Transcripts For CNNW Piers Morgan Tonight 20111127

>> my view is that every baby should live. >> do you like being interviewed or do you find it a bit of a minefield? >> you know what, i enjoy it. >> tonight, joel and victoria osteen. >> it's great to be back with you. >> we're still praying for you. >> this is "piers morgan tonight." >> victoria, joel, welcome back. >> thanks, piers. >> seems like only yesterday you were gracing me with your presence. now, you're here because you've got this great new book, "every day a friday." how to be happy seven days a week. and i'm thinking to myself, you are the two happiest people i've ever met anyway. how can you possibly be any happier? >> i think we all can. if we learn what to ignore and certain battles not to fight, i think we can all be improving and growing and being happier. >> why fridays? because when i came to new york in particular, i was horrified that on fridays my staff all came in dressed like, you know, people on the street because it was apparently dress-down friday. and i was like, what does that mean? it apparently means you dress badly, wear jeans and old t-shirts and things. so to me i associate friday with this unkempt sort of misery. why have you selected friday as a day of great joy and happiness? >> well, piers, for most people the studies show people are happier on fridays. >> why? >> i think people are looking for the weekends, looking forward to it, getting to relax. you know, done with work. and i also read, piers, there's more heart attacks on monday than any other day. >> the stress of going back to work? >> yeah, the stress of -- >> isn't that because most people don't enjoy their jobs? what about you? i look forward to mondays. i don't really like fridays because everything sort of winds down. everything slows down. you're not really working as hard. i don't really like it. >> i'm 9 same way because of course we work weekends and i enjoy what we do. but you know, not everybody's like that. and the thought is in general, you've heard that, thank god it's friday. if we have the right perspectives we don't have to dread going to work, even if it's not the perfect job. when you have the right perspective and you think hey, i'm alive, i'm healthy, i've got a lot right in my life, you can enjoy each day. maybe not jumping up and down, but you can enjoy it. >> the theme of the book is very much that you make your own decisions about your life and your life will be happier. is it as simple as that? i mean, lots of people through circumstance are not really in the position to do much about their lot in life. i mean, it's an easy thing to say. and the critics will say, well, all right for you, joel, you're worth $100 million. what about the poor guy who's trapped in a factory job or something or maybe has no job who just through lack of opportunity and bad circumstance is unhappy because he can't get out of that? >> well, piers, to me faith is all about learning to be happy where you are. i mean, it doesn't take any faith to be happy when everything's going your way, when the economy's great, when you get good breaks. but you know, there are many people that are in a situation it seems like they're stuck. but my belief is if you put your trust in god you can have peace, you can be happy right where you are. i always say this. if you don't get happy right where you are you probably don't goat where you want to be because these are tests you have to pass as far as i'm concerned. you've got to pass those tests and say god, i'm at a job i don't like it or i have some medical problems but i'm going to be good to somebody, i'm going to put a smile on my face anyway. when you do that, to me you're releasing your faith and that's what allows god to change things. >> do you believe fundamentally that money can make people happier? victoria, you're shaking your head. why? >> well, i mean, it helps. it helps. but no, i've seen people who are very wealthy and they're unhappy. they don't have good relationships. they may even have bad health. >> i think i've met more unhappy rich people than poor people. and the reason i say, that i went to south africa. i went to the soweto townships. and millions of people living in complete poverty. some of the happiest people i've ever met. their spirits were just alive with happiness. and i couldn't really understand it. i still don't really understand it. but it was a fact. i saw it with my own eyes. why is that? you must have been to many of these places over the years. >> yeah. >> why can poverty-stricken people sometimes find joy in their lives? >> i think there's not so many distractions. i think they have their priorities where they love their family, they're with their family, they don't have a million things that are getting them off course, and they just take every day for what it is. just the simple things in life. getting up and enjoying family time and just not fighting a lot of the battles that we allow to steal our joy. >> does he ever get angry? >> angry? >> i mean, is he always this content, happy chap? >> angry, no. is he content? yes. i think he chooses it. i mean, there's things i'm sure that are stressful -- >> what really flips him out? what gets his goat? >> with, i don't really think he flips out. but he likes things to be right. and you know, i've watched him when things aren't right. and he chooses to see the best in the situation. he's always really great about finding what is right. you know, because a lost people have a tendency -- >> when is the last time you heard him shout, victoria? come on. you've never heard him shout? >> no. he's never shouted. >> he's never shouted? >> dp you live with me and you don't shout, you're pretty good. >> you're quite a live wire. i remember from our last interview. i would imagine you can be quite lively, right? >> well, you know, i like to keep things hopping. >> do you have a temper? >> do i have a temper? i've grown out of my temper living with him. i