>> my view is that every baby should live. >> do you like being interviewed or do you find it a bit of a minefield? >> you know what, i enjoy it. >> tonight, joel and victoria osteen. >> it's great to be back with you. >> we're still praying for you. >> this is "piers morgan tonight." >> victoria, joel, welcome back. >> thanks, piers. >> seems like only yesterday you were gracing me with your presence. now, you're here because you've got this great new book, "every day a friday." how to be happy seven days a week. and i'm thinking to myself, you are the two happiest people i've ever met anyway. how can you possibly be any happier? >> i think we all can. if we learn what to ignore and certain battles not to fight, i think we can all be improving and growing and being happier. >> why fridays? because when i came to new york in particular, i was horrified that on fridays my staff all came in dressed like, you know, people on the street because it was apparently dress-down friday. and i was like, what does that mean? it apparently means you dress badly, wear jeans and old t-shirts and things. so to me i associate friday with this unkempt sort of misery. why have you selected friday as a day of great joy and happiness? >> well, piers, for most people the studies show people are happier on fridays. >> why? >> i think people are looking for the weekends, looking forward to it, getting to relax. you know, done with work. and i also read, piers, there's more heart attacks on monday than any other day. >> the stress of going back to work? >> yeah, the stress of -- >> isn't that because most people don't enjoy their jobs? what about you? i look forward to mondays. i don't really like fridays because everything sort of winds down. everything slows down. you're not really working as hard. i don't really like it. >> i'm 9 same way because of course we work weekends and i enjoy what we do. but you know, not everybody's like that. and the thought is in general, you've heard that, thank god it's friday. if we have the right perspectives we don't have to dread going to work, even if it's not the perfect job. when you have the right perspective and you think hey, i'm alive, i'm healthy, i've got a lot right in my life, you can enjoy each day. maybe not jumping up and down, but you can enjoy it. >> the theme of the book is very much that you make your own decisions about your life and your life will be happier. is it as simple as that? i mean, lots of people through circumstance are not really in the position to do much about their lot in life. i mean, it's an easy thing to say. and the critics will say, well, all right for you, joel, you're worth $100 million. what about the poor guy who's trapped in a factory job or something or maybe has no job who just through lack of opportunity and bad circumstance is unhappy because he can't get out of that? >> well, piers, to me faith is all about learning to be happy where you are. i mean, it doesn't take any faith to be happy when everything's going your way, when the economy's great, when you get good breaks. but you know, there are many people that are in a situation it seems like they're stuck. but my belief is if you put your trust in god you can have peace, you can be happy right where you are. i always say this. if you don't get happy right where you are you probably don't goat where you want to be because these are tests you have to pass as far as i'm concerned. you've got to pass those tests and say god, i'm at a job i don't like it or i have some medical problems but i'm going to be good to somebody, i'm going to put a smile on my face anyway. when you do that, to me you're releasing your faith and that's what allows god to change things. >> do you believe fundamentally that money can make people happier? victoria, you're shaking your head. why? >> well, i mean, it helps. it helps. but no, i've seen people who are very wealthy and they're unhappy. they don't have good relationships. they may even have bad health. >> i think i've met more unhappy rich people than poor people. and the reason i say, that i went to south africa. i went to the soweto townships. and millions of people living in complete poverty. some of the happiest people i've ever met. their spirits were just alive with happiness. and i couldn't really understand it. i still don't really understand it. but it was a fact. i saw it with my own eyes. why is that? you must have been to many of these places over the years. >> yeah. >> why can poverty-stricken people sometimes find joy in their lives? >> i think there's not so many distractions. i think they have their priorities where they love their family, they're with their family, they don't have a million things that are getting them off course, and they just take every day for what it is. just the simple things in life. getting up and enjoying family time and just not fighting a lot of the battles that we allow to steal our joy. >> does he ever get angry? >> angry? >> i mean, is he always this content, happy chap? >> angry, no. is he content? yes. i think he chooses it. i mean, there's things i'm sure that are stressful -- >> what really flips him out? what gets his goat? >> with, i don't really think he flips out. but he likes things to be right. and you know, i've watched him when things aren't right. and he chooses to see the best in the situation. he's always really great about finding what is right. you know, because a lost people have a tendency -- >> when is the last time you heard him shout, victoria? come on. you've never heard him shout? >> no. he's never shouted. >> he's never shouted? >> dp you live with me and you don't shout, you're pretty good. >> you're quite a live wire. i remember from our last interview. i would imagine you can be quite lively, right? >> well, you know, i like to keep things hopping. >> do you have a temper? >> do i have a temper? i've grown out of my temper living with him. i don't have a temper. >> so he really is this kind of bastion of calm? >> he's infectious. >> serenity? >> yeah. >> do you never shout at anybody? >> no. that's not my personality. a lot of it is just your personality. i've been like this my whole life. i don't. >> let me just clarify. you've never shouted in your life? >> well, i probably have. you know. >> when was the last time? >> i can't remember it. >> he doesn't shout. but he does have a look when he's aggravated. >> what's the look? >> it's like. >> that's when you know, it's blind fury? >> kids, let's go. >> what frustrates -- what can ruin your friday? >> you know, i