laps. every day when i come into this building, it's still amazing to me, a sense of wonder, how did this happen? how did i become governor? you shake your head. >> the piers morgan interview starts now. governor, thank you for inviting me to your lair here. >> yes. >> four pictures of bruce springsteen. he doesn't even like you. >> i like him. it's unrequited love. i got to hang with it. >> talking unrequited love, i know for a fact you have been watching my show because donald trump told me. given you watch my show, you'll note my favorite question is how many times have you been properly in love, which leads me to the fundamental issue about mitt romney, why so few members of his own party properly in love with mitt romney? >> i think there's two things at play here. the first is that he's a very reserved guy. and so in the time that we're in right now, a very tumultuous angry emotional time, at the moment, reserved is not necessarily what the primary electorate seems to want. i think that's one part of it. i think it will be a real asset in general election as people are looking for a president and not just a nominee. secondly, too, it is the nature of our republican electorate right now, they're very angry about the president and the direction the president's taken us in and they want someone they believe will fight the president. i think governor romney will do that on the issues. they seem to want something more emotive at the moment. i think that ebbs and flows and eventually come back his way, as we look at these contests coming up the end of this month and then on to super tuesday. >> what you're seeing is a real battle for the heart and soul of the republican party and clear choices are emerging, not just on policy but also on character. on the very passion you just hinted at, because i sense that one of the reasons rick santorum is gaining such momentum is not necessarily that he is in reality more passionate than mitt romney or that he cares more, that he sounds like he does. a lot of romney supporters say to me, why isn't he giving more of himself to this? why isn't he beating his chest more? why isn't he giving us more passion? why doesn't he look like he wants this more? >> i don't think anybody can come to the conclusion he doesn't want it. this guy works incredibly hard, extraordinarily hard to get out and meet people and to win votes. i don't think it's that. again, i think it's -- there are certain personalities, you interview lots of people. i would not be called a reserved type, right? >> no. >> but romney is. governor romney is a reserved kind of guy and people need to get to know him more. i have told him i think it benefits him to get out there more and let people see the family side of him, see him as a father, a husband, a grandfather, because when you see that, you see the enormous compassion he has, and how much he cares about his kids, his grandkids and their future. >> actually, i think you make a good point. i think it is that lack of personal stuff, which at the moment is giving rick santorum a bit of a benefit out there. he's out there and he has a strong family, you know that. he's a catholic like you, again, the criticism i hear about mitt romney compared to rick santorum, it was summed up by the economist magazine, rick santorum comes over as an authentic in a way mitt romney doesn't. mitt romney, because he's perceived to have flip-flopped on quite a few of his issues because he comes off as robotic actually comes off as slightly slippery, their words, not mine. >> do you accept the criticism of the way he's being perceive. >> no, i don't accept the criticism because i don't think he's slippery and his issues have evolved over time and we want people always re-evaluating positions and issues to make sure it's something they're comfortable with and willing to fight for. >> here's the problem what rick santorum said at the cpac. the lesson we learned we will no longer abandon and apologize for policies and principles that made this country great for a hollow victory in november. he's banging that drum and i think he's banging it quite successfully to many conservatives. what he's saying is, i am true to my principles and they are conservative principles. if you study his record, it's hard to find much evidence of what some would say opportunistic flip-flopping. >> senator santorum also has been one of the folks been one of the biggest spenders in washington d.c. was a part of a huge spending spree while he was in washington trying to bring tons of money back to pennsylvania. let's not go overboard with he's true to his core conservative principles. i can point out a number of ways rick has at times varied from that. he would argue -- >> give me some. >> he could argue on the other hand, that was his job as pennsylvania senator to try to bring money back to the state. i would say, yeah, that was one of your jobs but don't try to argue to me on the other hand, that is a core conservative principle. here's my view of it. i believe you should never compromise your principles. i always believe there is a boulevard between getting everything you want and compromising your principles. the job of a leader is to negotiate the vehicle on to that boulevard and move it down so we can make progress. romney will do that. i think he'll do it better than anybody offering themselves for president right now including the president who's proven he can't do that. >> be honest, the moment you heard the following words out of mitt romney's mouth, did you do what the rest of us did, went what? i am severely conservative. >> sure, i wouldn't have used that phrase. you can't have it both ways in a sense. you want people to be spontaneous and you want them speaking from the heart. at times that means some words come out of your mouth that weren't perfect. if you want something perfectly rehearsed, if you want a performance, a theater performance, go to the president of the united states. he reads off the teleprompter, gives a theater performance. if that's what you want. if you think that's genuineness, he's your guy to vote for. happen not to. you know what, i'm out there enough unscripted, i know every once in a while words come occupant of your mouth you would have liked to pick better, in the end, people are looking to pick on governor romney now. the fact he could have used committed and used different words. he used severely and i wouldn't use it and i guess he wouldn't use it again either. the fact is, what's