that does it for me. "the reidout" with joy reid is up next. ♪♪ good evening. we are awaiting the start of president biden's news conference following his bilateral meeting today with chinese leader xi jinping. when it starts, we will bring it to you live. but we begin tonight with a wild day in court in fulton county, georgia, as we learned the source of the leaked confidential interviews between d.a. fani willis's office and key figures in her january 6th rico case. fulton county judge said he would issue a protective issue in the case barring disclosure of certain information from the discovery process. one that would allow some evidence from the pre-trial discovery process to be labeled sensitive and with held from public scrutiny. the videos obtained by abc news and "the washington post" showed interviews with witnesses, jenna ellis, sidney powell, scott hall, and with kenneth chesebro whose video was not released publicly. all have taken plea deals to flip on donald trump in the release prompted today's emergency hearing. at that hearing, there was a surprise confession from the source, jonathan miller. the attorney for one of donald trump's 18 other co-defendants. former coffee county election supervisor, misty hampton. >> in being transparent with the court, and to make sure that nobody else gets blamed for what happened and so that i can go to sleep well tonight, judge, i did release those videos to one outlet. and in all candor to the court, i need the court to know that. >> attorney mitchell's explanation was hiding the videos in his words mislead the public. it would help his client, saying that two of the defendants were directly related to my client. mitchell did not say who those two clients might be, but his client, misty hampton, is charged along with powell and hall in a scheme to access voting machines in coffee county. meanwhile, fani willis sought to revoke the bond of another of trump's co-defendants, harrison floyd, the former head of black voices of trump. citing a pattern of intimidation toward co-defendants and witnesses. noting that floyd engaged in numerous intentional and flagrant violations of his bond agreement. those violations include recent tweets tagging individuals like, georgia secretary of state brad raffensperger and former fulton county elections worker, ruby freeman. joining me now is barbara mcquaid, former u.s. attorney and law professor at the university of michigan. lisa ruben, msnbc legal analyst. thank you, ladies. lisa, i want to start with you because it strikes me that in this last case, the case of this attempt to revoke the bond of this defendant who was involved in the attempt to intimidate ruby freeman in the first place, harrison floyd, interesting that he is now looking at having his bond revoked and could wind up in jail. that is not something that donald trump has faced even though he, too, has intimidated witnesses. did that come up -- did his lawyers bring that up in this case? because it's interesting that he's doing what donald trump is doing but not facing the same, you know, freedom to move. >> so, joy, this motion was filed after today's hearing. and so, i'm not aware that anybody addressed what conduct donald trump has engaged in that might, for example, violate his own conditions of release vis-a-vis the other fulton county defendants and witnesses. that having been said, the fulton county d.a. lays out a number of acts over the last two weeks in particular between november 1st and november 14th where harrison floyd, as you noted, has gone after a number of his co-defendants or witnesses. in particular, really attacking jenna ellis. i'm looking at one of the tweets right now two days ago saying that she was lying on dan scavino and i guess they don't teach ethics at harvard law anymore. as an aside, jenna ellis did not go to harvard law school. but, the larger point is that harrison floyd has engaged in a two-week long campaign to intimidate and fight back against people involved in this case, ranging from brad raffensperger and sterling and ellis and powell. and finally the motion ends with a litany of his tweets, aimed squarely at ruby freeman, who is the person that he victimized in the first place, leading to the charges against him and who he continues to victimize and was publicly the most offensive conduct that he engaged in, according to da fani willis' team. i look forward to seeing how this motion is litigated, but this is just the opening salvo that we have here right now, joy. >> barb, can you comment on this. because the thing is that donald trump, the problem with his behavior is that it is infectious. that other people who are maga think they can do what he can do, but he was the former president of the united states. he's not a black guy who is the head of black voices for trump. this guy has already been jailed for his previous conduct that was violentish. and he was the one who was in jail, the only one who was actually jailed prior to his plea. he's now attacking the same person he's accused of intimidating, bullying her again, continuing to victimize her. it's a wonder he hasn't already been put back in jail. however, there's a discrepancy between the kind of bullying he can do. he probably doesn't have 25 million or however many followers that donald trump used to have on twitter or however many he has on truth social. trump can direct a mob at people. this guy can't. but can you just address the discrepancy in the sanctions that both of them face. it's obvious he's not the former president so he doesn't have secret service, but come on. >> yes. so, you know, in this case -- the georgia rico case, there's not currently any sort of gag order like the one we have seen in the federal election interference case or the one in new york. so, that's