don't know if it would ruin my friday. but like she said, i like things to be right. i like organization. i just -- you know, i expect excellence but not in the wrong sense, but i believe we're supposed to be excellent. so if we put things into place and people aren't doing their job, you know, there are some times you think, okay, come on, guys, let's get going. but you know, i choose to believe -- you know, to use that energy to make things right and not just to yell at people or anything like that. it's just not who -- >> do you guys ever fight? >> i never have. >> never? even when you were a kid? >> maybe with my brother. >> that doesn't count. brothers deserve it. >> you would wrestle with your brothers. but not a fistfight. >> have you ever been punched in the face? >> no. >> never? >> no. >> incredible life you've had. >> have you been punched in the face? >> yes. >> yeah? . >> yeah. many times. i think it's part of life's rich tapestry. but then i meet someone like you and i think i've missed out. on a life of total serenity. >> the scripture calls it fighting the good fight of faith. and that's when you know god's in control. i used to get frustrated when things weren't happening the way i wanted to or you know, what i had everything worked out and my plans didn't go the way i wanted to. but now i've learned to say god, here's my plans for today, i'm going to do my best, if it doesn't work out i believe you're in control, that you're opening the right doors. and what we don't hear a lot is sometimes god closes a door on purpose. and i used to think, oh, god, that was a good opportunity-y didn't that work out? but i've learned now just to trust. god knows what's best for each one of us. >> we had the tenth anniversary of 9/11 recently. it was extraordinary being in america. i was in new york soon after it happened. i came back for the anniversary and so on. it's very hard to tell god-fearing people who've prayed all their lives, it's very hard to tell them if they lost relatives in that kind of thing that there is a merciful god. i mean, they all when i interview them, many of them, particularly if they're devout christians or muslims or all denominations who perished on that day. what do you say to them? how do you explain that a just god can allow these kind of atrocities to happen? ruining so many lives. >> you know, it's difficult, piers, but the world we live in is not a perfect world. we're living in a fallen world. and you know, to simplify it, god's given us all our free choice. we can do what we want to do. and unfortunately, some people choose to do evil. i mean, god didn't make us as robots. and you know, it's hard to explain. because god is good. obviously, god could have stopped it. but he didn't. but there's much about faith that i don't understand. and i think -- >> does your faith ever get dented? >> you know, it really -- >> it always sounds very unequivocal. and i watch you on sunday mornings. and it's fantastic to watch. you're an incredibly inspiring speaker. but i wonder. i've had relatives who, for example, renounced their catholic belief and their faith in god after the holocaust, who lived through the war who just couldn't understand how any god could allow 5 million jews to be -- have their lives take nen such a ghastly manner. and it's hard to argue. i find it difficult. so what do you say to people who might come to you and say i can't continue having this faith because some appalling thing has happened? >> you know what? that happens from time to time. but again, i go back to the fact that you know what, having faith means you're going to have unanswered questions. that's what faith is all about. i can't explain why parents will come to me and their little child has cancer. i can't -- i still believe god -- >> what do you say to them? >> what i say is this. god's got you in the palm of his hand. none of this is a surprise to god. you may be hurting. our hearts break with you. but we're going to pray for you and god's going to give you a strength you've never felt before. and if you turn to god and your faith and you don't get bitter and give up on god and everything everybody else and give up on your dreams, i believe somehow, some way god can bring good out of it, he can give you a new beginning. i know you'll never get your loved one back but god can make the rest of your life very fulfilling if you -- >> victoria, have you ever had your faith dented? >> well, no. i never have. you know, it's like what joel is saying. a lot of times we don't -- we want to see everything happen. but god's a supernatural god. and he can bring grace and comfort into your life just by a state of peace and joy, even -- >> have you had moments, for example, when something bad's happened in your life or something that's really affected you badly and you prayed to god to have that situation end in a happy way and then it hasn't, so your prayers haven't been answered? in that circumstance do you not feel slightly let down? >> well, you know what? i can't tell god what to do. i can ask god what to do. i can ask him to do things for me. but i know in my core that he's got my best interests at heart. and it may not look good, but somehow some good can come out of it. and you know, you can't bring people back. you can't bring things maybe that you've lost back sometimes. but god has a way of somehow getting you out of yourself and into a new place in your life. >> let's take a little break and come back and talk to you about executions, which is a burning issue right now. many people believing that america should now join most of the rest of the world and abandon executions. that's why i recommend crest pro-health clinical gum protection. it helps eliminate plaque at the gum line, helping prevent gingivitis. it's even clinically proven to help reverse it in just 4 weeks. crest pro-health clinical gum protection. your new progresso rich & hearty steak burger soup. 