can we read? should we read into that so the supreme court often leaves some of the most controversial cases for the final day and then they leave town. >> and it also doesn't then have an effect on their other parts of their caseload in terms of how they or their opinions or received i do think that there's almost no chance that donald trump will be vindicated with a maximise view of presidential immunity. and i think when we see the case on monday, big question will be, what is it also me for future presidents? is there this blanket immunity or not? i do not think the court is going to give that that's so interesting, it's always great to have you here. thank you so much. thank you. thank you. thank you thank you for joining us. the news continues here on cnn save from the source. tonight, a fiery president biden says he's not going anywhere is the new york times editorial board is calling on him to drop it out of the race for the good of the country. and the fallout tonight from donald trump's avalanche of lies last night, a firehose of false. so it's really aimed directly at now, we've learned more than 15 million viewers. i'm kaitlin collins, and this is the source even at this late hour tonight president biden his campaign are still scrambling, like they never have before, to pull off what could be a mission impossible on ringing the alarm bells that are sounding within his own party this after the president and the presumptive nominees disastrous performance in front of 50 million viewers last night right here on cnn if you're still processing what happened and what you saw, trust me so are we and president biden today was out on the campaign trail attempting to tamp down the panic among democrats i know i'm not a young man. >> i don't walk as easy as i used to. i don't speak as smoothie that i used to i don't do bad debate is well, as i used to well, i know what i do know. i know how to tell the truth i know but millions of americans know when you get knocked down, you get back i give you my words of biden. i would not be rounded again if i didn't believe with all my heart and soul i can do this job okay. >> well, that was held 10,000 decibels louder and clearer than what we all watched and heard for 90 minutes on stage last night. but at that rally in north carolina today, i should note the president had a teleprompter. he was energized by that adoring crowd supporters that you could hear in the background, it took place in the middle of the afternoon. at one point during that speech by did basically acknowledged that he blew the debate last night, which i should note, what those ratings could be. one of the most-watched events of this entire 2024 campaign. now, biden is promising voters. he has four more years in him to do this job. but it is still an open question tonight of whether those assurances that we are hearing from him are going to be enough for those in his own party who floating the idea of whether or not he should be replaced on the ticket? that includes tonight, the new york times editorial board with this headline just publishing a short time ago to serve his country president biden should leave the race we're gonna talk more about that editorial board and what they're writing. they're what their argument is in a moment. but i should note on the other side of all of this, president biden does have quite a powerful ally who is coming to his defense. does former running mate on the presidential ticket, former president obama, who i should note as we talked about on this show last week, his face, his own crisis of competence on the debate stage he said today, quote bad debate nights happen. trust me, i know. but this election is still a choice between someone who has fought for ordinary folks his entire life, and someone who only cares about himself of course, the man that president obama is referencing there is the one who is sharing the stage with president biden last night, former president donald trump, who had this to say out on the campaign trail today. >> did anybody last night watch? i thing called the debate that was a big one. joe biden's problem is not as age, it's not as anything really, it's got no problem other than it's just competence he's grossly incompetent. they keep saying gold. i know people that are much older than him him that are doing unbelievable things my source tonight knows the conversations that are happening inside biden's inner circle. >> mitch landrieu is the national co-chair of president biden's reelection campaign and mitch, it's great to have you here tonight. just first on this new york times editorial board, the argument? yes. thank you for being here. they're calling for president biden then to step aside and their basis for this is they're saying the last night he struggled to explain what he would accomplish in a second term, he struggled to respond to mr. trump's provocations. he struggled to hold him accountable for his lies, his failures, his chilling plans more than once he struggled to make it to the end. of a sentence. mitch, i just it's a question everyone had. i think what happened last night? >> well, first of all, the president and politely declined in new york times offered a stand down he's going to stay in this race and he's going to win president biden today. you just showed a great clip of him that's the joe biden that i know. that's the joe biden then i'll worked with for two years in the white house as we rebuilt the country and built 15 million jobs and created the lowest unemployment rate. i think president obama says it well doors current goods when said it before, people have bad nights, that's the closest you're going to get to joe biden admitting that he had a bad night. these things happen in campaigns. and i think everybody who watched that debate last night kind wondered, why did he show up that? wei, but it has happened before. it will happen again. the most disappointing thing to me though last night was not joe biden's performance. it was a fact that nobody fact check donald trump. and now that we've had a couple of hours to think about what he did. we now know factually, and this is from your network that almost everything he said was a lie, literally everything