the difference? >> the difference is many people in the republican party actually think the last thing he is severely conservative and that's the problem. they look at rick santorum and think he's indisputably severely conservative. that comes back to my thing at the start about the battle for the heart and soul of the party is which way is the party instinctively going to go? >> you have to look at the sum of someone's record. i looked at the sum of governor romney's record and i believe he's the best person to lead our party and our country during these difficult times. >> what is the -- you know him better than many people. for somebody like you, when i last interviewed you i was pushing you to do what everyone in the party was desperate to say, for you to run. i still think you would have been a very serious contender, you chose not to for reasons we discussed at the time and put your store behind mitt romney. what are the characteristics of him not getting over at the moment you see when you speak to him privately, that persuaded you to put your reputation behind him? >> one, i think he's got integrity. two, i think he is very smart. three, i think he cares deeply about the issues, four, i think he has the experience as an executive to actually turn ideas and concepts into reality. all those things are incredibly important. i do believe this guy is a conservative and will govern in a conservative way our country. let's remember something, we all get into this hyper heavy breathing that we go through about the last election, the last time people voted. you know, mitt romney's won a state convincingly, like florida, that is a microcosm of our entire country. i'd suggest to you in some of the other places where senator santorum won, he didn't even win any delegates. this is about getting 1144 delegates. he's going to get there. >> it is. it's also about momentum. you are a political animal to your absolute fiber. >> thank you. >> i knew you'd like that. but you know and mitt romney will know that the incredible momentum after florida, everyone was saying, february will be easy, home run into super tuesday, game over. looks a very different picture now, you have to admit that. >> sure. i'm so shocked the pundits were wrong. i have to fall over in absolute shock. we need to take a moment to revive me. >> do you want a moment of silence? >> they were wrong and continue to be wrong. the people will decide this election, any people of the republican party. i believe in the end, mitt romney will get the majority of delegates he needs to get. you guys have lots of time to fill on the cable news networks. you've got to talk about something. >> santorum surge is a juicy bone, exciting. >> congratulations but that doesn't mean i have to buy it. >> no. but it is real, there is a santorum surge. >> he won three contests in an evening, congratulations. good for him. >> you're not feeling the surge? >> i'm really not. you've given out 10% of the delegates. talk to me when we're at 50, 60% of the delegates and we can see if anybody has a surge or not. >> when these doors shut and you speak to mitt romney. what are the key things you think he's not doing or the campaign is not doing? what does he need to do to get back on track. >> you think i'm telling you that? >> you might give me a few little teasers. >> when i have advice to give to mitt romney, i give it to mitt romney and not to anybody else? >> if you were being critical. >> i won't be. not publicly. >> you heavy been. when he didn't release his tax returns. >> that was a suggestion. >> and said you need to release the tax returns. >> i had already made the suggestion to him. >> what suggestions have you already made to him that you can repeat to me? not that i'm telling you. >> there is an inconsistency there. >> no, there's not. there isn't. >> people look at you as the passion part of the vehicle. you're in his engine and the one giving all the passion. they need it from mitt romney, he's the candidate, he's the guy that has to somehow find another gear. i suppose what i'm getting at is where's that gear going to come from? what have we not seen so far? >> it has to come from inside him and if it doesn't, he won't win. listen, the end of the day, i'm a surrogate, a supporter. i will do everything i can to help him win the nomination and win the presidency. in the end, he has to win the nomination, he has to win the presidency. so where will the next gear come from? if it's going to come from some place it will come from right here. that's part of the reason why we have campaigns for people to test that and judge it. i have seen it one-on-one and i believe it's there and i believe the american people are going to see it. it's not my responsibility at the end of the day to make that happen, piers. i'll do everything i can to help him and give advice privately and say things publicly when i think it's appropriate. what i won't do is get him elected, i can't nor can anyone else. that's up to mitt romney. >> we'll take a break and talk about the economy and want to talk to you about what mitt romney said apparently not caring about the poor. do you care about the poor, governor? >> sure do. so does he. >> let's explore that in a moment. when you have tough pain, do you want fast relief? try bayer advanced aspirin. it's not the bayer aspirin you know. it's different. first...it's been re-engineered with micro-particles. second, it enters the bloodstream fast, and rushes relief to the site of your tough pain. the best part? 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[ male announcer ] progresso. you gotta taste this soup. governor, let's talk about the economy. there's no doubt that despite your best efforts to portray it as a continuing fiasco, the american economy is improving, and that is good news for barack obama. you can see it in the latest poll ratings, figures out today on one poll i read showed his approval rating in new jersey is significantly up now, in where it was in november. so this has to be a concern for the republicans as they go into the proper election battle, doesn't it? >> first of all, i don't think it's my obligation to characterize the economy as a fiasco. in new jersey, it's getting better. we've take an lot of affirmative steps beyond what has happened in washington to put people back to work, 60,000 private sector jobs since i have been governor. the president should be judged on the entirety of his term. if in fact he took the steps necessary and