some serious concessions from democrats. >> we have over $50 trillion in unfunded liabilities. all of them are unsustainable. we need to raise the debt ceiling -- both short term, medium term and long term. that's what it would take to get my vote. >> will cain is a cnn contributor. secretary geithner said not raising the debt ceiling would be catastrophic for the economy. he concedes no one knows for certain in the event that it's not raised. are republicans willing to risk sending this fragile recovery that we're in into chaos to find out if they're right? >> no. but neither are democrats. let me tell you why i'm so certain about this. the debt ceiling has been raised 74 times since 1962. second, the consequences for not raising the debt ceiling are dire and everyone knows it. i have my prop here. the issue is, if we don't raise the debt ceiling, the government cannot issue new debt. the problem is we take in 60 cents for every dollar we spent. we spend 40% more than we take in. at that point, the government has a choice to make -- not pay the interest on your current debt, which amounts to a default. how would the markets react to that? >> that's bad. >> we think so. currently the u.s. is used as the safe haven. would markets continue -- we don't know. the second choice is even more scary to me. that is if we choose not, we have to cut spending by 40%. that comes from social security, medicare -- >> that's a big, big cut. >> it's a huge number. >> where does your arrow go after that if you do that? >> it goes to depression. i want to cut government spending but i don't want to do it overnight. if you have to cut spending by 40%, you're looking at a 10% contraction in the economy. you're looking at depression. that's a pretty clear choice. >> that's not exactly what we're hearing from a lot of other conservatives. gloria gorborger is with us. 60% of americans say they oppose raising the debt ceiling, just 37% would be in favor of raising it. that would seem to bolster the republican argument that they want severe cuts in exchange for their vote to raise that credit limit. let's say the debt ceiling is not raised and the u.s. does, as will postulates, possibly default on some of its payments. are the consequences as dire as secretary geithner warns? is the public going to blame republicans who voted no or democrats who wouldn't girlfriend them the cuts? what's going to happen? >> the public will blame everyone. i think first of all the congress, and that means democrats, republicans and also the president of the united states needs to go out there as the secretary of the treasury has and explain what the consequences are. it's very clear from looking at that poll that people may be saying debt ceiling, we don't want to pay more money -- they're not quite sure. >> you're right about that. >> part of the burden of leadership is explaining these things. but i would also say that this is really a test of leadership because when you look back at votes on the debt ceiling, they're always political votes. go back to 2006. none other than barack obama and his fellow senate democrats, 2004, unanimously, all house democrats voted against it. why? george bush was in power. so this again is another test. and if it doesn't get done and there are real problems in the economy, then the american public will turn very quickly and blame all of the members of congress and the president. >> christia freeman is joining us. no one's been able to explain what happens if we don't make those payments. let's go back to september 14th, 2008. a whole lot of smart people sat around a table and said, it's not going to be all that bad if we let lehman brothers collapse. we didn't know what the consequences were either. you are a global financial journalist. what happens? >> this isn't something we need to debate that much. it is absolutely clear if the u.s. defaults on its debt, that's a catastrophic event for america and for the global economy. that is a moment when people stop having faith in the u.s. government and they should stop having faith in fact u.s. government. the u.s. government wouldn't be paying its credit tors. so new creditors are not going to be knocking on america's door. if they do come in, they will require much, much higher rates of interest. >> for viewers out there, that's how it afghanistan you. if the u.s. pays more to borrow money, you pay more for your mortgages, your companies and employers pay more to borrow money. that tends to give them less available cash to hire people. >> and you would have to pay higher taxes. right now, the trick -- america actually is in a fabulous position in the global economy because even though america has very high debt, it is being charged very, very low rates of interest by the rest of the world. >> because our credit is thought to be very good. >> but republicans want to get something out of this. and in a way, i don't blame them. they're saying, you want our votes to raise the debt ceiling, mr. president, fine, how about dollar for dollar we talk about spending cuts? mitch mcconnell was talking about some grand bargain on entitlements. i don't think they're going to get that. but i do think you are going to get substantial deficit reduction or promises of deficit reduction. >> will, this is not the last word or the last debate on how to cut spending. so if you are a conservative, if you are a fiscal conservative, if you are a republican and you really believe strongly that there need to be cuts, like many americans do, we have the 2012 budget to discuss. we've got until october to sort that out. why are some republicans picking this as the fight and not that, which is really the place to have this discussion? >> i've said to it you before. democrats have shown no willingness to cut at any point in time. it's like you have to put them in this emergency to make decisions. in the end, this is barely worth a debate because it is going to be raised. it is that clear to everyone what the problems r. here's the perfect metaphor. in "braveheart," the two battles look at each other like they're about to shed all kinds of blood. and the young soldier says, what's going to happen? h older