was a lie except when he told the truth about doubling down on all the awful things he did when he was president the united states. and that he promised to do again. you saw chaos. you saw the real donald trump. he's going to double down on it and the country is going to have a choice. i will take joe biden's bad debate day against four years of another donald trump presidency. any day, anytime any place we did in fact, check donald trump last night, we have daniel dale lawn. i talked about it as soon as we get out of the debate. of course, he was lying about january 6, any other things? and we're going to talk about that more in a moment. but but biden is the candidate that you're working for and today you're defending him. i mean, he was reading off a teleprompter during that rally today, he'd go off prompter for a bit of that, but he was really not a teleprompter. and last site, 50 million people were watching 50 million people were not watching that speech in north carolina today. and so i just the question is can president biden recover from that? >> well, first of all, i think i think you're going to hear today and i don't think that you can really kind of put lipstick on this pig. the president had a tough time last night. he admitted that today, bad bad debates happen from time to time. the president has as a record, their stand on, it's a good thing that they're doing well in the debate is not the same thing as governing a country. and we actually have two records and the receipts of two presidents that have served for years. donald trump was cataclysmic for this country after the pandemic, donald trump did an awful job. donald trump participated in an insurrection. donald trump lost 2.5 million jobs. we have 40 of 44 people that worked for donald trump that a begging us not to put him back in the oval office again, he has now, as you know, been convicted of 34 felonies. and of course he's got all these other legal troubles so i'm not what i meant to say about not checking, doing it was during the debate, after the debate. and now that we've had time it's a look at it. i think people have now begun to say, wow, if you compare these two guys records and joe biden, success, i'd rather have joe biden then have donald trump and the president is going to have to go out there and prove it like he did today. and i think you will agree with me his presentation today was energetic, it was strong, it was forceful, it was at times humble, and it was at times leaning forward biden that i know. and the one that i've worked with, it was a 15 minutes speech to be fair. also, the teleprompter compared to 90 minutes with no notes and no prompt. her last night. >> i think i'm just on the overall and the point you're talking about the style of that, but that is something that people remember and debates. >> i mean president nixon would, would like to point that out, right? that that was an obviously an issue for him that cost him dearly. but on the argument that you just made, why could it president biden or why didn't he articulate that last night in his closing argument? he didn't mention abortion. he didn't mention donald trump correct. fiction. he didn't mention the indictments against him. he didn't mention january 6. why didn't he mentioned that in his closing arguments, right? he he he was because he walked the ball last night. that's the only answer that you can have. but well, whether you do well on a debate has nothing to do with how well you govern the country. that's when you look at the receipts. and there are receipts that both of these presidents have. one guy as the president said, is like a walking crime syndicate. the other guy gets up every day working off for the american people and has delivered more than most presidents in the history of the country. and the question is which one of these men? it's going to take america into the future because one of them wants to go forward. that's joe biden and the other one wants to go backwards. that's donald trump you talked a lot about what's at stake in this election. >> we hear it from democrats all the time. we hear from president biden saying he believes he's the only person best equipped to be donald trump because he's the only one who's ever done it before. but if all of that is really it stake based on what you saw last time, based on what voters more importantly saw last night, do you still think that president biden can beat former president trump and erase? >> absolutely. because because whether you do well in abate does not have anything to do with how well you govern the country. how are you governed the country is judged by how well you have done. we have not had a president in the last 40 years. it has created 15.5 million jobs and created an economy the way that we have has built 57,000 projects, rebuilding the infection a ballot would go and vote. they're gonna be also thinking of what they saw on that debate. i mean, you have to the argument you're making, but you also have to think of how voters are our perceiving this i don't know how many times i can say to you that department did a poor job, but this race is four months from being over and there's another bait to come and there are a whole bunch of rallies and there are a whole bunch of water still to go onto this bridge. >> you asked me if i had confidence in joe biden and i have 100% confidence in joe biden. and by the way, it will be his decision in his decision alone, whether he's going to tell you and i think he answered that question for the public today in north carolina is there any conversation about him not continuing? no. >> it's a you're in hundred percent confident he will be the democratic nominee on that ticket come november, as far as i know today. and based on everything that i have seen and heard and people i talk to you, i don't have any reason to believe that he will not be if he did decide to drop out who who's counsels he is he taking on that obviously is a very close inner circle, is at the first lady? is it his sister what does that look like for voters? >> well, first of all, president biden, as you know, has been an office for a very, very long time, and he's got a close set of family, friends, they're