office. >> i'd love to suck on your machine gun. the whole point of your defense is that a lot of people do drop dead precisely because you are armed to the teeth. round two, coming up. and keeping america great, the success coach, the man in oprah's life, steadman graham. >> he's somebody who is willing to stand in and stand up for you. and of that's what love is. >> only in america, why women's place is taking the tea, not that tea. the augusta national. this is piers morgan tonight. >> good evening. our big story tonight, the battle over trayvon martin. was his death a crime or self-defense? attorneys for both sides will try to make their case tonight. motor city madman, ted nugent with a feeling it might get as heated as it did the last time he was here. >> whenever i've done interviews with guys that are inclined to be anti-gun, they always go, well, nugent wants everybody to have a machine gun. >> what does nugent want? >> not even close. >> what do you want? >> what i want is the second amendment. we, the people, free individuals, to have the right to keep and bear arms for self-defense. find fault with that. >> ted nugent coming up later, but first the trayvon martin case. george zimmerman's attorneys join me now. gentlemen, thank you for joining me. you've been leading this defense of george zimmerman for a while. let me ask you a difficult question. your client's been subjected now to national attention, the likes of which very few people ever have to face. the vast majority of americans believe that it would be in the interest of american justice if he was at least to be arrested and to be properly investigated, given that on the night itself, of this incident, neither of those things appear to have happened. do you believe that it might be in your client's best interest now if he was to turn himself in? >> well, first of all, there's no warrant for him to be arrested. so there's nobody to turn himself into. if and when this ask a warrant, he will turn himself in. we're keeping track of him. law enforcement is keeping track of him. he's not hiding out. he's hiding out from the people who are trying to kill him, actually. and at this point, there's an ongoing investigation. they're doing a thorough investigation. in cases like this, they don't just say -- -- so that gives law enforcement more time to investigate the case. so justice is being done, and the investigation is being done, so there's not an issue there, i forget what the other part of your question was. >> well, i think you've pretty well answered it it. in the case of just being done, isn't the problem is that justice has not been seen to be done properly. in the sense that george zimmerman was allowed to go home, having used a firearm to kill an unarmed teenager. and most americans believe that that was fundamentally not justice being served. >> well, justice is not being served because all the facts of that night have not been brought out. not a single thing has been brought into the media that would be admissible in court. all those facts need to be brought out and justice being done, there's been no justice for george zimmerman. he's been tried and convicted in the court of public opinion based on facts that are not even true. things that don't add up, that don't make sense. when all the facts come out, when the police finish their investigation, you will see that george zimmerman was acting in self-defense that night. >> let me put to you some facts which i believe are facts, but you can certainly query that if you want to. one, george zimmerman was not supposed to be carrying a gun while operating as a neighborhood watch official. would you accept that as a fact? >> george zimmerman was on his way to the store, and he was allowed to legally carry a gun with him because he had a concealed weapons permit when he went to the store that night. >> but if he was actingsa a neighborhood watch official, then you would accept as a fact that he should not have been carrying a weapon, or, indeed, using it? >> the one thing we know as a fact is that george zimmerman was attacked by trayvon martin. he was punched in the nose, his head was beaten on the ground. and he acted in self-defense when trayvon martin was shot. >> but they are sup zition, not facts. that's not a fact. that's supposition based on what george zimmerman has told you and told police. but in terms of factual evidence, that's still not clear. it's not factual evidence yet. >> that's right. that's why i'm telling everyone to wait before you rush to judgement. wait till the facts come in. wait till this case goes to court. wait till the facts come in. admissible evidence in court, not what's admissible evidence in public opinion because what's admissible in public opinion are doctored 911 tapes and whatever anyone else wanted to say about george zimmerman. it's been open season on destroying this man's credibility, destroying who he was. he can no longer go back to the person he was, being involved in his community, mentoring children. you've destroyed him -- the media has destroyed him unfairly. and the conclusions you're drawing in your questions to me show that you've already reached that same conclusion too. what i want you to do and america to do, is to step back, use your cool head and listen to the facts. listen to what comes out. listen to what the police investigation shows. i think when you do that, you will see that george zimmerman acted in self-defense. >> right. the 911 operator that he spoke to, told him not to follow trayvon martin. yet he did. do you accept that as a fact? >> no, they did not. absolutely not. that's not a fact. >> okay. how are you -- >> and that's the way it's been spun. that's the way it's been spun, but that's not what the operator said. they asked, are you following him? he said yes. the operator said, we don't need you to do that. now, the way that's been repeated is, he was ordered not to do that. words mean things. >> it means the same thing. >> no, it's not the same thing. for you to suggest that he's not entitled to have a fire department with him that he's licensed to carry because while he was on the way to the store, he noticed someone and undertake the responsibility of watch captain, to call the police and report it is absolutely ludicrous. >> let me stop you there. let me stop you right there. that's very interesting. so what you're saying to me is that he was acting, once he made