here is a question that you don't normally hear a candidate get asked that one of his final campaign stops before a presidential debate. >> are you worried about going to jail? >> no. >> are you worried about going to jail? that's a fair question. after all, the debate is on thursday and trump 'sentencing is exactly two weeks after that. let's hear the answer. >> no i'm not worried at all we have a corrupt group of people. it is really working out. we just got the highest poll numbers we ever had. they cheat so much 10 points is not enough. we need to get more. if we don't win the country is finished. >> allow me to translate. if we don't win then i'm worried about going to prison. he should be worried. as serious as the trump convictions are the more serious are still hanging out there. for all of this talk about a corrupt system he's getting a lot of help for now. take a look at exhibit a. after judge aileen canon was assigned to the classified documents case, two of her more experience colleagues asked her to hand it off to a more experienced judge. she refused. then she has exhibited hostility to prosecutors, handled pretrial motions slowly and indefinitely postponed the trial. it's almost as if the judges that encouraged her to decline the case knew how this would play out. judge cannon has proven herself to be so biased in his favor she is effectively putting the prosecution on trial. on friday she heard a challenge by the defense team claiming that special counsel jack smith's appointment was unconstitutional. if that argument sounds far- fetched to you you would not be wrong. as many legal experts would tell you it is the kind of longshot challenge that would be thrown out by any other judge. it is without basis in law. it's without precedent, and it has been shot down by similar judges in many other cases. apparently judge cannon just had to have a hearing about it. it is the last delay tactic from a judge who has wasted countless months on frivolous motions. she saw but refused to allow the case to go to trial and still has not even set a date for the trial to begin. when it comes to the help trump is getting from the bench right now, that is exhibit a. but then there is exhibit b which, of course, is the supreme court. it's been two months since the court heard oral arguments on the additional -- ridiculous claim of presidential immunity. now there is just one week left before the end of the term and there is still no decision. sure, they have a lot on the docket and we understand that, but they have a pretty straightforward question in front of them. is a president above the law? it is a question they have answered the for. in 1974, president richard nixon made a similar argument at the height of the watergate scandal. he did not want to turn over those secret papers he had. a judge told him he had to. when the issue was made to the supreme court the justices set a rapid timeline, they gave each party 21 days to file briefs and 10 days to respond. the court been scheduled oral arguments for one week later. then they issued the unanimous decision against the president just 16 days after that. that is a total of 54 days. less than half the time that this current bench has taken since agreeing to hear the appeal. we are still waiting. now not only have judge cannon and the justices on the supreme court lost the benefit of the doubt, the american people have all but certainly lost the ability to see these cases go to trial before the november election. so they can make an informed decision when they go to vote. remember, trump is a guy that claims the system is raked against him. starting us off today former general counsel at the fbi andrew wiseman and legal correspondent lisa rubin. welcome to you both. let's just start with you and the new reporting from the times. i do not think i've heard anybody answer this aspect of the case. how unusual is it for a judge to ask another judge to give up the case? in this case two judges waiting and said to stand down. >> it is extremely unusual to have judges ask a judge to stand down. the reporting is that it is the chief judge of the district who would have that kind of responsibility, would feel that sort of obligation. it would not be for political reasons. it would be the fact that the judge is quite inexperienced for a case of this nature. of course, her inexperience showed because she was reversed not once but twice by the 11th circuit in the pretrial phase. that inexperience is showing even if you just thought there was no bias which i think there's lots of evidence for. it even if you thought in terms of inexperience, she has more pretrial motions backed up. we are in the height of the summer. a good way to think about this is like laguardia airport on a holiday weekend with flames stacked up on the tarmac waiting to take off. she has so many pretrial motions pending that she has not gotten to. instead of saying, i really need help doing this. i could get a magistrate or other judges , she's not doing any of that. she's keeping all of it on her docket. she has not scheduled it and she says the reason i cannot schedule the trial is because i have not gotten to all of that work. >> it is absolutely amazing to me, lisa in the sense that you have judge cannon who seemingly is spending a lot of time scrutinizing everyone else and every other aspect of this trial except the defendant himself whose accused of illegally retaining classified documents. what are we missing here? >> i don't think you are missing very much at all. in fact, one of the things that has folks like me scratching our heads is in terms of how she is allocating her time to the backlog of motions andrew was just discussing, for example she gave almost 2 full days to the question of whether jack smith was lawfully appointed. when he went to her and said, we need to modify the bail conditions because his speech is threatening the safety of people involved in the investigation she said literally, you can have two hours this coming tuesday. the fact that she is allocating her time in the way that she is given the gravity of the situation, jack smith's office just told her the other day we need you to modify these conditions because there was a real threat aimed at an fbi official on june 11. this is not speculative or conjecture. this is eminent and real and how is she spending her time? thinking about whether jack smith was lawfully appointed in ways that the supreme court and two circuit courts in recent years have already considered and rejected ticket is