the ones that he counsels with, but at the end of the day, he's the one that makes the decision because the buck stops with him he said last night, i may not be a good debater, but i know the difference between right and wrong. i know how to get things done, and i know what the future of the country has no, by the way, he made the point that donald trump spent a good portion of his time last night just dogging out america and making people think america was on her back legs. she's not the best is yet to come and we have a great future in a great opportunity as a president said, as he ended a speech today, he's never been more optimistic about the future of this country. >> don't worry, we're going to talk about donald trump's performance in that debate is all mitch landrieu. thank you for coming on and joining us tonight. thank you for your time. thanks. katelyn, can't wait to hear it. thanks so much. bye bye. >> and i've got an all-star political here tonight. we will be talking about everything, but i want to start with two democrats who have worked with and for president biden and david xor. when you see you and hear what, what mitch landrieu is saying and response that he is politely declining the nadh the push from the new york times editorial board that he should step aside. they're saying for the sake of it country that he's been a good president. they're not arguing. he hasn't, but they're saying that for the sake of the country, it's time for him to step aside. >> yeah. but there's a difference between being an editorial suite and being in the real-world of politics. there's a lot of complicated steps between here and there. and what democrats have to consider is what is a greater risk? there's no doubt i think the president is behind in this race. and it's going to be a struggle for them to win. but the question is, can you nominate a candidate without a primary in a diverse party between now and august by some sort of consensual process. and then can you take someone who's never been involved in a national campaign at that level and put all the pressure of the world on them. there's risk in that too. and i think that has to be considered yeah, i think lbj would note that bit, but i can you were very blunt and years and i show you worked for president biden when i was covering president biden, you are the communications director. obviously, you know him very well. you would have very blunt assessment of his performance last night and when we're talking about the first lady, obviously, she's deeply influential on president biden. they're at a fundraiser, truly a block away from where we are right now and she just told the crowd there and i'm quoting the first lady now. and you know, after last night's debate, he said, you know, jill, i don't know what happened. i didn't feel that great and jill says that she responded, look, joe, we're not going to let 90 minute define the four years that you've been praying president but it's not necessarily about them defining it. it's about voters and how they define it. yeah, and i think they're going to see him out on the campaign trail. they saw him today. they're going to see him over the next four months of this race. it was last night was a significant moment. it was an important moment. it was not a defining moment in the sense that is, all voters are going to take in about joe biden for the next four months it's also not all are going to take in about donald trump for the next four months, who was also out today doubling down on some of the things he said yesterday about you're not disavowing january 6 and a lot of things that we know were really i've putting to swing voters and were problems for him and the debate yesterday. so there is a lot of campaign left. i would also say just to the new york times endorsement, i cannot think of anything that would make joe biden less inclined to drop out of this race than the new york times editorial board telling him he should if you go back to 2019, they were dismissive. they were jati they said there was no way that he could be the nominee they in a stroke of very interesting political wisdom, jointly endorsed amy klobuchar and elizabeth warren for president. they are divorced from the reality of politics. they don't understand joe biden there's nothing that's fair. i don't think a lot of voters are checking to see what it says, but they it did come with a lot of op-eds today. tom friedman, who adores president by, knew who was saying he was weeping at that performance this last night. scott, what did you make of what mr. landrieu had to say about about their defensive biden well, he's peace plan, a bad hand today and he did about the best he could, given their performance that we saw last night. >> but the problem is, it's not just about the 90 minutes what the american people saw and what they're going to extrapolate is that's basically how it is every day that that's what they're going to take away from it. they're not going to remember much about the policy exchanges. they're just going to think, does this guy look like somebody who could go in and out of the office every day? for the next four years, maybe for the next seven months. that's it. that's the bottom line. and a comparison of records, a comparison of who told more lies. it's just it's not going to fly. can i just say one thing? first of all i really i love mitch landrieu. i think he's a great guy. he was a great marries, a great politician and he do, he did an admirable job there. but what he said and what the first lady said is goes to something that bothered me about the debate last night elections are not about the evaluation of what you did the last four years. there are about what you're gonna do the next four years and what the other guy is going to do in the next four years. and so that people can get some sense of what's in it for them. in this decision and that's what that's another thing that the president didn't do last night. we were told that he was going to do that and he didn't really bring that to the debate. he became a lot more defensive than i think he should have and you are warning about that and bitly when you're looking at this just from a historical perspective, i mean