appropriate right from the beginning to make our economy even better than what it is today. so, listen, i think there's going to be a real robust debate this fall on what the proper role of government is in the economy and whether or not the obama approach has been successful or successful enough or whether another approach by our nom ni, governor romney would be better? >> did you approve instinctively yourself of the bailout of the auto industry? >> i got to tell you the truth, i didn't spend a lot of time thinking about it. >> now that i asked you to think about. >> it -- i try to give it more than three or four seconds thought -- >> you've only given it three or four seconds thought -- >> what i was working on at the time that was going on was getting elected governor in a state that had over 10% unemployment. $15 billion in deficits and fee increases in the eight years before i became governor. i had enough to deal with here and not have to deal with what the president's doing. >> i'm asking you because mitt romney has come under fire for continuing to be critical of the bailout, even when you have gm releasing some record profits, clearly indicative that the bailout has worked? listen, when you have mitt romney on, you should ask him. >> what do you think? >> i just told you, i didn't spend a lot of time thinking about it. >> you don't have a view of the bailout of the american auto industry. >> what i have is a view of what's happening here in this state. that's my job. >> i get that. >> i know you get it. you will continue to ask, i'm not going to give you a better answer than i'm giving you. we can continue to do back and forth or you can go to the next car. >> the reason i'm asking and i'm sensing and your reply is giving me a sense even more you don't want to answer because you think the bailout was a success. >> i have given the president a lot of credit on this. >> do you think he was successful? >> you can ask it four or five different ways, i won't answer it until i have given thought -- >> is it complex? >> sure, it is. >> auto industry going bust, barack obama decides the way to recover is is do a big bailout and affects everybody and it affects everybody, if gm had gone under, huge problems for the country. it indisputably works, i suppose i would like to hear you, if you believe it, say the president was right, he deserves credit. >> i know you would like to hear it? if you believe it. >> sure, i know you'd like to hear it. what i'm saying to you, i'm not giving to you an answer on that. i haven't thought through it enough. my job is to be governor of new jersey. i know you think i'm supposed to be conversant on every national topic at the moment and have an opinion and you'd love for me to do that. i'm not going to do it. >> do you drive a car? >> not anymore. i ride in a car. they don't let me drive. i ride in a gm car. >> what is your view ideologically of bailouts? >> my view is the government should have as little involvement in the private sector as it possibly can. from a general philosophical perspective, that's where i come from. we won't take the next leap even though you may try to into the bailout again. my view, when i have had time to study it, i will come back on and give you a reasoned opinion. i get in trouble and rightfully so when you talk about things that important off-the-cuff, i don't think you should do that. even though it might be entertaining television, i'm not going to do that. >> are you pleased it's worked? >> i'm pleased people are working. any place people are work, general motors, caterpillar, microsoft, ibm, facebook, like in new jersey where we have 60,000 private sector jobs since i became governor and unemployment come down a full point, that's the stuff i'm happy about. >> what do you think about this issue, other people don't agree with this, you take a company like apple, one of the greatest companies ever created, one of america's great companies now, generating hundreds of billions of dollars in profit, they employ more people in china than in america. is it not time companies like appling -- apple making the money they're doing, take the lead and bring 10% of the workforce from china back to america. i always thought if they did that, they would get such good will from the american public, they would make up the difference. >> we should let business people make nos decisions, not government. >> i'm trying to help the jobless situation in america by encouraging big companies to take the moral responsible lead by doing things that aren't necessarily 100% in the interest of their ever fattening shareholders but in the interest of national interests. >> the ever fattening shareholders are people who have pensions invested in apple and people who have iras and 401(k)s invested in apple and as those become ever fattened they have more money for retirement and kids' education and the point is i don't think demagoguing that piece is not a good thing for you necessarily to do. if you're really concerned, leave cnn and be the ceo of a company and lead them in a way that's profitable for people you want it to be beneficial for. that would be fine. >> is it not a debate worth having. >> sure it is. have the debate. >> that's what i'm trying to do. >> i'm having it with you. >> you told me to leave cnn -- >> if you want to set policy, go to those places? >> no. it's not about setting policy, about whether enough people with influence, like yourself, went out and publicly called on very successful american companies to actually bring some of the workforce from specifically china back to america by doing it in a way that doesn't necessarily fit their shareholder need for ever more profit but serves the american national interests, wouldn't that be a good thing? >> what would be a good thing is for us to allow the people, shareholders and executives of the companies make those decisions. to the extent anybody wants to speak out on those things, they should speak out in an informed way and do that. the fact is apple has been pretty successful doing what it's doing and very successful for its shareholders, many people middle america middle class folks counting on apple's success not only for the products they produce but also for the profits they're producing that help their retirement and kids' college education funds and help them to pay the bills from day-to-day. i think the fact that apple's successful is a good thing just even absent the jobs piece, it's a good thing for america. if