that call to the police, to the 911, he was then acting as a neighborhood watch official? do you accept that? is that what you're saying? >> i'll accept that he was acting as a responsible citizen who happened to be the one that the newsletter for that community says, if you see something suspicious, called george zimmerman. but the fact that he notices something while he's armed doesn't require him to put his gun in the trunk. it doesn't require a different set of rules. and by the way, he's legally entitled to defend himself. >> but he's not allowed to carry a gun as a neighborhood watch official. >> you're wrong. >> when he made the call to 911 -- well, i'm not wrong. that is the law, isn't it? >> you are wrong. you are wrong. i don't know who's talking to you about the law, but you're wrong. there's nothing in the law that says if you act as a neighborhood watch captain -- >> right. they can all go up with firearms, can they? >> absolutely. you may have a hand book that suggests that you don't, but to say it's illegal to do so, it a misstatement of the law. let me suggest something to you. it is a terrible tragedy that trayvon martin is dead. his parents are suffering unimaginable grief. that's not being helped by people coming to town, telling false hoods to raise racial strife. that morning we had a peaceful community with blacks and whites, didn't think that we had a problem. after some folks came to down and made irresponsible speeches about murder and racial profiling, he's not a racist, it wasn't profiling. the reason trayvon martin is dead is not because he was black or wearing a hoodie or walking in the rain. it's because that 6'3" young man made a terrible decision when he decided to smack somebody in the face and break their nose, jump on them and smack their head into the ground and in doing that, put him in reasonable fear for his safety. you're going to find that there was a dispute as to what happened with the gun. he was entitled to defend himself. that's why trayvon martin is dead, not because of racial profiling. >> well, i've not suggesting racial profiling or that your client was a racist. nor am i trying to convict him. my view has been, it seems incomp hencible to me under any law that somebody could shoot somebody who turned out to be unarmed and not even being arrested on the night. in britain where i come from, that would cause a sensation the likes of which our justice system has never seen before. florida clearly believes it's the right way forward. i don't think it is. however, understand one thing clearly, i'm not trying to convict your client. i want justice to see its course. the argument against what's happened here with your client is that on the night, the investigation was basically concluded and he was sent home because there was no evidence to disprove george zimmerman's story, that he had been acting in self-defense. the reason i wanted you guys on tonight was precisely to try to talk through some of the developments in factual information or otherwise, to try to get a clearer picture of exactly what we're dealing with here. i would argue back to both of you, you've both been just as emotive in stating what you believe to be facts as other people have been on trayvon martin's side. >> as have you. >>. >> i'm not sure that does the attorneys a lot of credit, frankly. >> let me suggest a difference president people who have been emotive at these rallies, were not there, and have not spoken to anybody who was there. the sole eyewitness to this, the only eyewitness who talked to the police that night, gave them his statement, said that he saw george martin on the ground, crying for help, being beaten by trayvon martin. that's not a supposition. that's a fact. you can choose your opinion, but you can't choose your facts. we're going to find the facts when the investigation is entirely completed. neither the sanford police department or the special prosecutor owe you or mow or the public the luxury of giving us every little fact as they do their investigation. when they're done, we'll find out how those facts apply to the law, the florida law, not the united kingdom or ireland or with one of the other 28 states that don't have that law. the legislature have decided it's not ludicrous. the people elected to pass these laws have decided it makes sense. it doesn't have to make sense to you. it makes sense to them, and it's the law. >> let's try to get to the factual detail. when i interviewed george's brother, he told me he had sustained a broken nose, and it was still broken today. is that true and if so, why don't you simply release an x-ray of the broken nose to corroborate that? part of the problem you've been facing in perception is that there doesn't appear to have been much sign of serious injury. if you released a picture, an x-ray of george zimmerman's nose broken, that would be helpful to your case, i would argue. >> first of all, he's already been tried and convicted in the media. we're going to try this case in court. all that evidence will be presented at that time. but not here and not tonight and not on this program. >> right. but you can state as a fact that his nose is broken? >> i can state as a fact that his nose is broken. but for me to establish it, and to have it admitted in court, that is not going to happen tonight because this is not a courtroom. you're not a judge. we're not operating under the rules of evidence under the state of florida. you're trying to get me to litigate this case right now. as i've said many times, we're not going to litigate this case in the public media. this is going to be litigated if at all in the courts of the state of florida. >> actually you've been litigating the case. that's the point. you have been litigating a set of what you believe to be facts. you believe that george zimmerman didn't defy instructions from the 911 operator not to follow trayvon mart martin. you believe that he was set upon by trayvon martin, beaten so badly that he feared for his life, even though trayvon martin and the people acting for him is that your client followed him and gets instructions from the 911 operator and that maybe some altercation took place, but trayvon martin was unarmed and had been to a store to buy skittles and take them back to his father's house. he had every right and expectation to get back to his father's house. instead he was shot dead. and you, in your way, i would argue are