do they want to talk to him about? when paul and jim got there, it turned out that it was really just... i mean, they were wanting to make sure he was okay. with, you know, just make sure he was okay. and i know that they were aware of the threats or some level of threats, so, yeah. it already had been reported to them. >> keep going. >> what is your son's name? >> paul. >> paul? >> ma'am, i need to call some of my family. >> okay. whenever you see the officer or the medics, can you put your gun in your vehicle for me? >> absolutely. >> put it on your vehicle so that they can see you, okay? you have the flashers on for me? >> i do. >> okay. all right. whenever you see them, put your gun up for me, okay? >> okay. >> how old is your son? >> 22. >> we are getting them out there to you, okay? all right. >> so, alec, did you call family after you got off the call with 911? with the operator? >> yes. >> did you call? >> i called my brother, randy. i called my brother, john, and i know i tried to call rhoda. rhoda is not family, but i called randy and john. i called randy and john. >> you just mentioned rhoda? >> rogan. i called him ro-ro. >> why did you try to call rogan? >> i mean, rogan -- rogan's house was like -- i don't know -- maybe two and a half miles, three and a half miles. i mean, rogan was like family. >> did you think he was the closest person? >> i just wanted somebody to be out there. >> how do you see in rogan's name on paul's phone in any way that night? >> no. >> you called. did rogan answer? >> no. >> did you try multiple times? >> looking at these records, i believe that i did, but i believe some of those are like face time calls that are to rogan. i am trying to call him, but i don't believe that was me actually. i did not face time people. so i think that is -- even me trying to call him and hitting face time. that is hitting buttons. hitting the phone. >> the state's exhibit 519, which is the condensed timeline done by the agents, there is an indication, alec, that 10:22, you opened a group text stating "she brought the heat from ime boys." where you reading text messages? >> i heard them ask that question. i can promise you i was not reading any text messages. >> there is also an entry that says add 10:40:00 p.m., you did a google search or a safari browser search while your wife and son are laying dead on the ground. did you do that? >> no. that is a restaurant that we ate at a lot of times we got takeout from, so i'm assuming it was in my search history coming up. obviously i was trying to call people or dialing, and i hit that. i was not doing any google searches. >> one of the persons that you googled a wedding photographer? >> there is a guy named brian white. i saw that on the call log. he was in my -- what do you call it? my contacts. a videographer that i have used in cases. i have not used them in two years. he is a good guy, but we are not personal friends, self i certainly was not calling him. >> so were you... what does that indicate to you that those actions are on the phone? how do you account for that? >> obviously they are unintentional. i'm doing something with my phone, but i am not trying to call those people. i'm not doing a google search for any whaley's restaurant, and i am certainly not reading any texts. >> i want to ask you -- >> ladies and gentlemen, a break. about 10 minutes. stay put for a minute. ten minute break. >> 45 minutes. >> harris: all right, so we are going to take a break because this trial is taking about a ten minute break, and what we have just heard there, fortunately, we have doug collins to talk about it. a defense attorney who actually, since we've been sitting here on the "outnumbered" couch, has really done more than the defense attorney was doing. we are "outnumbered," of course. i'm harris faulkner. my cohost, kayleigh mcenany joining us on the counts today. rachel campos duffy pure fox news contributor leslie marshall. and again, former georgia congressman, doug collins, also a criminal defense attorney. boy, this was like you giving us a primer on how to defend this case. what have been some of the things that have stuck out? and it has been hours of testimony now. >> doug: one of the things you are trying to do there, they have had everything. they have presented their case for the most part, but now you've got to deal with this is a real human being, someone that they are portraying is willing to kill their life and son, and one of the pieces that we talked about there, some of the inconsistencies. is there a reason for an inconsistency? they talked about the face time issue. all of us had had our phone and gone to a face time issue. have you ever done this by mistake before? that is what they are trying to do. >> let me ask you about that because there were several of these instances. google searches. you were like everything is time stamped. he's going to have to substantiate did you googled a restaurant? what did you do? >> doug: i surely would not be doing this -- she sort of implied it was a mistake. so i think they are trying to portray here someone who does not know what he's doing. he is really upset. they play the 911 tapes. they are trying to build him as a sympathetic figure and someone who found their family members dead and a very bad situation. they also were playing the discussion about the threats against us on. which i think it is an issue because they said now you told her about this. how did you do this? so again, laying out there that somebody else could have been involved in this. >> harris: and it is critical too, right? rachel, i think it would be. there has to be beyond a reasonable doubt that anybody -- no one else could have done it, so when you have a contaminated crime scene, and everybody has talked about that, from attorneys we have had on as guests to people who live in that area, when you have a contaminated crime scene, it can wipe away the ability to figure out whether or not someone could have done it. that's why you hear the dispatcher, we just do not want you touching and