guy says, the noble wills negotiate and we'll go home. that's going to happen here. >> we've been talking about if america defaults, you would see higher interest rates charged to the u.s. government. that's true. what we don't know but what we can predict with high probability is you could plunge the world into a new financial -- >> it may not happen but there's some chance that it could happen. >> i have to tell you, there are 80 freshmen republicans, 60 of whom have never held elected office before. and some of them are saying, i'm not sure it's going to be so terrible. these are the people that john boehner has to talk to. for some of these people, it's not negotiating talk. but it is the burden of leadership right now because john boehner runs the house of representatives. >> and boehner and cantor aren't freshmen. gloria, great to talk to you. coming up next, the other most important economic issue facing americans today. is it being ignored as a result of all of this focus on the deficit? 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[ horn honks ] i hear it from some of you every day, i'm out of work, i need a job. it doesn't get a lot more complicated than that when you ask americans why they believe that unemployment is the most important economic issue today. unemployment tops the list of the most important issues. it's at 38%. 10% more, by the way, than the number of people who say the federal deficit is the most important economic issue. will cain is still with us. i want to bring in bob herbert. let's look at this. we both know the unemployment rate is a bit of a red herring. it's at 9%. is washington koidoing everythi it can to create the right environment to create jobs? the government does set the tone. >> it does set the tone. i don't think the government is doing enough. the big problem right now, especially with all the talk about deficits is you lose sight of the need for investments if you're actually going to create large numbers of jobs. it costs money, but it's not wasted money. it's not money just poured into a ditch. it's money that ultimately would bring a return. right now, there doesn't seem to be much political sentiment in favor of the kinds of investments we need. >> that word "investment" sometimes triggers people to think spending and they want to know what the return on that investment was and they point to the stimulus and say, did it create as many jobs as it was supposed to? john boehner wants trillions of dollars in spending cuts. he wants as much in cuts as they're prepared to increase the debt limit. he also claims to want to help those who continue to struggle in this economy. listen to his words. >> i think america has a strong safety net for those who live near the bottom of our economy. and i think that we should. i'm a big believer that in a country like ours, those who have the opportunity to succeed and do succeed have a responsibility to help those who can't compete. >> a lot of respect for a guy like john boehner who's a small businessman. he's sort of self-made. where is that safety net? the republicans voted against extending unemployment benefits unless they got a hold on tax increases. we have these groups called the 99ers who are now unemployable. where the the safety net and where should it be? >> i don't know if the conservatives or the republicans better said have the answer to that. but i don't think the democrats do either. bob's characterization was, i don't know that we're doing enough. i don't know that we're doing the right things. the things that we invest in are welfare largely for the middle class. medicare, social security. these are programs designed to help people be comfortable, not to innovate. if we were to invest and create this social safety met for the poor, truly for the poor, i think we need to start looking beyond things like affordable housing or unemployment benefits and start looking at investing in things like education. fareed zakaria said for every $4 we spend on the elderly, we spend $1 on kids. >> right. bob, he says education, which i fully agree with. retraining because we have a very large population that are just not trained for the jobs that we need them to be trained for and innovation which would be tax credits. >> this is not an issue on which we disagree because when i talk about investments, i was specifically talking about investments that ultimately would create large numbers of jobs. that would include investments in education. i think we should have a tremendous investment in infrastructure and certainly on innovation. so that's moving in a direction that i'm in favor of. >> we can't do everything. so we have to cut back on some of those comfortable welfare benefits for the middle class. >> some of the problems on the hill right now, i don't think it's possible -- i don't think it's workable. one, tax cuts -- tax hikes are off the table. that's one thing. and they want cuts that are going to bring down the deficits while at the same time saying that we have to maintain a safety net. so that requires spending. i just don't think that that adds up. you can't do that. >> take a 50-year-old man who was an auto worker in the rust belt, in a place -- some sort of factory worker, in a place where the factory, the town has almost shut down. there aren't jobs in the area. they can't sell their house. maybe the kids are not going to college. we keep telling people there are open jobs in this country. that person has to become either an accountant or a software worker or a medical worker or a truck driver, work in the energy industry. but how does that person, my viewer, get from unemployment and trained from the wrong thing into employment? >> i don't have the answer to that, nor does bob no matter what he says. >> what about this? what can government do to encourage the ability to get that person retrained and into a job? >> we have to use abstract words like retrain, educate older people. the problem is in the end, i don't know that the government can or should be the person who figures out how that man transitions into an entire economy that's transitions. the whole economy is moving from an economy that has a