don't have a temper. >> so he really is this kind of bastion of calm? >> he's infectious. >> serenity? >> yeah. >> do you never shout at anybody? >> no. that's not my personality. a lot of it is just your personality. i've been like this my whole life. i don't. >> let me just clarify. you've never shouted in your life? >> well, i probably have. you know. >> when was the last time? >> i can't remember it. >> he doesn't shout. but he does have a look when he's aggravated. >> what's the look? >> it's like. >> that's when you know, it's blind fury? >> kids, let's go. >> what frustrates -- what can ruin your friday? >> you know, i don't know if it would ruin my friday. but like she said, i like things to be right. i like organization. i just -- you know, i expect excellence but not in the wrong sense, but i believe we're supposed to be excellent. so if we put things into place and people aren't doing their job, you know, there are some times you think, okay, come on, guys, let's get going. but you know, i choose to believe -- you know, to use that energy to make things right and not just to yell at people or anything like that. it's just not who -- >> do you guys ever fight? >> i never have. >> never? even when you were a kid? >> maybe with my brother. >> that doesn't count. brothers deserve it. >> you would wrestle with your brothers. but not a fistfight. >> have you ever been punched in the face? >> no. >> never? >> no. >> incredible life you've had. >> have you been punched in the face? >> yes. >> yeah? . >> yeah. many times. i think it's part of life's rich tapestry. but then i meet someone like you and i think i've missed out. on a life of total serenity. >> the scripture calls it fighting the good fight of faith. and that's when you know god's in control. i used to get frustrated when things weren't happening the way i wanted to or you know, what i had everything worked out and my plans didn't go the way i wanted to. but now i've learned to say god, here's my plans for today, i'm going to do my best, if it doesn't work out i believe you're in control, that you're opening the right doors. and what we don't hear a lot is sometimes god closes a door on purpose. and i used to think, oh, god, that was a good opportunity-y didn't that work out? but i've learned now just to trust. god knows what's best for each one of us. >> we had the tenth anniversary of 9/11 recently. it was extraordinary being in america. i was in new york soon after it happened. i came back for the anniversary and so on. it's very hard to tell god-fearing people who've prayed all their lives, it's very hard to tell them if they lost relatives in that kind of thing that there is a merciful god. i mean, they all when i interview them, many of them, particularly if they're devout christians or muslims or all denominations who perished on that day. what do you say to them? how do you explain that a just god can allow these kind of atrocities to happen? ruining so many lives. >> you know, it's difficult, piers, but the world we live in is not a perfect world. we're living in a fallen world. and you know, to simplify it, god's given us all our free choice. we can do what we want to do. and unfortunately, some people choose to do evil. i mean, god didn't make us as robots. and you know, it's hard to explain. because god is good. obviously, god could have stopped it. but he didn't. but there's much about faith that i don't understand. and i think -- >> does your faith ever get dented? >> you know, it really -- >> it always sounds very unequivocal. and i watch you on sunday mornings. and it's fantastic to watch. you're an incredibly inspiring speaker. but i wonder. i've had relatives who, for example, renounced their catholic belief and their faith in god after the holocaust, who lived through the war who just couldn't understand how any god could allow 5 million jews to be -- have their lives take nen such a ghastly manner. and it's hard to argue. i find it difficult. so what do you say to people who might come to you and say i can't continue having this faith because some appalling thing has happened? >> you know what? that happens from time to time. but again, i go back to the fact that you know what, having faith means you're going to have unanswered questions. that's what faith is all about. i can't explain why parents will come to me and their little child has cancer. i can't -- i still believe god -- >> what do you say to them? >> what i say is this. god's got you in the palm of his hand. none of this is a surprise to god. you may be hurting. our hearts break with you. but we're going to pray for you and god's going to give you a strength you've never felt before. and if you turn to god and your faith and you don't get bitter and give up on god and everything everybody else and give up on your dreams, i believe somehow, some way god can bring good out of it, he can give you a new beginning. i know you'll never get your loved one back but god can make the rest of your life very fulfilling if you -- >> victoria, have you ever had your faith dented? >> well, no. i never have. you know, it's like what joel is saying. a lot of times we don't -- we want to see everything happen. but god's a supernatural god. and he can bring grace and comfort into your life just by a state of peace and joy, even -- >> have you had moments, for example, when something bad's happened in your life or something that's really affected you badly and you prayed to god to have that situation end in a happy way and then it hasn't, so your prayers haven't been answered? in that circumstance do you not feel slightly let down? >> well, you know what? i can't tell god what to do. i can ask god what to do. i can ask him to do things for me. but i know in my core that he's got my best interests at heart. and it may not look good, but somehow some good can come out of it. and you know, you can't bring people back. you can't bring things maybe that you've lost back sometimes. but god has a way of somehow getting you out of yourself and into a new place in your life. >> let's take a little break and come back and talk to you about executions, which is a burning issue right now. many people believing that america should now join most of the rest of the world and abandon executions. that's why i recommend crest pro-health clinical gum protection. it helps eliminate plaque at the gum line, helping prevent gingivitis. it's even clinically proven to help reverse it in just 4 weeks. crest pro-health clinical gum protection. your new progresso rich & hearty steak burger soup. 