baffling. >> baffling is an understatement when it comes to the actions of this particular judge. there is also a hearing tomorrow that will deal with jack smith's request for a gag order. given the fact that trump has been making these false claims that the fbi was out to kill him , help us understand exactly what this is that we are watching unfold here. this sounds like there is something else going on that a posse of significant, imminent foreseeable danger to law enforcement is his argument while donald trump is saying, they were coming to get me. how can judge cannon justify not taking action on this aspect of it? >> i think here she is playing with fire. there are two motions pending having to do with donald trump's statements that can lead to imminent danger. one is a new york related to the gag order there. the other is before judge cannon. this is one as lisa pointed out, the judge has been so cavalier in the way she's handled this, the timing of it, delaying having a hearing, rejecting the filing that was made on the ground that there was not sufficient conferral with the other side. that is the kind of actions that if she rejects this application it will be something that i think jack smith will feel obligated to take to the 11th circuit. remember, that circuit has already overruled judge cannon twice in scathing language. if she does this again here, she has to know that that kind of behavior and disrespect for safety of law enforcement is precisely the kind of thing jack smith will feel obligated to take up on appeal and is the kind of thing that could really get her, depending on the panel, but the judges sitting on the matter in the 11th circuit could really get her in hot water. it could not be more serious. it's the reason you see judges like in new york taking such serious steps to make sure that the former president of the united states is not endangering people who are just doing their jobs. >> the final point to you, lisa. there's a lot of frustration across the country with all of this watching judge cannon slow roll this trial. you watch the supreme court slow roll the decision on presidential immunity. a lot of americans feel there is no recourse. we are sitting back watching this play out. put that in context for us if you can. you've done excellent reporting and coverage on this from the very beginning. i have a feel for how this is translating for a lot of the american people outside of the bubble of either side. you know the trump world and those that want to see him go down. real people out there are concerned about how this is laying out. >> real people i definitely concern. one of the things real people are seeing is that delay is the decision in some cases. the delay occasioned by the supreme court not taking jack smith's invitation to have an appeal directly on presidential immunity but instead hold it off till the dc circuit acted and then not expediting the briefing but really taking their time or judge cannon slow walking the motions that continue to pile up before her. that in and of itself constitutes a real decision. i think the other things that these people are concerned about his lifetime tenure. you cannot appeal delay nor can you ask for recusal based on delay alone. the 11th circuit has recently been integrated -- inundated with complaints from people who said you should remove her on the case based on the fact that she's failing to take action. the chief judge of the circuit said, delay is not, under our rules, the basis for getting somebody off the case. i think the american people, if they are concerned about these kinds of delay, they are the ones who can take action. only their choices at the ballot box can start to reverse some of what we see as delay actually resulting in almost a decision in the former president's favor. the only way to reverse this is for the people to take action and elect a president who will appoint judges who will consider the role of law and take it seriously. >> we are at a point talking about presidents appointing judges who would consider the role of law. it tells you a lot about the times. andrew and lisa, think you very much. coming up, damning recordings of donald trump taken by the author of a new book about his time on the apprentice. we are just days away from the first presidential debate. let's just say, the two candidates are preparing a little bit differently. jennifer and molly are standing by to help us out. they will join me after a quick break. we will be right back. back. t—- get two pairs of progressives for just $129.95. offer includes a comprehensive eye exam. book an exam online today. when my doctor gave me breztri for my copd things changed for me. breztri gave me better breathing, symptom improvement, and reduced flare-ups. breztri won't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. it is not for asthma. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. don't take breztri more than prescribed. breztri may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain occur. ask your doctor about breztri. [introspective music] recipes. recipes that are more than their ingredients. ♪ [smoke alarm] recipes written by hand and lost to time... can now be analyzed and restored using the power of dell ai. preserving memories and helping to write new ones. ♪ known for following your dreams. known for keeping with tradition. known for discovering new places. no one wants to be known for cancer, but a treatment can be. keytruda is known to treat cancer. fda-approved for 17 types of cancer, including certain early-stage and advanced cancers. one of those cancers is early-stage non-small cell lung cancer. keytruda may be used with certain chemotherapies before surgery when you have early-stage lung cancer, which can be removed by surgery, and then continued alone after surgery to help prevent your lung cancer from coming back. keytruda can cause your immune system to attack healthy parts of your body during or after treatment. this may be severe and lead to death. see your doctor right away if you have cough, shortness of breath, chest pain, diarrhea, severe stomach pain, severe nausea or vomiting, headache, light sensitivity, eye problems, irregular heartbeat, extreme tiredness, constipation, dizziness or fainting, changes in appetite, thirst, or urine, confusion, memory problems, muscle pain or weakness, fever, rash, itching, or flushing. there may be other side effects. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions, including immune system problems, if you've had or plan to have an organ, tissue, or stem cell transplant, received chest radiation or have a nervous system problem. keytruda is an immunotherapy and is also being studied in hundreds of clinical trials exploring ways to treat even more types of cancer. it's tru. keytruda from merck. see all the types of cancer keytruda is known for at keytruda.com and ask your doctor if keytruda could be right for you. here's to getting better with age. here's to beating these two every thursday. help fuel today with boost high protein, complete nutrition you need... ...without the stuff you don't. so, here's to now. boost. with just a few days until the first presidential debate, we are seeing new evidence that donald trump's felony conviction is having an effect. despite what fox news tells their audience days in and day out their own poll released shows president biden leading trump by two points. the bond is thanks in part to an 11 point swing among independent voters from just the last month. it looks like the felony conviction does matter to voters. it also sparked big fundraising for trump. since the verdict, the maga faithful have opened their wallets allowing trump and the rnc to overcome bidens cash advantage. so poll movement in favor of haydn and cashman met in favor of trump. those seem to be the trendlines for right now. thursday's debate could shake things up. that could be the first opportunity to get a clear and rob you of these candidates and the potential choice they have to make this november. biden and his team appear to be taken the opportunity rather seriously, approaching the debate like cramming for a final. while trump and his campaign have offered for informal policy sessions, probably with a little something on the side. trump and his allies are trying to soften the blow in the event biden performs well. they have spent the last few weeks baselessly claiming that the president will use performance-enhancing drugs. seriously. they said that. for those who may not remember, it's the exact same accusation the trump team leveled at hillary clinton in 2016. they are just recycling the same old smear. >> is anybody going to watch the debate? he's going to be so pumped up. >> he's going to be all hyped up , hyper caffeinated, whatever it is. >> you will need to go see him and juice him. >> why is there so much more pep? >> i will demand a drug test. i don't want him coming in like the state of the union. a little before debate time he gets a shot in the . i say he will come out all jacked up. >> crafts, but we all know that. when you need to feel like you have to spout off conspiracies and stay -- say stuff like that you are probably not feeling too confident about your own team and your own game and the guy you are putting out front. we will talk about that now with former communications director for president obama jennifer paul mary and special correspondent for vanity fair and host of the fast politics podcast molly john fast. let's start with you. you have been in the heart of campaigns. let's break this down a little bit. for trump and his supporters, joe biden is both people and told him can't put things together and cannot communicate but also is now taking performance-enhancing super drugs. am i wrong to think that lowering the bar the way that they are trying to do right now is probably not going to be the best strategy for them? >> the problem is that they have spent years lowering the bar for bidens appearances and abilities. it's not so much something to be concerned about on the trump side. they are hearing him, for independence and the 10% of voters that are still undecided, they are probably not watching trump rallies but they are seeing things online that are manufactured or edited or doctored that appear to show biden not doing so well. when they see him in real life at the debate stage as he was, at the state of the union with that kind of energy and that sort of fight. he is really good at going back and forth with the audience. aside from trump he is happy to engage with them. i think what will hurt trump is the fact that they have spent months whispering to the general populace trying to tell them that biden is not in good a shape as he is. >> i think that dynamic is underrated in terms of how it will land on thursday. molly, i think that feeds into so much of what trump is about. he's about taking a hand of sloppy and nasty spaghetti and throwing it on the wall. he wants to see what is going to stick. do you expect that type of behavior and effort by trump on thursday? or will he come in and try to be presidential? >> [laughter] it's not even nasty spaghetti. it's recycled spaghetti. these are the same things he said about hillary clinton. the idea that hillary clinton was taking speed and now joe biden is making -- taking speed. i don't know any drug. i have a parent with dementia. there's no drug you can get them to make them normal. that is not a thing. the whole idea here, the whole fantasy is completely beyond the pale. also what is good about the debate is that biden world really made sure to get what they wanted because trump will never stop talking they have muted microphones. you will -- biden will actually have time to speak which i think is really important. they did a really smart job with the way they negotiated this. the reality is more people see trump the more they remember what it was like and the million people who died of covid and the bread lines, the cars lined up. that stuff may not have been directly trump's fault but it was when he was president. >> that is a good point. my cohost and i on the weekend had an interesting interview with the president of the heritage foundation. i want to play a bit of that interview. we talked about immigration. let's take a listen. >> we need to have the biggest mass deportation system in the history of america because it is -- because it is unjust that more than 10 million illegal aliens have come to the country. >> what are these people doing now? >> a lot of them are committing crimes like murdering a 12-year- old girl in houston. >> so that is one out of 11 million. >> it is no question that immigration will come up at the debate on thursday. from a communications perspective, how would you advise the president to talk about an issue that republicans are very eager to emotionally charge their base with and to wrap around the president as a weight as opposed to recognizing the fact that they actually stopped the one reform that could change the whole nature of the situation at the border. >> there was a solut