just for the summations now, you can't bring the president there for the whole trial because people say, well, doesn't he have better things to do than sit here for a week, but for summations for a few hours, it would not have been inappropriate to do that's interesting. >> so you think a president biden being in there would have been helpful? i'm sure that discussion was had between the biden family and abbe lowell and they decided against it. >> and i can understand there are reasons to decide against it, but if you do bring the president there, it does show respect for the system that he's there sitting as a father interested in the fate of his son, but he's not there. and you would have to acknowledge it. he's not there as the president of the united states he's there as the father of hunter biden? >> yeah. >> i mean, it is remarkable. abbe lowell going 90 minutes today with the jury was closing their eyes and some points. is that a bad sign look, it's it's not great, but you can't read too much into that. >> yeah. >> we're not us to bill, we will be waiting to see if there is verdict tomorrow. thank you for joining us tonight. thank you all so much for joining us, as well as we continue to monitor all the news here at cnn, seen a news night with abby phillip starts right now the donald trump, his rally diehards that's tonight on these good evening. i'm abby phillip in new york, another american first, the convicted former president who is now running to oversee the country. again just met with his probation officer in just moments i'll speak with abc news anchor and former clinton white house insider george steph monopolists will get some unique insights into what a second trump term may look like but first, a play-by-play of what donald trump said in las vegas let's set the scene for you. the heat spiral 200 degrees. six people were sent to the hospital two dozen others were treated at the scene call it the heat or donald trump feeling hot under the collar. but the content of this rally vero wildly into topic after topic. now, some that actually might matter to you the voter, and others that matter to donald trump. and maybe no one else. so here is an incomplete sampling of what you heard. if you happen to have stood in that rally and sweated through all of it starting with a joke about voters i don't want anybody going on me. we need every voter. i don't care about you. i just want your vote. i don't care these are the range that dumb guy is that dumb son of a he's a corrupt, very dumb person. he's a low iq individual, is just something missing and there always has been this guy just hit enter, it goes to the beach the time somebody thinks it looks good in a bathing said, i don't think so and he has that little chair that weighs about like seven ounces. it's been so children can lift it and very old people can lifted. and you know what he's not old he's incompetent. it's weak, it's in ineffective, it's both. >> what he signed they're totally destroying our black population. >> they're totally destroying are hispanic population. i pay all this money to teleprompter people and i'd say 20% of the time, they don't work. i don't pay contractors that do a job and that's a job that's a job you can't read all right what would happen if the boat sank from his weight and you're in the boat and you have this tremendously powerful battery. >> and the battery is now under the water. and there's a shark that's approximately ten yards over there by the way, a lot of shark attacks lately did notice that those j6 warriors, they were worries, but they were really more than anything else. they are victims of what happened. all they were doing is protesting a rigged election that's what they were doing. and then the police say go and go in, go in water, set-up. that was what a horrible, horrible thing. and you know, that blows two ways. if we win nevada we win the whole thing. i hope the military revolt set the voting booth and just says we're not going to take it. he should take a drug test because i'm willing to take 20 me now is george stuff annapolis, abc news anchor he is a veteran of the clinton white house, and he's also the author of a brand new book, the situation room, the inside story of presidents in crisis. george, it's great to have you on in this book it chronically on avy, it critical six decades of crisis management from the situation room a place that you know well from your time in the white house, one of the interesting things is also these interviews with officers who were in the situation room on january 6. this is at a time now when trump is actively running to be back in the white house, and fundamentally change how the government works, how the so-called deep state works. did you hear any concerns from these duty officers about what a second trump term would mean for the kind of continuity that the national security apparatus has relied on for all these years. >> absolutely i mean, duty officers and others who served in the trump administration worried that the institutions would crumble. >> i spoke with them. >> wait us situation duty officer named mike stigler, who is actually on-point on january 6, and he said people have to understand how close we came to losing the vice president at the time. >> and he was horrified by this also horrified by the fact that he and his fellow officers in the situation room that they had to start implementing the continuity of government procedures which were designed to make sure that the government survives a nuclear attack. they were put into place on that day because of the threat to our institutions on that day as one of course, president trump famously never called down the situation room even once all during january 6. and you know, you talk about it's not just how close we came to watching our institutions crumble that day the ongoing threat is real. i mean, look at what happened just saturday night in las vegas when the president, former president