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[ female announcer ] we all age differently. roc® multi-correxion 4 zone moisturizer with roc®retinol and antioxidants. lines, wrinkles, and sun damage will fade. roc multi-correxion. correct what ages you. i can do what he says i can do. today i will be taught the word of god. i boldly confess my mind is alert, my heart is receptive, i will never be the same. >> i'm back with joel and victoria osteen. do you ever watch yourself back on tv? >> i do. i still edit my sermons. >> do you? >> i edit with somebody now. but i did that 17 years for my dad. so after i speak my sermon on sundays, i like to edit it because i know where i messed up and how i can do better. you know how you do with editing now. >> i watch you. it is almost always word perfect. you have an extraordinary style. how have you developed that? >> well, my mother has had a great memory. and when i started, my dad just spoke extemporaneously and just would go. i couldn't do that. i had to write down what i would say. i go over it two or three hours a couple days before, and i get it so much in me that it can come out pretty good now. >> huge pressure because you have so many people tuning in for these sermons. you can't get them wrong, can you? every word gets analyzed. >> you do. it makes me very responsible in what i'm going to say because people are going to -- you know, some people are making decisions based off of what you're saying. you have to say, okay, how is this coming across? this is the way i mean it, but is it coming across that way? so i try to think through it a lot. >> there was a recent survey i found fascinating. "new york times" named you one of the most influential figures in the world on twitter. you beat people like lady gaga, justin bieber, rachel maddow, arianna huffington. some of the big tweeters themselves. because they deemed that your influence which they assessed by the number of your tweets that were retweeted actually exceeded all of them. that shows you you've got proper influence and i would say power. >> well, i felt very honored when i heard that. but we found, piers, people come to us for inspiration for those little quotes. so we try to stay really focused on what can i speak to people that will help improve their day? my tweets are not about what i did that day. it's always about something that they can use. i think when you give people good material they like to pass it on because the fact is there's a lot pushing us down these days. there's a lot of negativity. so when you tell somebody go out and be good to somebody today, make somebody else's day and god will make your own day, you give them small tidbits like that, that resonates. >> one of the key things in the book is forgiveness of sins is one of the central tenets of christianity in many ways. i know you're by nature a very forgiving man. i've watched you do these sermons and interviewed you before about this. what is your view of state executions? the troy davis thing which happened recently where by common consent there was enough doubt that that man could not be 100% said to have committed the crime, and certainly no dna evidence. what do you think of the whole issue? >> you know, it's a complicated issue, piers. i haven't thought a whole lot about it. but of course, i'm for second chances and mercy. yet the flip side is there's consequences for what we've done. and so i don't know what my total stance is because i'm so full of -- >> a life for a life? >> well, i don't know that that's -- you know, it's hard -- >> i don't think you can say that. and i've had this debate with you before about these things. you can't be the man who influences millions of people and sit on the fence about key moral issues like that. key moral stroke ethical issues. you've got to have a view, haven't you? >> well, i think the thing is we have a justice system and i believe in our system of justice, number one. part of me, the human part of me, the merciful part of me is, wow, let's just give everybody a chance and if there is any -- it's hard for me to say, yeah, let's kill this person because he's so bad. they can be redeemed. they can be forgiven, yet they may still have to be put to death. that's hard for me. i don't know what's the right thing. there's people smarter than me that make all the laws. i do stand by our -- >> two-thirds of all executions in america are taking place in five states, most of them southern states near where you're from including texas. texas is well known to be -- in fact may even be the highest in terms of executions for any state in america. so i guess the part of your issue, unless i'm wrong, is that a lot of your brethren that come to watch you presumably would support the death penalty? >> sure, i think so. i don't know for a fact, but i think many people do. and, you know, i just again, i don't know the right answer. it's hard for me to tell someone to be put to death. >> but if you came out particularly in somewhere like texas, you joel osteen came out and said, enough, i don't think we can continue with this, particularly based on the facts. joel, my problem with the whole death penalty debate are the statistics these days are alarming. over 100 people in america on death row have had their sentences commuted because of new evidence. 