moving a lot of things and there is some evidence. >> rachel: this is an interesting case. i have not been following it as closely -- i have been fascinated to know why everyone is so fascinated, frankly. he keeps saying i did not intentionally kill my wife or my son. it is like who talks like that? it is very odd. i don't know if it's because he's a lawyer and he does that. most humans do not -- >> harris: so what does that say to you? i could see the physical -- you were like what? nobody talks like that. >> rachel: nobody talks like that. to me it sounds like he is a lawyer, and he knows a lot about hall the whole system works, and he's trying to cover his basis, but i am not sure that that is the right to act with the jury. >> harris: as he watched us, leslie, and i don't know how glued you have been to this case, but i do know that you do a very successful call in radio show, looking at us, trying to solve it on their own -- >> leslie: there is so much. i think they are trying to stay a step ahead and come down on cross. doug and i agreed on way too much in the green room. this and other things we might get to talk about. >> harris: probably call in to radio show. [laughs] >> leslie: hi, this is david. [laughs] but they need to put a human face on him. we all know it's very risky to put your client on the witness stand, but this is a lawyer, and lawyers can make incredible witnesses. i'm very excited to see what happens on cross. before you see this man, the jury and those of us in the jury of public opinion are looking at there is a lot going on here. allegedly hiring somebody to shoot you in the ahead, fired from a law firm. you have an addiction. you're broke. your wife was leaving. the list goes on and on. everyone says you did it. that is what it points to. but this is not a slam-dunk, and by putting him on the stand, they are showing him as a human. you see a man crying. you see the tears flowing. you see the emotion. i love what you said during the break here, that they are watching him while they are playing those tapes, so we are not just hearing him, but we are seeing the reaction. >> harris: kayleigh, the moment we started watching together, it was interesting. you pointed out all the inconsistencies in the story, but this humanized him. are you having a bifurcated reaction? >> kayleigh: absolutely, which i think was the entire intent of the defense. before i heard from alex murdaugh, tax evasion, financial crimes, you know, weird, tragic death on the boat of that young girl in the housekeeper appeared there's a lot. it is easy to convict in the court of public opinion, but the moment he took the stand and you saw the emotion describing in graphic detail that i don't want to repeat about what his son looked like, he was incon inconsolable. he could not speak. he described the way his son liked, and as a parent, you got to resonate in some way without emotion. when he was asked to describe his son, you said you could not be around him and not have a good time as he is completely heartbroken, but then you get to the moment where he has asked did you lie to the agent about where you work? i did. i did lie to them. he said multiple times that he lied, so you begin to wonder is this just best con artist of all time? >> harris: you know, we want to hear part of what he was saying about what kayleigh is describing. the moment where he denied killing his wife and son. let's watch. >> on june 7th, 2021, did you take this gun or any gun like it and shoot your son, paul, in the chest in the room at your property? >> no, i did not. >> mr. murdaugh, did you take this gun's or any gun like it and blow your son's brains out on june 7th or any day, any time? >> no, i did not. >> mr. murdaugh... did you take a blackout, such as this, and fire it into your wife maggie's leg, torso, or any part of her body? >> no, i did not. >> did you shoot a 300 blackout into her head, causing her de death? >> i did not shoot my way for my son any time. ever. >> harris: talk to me about the legal efficacy of having him as an attorney, as rachel pointed out, he would probably be more shrewd than the rest of us in the words that he might say, but also just not strong denial. >> it was a strong denial. i was looking at leslie when his attorney said "blew your son's head off." that was powerful language. it evokes a reaction from him. he said no, i did not do that. that was an interesting play on words. back to the intentional part, remember how he is charged. intentionality is part of some of these charges, and i'm not saying he is using that word -- but you brought it up, so okay maybe that's why he said i would not intentionally kill. i do not think it is an affirmation that he did, but it is interesting that he is using a word that is part of -- >> kayleigh: maybe there is a cultural divide, did you -- i don't know -- no, of course i did not blow my wife's head off. no, i did not -- i mean, yes, there is a certainty about it, but i see a lack of a motion even there. >> harris: and that is interesting because that is what the roll of the dice is. >> rachel: better not have a latina on the jury. >> harris: how we react, it is a human thing. i don't know that it is always cultural, but attorneys are going to know. we are all going to react differently. as moms, we are going to have a different reaction, seeing his son on the ground. as human beings, we are going to be different. maybe a play as well -- i call that strong. you call that strong. you wanted to yell. because we are individual people. >> leslie: just follow me for a second. they have these two twins. have you seen this? they are watching whitney houston. i am not going to sing. don't worry. and then the two twins jumped. i have watched it seriously like ten times. it's hysterical. you and i jumped when the defense attorney described it as "blowing brains out." either i am a latina, or we are all on the same page, his wording, that it was different than at least three of us sitting on the couch. >> kayleigh: reaction is one question, but ultimate