not what the concern is here. one of his bond conditions is that he not communicate about the case with any of his co-defendants or witnesses. and so i think this conduct directed toward ruby freeman is particularly problematic with that bond condition as we just heard from lisa, she was the direct victim. he tried to intimidate her and coerce her into confessing falsely that she had violated and committed fraud in the election when, of course, that wasn't true at all. and so, that sort of intimidation it goes to the heart of this case. so, i don't imagine that at the very first instance the judge's first instinct will be to cancel his bond and put him in jail. but i think it's important that the judge send a message that he takes these conditions very seriously. so i imagine we will see him in court with at least a warning and a second violation may land him in jail. and of course, as you point out, donald trump says all kinds of things about people, including about people who might be witnesses or might be co-defendants. and so it seems that it's fani willis who is giving him a slightly longer leash. and i imagine part of that is because, as a candidate for president in the future, judges are likely to be inclined to give him a little more leeway so that he can respond in the public arena to these charges against him. but, i think you raise a good point about treating like people alike and i think fani willis has to be careful not to be seen as holding herself to double standards. >> let's talk about donald trump, his team, moving for a mistrial. let me read some of what his proffer is trying to get a mistrial. so many cases it's hard to keep them straight at this point, lisa. i'll leave it to you to explain more. in this case the evidence of apparent and actual bias -- i think this is in his new york case. this is his new york case, lisa, which he's already lost. it's tangible and overwhelming, such evidence coupled with unprecedented departure from standard judicial procedure tainted these proceedings and a mistrial is warranted. can you -- well, let me add another thing. he's also gone after the law clerk saying this is the other piece of his proffer. saying the law clerk has no constitutional authority to act as a co-judge the impropriety of her participation is further magnified making partisan, political contributions in excess of strict limits including to organizations actively supporting attorney general james and opposing donald trump. can you talk about that just a little bit, lisa, this attempt to try to throw out a case that is already kind of decided. >> yeah. it's interesting, joy. to your point, when you say it's already kind of decided, this is something that i am trying to make clear to our viewers when ever i have an opportunity to comment on this case. the judge did decide that there has been a pervasive and year's long fraud engaged in by the trump organization and the five individual defendants with respect to how donald trump valued his assets. but there are six remaining claims here. that's why we're still having a trial that i have been attending fairly regularly. and each of those claims require proof of intent by the defendants. and that is why they are as contested as they are and they will take as long to try as they will. those claims are also important to the attorney general because the magnitude of the relief that she is fighting for will largely turn on how they are able to show intent by donald trump, his adult sons, allen weisselberg the former cfo, the former controller and then the organization as a whole. so the case is very much still alive. now to your question about the principal law clerk and the judge. the allegation that donald trump's lawyers are making is that this judge is functioning effectively as a co-judge and that nobody elected her. that she exchanges notes and constant whispers with judge arthur engoran that lead her to believe that she is exercising a level of authority that is inappropriate and on top of that because of her partisan political contributions and activities that she is already a person who has demonstrated a partisan prejudgment of donald trump before she ever walked in the room. i think that to the extent that they are able to show that her campaign contributions are problematic and are a violation of judicial ethics here in new york, that will not be a bases for a mistrial or overturning any later decision by judge engoran. it will likely be, if proven a basis for discipline. as you know, congressman elise stefanik has a pending complaint with the new york judicial ethic. there isn't a lot of proof that the conversations between the judge and his law clerk are, in fact, emblematic of bias. as barb knows well, just because you lose repeatedly in front of a judge doesn't mean that judge is biased. it might mean that you actually committed the conduct of which you've been accused and might be held liable in the future. >> yeah. okay. let's go back. read what attorney general james her response once again donald trump is trying to dismiss the truth and facts. donald trump is being held accountable for the incredible ways he lied to enrich himself and fact. that's attorney general james response. let me zigzag right back to georgia just for a second, barb. the georgia election workers who have been victimized in this case are now seeking -- ruby freeman, the aforementioned ruby freeman and shea moss her daughter, seeking 15 million and $40 million from rudy giuliani in a defamation suit slated to begin next month in washington, d.c. the fact that he's been liable for defamatory comments, it's similar to the new york case which the finding of fact is done and now it's a question of liability. what do you make of that? that starts in december. and this is just