17 of them because dna evidence proved they didn't commit the crime. when you hear that, surely you begin to think that this isn't right. and you have a lot of influence in your state. people will be watching this thinking, well, what does he think? is he in favor of state killings or is he actually against it? because they might take their lead from you. >> well, piers, i don't know that i'm the one to give the final answer on that. >> you're the perfect guy to ask. >> yes, piers, because i'm not studied on it and i stay focused on what i feel like i'm called to do. i'm careful about -- it's a more complicated issue than that, than to just throw that issue out there and create a lot of waves. so that's probably the reason i just -- >> if i asked you about abortion, what would you say? >> well, abortion i feel stronger about because i feel like -- >> what's your view? >> my view is that every baby should live. that god's created that life. and so, again, that's what i feel strongly -- >> there's a contradiction between the sanctity of life with an abortion and the sanctity of life for somebody who may or may not have committed a crime. >> sure. >> should there not be a more consistent view? >> well, i think there could be when you say may or may not. that's the troublesome thing, if we don't know for sure. >> how can you know for sure really? very few cases are completely clear cut. and really it comes down just to a general principle, whether in a modern civil sized society, especially in a country with many, many people -- millions, tens of millions go to church every sunday. they kind of look to religious leaders to say what should we be thinking? they'll all be a bit confused. so you know, i know i do this to you when you come on. but i sort of feel like you need to be more definitive. >> yeah. well, if i could, i would. but let me study it and i'll come back with a great answer someday for you. >> let's have a little break and i'll come back and pin you to the floor on another issue where i tried to pin you on the floor before and see whether your views have changed about homosexuality in light of the fact that we now have five states in america who support same-sex marriage. congratulations. congratulations. congratulations. today, the city of charlotte can use verizon technology to inspire businesses to conserve energy and monitor costs. making communities greener... congratulations. ... and buildings as valuable to the bottom line... whoa ! ... as the people inside them. congratulations. because when you add verizon to your company, you don't just add, you multiply. ♪ discover something new... verizon. when you're a sports photographer, things can get out of control pretty quickly. so i like control in the rest of my life... especially my finances. that's why i have slate, with blueprint. i can make a plan to pay off big stuff faster... or avoid interest on everyday things. that saves me money. with slate from chase, i'm always in control. financially, anyway. get slate with blueprint and save money. call 855-get-slate today. it's good. honey, i love you... oh my gosh, oh my gosh.. look at these big pieces of potato. ♪ what's that? 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[ femala $100 cream. we were flattered when regenerist beat flabbergasted when we creamed a $500 cream. for about $30 regenerist micro-sculpting cream hydrates better than over 20 of america's most expensive luxury creams. fantastic. phenomenal. regenerist. back with my guests the osteens. another rather contentious issue, joel, because last time you came on this show, the pair of you, and you were excellent guests, this happened. i want to talk about this after because it made a few headlines. >> is homosexuality a sin in your eyes? >> yes. i've always believed, piers, the scripture shows it's a sin. but i'm not one of those that are out there to bash homosexuals and tell them that they're terrible people and all that. >> so i suppose the obvious question is we did that back in january. has your position changed at all after that? because it raised a lot of headlines, a lot of controversy. since then more states have endorsed same-sex marriage. it's becoming much less of a prohibitive kind of issue than it used to be. what's your view now? >> you know, piers, it really never changes because mine's based out of the scripture. that's what i believe that the scripture says, that homosexuality is a sin. i believed it before and i still believe it now. again, i would just reiterate what i said. i'm not mad at anybody, i don't dislike anybody. but you know, respecting my faith and believing, you know, in what the scripture says, that's the best way i can interpret it. >> but shouldn't the scripture be dragged kicking and screaming into the modern age? we were talking before the break about the issue of eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth. not everything in the scriptures really is in my view conducive to modern life. i mean, like everything else, doesn't it have to move with the times? and isn't it down, again, to people like you to interpret it in a way that evolves? you're known as a very progressive preacher. >> sure. well, i want to be progressive. but sometimes when i read it i can't see how you would change that. just like you wouldn't change some other main things in the scripture. i don't see how that -- if you don't have a basis of truth -- and that's what i base mine off of. the scripture. everybody else doesn't and i don't fault them if they don't. this is the way i choose to lead my life and what i teach based out of the scripture. i think personally 200 years from now the scripture's still going to say that. >> yes, but the law of the land may not and it may not in your state. and the law of the land is changing fast. and your argument about executions was, well, it's the law of the land in somewhere like texas. what if texas eventually -- at moment it's an unlikely place i'd imagine to bring this in. but it may change with enough pressure. texas brings