watching that last night, we heard a lot of people saying today, every incumbent president as a bad first debate, i mean, this takes the cake for modern history probably. >> i mean obama saying yeah, i know what it, how it feels. it wasn't quite this level. president obama was finishing his sentences and the debate he was, but we also have a presidential candidate who had alzheimer's and had dementia and was on a debate stage and 1984. and we're his age was a constant, right? a constant reiteration of is he fit can he be president, right? and that's ronald reagan. so the person that trump like to bring up a lot last night, in fact, had the same age questions that i think biden is running up against the difference, however, is that the age problem in the past has been one that i think both the candidates have addressed head-on. reagan. does this and immediately and says, it's my it's my experience it's your age, your young age that differentiates me from mondale. we have it with somebody like lbj president lbj who takes himself out of the running because of his health and consideration. the differences though it were it's always been a back-burner issue. it is now front and center in a way that we cannot ignore. and in a way that i think obscure actually real damage in obscuring what is going on with donald trump in the message that donald the very alarming message that donald trump put out last line, and reagan's first debate was a disaster, something that nancy reagan acknowledged after that, i want to talk a lot more about this and just what the implications of this are, what you're hearing from democrats as well? okay because of course what matters most here's what the voters think, especially swing-state voters. well, we went and talk to some of them today, today, including its grant joe's hometown crowd and whether we're not there still behind him in pennsylvania, hear from them yourself. and also not to be buried by all of the biden drama donald trump had a layer of lies last night if the debate, we're at a time talk about all of them with anthony scaramucci tonight the cockroach resilient creatures, true, miracles of evolution, where there is one others far behind always scavenging for food. >> the cockroach will. >> now that's horrifying your favorite ortho home defense max, enduring sec barrier one application kills and prevents bugs for 365 days at my house, you down nature's wild your home doesn't have to be high there i'm an ad ever noticed how some ads just speak to sad the advertisers place their ads where people like you actually are streaming your favorite programs. that's why they choose vi. it can make an impression so if you want the latest ai powered buying tools to execute and measure your connected tv campaigns on premium streaming inventory, choose wisely, choose phi of liberty mutual customize my car insurance and i saved hundreds with all the money i saved thought i'd by still say honey oh, look, no line at the hotdog stand only pay for what you need let me introduce you to classify them. >> hundred lean to it is an easy to use trading app that gives you a glimpse into the future of futures trading. see a trading opportunity. you'll be able to trade it in two clicks once your account is open no matter what kind of trader you are, plus 500 has you covered with a tailored solution? 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-five years. introducing the comcast business 5-year price lock guarantee. powering 5 years of savings. powering possibilities. madowo on the streets of nairobi. >> and this tonight, voters are bristling after that debate that we all saw highlighted and choice that a lot of them frankly, do not want this november cnn's danny freeman went to president biden, hometown of scranton, pennsylvania to talk to voters in the crucial swing state at zoo most cafe in scranton, pennsylvania, the coffee flowed friday morning and so did the post debate emotions sorry it was painful to watch. i feel like i the candidates were two kids. do you can it out in preschool? i feel disorder granted. >> that's the word that i've been trying to come up with robin burnt is the owner of the cafe, just blocks away from where president biden grew up. we allow and biden were were screened one in and we want him to be successful and we want to feel that connection like i felt over the last four years. and independent, she voted for biden in 2020, but it's now left hoping biden gets a second chance to prove he can do the job. they just don't think that was really well represented. >> so i'd like him have an opportunity to give it another go. >> wow, he stumble. i don't think it was his best night really. and you have three truthful about that. >> lifelong democrat done a devito was disappointed by biden's performance, but still said she wouldn't vote for former president trump. >> that debate did not spark kenny concerns in joe biden and president biden in his ability to spend the next four years leading our country. >> but lexi to woolf disagrees i don't know what four more years would look like for somebody who's already at that point, the wolf voted for biden in 2020, but now fears he doesn't have what it takes for the job. did you have concerns about biden's capacity in your words, before last night? yeah. yeah. but i think last night was worse. here in typically blue lacquer juan county, biden won by fewer than 10,000 votes in 2020, the margins here crucial as biden won pennsylvania by about 80,000 votes, i was thrilled. >> i couldn't have been happier republican activists and avid trump's support or robin medea's loved the debate thinks trump's performance will galvanize the former president's base it certainly will help biden was in such deplorable condition that it certainly will help mike men zeno turned off the debate early. >> i think president trump performed like a president trump there's a lot of, let's say inaccuracies and details. a lot of broad statement the registered democrat, who voted third party in 2020, said biden, he did not win him over either. did the debate alleviate any concerns that you might have had about his age? >> no. no, they be more confirmed. my concerns that alleviated danny freeman, cnn, scranton, pennsylvania