uk, called the january convicted felons from january 6, those who rioted on january 6 and tried to block the peaceful transfer our he called them warriors who are somehow set up by the police. he's called them hostages. he's called them patriots. he's promising to pardon them. he's not promising to divide by the results of the next election. so this, this pass thread is very real right now have you ever seen, i mean, in your research and your time in government anyone run for office, really running against the very government that they are supposed to be? >> overseeing absolutely unprecedented abbe absolutely unprecedented. >> we have never had a former president or a presidential candidate who refuses to accept the peaceful transfer of power, who refused to say but he will buy by the constitution who's been indicted. and impeached for trying to block the peaceful transfer of power that is something that is absolutely fundamental to our democracy is one of the things that's made our democracy work for over 200 years. the idea the simple fact that the former president continues to lie about the, about the last election that he did, whatever he could on that data block, the peaceful transfer of power is absolutely unprecedented in all of our history and you, on your show on this week, you've had some of these trump vp short listers on there some of the other hosts of this week have also had them on. >> i want to just play a little bit of what they've been saying on television of late i think there were problems in 2020. >> yes, i do. do i think it was a problem that big technology companies working with the intelligence services sensor, the presidential campaign of donald trump? yes governors, governor you, you have said the election should wasn't stolen and you're supporting someone who says it was well, i know that we've got certainly we've got irregularities do you get the sense that this is one of the requirements to be on that shortlist you don't get the sense it's out there is plain as day. >> i actually talked to senator jd vance who is reportedly on the shortlist. as well. and every indication he gave was that he would do the same thing that mike pence, that he would not do what mike pence did in 2000 i mean, it's certainly seems to have become a requirement for those who are running to accept president trump's lie. former president trump's lie about the last election to suggest that he did nothing wrong. now on january 6, to say that somehow that is not an important issue at this point. and to suggest that it was actually vice president pence who did the wrong thing in 2020 i mean, this is just again, this is astonishing. we've never really had a former prison isn't it run before? whose own vice president refuses to endorse him because of the actions he took on those days. >> yeah. yeah. i mean, that alone has says maybe it says it all as a journalist, when you have these potential vp, a candidates on the show, you've had them on, we've had them on the show here. they rarely, if ever for concede ground this seems to be also another litmus test for how to be in maga world. i mean, is this the new reality for this this maga era of politicians that they don't back down when they're confronted with fats perhaps it is, but i think that's, that poses a test for all of us in journalism as well. i've made it a point if they will not accept those facts, i don't go on to other issues. i'm not going to go to participate in some kind of a sham where you somehow equate the legitimacy of an election or the peaceful transfer of power with a debate over tax cuts or environmental regulation. if you can't pass that fundamental threshold of saying yes, the last election was not stolen two, i will abide by the results of the next election then i think that's all voters and viewers need to know. i don't think if you're willing to lie about something as big as that, why should anything else they want to talk about be given any credence it's such an important point. >> i mean, we've got a vice presidential debate coming up right here on cnn. i later this month as a journal phyllis does american what do you think is the most important question that needs to be answered from both candidates who won the last election yeah, very simple. yeah. and won the last election. >> let's just let's let's discuss and debate. and we'll see, i mean, luck, week. it's been asked by donald trump. he refuses to answer it correctly, but we'll see what he does when he's given that opportunity in front of 140 million people it says it's a little bit different than on a stage like that. >> yeah, i when it's an actual debate, but that's it's a real test. >> i do want to play a little bit of what the vice president kamala harris has been saying, actually, on this very point, i mean, she seems to really be taking this issue on head-on. >> donald. trump openly tried to overturn the last election and now he openly attacks the foundations of our justice system. >> cheaters don't like getting caught it's a different tone than we've seen from harb, but it also speaks to that question that you just raised if trump doesn't pass the truth test on that issue, is there room for the biden administration to even move on to some of the other stuff, maybe the bread and butter issues, maybe the economy do you think that they are? settling on this idea of a character test for donald trump on this issue. >> president president kennedy, i have to do it all, but i mean, i think that is the threshold question of this election. certainly the biden campaign is going to have to address voters concerns about the economy, voters concerns that inflation, those are important as well, but it it is fundamental, as i said, at the start part the very question of whether or not you accept election results, whether you accept the peaceful transfer of power, that is an absolutely fundamental issue that people should be confirmed runaway as they go to make their choice in