in a law that same-sex marriage is permissible. how would you feel then if it's the law of the land? >> well, you know, i'm going to respect the law and i'm going to respect gay people like i do now. you know, we have plenty of people that come to our church and friends i would call that are gay. so i'm going to respect that. i think where it puts a difficult situation is me being a christian pastor, believing in the scripture, it would be against my faith to marry two gay people. >> you could never do that? >> no. is it would be against what i believe the scripture teaches. so that's where i think the rub comes in of people like myself. it's not that i'm against anybody. or you know, if people want to live together, that's up to them. but my faith, when we say marriage -- i mean, i think about, piers, all through the bible there's hundreds of marriages but none of them are shown as between, you know, the same sex. and again, i'm not against anything. but i just believe that's what the bible teaches. and that's how we've chosen -- >> don't you feel a bit uneasy that the last person i heard speaking like this was mahmoud ahmadinejad, who's the president of iran who says there are no gay people in iran and it's a terrible sin and curse. victoria, what do you think of all this, the gay marriage debate? could you ever imagine attending a gay marriage between two people who come to your church, for example, if they invited you? >> i think if it was that easy, then we would have figured it out by now. but it's been overthrown. states go for it and then they overthrow it -- >> but accepting an invitation is easy. so would you accept one or not? >> would i accept one? >> two gay people who attend your church invite you to their wedding? >> sure, i would go. >> you would? >> well, if i had time i would. >> joel? >> if they were friends of mine and i respect them, i would certainly go. >> you would watch two people you think are sinners committing the ultimate sin? >> well, i'm looking at it -- i don't think it's the ultimate sin. but i'm looking at it from another point of view of respect to that person. and you know, it gets convoluted. but i'm looking at it as respect to that person. >> could you in your position actually actively encourage people to go through a same-sex marriage? could you be seen to -- could you be photographed at such an event? >> well, i would not -- >> would that not cause you problems? >> well, you know, it's such a hypothetical. i'm talking -- >> well, not really. because you said lots of gay people go to your church. so it might happen. >> well, i haven't been to any weddings lately to begin with, but i'm talking about somebody that was, you know, dear to us. i'm not going to disrespect somebody that's dear to us and say, you know what? you're not good enough for us or something like that. that's the way i would see it. now, i'm not going to just run off and go attend, you know, certain marriages just to make a statement because that's not who i am and that's not what i stand for. and again, i don't look down on those people. >> another break. let's talk a little more about politics. i know it's a bit of a minefield for you. i'm curious what you think of all the republican runners and writers at the moment, who's been catching your eye as potentially a leader for america. progresso. it fits! fantastic! 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[ male announcer ] progresso. 40 soups 100 calories or less. who need okay is there a woman i can talk to? imagine... one scooter or power chair that could improve your mobility and your life. one medicare benefit that, with private insurance, may entitle you to pay little to nothing to own it. one company that can make it all happen ... your power chair will be paid in full. the scooter store. hi i'm doug harrison. we're experts at getting you the power chair or scooter you need. i didn't pay a penny out of pocket for my power chair. with help from the scooter store, medicare and my insurance covered it all. call the scooter store for free information today. back with joel and victoria osteen. let's talk politics for a moment, joel, because i know this is a bit -- az said before the break, a bit of a minefield. but of all the republican runners and riders in the race so far to be the nominee, who do you think is the most impressive leader potentially that you've seen? >> piers, they all look like great leaders to me. >> that's a terrible answer. >> i can't pick out one. governor perry is the governor of texas, a friend of ours. i've never met -- a great governor. great friend of the ministry. i never met mitt romney, but he looks fantastic. and smart people. i can go down the row. but i don't know. >> rick perry is not going to be your friend much longer if you keep saying how fantastic mitt romney is. >> well -- >> you have to make your mind up somewhere down the line, don't you? back the right horse. >> to me i'm taking it all in like everybody else. i'm just an outsider looking in. >> you are a republican, aren't you? you have to be. >> well, i've voted both ways before. >> really? >> but i'm conservative. you know. that's who i've always been. >> you're very conservative, aren't you? >> i like to vote on the candidate. >> who do you like? >> who do i like? i'm still watching. >> right now if you had to put an x by someone's name? >> good thing i don't have to right now because it's too early in the race. >> victoria, what do you think are the key issues in society today? what do you think people most care about? >> i think -- are you talking about political issues -- >> anything. when people come to your church, what's really -- >> they care about their relationships. their relationships, their finances, and their meantime. >> i would say that's what most people care most about. do you think politicians today are doing the right kind of thing or are they too busy squabbling with each other in washington to deal with like you just defined