quite notable to hear from those voters and president biden, hometown and kate hearing from that last schroeder, there not only did it not alleviate the concerns about about biden's age and capability underlying and italicize them and put them in bold font for voters who may be milled the road and don't know who the support in november for some of them did for some of them, you heard they had those concerns coming in and so i think we got to remember that a lot of the negatives for both of these candidates it's are baked in for a lot of these voters. >> and so over the course of the next four months, they're going to do get out on who can claim the sliver of those double haters who don't like both candidates to decide this election. but i think also, look president biden didn't have a great debate last night no bones about it. but i think in the discussion over the 24 hours, 36 hours on those announcement, 24, i guess since the debate, we also lost sight of the fact in the conversation that donald trump has enormous vulnerabilities and their voters who say that his tone last night was unacceptable. obviously, the substance of what he said about not accepting the outcome of the election, about defending the january 6, the people who, who, who committed january 6. those are things that don't win him over with the voters that he needs. and that's been lost a little bit in this 24 hours where everyone's been focused on joe biden that is going to re-emerge over the next four months. is this campaign plays out, but david oxide mitch landrieu was talking about how great president biden was today in north carolina, obviously, as we noted, the clare differences. but just to look at them side-by-side, it is also quite remarkable. look at this thank you. sure. that we're able to make every single solitary person eligible for what i've been able to do with the the covid. excuse me, with dealing with everything we have to do with look if we finally beat medicare when you get knocked down, you get back the taker are kind of in the depths of pandemic where it is today, the straw august economy in the world i mean it's completely, it's like nine day to see the differences there. >> it is. you know, when i saw that today reminded me of the 2012 the first debate for president obama, which didn't go well and one of the things that we stressed was we had an event schedule the next day. you gotta be pumped, you gotta be pumped and show life and so on. so this look very familiar to me, but it is we didn't have that problem. we didn't have he was 50-years-old. the problem wasn't he? with it? he was just buried in details, but this is different because it's very hard to mean they were different circumstances, but it's hard to recognize the guy we cited a in the guy we saw last night. last night was pretty consequential night. what i saw today and north carolina as a guy who's good for 15 minutes a day, if you tell them exactly what to say that's not what people are looking for in the president of the united states right now, there are real problems. >> no one by the way, most people don't believe we have the strongest economy in the world, even that message is off for most voters who are hurting badly and blamed his policies for it the next president has to be strong. that's what people believe and if you believe the president is only good for 15 minutes off of a teleprompter. they'll never going to interpret that as strength no matter how many times does i look, i agree on the strength versus weakness that's the sort of that is the pivot line in this campaign right? now. but i do believe that trump showed qualities last night that reminded people why they didn't like them in the first place. and so yes they may acknowledge his strong, but the point that we sought the president was going to drive that presumably he will drive for the duration of the campaign is who's he fighting for? is if fighting for years, he fighting for himself. and there is a predisposition to believe that trump fights for him and on the fever dreams from those who are the most panic tour saying you know, biden has to drop out. we have to have a new candidate on the ticket. obviously, you talked to how complicated that is in there's no guarantee of success. i mean, lyndon johnson did it and it cost his party the election and he did it earlier than president biden wouldn't be doing it. so the thing right now that i think is most important is for the democratic party to come i'm together around messaging and around a candidate, whether that be joe biden or whether it be someone else. if joe biden decides that he's going to step down and allow someone to take the place, the unity, the solidarity. that is what matters the most, because the part of what we're trying to tap into is not necessarily the swing voters or things like that but it's about, it's about manifesting turnout. who can generate the highest level of turnout, who can get these people that who were likely voters in the past, who can get them to the stage. and i think what we've seen in the past 1968, 19, 1984, these various years is that when they enthusiasm isn't there particularly united around a candidate that's when democrats lose johnson's vice president was the candidate and 68 and that was a problem for him because he carried some of the burdens of lyndon johnson. but that legacy, yeah, i don't think anyone, everyone feels bad for the voters at this point, leah, great to have you, everyone else is going to stick around because we are going to talk about donald trump and what he said today out on the campaign trail, declaring victory after he lied to reflected and simply did not answer a lot of the questions that were asked to them to him, at least not directly. we're going to speak with his former communications director, anthony scaramucci about that and more after a quick break they say seeing is believing, but with stearns and foster, that's only part of the story. we handcraft every stearns foster using the finest materials, like indulgent memory foam and ultra conforming and telecoil for a beautiful mattress and indescribable comfort. every single night shocked now and bring home incredible comfort during our july 4th sale and save $400 on select mattresses stearns and foster what comforting? 