spectrum of jobs from low wage, low skill to high. we're phasing out of those. >> let me answer your question. i've been going around the country interviewing these 50-somethings. there's nothing that can be done for them right now given the current situation. they're falling out of the labor force. they're not even being counted as unemployed. they're taking early retirement when they can. they're going on disability. those roles are increasing. i don't think you can retrain them for these other jobs you're talking about. >> put them on welfare for 30 years? >> no. i think we should have a massive infrastructure rebuilding effort in this country. and those people who have been working in manufacturing for years, who have been working in construction, construction got killed in the recession, they have skills that you could put to work in rebuilding a modern infrastructure for the 21st century and the industries that we're going to be approaching going forward. >> let me say this. i'm not opposed to that if the right motive is in mind, if we need infrastructure projects. we don't need to create jobs just to create jobs. >> do you agree that we need infrastructure? >> we could stand to pour more concrete on the highways. >> it's not just roads and businesses. it's the electrical grid, it's the inland waterways. it's the ports on both sides and on the southern coast of the united states. infrastructure is in sorry shape in this country. >> if i take a nonpartisan position to invest in education and infrastructure, i have to hear from your side that you're willing to cut back on these comfortable welfare programs for the middle class, such as medicare because that's where the deficit is coming from. >> i think in the real world, you are not going to cut back sharply on medicare. i just don't think -- as a political reality? >> yeah. >> that's sad. >> we'll have to figure out a way to solve this problem. thanks very much, will and bob. one big city is becoming a hotbed for technology jobs. you might be surprised. building up our wireless network all across america. we're adding new cell sites... increasing network capacity, and investing billions of dollars to improve your wireless network experience. from a single phone call to the most advanced data download, we're covering more people in more places than ever before in an effort to give you the best network possible. at&t. rethink possible. my son and i never missed opening day. but with copd making it hard to breathe, i thought those days might be over. so my doctor prescribed symbicort. it helps significantly improve my lung function, starting within 5 minutes. symbicort doesn't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden symptoms. with symbicort, today i'm breathing better, and that means... game on! symbicort is for copd, including chronic bronchitis and emphysema. it should not be taken more than twice a day. symbicort may increase your risk of lung infections, osteoporosis, and some eye problems. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. 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[ male announcer ] if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. where are the jobs? it's a question we ask frequently on this show. but this answer might surprise you -- detroit. the motor city is seeing a technology transformation of sorts. companies like google and ford are hiring tech workers in droves. it could just be the reinvention that detroit has been waiting for. here's cnn's poppy harlow. >> people don't realize there's five times the computing power in a car than even in the most sophisticated smartphones. >> reporter: could the motor city be turning into tech city, u.s.? some say it just might be. detroit has seen an 82% increase in tech jobs in the past year at companies like ford. is there a tech job boom here, would you say? >> there is. i've never seen this much hiring in technology since i've been here. my particular group, we're going to triple over the three-year period. >> reporter: josh kitchens locked in a job with this ford tech team. >> i was offered other jobs but i chose to stay here. salary was a big part of that. >> reporter: detroit workers make an average of $71,000. >> very competitive. they want us to stay. they want to rebuild detroit. >> reporter: these michigan state engineering students all had jobs lined up before graduation. >> i chose engineering mostly for job security. >> reporter: is there also a sense of pride in wanting to sort of tell the world, hey, detroit is still here? >> definitely. come in, start up a company. there are people that need jobs badly. >> reporter: google says this will be its biggest hiring year yet in detroit. >> to come out of college and be put on a career path is amazing. >> reporter: so why has there been such a big boom in tech jobs? some people say in cities like right here in detroit, so many jobs have been lost, the only real place to go was up. >> employers, particularly in auto town, usa, are realizing they need to be more efficient with their operations. technology plays a really big part in that. >> reporter: can we call this a tech boom in detroit? >> i think i'd call it a boomlet. markets like new york city and silicon valley are certainly a little bit bigger but they're not growing as fast as detroit is anymore. >> reporter: detroit native and founder of quicken loans, dan gilbert, says his company is making some 1,200 new hires here, many in tech. >> keep our talent here. we are in a brain economy and not so much a muscle economy. >> poppy joins me now. we have spent a lot of time in detroit and sadly we've watched the erosion of jobs there. this is fantastic. but we constantly talk about engineering being your ticket anywhere you are in the country. what a great deal. they earn good money in a place that costs very little to live in. how does this help everybody else who's been laid off? the auto workers and the industries connected to -- >> that's the key. if you're an auto worker and you've been out of work for a few years in detroit and you don't have these tech skills, you're not going to get one of these jobs. but you can go through retraining, you can