it's real issues people are concerned with in america? >> yes, i think they're squabbling too much. >> they're spending a lot of time shouting at each other. >> yes. >> we've already discussed you don't shout. when you see them all ranting and raving and being deliberately obstructive to get be things done, what do you think? >> well, i think like most americans i would hope that they would work together. and what you i see that's difficult these days is any kind of compromise. it's hard to get 100% of what you want. you know? just like some of these issues we're talking about. i think it's getting more difficult for some people to have some type of compromise to say nothing's going to get done if we don't come together. that would be my hope, that we would -- you know, but it's difficult. >> are you comfortable with a mormon becoming president? if mitt romney won, for example, or jon huntsman. i mean, they're both mormons. would you be comfortable with that? >> you know, i'm comfortable with -- that would not stop me from voting for somebody. i would look at the total candidate, though. you know, what's their experience. what's their education? what do they stand for? i don't think i would vote for somebody just because they're a mormon or anything like that. >> are there aspects to mormonism which you find offensive? >> i don't know a lot about it. and here i go again but -- >> how can you keep saying that? >> i don't know a lot about it. here's the thing. >> i bet you do. you don't want me to think you know lots about it. otherwise, it makes the argument more difficult. >> well, you know, i haven't studied it. i hear things from time to time. there are certain things about the mormon religion that i don't agree with. >> like what? >> i think there's different degrees in religion, too. it's just like being a christian. you could say these people think it's okay to do this, this, and this and they're christian. and these people say oh, no, we don't -- like you're saying the catholic church. well, they won't let you do this, this, and this. so i think it has to do with degrees of how much you practice that religion -- >> what are the things about mormonism which are awkward for you? >> you know, i don't know enough about their beliefs to point out what they are, to articulate it well. here's what i believe. mitt romney says that he believes jesus is the son of god, that he believes jesus is his savior. to me those are the foundational things that when i look at somebody could i vote for them, do they believe in the major things like me. i don't know what other all the other church doctrine is. >> could you vote for a jewish candidate? >> sure, i could vote for a jewish candidate. i mean, jews, that's how our faith was started. they're god's chosen people in the scripture. i mean, sure i could. >> so you don't really mind particularly what religion -- could you vote for a muslim candidate? >> well, i think -- i think i could. i would have to look at it all. but i would have to look at, you know, it's so hypothetical. because you know, if we're talking about for america, you know, 90% of america is christian. so i am pretty sure that i would find somebody that more shares my beliefs and is educated and qualified. so it's hard for me to go there because i don't think we'll come to that point. >> what do you make of what's going on with the palestinians and the israelis right now? >> well, it's a difficult situation. it's been that way for so many years. i mean, like the scripture says, we pray for peace for over there. we stand with the israeli people. our hearts go out to the palestinian people as well. they want peace. they want to live their life in victory. you know, it's a difficult thing. >> you both went out there recently, i think, to israel, right? >> we did. we went out in february. >> tell me about that. how did you find it? >> we found it very peaceful. it's amazing. a country that has been under such conflict for so long. you know, you hear stories in america like it's dangerous and, you know, you see like the worst. but you go in there, and the people are very solid. they're very peaceful. they have a lot of confidence in the fact that they're going to be okay. yes, they want to fight for what they feel like is rightfully theirs. but it was quite of interesting. we had a night of hope over there. and we had -- the auditorium was full. we had a wonderful time. and we just -- we thought it was a very fascinating -- it really brings the bible alive. you go to these places, you know, where jesus walked, where you pray where the disciples were, you know, the sea of galilee. we found it fascinating. >> does it worry you that so many areas of conflict in the world are religion prompted? >> well, i don't -- >> sort of goes against the grain, doesn't it? in terms of the theory of these things. as opposed to all peace-loving religions. but they all turn out to be excuses to kill people. >> well, it's been that way for hundreds if not thousands of years. so it is a shame that we can't get along and the day we're living in today that you would think you would still have to kill people to try to get your point of view. you know, it is difficult. but you just have to keep believing and hoping and praying. you know. i think that's all you can do in some of these situations. >> we'll take another break, come back and talk about osteen incorporated. the burgeoning empire of the number one rock star preacher in the world. you don't look like a rock star. i'm ted rowlands. here's a look at our top stories. pakistan has cut off two supply lines into afghanistan after a deadly attack by nato forces on pakistan's own troops. 