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well, let me just go back to what he said about the police. what do you say to voters who believe that you violated that oath through your actions and inaction on january 6, and worry that you'll do it again. why don't think too many believe? save that and let me tell you about january 6 on january 6, we had a great border. nobody coming through very few on january 6, we were energy independent and as nancy pelosi said, it was her responsibility, not mine. she said that loud and clear so did not say that it was not her responsibility as we have said many times, you're on this show. >> meantime, anthony scaramucci, trump's former white house communications director, is here with us tonight, who is also the author the new book from wall street to the white house. and back at and obviously, you the headline coming out of this anthony, was that biden did his performance did overshadow what? but trump just did there his own performance last night. i mean, it doesn't take away from the fact that he did lie. he downplayed january 6. he refused three times to accept the 2024 election results without his conditions that he attached to them. what did you make of trump's? performance last night well, he told a lie every 100 seconds, if you like, factored in everything, but the problem with trump's performance was the split screen and so whoever prepped president biden didn't explain to him that he had to be alert and look, right into the barrel of that camera and he looked very distracted. >> he looked a little off and so no matter what trump was saying i think most people were focused on the physical features of what was going on on the other side of the split screen. so yeah, look, trump is alive. look, trump's brand is that he's going to tell a lie every 100 seconds in my book, we counted 30,450 lives that's right out of the washington post. pinocchio alerts over four years. so he's going to lie. i mean, they the question now is joe biden is staying in the race. i get that so now, what is the going to be the positioning of joe biden and how are we going to prove to the american public? joe biden's up for this job over the next 450 million people watched last tonight. and if you're a voter who doesn't watch trump's rallies like we do closely, or constantly cover him. i mean, you don't know what's ally and what's truth or what's an exaggeration. and so you may be watching that and thinking, okay, well, i guess this is actually what happened on january 6. the officers did usher in the rioters, which obviously also is not true well, kaitlan, listen, remember, this is about image. >> this is not necessarily about substance this is a popularity contest. it's not a hiring decision for the american people if the call it the way it is. but my message to the biden campaign is donald trump on october the seventh 2016 was under the gun that was the night of the access hollywood tape release he had had an okay. first debate. birdie girded himself for that second debate. i think the message here is to be relentless and again, on the offense, as quickly as possible, he did a good job today, but he's got to build on that over the next coming weeks to let the american people know that he can do this job you're pointing out that 48 million people saw him having a hard time putting sentences together, saw him having a hard time rebutting. and then the last thing which was bothered me is the he couldn't complete the two minutes j kept saying to him, hey, you got at more seconds. here representing the say, yeah, that president biden now that and obviously you would see trump, whose mic was muted sitting there and its got jennings when you looked at that and you saw how trump was handling this him he didn't exactly cover himself in glory either last night, if you're watching it just from his perspective, i mean, they're counting, is it a win? but because they're grading it? a curve, essentially because of how president biden did. i mean, what's a when you get a policy that trump announced last night name, why he's not the president, he's the challenges president. i know. and he's running just like he wasn't 2016 against the de facto and come at this time, it's the real incumbent that's the beauty of being the challenger. you don't have to solve all the world's problems today. you just have to convince the american people that the incumbent is doing a bad job and they should fire him and higher, you know, i think they've decided to fire biden. it's obvious. have they quite decided to rehire trump yet? close, but maybe not yet, and he still has to close that deal. the problem with this debate is not donald trump, no one's going to remember a thing he said, they'll only remember what they saw of joe, but, you know, i was i was privy to some dial groups that went on last night. what was interesting was on the substance of things economic policy, health care, on abortion rights on a whole range of things biden did much better than trump. i mean, he people agreed with biden's point of view trump did very poorly any particularly poorly when he with his nastiest sides, he did particularly poorly when he claimed things that were passed emily untrue that everyone knows was this notion that he was playing the peacemaker role on january 6 was laughable. people understood that. so i think people paid more attention, scott than you think i agree. and it does still matter candidates lie. it does. i know we're in the trump era where it's sort of the received wisdom that it doesn't matter if the person who's running the present united states just openly lives. but i think as david said, we saw from some of the immediate data last night that's not true. and i think that's going to continue to be a problem for trump for the next seven months. i into joe biden, ever lie. he did not. he absolutely does not. donald trump willfully willfully joe biden never lie presents. he willfully goes out and misrepresents thanks. and is an intentionally with no shame whatsoever and people don't want to see that and their leadership at least we got to hear two people who want nuclear codes talk about their golf handicaps and it has a fatty any scaramucci, kate bedingfield, david axelrod, scott jennings. great to have all of you breaking down what so many people are still trying to process from last night i should know on the legal front, it is a nail-biting weekend for donald trump and for the special counsel, jack smith. that's what this is. supreme court is finally going to reveal its decision on presidential immunity on monday. but also the january 6 rioter ruling that came in today. how that could also impact trump's case in washington crap. now, we got to get france something. >> wait, we could use xi's gift mode. >> all right, done you. have, to do for now on x, why choose asleep numbers? 