november when it comes to the potential of a trump administration. >> i mean, what do you think his conduct on january 6 tells you about what he might do next? not just around the election, but just in general he's saying what he would do next. he says that every single day he says he would pardon what he calls the january 6 hostages. he's talked about retribution using his justice department as an as an arm of retribution. he's talked openly about dropping the prosecutions against themselves. that's an active obstruction of justice in and of itself. it's no secret when president trump says he wants to do something, we should take a minute as word george steph, novelist. >> thank you very much. again, george's book, the situation room is out right now next breaking news about trump's legal issues here. what happened inside of his meeting with eight probation officer ahead of his sentencing? thanks. plus one of trump's allies gets a new mug shot. will discuss with rudy giuliani is biographer and the former president says that he stands side-by-side with the group that wants to eradicate abortion. did he just give democrats another flash, flash point in this race? this is new sayyed get back i voted buttons. >> i netting dragging my every meal kit. >> why no donkeys or elephants scams? alice thing says, so it's like your generation has evolved past traditional political symbols. and there's room for everyone, kind of like my podcast on cnn. yeah, plus chins, puke rainbows, white, taken billy the kid, it's trying to take over the town what it needs is cleaning up. they've appointed a new sheriff pat garrett, mean something to you? >> sure. does know, use the really really nice your job to haunt them down a lot isn't takes you can win. >> this ain't a game for me it was had trouble losing weight and keeping same discover the power of week-old in the my janan the gobi. >> i lost 35 pounds as some lost the war, 46 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no other the now convicted former president did, as other helens, do he met with a probation officer prior to sentencing, but that's where the similarities stop. at the differences get real. >> trump got to have his lawyer, todd blanche in the room, a special accommodation not afforded then to the average defendant and it's one of the few notable examples of how the legal system really bent over backwards for trump, where it would not have for others, ten contempt violations normally merit more than just a fine. >> nobel restrictions for a defendant of his means. also, an anomaly carefully choreographed search of his home to spare them from having cameras capture agents of the lawn of the law wearing fbi jackets. that's a nicety really given to no one else joining me now are robert gray who was counseled to then president trump during is first impeachment. and dante mills, he's a civil and criminal attorney and a law professor at temple this leaves school of law, dante, this probation hearing lasted about 30 minutes. we're told what kind of information are they trying to get from trump. >> let's just walk through. everybody understands the purpose of this and why they do it most times, judges don't know the defendant these trials happen. normally their day or two. the judge doesn't get to know the person they're going to have to sentence. so what you do is you have an investigating officer come in, ask questions about the person's background, get an understanding of who they are, where they come from, who their family is, what kind to jobs they have. and then they present a report to the judge who says, based on this report it's going to influence my decision one way or the other, or it won't because it's pretty standard so it happens to everybody, but we do it to a former president of the united states. everybody knows who he is already. so it's not necessary. i don't think in this case, but you have to go through the process of why why have his lawyer present? >> i mean what's the concern there are the on trump's part. i don't know so about new york state practice, but i will say in federal practice is actually typical to have a lawyer present during the pre-sentence interview. in fact, it's almost always ordered by the judge upon request of the defense. >> them from saying anything that might hurt them. >> right. particular well, not so much that but particularly in a case that goes to trial where the defendant has an appeal. i think the concern always is to not talk about the quote, unquote, instant offense, meaning the offense of conviction because you might say something there that potentially could jeopardize. and i think everything else. and so that's why the lawyer often the lawyer is there to just simply she and i've done hundreds of these essentially two let me handle the discussions as your lawyer with the probation officer about the offensive fine line between wanting your client to be forthcoming and not be obstructive against the person trying to get information, but also not crossing the line is saying, but i did this or slipping up is saying something that can be used against them, being obstructive to the person trying to get information is definitely something i would be worried about with trump. i mean, just in general that judge merchan is going to weigh who is donald trump, which everybody knows to a certain degree, but also the lack of remorse here, frankly, in this case, i mean, ultimately, how does that all come together to influence the judge's decision and sentence? >> i think the judge knows what he's going to do, but he'll get this regard. i think he's already made up his mind, but he'll get this report and he'll see what's in this report and he may use that to justify something if he wants to put trump in jail, he'll say well, trump wasn't forthcoming. look at this report. he didn't even provide this information if he wants to give them probation, he'll say, well trump was he was cooperating with this investigator. so