in since the war started to. food prices are going up. wfp is warning now the area is on the brink of (inaudible) we're starting to see a spread of waterborne disease. that is a cocktail very familiar to humanitarians, it's what proceeds the scale of mortality in famine or humanitarian crisis. >> i want to be clear, quote the world food programme, saying eight weeks of the war is a high risk of famine for all the people of gaza, especially for those with chronic diseases, older persons, children, and those living disabilities. but the very high casualty toll, we think, again, according to statistics we have, which comes from the gaza health ministry, as many as 6000 children, possibly more, the vast majority, to my understanding, are from direct result of israeli airstrikes, bombardment, and mortars, right? you are saying there is now a real possibility of this secondary mortality. >> right. what -- you look at something like the famine in somalia in 2011 that killed people, those weren't killed in fighting. they were killed because they died from the famine, and that's what one -- >> precipitated by fighting. >> precipitated by fighting, but in that case by a drought. a shortage of food. here, the shortage of food is man-made because it is mostly imported into gaza, and that's been largely cut off since the war started. >> the israeli defense forces, the israeli army has put out these maps. they almost look like -- i don't know if we have one here, but they almost look like census trump maps. they are very finally -- they have numbers. there's a place they tell folks in gaza to go, i think, online, if i'm not mistaken, to find out what the direction is of where in this map to go. the israeli government says we are going through tremendous pains to make these very fine distinctions about what is safe, what is not, so as to avoid civilian harm. what do you think of that? >> it's not a serious dumped to avoid civilian harm. it reads more like an attempt to defer the blame for civilian harm on to the civilians rather than the idf. it looks like the worst records i've seen in my life. it's not a practical way to protect civilians. every day, they are ordering new neighborhoods cleared out, hundreds of thousands of new people to move, and pushing them further and further south into areas that are already badly overcrowded. it really does look like what the idf is trying to do is excuse then turning these areas into some version of a free fire zone, and in the way that some israeli officials are talking about it, that is how it sounds. you hear them when they're challenged, like mark was challenged by jake tapper the other day. their defense is, well, those people shouldn't have been where they are because we told them to move. that is not how international law works. the way it works, he still have to protect civilians even if they -- got >> you worked in the biden administration, in the obama administration. this administration has been very stalwart in support of israel's war efforts here, support for the netanyahu government, the coalition unity government. as someone who personally worked in this administration, what do you think about that? >> i think they are in a very hard spot, and it is partly a very hard sport of their own creation. they're very sincere in wanting to protect civilians in gaza. i think they are not yet ready to recognize, and to make some of the policy trade-offs that would entail. they want to have two things simultaneously, they want to support the israeli military offensive, and continue to arm it, equip it, and give it diplomatic backing. at the same time, they want, and they have said, how israel does that matters. israel needs to do that in a way that is in line with international law. when senior administration officials are asked, well, is this in line with international law? they tied themselves in knots, not answering that question. >> what would you say to that? >> i would say, to all appearances, it is not. >> jeremy konyndyk of refugees international. thank you for making time for us tonight. appreciate it. that is all in on this tuesday night. alex wagner tonight starts right so now you're in this moment of victimization where they are being weaponized against in they're actually going to be seen as heroes. i think the mainstream republican position is more this was an unfortunate day. it's bad that it happened. but it wasn't trump's fault and the media has overblown this. i would say that's the broad position. but there is a, the narrative that they tried to stand, is the sort of stages we're right now they take umbrage. they are the victims in this situation. that's where mike johnson is. >> this is an important part of the theme of the book, and you see it here, the perpetual aggrieved, perpetually the victim. these folks stormed the capitol. they made affirmative decisions about how they wanted to conduct their lives. but we are always put upon. we're always being picked on. we are the victims. we are so persecuted. because of that everything that we do is justified. >> desperate times call for desperate members in the eyes of a lot of these folks. the prosecution complex. this is where a lot of folks don't understand if you have been marinating and language around persecution for generations, and really language around eventual cosmic clash of good versus evil and the good god fearing christians in this country against regardless secularists are gonna come for them, this is animating the thinking of those involved. when trump comes out and says christianity will have power if you like me, joe biden will hurt guard if you elect him, and i will be a retribution against the deep state, he's speaking directly to that prosecution complex in ways that are very difficult for folks outside of the tradition to appreciate understand. >> it's