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>> the supreme course is court, is going to release its decision on one of the most consequential cases in american history on monday they and not only could it impact trump, but also the power of the presidency. another decision that came down today could also affect his ongoing legal cases, at least the one that's happening in washington. that's where those are the 6-3 decision where the justices ruled that the biden justice department overstepped when it filed obstruction charges against some of the january 46 rioters. my top legal sources here tonight with me, cnn legal analyst and criminal defense attorney joey jackson and retired new york state supreme court justice judge joe kahn visor. judge, first off, what do you think we're going to hear from the supreme court on monday? >> i think it is going to be landmark. i think you're absolutely right. i think this is a very big decision. you do know that both the district court and the court of appeals did not share defendant trump's position with respect to immunity. so he has said, i want the supreme court to look at this and say, i want solute amenity for any official act that occurred while i was in office. so the question will become, what is an official act and what what are they willing to do? they have options, right? they can send it back to say, what is an official act and go to the factfinder down in the district court. again, they can say you don't have absolute immunity you're they can say you do have absolute immunity, which judge chutkan said quite clearly isn't get out of jail free card forever. and that really can't be the law. yes, they do split the baby and say, well, you have it for this, but maybe not for that and it goes back to judge chutkan after this ruling comes out on monday. i mean, how how quickly could that be resolved? i mean, she's known that this is coming. she's looked at what's official act and what's not yeah, not quickly at all. >> is the answer, caitlin, right? here's why. so you have to look at this. i think in the context of not just trump, but in the context of a universe of presidents to come later. it is indeed a decision for the ages so when. you look at it, i tell you what i'm looking for. i'm looking for number one, us. laura is talk about bright-line rules. what does that mean? do they set a specific identifiable standard immunity? no immunity period. and that seems to be with chuck and has done right at the district court level, and it seems to be what the court of appeals has done to date, set a rule saying, you have no immunity. the second thing caitlin is really do you come up with some standard of tests and if you do, how do you police that? it becomes a slippery slope. you're going to have immunity in something's not immunity and others which leads to the next thing if you do that, it has to be the parcel singh up official versus unofficial acts. and that means you remanded back to the district court and they may further findings consistent with that. and so to your question coming full circle, it's going to take a while if they do that to bring it back to the district level and may consistent findings with respect to this is official. this is not a visual. this is not we'll see if they let's add one more layer of complication on that, which is the january 6 ruling that came down today about the rioters that they couldn't be charged with obstruction and some of these cases, i mean, that could affect what donald trump is charged with. specifically, it seemed to leave the door open for letting the special counsel, jack smith, continued those charges. but what do you make of it for the riders them? those judge, because we're already seeing trial courts in washington have to reopen some of these cases because maybe they were charged with three felonies and one of them was this. and now the supreme court is saying, well, they can't be charged with that. >> well, a couple of things. one is it's a big decision, but it's not quite as big as perhaps that we think so. some small small percentage a small percentage of these individuals are charged with just that that offense where the i think the prosecutor did a bit of a hail mary pass and said, we want to expand this and the courts are saying no, we're not going to let you do that. >> yeah, 128 or were, convicted of obstruction or another crime that's right. >> but or another one means that will still stand. so it's a good day for someone who was just charged with that obstruction charge. the other ones are going to stay yeah. >> i don't think as it relates to trump. look, i think prosecutors charged culpable conduct kaitlan in an english. that means if they think they could prove the charge against you, they'll charge that particular charge in terms of the obstruction. i think that in trump's case, i don't think it impacts it. there's a lot of reasons why we don't have time to talk about, but i just think that it affects the rioters case as it relates to donald trump. i don't think it has an outcome determinative effect that's an important distinction. we'll see how it plays out. joey jackson, judge joe combine are great to have you both here on a friday night. also, us figure that it's a gut punch for law enforcement defending the capitol on january six as trump is now back today calling for the release of rioters, or as he affectionately refers to them hostages. one of the officers who put his life on the line that de is going to join meet with his