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[ female announcer ] we all age differently. roc® multi-correxion 4 zone moisturizer with roc®retinol and antioxidants. lines, wrinkles, and sun damage will fade. roc multi-correxion. correct what ages you. i can do what he says i can do. today i will be taught the word of god. i boldly confess my mind is alert, my heart is receptive, i will never be the same. >> i'm back with joel and victoria osteen. do you ever watch yourself back on tv? >> i do. i still edit my sermons. >> do you? >> i edit with somebody now. but i did that 17 years for my dad. so after i speak my sermon on sundays, i like to edit it because i know where i messed up and how i can do better. you know how you do with editing now. >> i watch you. it is almost always word perfect. you have an extraordinary style. how have you developed that? >> well, my mother has had a great memory. and when i started, my dad just spoke extemporaneously and just would go. i couldn't do that. i had to write down what i would say. i go over it two or three hours a couple days before, and i get it so much in me that it can come out pretty good now. >> huge pressure because you have so many people tuning in for these sermons. you can't get them wrong, can you? every word gets analyzed. >> you do. it makes me very responsible in what i'm going to say because people are going to -- you know, some people are making decisions based off of what you're saying. you have to say, okay, how is this coming across? this is the way i mean it, but is it coming across that way? so i try to think through it a lot. >> there was a recent survey i found fascinating. "new york times" named you one of the most influential figures in the world on twitter. you beat people like lady gaga, justin bieber, rachel maddow, arianna huffington. some of the big tweeters themselves. because they deemed that your influence which they assessed by the number of your tweets that were retweeted actually exceeded all of them. that shows you you've got proper influence and i would say power. >> well, i felt very honored when i heard that. but we found, piers, people come to us for inspiration for those little quotes. so we try to stay really focused on what can i speak to people that will help improve their day? my tweets are not about what i did that day. it's always about something that they can use. i think when you give people good material they like to pass it on because the fact is there's a lot pushing us down these days. there's a lot of negativity. so when you tell somebody go out and be good to somebody today, make somebody else's day and god will make your own day, you give them small tidbits like that, that resonates. >> one of the key things in the book is forgiveness of sins is one of the central tenets of christianity in many ways. i know you're by nature a very forgiving man. i've watched you do these sermons and interviewed you before about this. what is your view of state executions? the troy davis thing which happened recently where by common consent there was enough doubt that that man could not be 100% said to have committed the crime, and certainly no dna evidence. what do you think of the whole issue? >> you know, it's a complicated issue, piers. i haven't thought a whole lot about it. but of course, i'm for second chances and mercy. yet the flip side is there's consequences for what we've done. and so i don't know what my total stance is because i'm so full of -- >> a life for a life? >> well, i don't know that that's -- you know, it's hard -- >> i don't think you can say that. and i've had this debate with you before about these things. you can't be the man who influences millions of people and sit on the fence about key moral issues like that. key moral stroke ethical issues. you've got to have a view, haven't you? >> well, i think the thing is we have a justice system and i believe in our system of justice, number one. part of me, the human part of me, the merciful part of me is, wow, let's just give everybody a chance and if there is any -- it's hard for me to say, yeah, let's kill this person because he's so bad. they can be redeemed. they can be forgiven, yet they may still have to be put to death. that's hard for me. i don't know what's the right thing. there's people smarter than me that make all the laws. i do stand by our -- >> two-thirds of all executions in america are taking place in five states, most of them southern states near where you're from including texas. texas is well known to be -- in fact may even be the highest in terms of executions for any state in america. so i guess the part of your issue, unless i'm wrong, is that a lot of your brethren that come to watch you presumably would support the death penalty? >> sure, i think so. i don't know for a fact, but i think many people do. and, you know, i just again, i don't know the right answer. it's hard for me to tell someone to be put to death. >> but if you came out particularly in somewhere like texas, you joel osteen came out and said, enough, i don't think we can continue with this, particularly based on the facts. joel, my problem with the whole death penalty debate are the statistics these days are alarming. over 100 people in america on death row have had their sentences commuted because of new evidence. 17 of them because dna evidence proved they didn't commit the crime. when you hear that, surely you begin to think that this isn't right. and you have a lot of influence in your state. people will be watching this thinking, well, what does he think? is he in favor of state killings or is he actually against it? because they might take their lead from you. >> well, piers, i don't know that i'm the one to give the final answer on that. >> you're the perfect guy to ask. >> yes, piers, because i'm not studied on it and i stay focused on what i feel like i'm called to do. i'm careful about -- it's a more complicated issue than that, than to just throw that issue out there and create a lot of waves. so that's probably the reason i just -- >> if i asked you about abortion, what would you say? >> well, abortion i feel stronger about because i feel like -- >> what's your view? >> my view is that every baby should live. that god's created that life. and so, again, that's what i feel strongly -- >> there's a contradiction between the sanctity of life with an abortion and the sanctity of life for somebody who may or may not have committed a crime. >> sure. >> should there not be a more consistent view? >> well, i think there could be when you say may or may not. that's the troublesome thing, if we don't know for sure. >> how can you know for sure really? very few cases are completely clear cut. and really it comes down just to a general principle, whether in a modern civil sized society, especially in a country with many, many people -- millions, tens of millions go to church every sunday. they kind of look to religious leaders to say what should we be thinking? they'll all be a bit confused. so you know, i know i do this to you when you come on. but i sort of feel like you need to be more definitive. >> yeah. well, if i could, i