obviously resident. obviously your point about mike johnson's first litmus test. he didn't have to do any of that. sometimes politicians, sarah, you are put in a position, put in a spot, and it's, like which side are you on? you have to vote one way on this. you have to vote one way. johnson's affirmatively gonna release, affirmatively saying we're gonna blow the faces, we're gonna put in the labor to obstruct the investigation into the perpetrators here. that is putting his shoulder to the wheel. that's not him against a wall. >> three or four months ago we had never heard of the sky. notice. we do know that much about him but now that we do, it has become clear this is somebody who was trying to work with donald trump to overturn the election. this guy is a true believer in many different cases of the words, but he thinks the election was stolen. he was trying to defend donald struck trump. he believes the people who charge the capitol on january 6th, they are victims, he has to protect them. he is so internalized this idea that there is a deep state and a weaponized department of justice that he clearly forgot, when he was making those statements, and he has an obligation to the rule of law, an obligation to help law enforcement officials help prosecute people who have broken the law. he seems to have no sense of that whatsoever, only that partisan, that sort of deep partisan sense of i have to protect my own. >> that's really what it comes down to. that's what's so dangerous. sarah longwell, tim alberta, tim's book which is excellent, you can read an excerpt in the atlantic. it is out as of today. tim, thanks a lot. coming up, he already tried overthrow the u.s. government once. there's every reason to believe he's going to do it again, mostly because he tells us. the continued threat, next. ah, these bills are crazy. she has no idea she's sitting on a goldmine. well she doesn't know that if she owns a life insurance policy of $100,000 or more she can sell all or part of it to coventry for cash. even a term policy. even a term policy? even a term policy! find out if you're sitting on a goldmine. call coventry direct today at the number on your screen, or visit coventrydirect.com. >> just days before the last presidential election, the atlantic released a piece written by barton gellman, who predicted with uncanny prescience that donald trump attempted to subvert the results and overturn american democracy. he even laid out the plot to convince mike pence that he had the unilateral power to announce his own reelection and a second term for trump on january six. at the time gellman's warning was not a consensus. but now as we approach what may be the repeat of 2020 there is a growing agreement and acute concern across the political spectrum about the explicitly authoritarian threat of a second trump term. former republican congresswoman liz cheney believes that trump will never leave office if he's elected again. new york times publhed this headline saying a second trump presidency may be more radical than his first. andhird of another trump term is the theme of a special atlantic issue. and peace for that issue, barton gellman says if he makes back to the white house, quote, we know what trump would like to do with that power, because he said to outlaw allowed. he wants to scott's criminal charges now pending against him. he wants to re-deploy federal prosecutors against his enemies, beginning with president joe biden. important question is, how much of that agenda he can actually carry out in a second term. barton gellman, dapper staffer atlantic, joins me now. the top line point you make, that we've talked about in the show, we can't forget the fact that the man is literally running for this term. and we're easy to see it in the abstract, he 78 years old, but he could end up in prison. that's not an insane idea. what prison would look like with secret service and but like that's a real thing. he's really scared about. he it is motivating, i think more than anything, the run and desire for power. >> i think there are people who console themselves with the idea that maybe he will already be convicted in one of the cases obtained by the time the election comes around so they've got him. but that is not what's going to happen. even if he does get convicted, in the d. c. case, the only one that looks likely to run its course before the election, the case will be on appeal. >> yes. when >> when the time comes that it's inauguration day. if he wins, his justice department will move to withdraw the case on appeal. there's a legal maneuver called confession of error, and they go to the appeals court and say never mind, we don't think he should've been convicted. >> withdrawn. >> withdrawn. i would be surprised if he doesn't also try to pardon himself. the interesting thing about the pardon is, there's a legitimate debate among constitutional scholars about whether a president can pardon himself. like so many things about trump it sort of irrelevant because if he does pardon himself there is nobody withstanding to go to school to court and challenge that pardon except maybe the justice department, his own justice department. >> this speaks to a thing i keep coming back to in this discussion. the liz cheney line about he's not going to leave. it depends on what other people do. he doesn't have unilateral power. when liz cheney says he's not going to leave if he's elected again i thought, no, the secret service is going to escort him from the building on at noon on january 20th. you could say chris you're being naive, but at some level it's like i feel this battle within myself between warning of the greatness of the danger and not seeing the terrain of his power. does that make sense to you? >> that's right. we shouldn't exaggerate. there are things a president can