24 pakistani soldiers were killed in the attacks. trucks carrying vital supplies are now sitting idle at the border. pakistan says it will reassess its relationship with the u.s. and nato. nato hasn't accepted blame for the incident but is promising a full investigation. pro-democracy syrians are hailing the possibility of sanctions against their government by the arab league. finance ministers agreed on saturday that assets of the government and its officials should be frozen. they also want to punish the regime with travel restrictions. arab league foreign ministers will decide on sunday whether to adopt the sanctions. another 29 people were killed in the crackdown there on saturday. more than 40 years after the assassination of robert f. kennedy, lawyers for sirhan sirhan are trying to get him a new trial. sirhan is serving a life sentence in california. among other things, sirhan's lawyers say their expert analysis of new evidence shows that two guns were used and that sirhan's revolver was not the one that killed kennedy. those are the headlines. keeping you informed, cnn, the most trusted name in news. you're going to have everything god intended for you to have. ♪ mom? 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[ applause ] amen. >> from the osteens' american night of hope event in chicago. joel and victoria back with me now. some of the stats on your business empire are quite extraordinary. joelosteen.com one of the top streaming sites in the world with 500,000 viewers. on itunes you get 4 million downloads a month to your podcast. you have a million daily requests for your e-mailed daily inspirational message. i mean, this is the stuff of empires. huh? aired in 100 countries. do you ever stop to think wow, how did this happen? >> i do. i do start to think about that often. especially, piers, when i never planned on doing this. i mean, 12 years ago i was running camera at my dad's church, doing the production, things like that. i never thought i'd get out in front of people. i never wanted to do it. i like being behind the scenes. but when my dad died, i felt like down in here i was supposed to step up and pastor the church. i'd never ministered in public before and never dreamed it would grow. but here we are. >> i mean, you make vast sums of money. the church takes in $18 million a year but all of that gets plowed back into the church. is that right? >> that's correct that's correct. >> but on the books, which sell by the squillion, you keep all the cash. >> well, we give. we're big givers. >> keep some of it? >> we do. >> when you have to pay the light bill. >> exactly. but you're like multimillionaires, aren't you? >> we don't have any problem -- i don't think god has any problem with you being blessed. it's where your heart is. our heart was never to go out and make money and let's become rich. it's let's fulfill our purpose. >> but you like being rich? >> i like being able to help others. i like being able to help others. it takes money to do what we're doing. >> you're like willie wonka as you sort of walk around bailing people out. when you hear about problems you swing by the villages and the towns. are you like that? you give to people who come to you for help? >> sure. the church gives to people. we support works overseas. we work with organizations to get child sponsorships to feed and clothe and educate children. we feel like that's why god gives you influence, to help the world, to make it a better place. >> what do you think when president obama brings in a new tax on the super rich, everyone over $1 million, which would include you guys, do you feel he's on the right track? should the rich be paying more tax? would you happily write more money to the treasury? >> you know, piers, again, it's so far out of my league. i would do -- >> well, i'm asking you personally. would you mind paying more tax? >> well, i wouldn't be foolish. i don't mind doing what is agreed upon by the government. we will be great citizens and not complain. whatever the right thing to do is. >> that's a different kind of question. what i'm saying is would you like it? >> no. i'd rather have all the money and the government run great without the money and i'd give it away to other people. but you know, i don't think -- obviously, it's not practical. we've got to, you know, have infrastructure and all the other. >> what do you think ideologically, i'll ask you, victoria, of the principle of rich people paying more tax generally? >> i think they pay good -- i pay a good amount of tax right now as it is. so you know, i think that the theory of taxing the rich has been kind of -- the conservative thought is that the more you tax the rich the less they're going to be able to bring on new jobs and to do these things. >> do you actually believe all that? isn't it just a convenient thing that rich people come out with? >> i don't know. i think it's interesting when the luxury tax was applied that, you know, it's just -- it's not like they're just trying to spend money. they quit spending money. so they took the luxury tax away. so you know, i think it's a complicated issue. i think that you know, just like you, you know, do you want to pay more taxes? >> i wouldn't mind paying more tax. i think in principle -- funny enough, americans pay a lot less tax than we do in britain, for example. a lot less. which may be why we're in the financial crisis we're in now. but for a long time the tax rates have been a lot higher in britain. and i don't have a problem with that. i don't have a problem with the ideology of the rich paying a higher tax bracket than the poor. but many people in america do. i think part of that is the class structure here, unlike in britain where it depends on who your parents were and where you went to sxoolt kind of accent you have, in america it's based much more around working hard-a , achieving success, and the money comes with that. and you're the perfect examples of that. it's a different class structure, isn't it? >> i think it is. you know, i agree with what victoria said. even what you said. we don't mind paying to help others as long as it's done fair and somebody has figured out the best way to do it. we live in a great country. we feel blessed to live here and the freedom and the -- just the -- you know, just the freedom we have every day to not have to think about anything. you know, it's a blessed place to live. >> we began this interview with happiness and happy talk. and we're going to end it with that. we're going to come back after the break and talk about the next generation of osteens. the future for the empire. congratulations. congratulations. congratulations. today, the city of charlotte can use verizon technology to inspire businesses to conserve energy and monitor costs. making communities greener... congratulations. ... and buildings as valuable to the bottom line... whoa ! ... as the people inside them. congratulations. because when you add verizon to your company, you don't just add, you multiply. ♪ discover something new... verizon. when you're a sports photographer, things can get out of control pretty quickly. so i like control in the rest of my life... especially my finances. that's why i have slate, with blueprint. i can make a plan to pay off big stuff faster... or avoid interest on everyday things. that saves me money. with slate from chase, i'm always in control. financially, anyway. get slate with blueprint and save money. call 855-get-slate today. ♪ you want to save money on car insurance? 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[ male announcer ] it has an hd webcam, killer audio, and lids that switch to start every semester fresh. but mostly it helps me try new moves on and off the court. ♪ [ male announcer ] powered by the 2nd gen intel core i5 processor: not just smart, visibly smart. nobody does black friday like dell.com. visit dell.com starting at midnight and all weekend for instant savings on some of our most popular products. back with the osteens. you'll be pleased to know this is the final segment. three minutes of hell left, joel, and you're off the hook again. do you like being interviewed or do you find it a bit of a minefield? >> you know what? i enjoy it. i don't always know the -- you know, the subjects i'm not always familiar with. but i enjoy talking with different people. especially you. >> your two children are both beginning to show signs of real talent. alexandra sings, she's 13. jonathan's in a band as well. he's 16. would you like them to do what you did, take over the business if you suddenly weren't around? would you be happy with that. >> i'd be thrilled. you know, nothing greater than for your children to follow in your legacy. i mean, i can't call them. i can't make them. i think it has to be a calling that they feel from on high. but you know, what i like about them is they're way further along than i was at that age. i wouldn't get up in front of people. they're very comfortable and great kids. >> do they have to lead really squeaky clean lives? 16-year-old boys normally, certainly where i come from, this is around the time they're getting into too many pints of cider and running back in the bike sheds with every girl in the town. are they going to be -- >> i never feel like it like that. we try to set a good example in front of them and do our best. but they're great kids. i'm sure they're going to have challenges like we all do, but i don't feel -- my parents were never strict on me. they never made me go to church. we went to church because all of our friends were there. they're the same way. my daughter had me getting to church at 7:00 the other morning. i said i don't want to get there that early. she said we're all getting there early. but that's what they like. all their friends are there. sometimes when you overpressure, i mean, i think the key, piers is to set a good example at home. we have fun and we don't have to have a lot of other things to make us happy. >> could you enjoy all this without victoria? because even there she was looking at you really adoringly. >> i wouldn't enjoy it half as much. i don't think i would be half of who i am without victoria. she has spoken faith and vision into me from the beginning. before i was ever a pastor. sitting there when my dad was ministering. she used to say one day you're going to pastor the church. and that would make me mad. i would say i can't pastor the church. i don't know how to speak. i don't know how to minister. but she just kept speaking those -- faith into me. we have fun together too. we take life seriously, but we have fun together. >> victoria, how do you have fun together? what's he talking about? >> we have good conversations. we like to do a lot of outdoor things together. we work together -- >> what's his favorite thing you like to do together, on a friday when you're feeling your happiest, what's the thing you most like? what's your perfect friday? >> well, we like to have a good dinner and we like to either ride our bikes or we like to just hang out and talk or you know, we may have a few friends over. >> do you love him as much as you did the day you first met him? >> absolutely. and i respect him even more. >> what's the secret of the joel osteen magic, do you think? >> i think he's a man of his word. i think he's a man of his word. he's always looking for the best in any situation. he's very respectful. he's very generous. and he's very kind and he's extremely wise. >> would you agree with all that, joel? >> that and more. >> i left a few things out. he's good-looking. >> you can't ignore it. you must get some groupies. doesn't he? >> oh, i have some kind people. i don't call them groupies but people that -- you know, they feel like you've helped them. >> no, i mean attractive younger women wanting to throw themselves at you? do you get them? >> i don't -- >> are you a proper like tom jones? >> no. not in the work we do. there's people that are respectful. but i don't ever feel that. >> victoria, do you ever have to step in and just, back off, he's mine? >> well, you know, it's funny because when i'm out even by myself, this is what women say to me. "oh, victoria, i love your husband."

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