about the damages. can you explain how it can be that there's still a trial when all they're trying to figure out is damages. >> yes. so liability is one question. and then what's it worth is a separate question. and so the damages will go to their reputations. what kind of harm did they receive as a result of this? we heard their testimony before the house select committee on this about how their lives have been changed as a result of it. but that's what will be before a court in this case. so they have to put a dollar value on that. lost wages, if they stopped working because of this. pain and suffering, emotional damage, the inability to leave their homes. i expect this number to be well into the millions. but a judge will actually assess the value and provide an award to them. and both sides will certainly argue about what they think this case is worth. >> and then they'll have to see if they can try to collect from rudy giuliani, see how much money he has left. barbara mcquaid and lisa ruben, that's always the rub. thank you, ladies, very much. coming up next, we're awaiting the start of president biden's news conference following his bilateral meeting in california today with chinese president xi jinping. i have an amazing panel standing by to talk about that when "the reidout" 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>> congresswoman, as i said, i haven't seen the photos that you're holding up before. >> maybe -- well, i posted them on my twitter account. it's public. i don't know, maybe -- >> i don't spend a lot of time on twitter. >> well, you know -- oh, i'm sure you do because the department of homeland security organized with other offices has censored many americans including myself. >> i'm not part of the department of homeland security. >> can you confirm that the fbi had that sort of engagement with your own agents embedded within the crowd on january 6th? >> if you are asking whether the violence at the capitol on january 6th was part of some operation orchestrated by fbi sources and/or agents, the answer is emphatically not. >> you say no. >> no, not violent orchestrated by fbi sources or agents. >> are you familiar with -- you know what a ghost vehicle is? >> a reminder, your tax dollars pay their salaries. you're welcome. let's bring in my panel, halin ex cooper, ben rhodes, former deputy national security adviser, charles blow, columnist for "the new york times" and michael beschloss, nbc news presidential historian. thank you all for being here. i just want to go in reverse order and start with clay higgins and marjorie green, marjorie greene thinks the fbi director runs the homeland security department and has been missing with her twitter account and clay higgins, ben rhodes, who seems to believe it is wisdom to, as a united states congressperson, congressman, float the idea to the fbi director's face that the fbi orchestrated january 6th by trucking over fbi operatives to cause the violence that we saw. that to me is absolute madness, but i just want to just get you to comment on the fact that that happened today in a congressional hearing. >> yeah. it's a signal of the absolute absence of any bottom for these people. i think you saw reaction from director wray that he took it personally not just himself but frankly his entire agency, which has been consistently this target of conspiracy theory in all manner of bizarre accusations from members of congress. i think what's really telling about it, joy, is that these people, you know, there used to be a situation where people were elected to congress and they went and they represented their constituents and they worked on certain issues. these are people that are like living in a far right wing fever dream media ecosystem where they assume that normal human beings, including people that run very important large government agencies, are somehow aware of their bizarre conspiracy theories. because they spend all their time either in a media ecosystem or talking to other people who are familiar with intricacies of the conspiracy theories about marjorie taylor greene's twitter account or what some fbi source might have been doing on january 6th. and normal people have no idea what they're talking about, you know. so the fact that this is what they're doing, representing their constituents, this is what they're doing when they should be funding the government and keeping it open rather than, you know, hanging their newly-elected speaker out to dry to have to turn to democratic votes, multiple wars around the world, that could use congressional attention, instead they turn congress into just a forum for an extension of some far right wing media podcast or something where they're going to talk about conspiracy theories and insult people that work everyday to keep us safe. i think it just shows you how fundamentally unserious republican party is about governing or anything. >> it's not at a time that is not momentous. i want to play the testimony that christopher wray gave. i watched a good bit of this hearing. it was bizarre to one. one side democrats are asking questions about the rise in anti-semitism and anti-semitic violence and islamophoic violence and republicans doing that, who were doing that performance. and it was wild to sort of watch it happen in this committee. let me let you listen to christopher wray and he was talking about the actual real threats we face not to marjorie greene's twitter account. >> the greatest threat to the homeland is lone actors or small groups, typically radicalized online, using easily accessible weapons to attack soft targets. and that group of lone actors includes both, as you rightly say, domestic violent extremists as well as, though, that's the clarification, home grown violent extremists who are individual here