response next block the road trip. everyone comfortable, yet there's plenty of space hi gabi gun low, low, don't know with three rows and seating for seven. >> everyone wants her right okay. >> i gave him and see despicable me before and theaters july 3rd rated pg look cockroach resilient creatures, true miracles of evolution, where there is there's one, others aren't far behind, always scavenging for food. >> the cockroach will. >> now that's horrifying your favorite ortho home defense max, enduring sec barrier one application kills and prevents bugs were 365 days at my house you down nature's wild your home doesn't have to be introducing new advil targeted relief. the only topical pain reliever with four powerful pain fighting ingredients. that's start working on contact to target tough pain at the source for up to eight hours of powerful relief. new abdel targeted relief hi there. >> i'm an ad ever noticed how some ads just speak to sad the advertisers placed there as well. so people like you actually are streaming your favorite programs that's why they choose vi. it can make an impression so if you want the latest ai powered buying tools to execute and measure your connected tv campaigns on premium streaming inventory, choose wisely choose, phi f you have chronic kidney disease, you can reduce the risk of kidney failure with bars sega because there are places who'd like to be or circular can cause serious side effects, including ketoacidosis that may be fatal dehydration, urinary tract, or genital yeast infections then low blood sugar. >> a rare life-threatening bacterial infection in the skin of the perineum could occur, stopped taking four sika and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of disinfection and allergic luxurs made affordable i'm bill, we're on the california coast and this is cnn close captioning. he's brought to you by christian faith publishing, right? for a higher purpose, published with us christian faith publishing is an author friendly publisher who understands at your labor is more than just a book color scan for your freedom ryder's guide, 800 551827 we're telling you about that supreme court decision on january 6, rioters today, president biden was or president trump, i should note, was praising it on the campaign trail. >> and again, calling for the release all those who have been charged with crimes, the writers on january 6, or as donald trump affectionately refers to them as hostages all just 24 hours after he downplayed what happened on january 6 at the presidential debate. joining me tonight is a man who does not need that de deal play because he defended the capitol on jane you already six officer daniel hodges, and i should note, officer hodges, is still with the metropolitan police department. is speaking in his own capacity here on the source tonight, not on behalf of the department. and officer hodges, it's great to have you back again because this moment last night, the first thing i thought of was the officers who were there that day. and what you must think of what donald trump had to say about this last night for people who missed it. and that 90 minutes of debate, i just want to play exactly what that moment was. again, in addition to the speech i made in front of, i believe the largest crowd i've ever spoken to, and i will tell you, nobody ever talks about that. they talk about a relatively small number of people that went to the capitol. and in many cases were ushered in by the police is that how you would phrase it? >> assured in by the police? >> no, it is not how i would phrase it we fought them at every opportunity. we tried to repel them, gave them strong verbal commands telling him to leave and they refused to. our defenses. defensive tactics were ineffective they fought through are any anything we threw at them. they broke our police leinz and beat us, use all kinds of weaponry against us until they were able to force their way inside i mean, it's searing to watch the video, especially of you and i'm sorry to make you to relive it to show what again, i know it's incredibly painful, but but i think it's important for people to see what actually happened too, because it's caught on tape it and your screams can be heard. this is what happened to you on that day i mean when the former president, four years later is on a debate stage calling those people in defending them. what goes through your mind? >> it's absolutely incredible yeah, after january 6, i was really hopeful that the gop would finally take the off ramp from this trunk colt because they had the perfect opportunity and it seemed like that was what was gonna happen. but sadly, they've all bint the knee to their master because they're afraid of the political blowback of having integrity so now we have to listen to donald trump tried to whitewash to lie, to shift the blame, do whatever he can to make it so that he doesn't bear any responsibility for the attack the day when in fact, he bears quite a bit do you worry that people believe him when he says that it he blames nancy pelosi, he downplays what he did or did not do that day and there's a lot of people who they don't watch the news every day, or they're not paying super close detention, does it worry that people believe him oh, i know people believe them because they believe anything he says they believe him over their religious leaders, over doctors. they believe him in any realm of information, regardless of whether he has backed extremity expertise or not. so yeah, there's absolutely people who believe him and it's truly incredible to me that they do because he's just de lies constantly. it's just a firehose of leinz, like we saw last time the debate. it doesn't matter what he's talking about. he just pretends to know what he's talking about and says whatever benefits in the most yeah. >> officer daniel hodges, i mean, you can speak to it better than anyone else can. so thank you for joining tonight thank you for asking me i should note we were just talking with judge jill and joey about that important decision that is coming from the supreme court on monday, cnn is going to have special coverage of that immunity ruling.
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