litigating the defense for your client without the facts. these aren't facts you're giving me about the fight and what happened. they are your supposition. >> let me stop you there. >> they are what you believe to have happened. >> that's the evidence that's been released from the police department. that's as close to fact as we have right now. but i'm confident when the rest of the facts and i'm more able to show it in a court of law, through admissible evidence, that it will show that george zimmerman was acting in self-defense and all the things that you're stating, well, he went to the -- he went to the 7-11 to get skittles, that wasn't in the police report. >> wait a minute, wait a minute, sorry, i have to jump -- >> are you going to keep interrupting me? >> let me just jump in there? of course it's not in the police report. trayvon martin was dead. how could it it be in the police report that he'd gone to buy skit ils? >> that's right. it's not in the police report. that's not been released as a fact. the only things i've stated are things that have been released as facts from the authorities. when this case goes to trial, you will see george zimmerman acted in self-defense. and the rest of what you're telling me, do you have some other questions for us so we can move on? >> i do, do. let me ask you, why don't you aquantity me with the american legal process then. is it a fact that your client has told his version of events to the police, and that actually that is what you're basing factual evidence on, the word of george zimmerman zim to the police on the night? you have no other factual evidence to support the fact that he had been set upon by trayvon martin, do you? it is the word of your client to the police unless i'm wrong. >> you are wrong. let me try to put this in context. first of all, his statement shouldn't be discounted immediately just because he's the one that you'd like to have convicted. second of all, we have an eyewitness. if he wasn't set upon, we have an eyewitness that says that trayvon martin was on top of him, peting him in the face, that he was on the ground crying for help. it's a fact that that statement was made. whether it's a fact or not if he's telling the truth, it's a fact. if he's telling a lie, tts not. but one thing is certain, no one came out that night and no one has come out since tho indicate that they saw this physical altercation started by george zimmerman. that's the supposition you'd like to go with. >> you keep putting words into my mouth. i'm not saying that. >> you started it. >> as far as i'm aware, there is no eyewitness that has seen trayvon martin, an eyewitness that saw trayvon martin land the first blow, is there? >> sir, i will tell you there is evidence that will come out in a court of law, that will be admissible that will show this. let's stop litigating it. do you have another question for us? he wasn't arrested that night because based on the police investigation they didn't find probable cause to arrest him. that's what happened. is there another question that you have? >> one final question. very important sirk elcircles. i think the pair of you telling me that i'm trying to convict your client is a massive misreading of the truth. i'm trying to get to the truth. do you expect george zimmerman to be arrested imminently? >> no. what is imminently? how soon is that? >> in the next few days, next couple of weeks? >> i would say certainly not in the next few days. >> right. but is there anyone expectation that at some stage george zimmerman will be arrested on your side? >> if the grand jury hears all the evidence that we know to exist and they apply the law as it exists in florida, then he will not be arrested in the next few days or weeks or ever. they'll make the determination that all of the evidence, forensic and otherwise, is consistent with his explanation of self-defense. that's what florida law calls for. it doesn't call for arrest them and make them prove their innocence in court. >> i understand that, but as far as british law is concerned, if this had happened in britain, there would be no stand your ground defense and he would have been arrested. i'm more comfortable with the way we do things. but gentlemen, thank you very much for your time. >> sure. >> when we get back, i'll get to trayvon martin's reaction to that extraordinary encounter. 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[ male announcer ] bayer advanced aspirin enters the bloodstream fast, and rushes extra strength relief to the sight of your pain. feel better? yeah...thanks for the tip! but when she got asthma, all i could do was worry ! specialists, lots of doctors, lots of advice... and my hands were full. i couldn't sort through it all. with unitedhealthcare, it's different. we have access to great specialists, and our pediatrician gets all the information. everyone works as a team. and i only need to talk to one person about her care. we're more than 78,000 people looking out for 70 million americans. that's health in numbers. unitedhealthcare. >> i believe that george zimmerman hunted my son like an ap mal, tried to detain my son. my son tried to get away, and because he could not detain my son, an altercation ensued and my son was shot and killed. >> trayvon martin's mother told me last week about what she thinks happened the night her son was killed. ben krump, attorney for the martin family. i'm sure you were listening there to my interview with the two attorneys for george zimmerman. it got heated. some strange supposition on their side that i was trying to convict george zimmerman. i'm just trying to get to the truth. when you listened to what they said, what was your reaction? >> well, obviously, they did not want to look at the facts that have been released by the police department, the fact that it is highly unusual that someone can kill someone in cold blood and that person not be armed and george zimmerman has a nine millimeter gun. even the 911 call, there are several facts that are going to come into this trial. if george zimmerman, this armed vigilante is arrested for killing trayvon martin. the problem is, he has not been arrested. they talk about trying it in the media and have him cry on some rallies, i submit to you, had it not been for the nationwide outrage, his death would have been swept under the rug. when tracy martin called me, i believe in my heart of hearts, i told them, you don'