do when things the president can't do. we don't know to what extent the guardrails will be holding. there is a career civil service. he wants to publicize it. there are courts. >> he wants to steamroll them all. >> there's senate confirmation. but, for example, it's not clear to me that even a republican senate would confirm jeffrey clark's attorney general. >> correct. >> not me either. >> they might not but what trump's people are doing is very clever. he can put in, and the vacancies reform act, he can put someone as attorney general for most of the year as an acting as long as they are in any senate confirmed position around the u.s. government. so if he comes into power in january of 2025, the people already serving in confirmed rules will be biden appointees. but there is more than 100 positions that are senate confirmed that are held by republicans right now. national labor relations board 's -- >> statutory boards in positions. >> they must be party balanced. the trump people are looking at those names and trying to figure out what maga is they have got to work with. and they're there for 90 days. he can appoint anybody he likes. mike diverse, kash patel, as a counselor or a section chief in the justice department as long as they are gs 15 or higher in doj. he can then make them acting attorney general. and he can do that with all the other confirmed positions. >> we've got to say, they were very aggressive with -- which is the law that governs a lot of the stuff. what we know and where things stand, next. stand, next. to help keep you undetectable than dovato. detect this: most hiv pills contain 3 or 4 medicines. dovato is as effective with just 2. if you have hepatitis b, don't stop dovato without talking to your doctor. don't take dovato if you're allergic to its ingredients or taking dofetilide. this can cause serious or life-threatening side effects. if you have a rash or allergic reaction symptoms, stop dovato and get medical help right away. serious or life-threatening lactic acid buildup and liver problems can occur. tell your doctor if you have kidney or liver problems or if you are pregnant, breastfeeding, or considering pregnancy. dovato may harm an unborn baby. most common side effects are headache, nausea, diarrhea, trouble sleeping, tiredness, and anxiety. detect this: i stay undetectable with fewer medicines. ask your doctor about switching to dovato. i got this $1,000 camera for only $41 on dealdash. dealdash.com, online auctions since 2009. this playstation 5 sold for only 50 cents. this ipad pro sold for less than $34. and this nintendo switch, sold for less than $20. i got this kitchenaid stand mixer for only $56. i got this bbq smoker for 26 bucks. and shipping is always free. go to dealdash.com right now and see how much you can save. >> tonight the chair of the florida republican party is refusing to resign despite accusations of rape and sexual assault. christian ziegler, seen with donald trump of florida's freedom summit just last month, has been the chair of the state republican party since february. his wife, brigitte, cofounded the right-wing group moms from liberty and helped draft the original version of the don't say gay bill that governor ron desantis signed into law in 1922. he is joined the chorus of floridians demanding christian ziegler stepped down amid an ongoing investigation. at the center of the allegations are that on october 2nd, christian and his wife brigitte planned to have a consensual sexual encounter with a woman they had known for 20 years. as detailed in the search warrant affidavit first obtained at the florida center for government accountability, the woman told police that christian ziegler chauvin showed up at her prior apartment alone and proceeded to rape her. ziegler has denied wrongdoing and has not been charged with a crime. he sent emails to supporters over the weekend saying we have a country to save and i'm not gonna allow false allegations to put that mission on a bench. his vice chair of the state party has called the emergency meeting of the republican party of florida scheduled to december 17th to force ziegler to step down. this is politics reporter for the miami how. harrelson covering the story closely and she joins me now. can we first track how this story first came out and what we have learned about what is being alleged? >> yes. this is a very developing story, it broke a few days ago, right around the time that governor ron desantis was debating california governor gavin newsom on live tv, on fox news. when all of this happened it was pretty much a month old accusation that was raised against christian ziegler and since then we have found out more details because there has been the release of an affidavit that we have seen where there are details of how close a relationship was with this woman, between not just christians the clear but his wife, brigitte, who has been pretty active in political circles, especially conservative circles here in florida and across the country, with her influence in the parental rights movement. and so we have been seeing this develop, drips by drips of information, in the last few days. and now we are seeing a chorus of pretty much every single major republican in florida calling for his resignation, and it appears there might be gearing up for a meeting in december 17th, where that could potentially happen and be a showdown. >> just to reestablish the facts here again. he has denied that this happened, but allegations that could mean a lot of things. in this case the police were called for a wellness check to the alleged victim here. and their subsequent police affidavits that report in detail that she alleges that he sexually assaulted her. there are subsequent, if i'm not mistaken, messages between the two in which she says i don't like what you did to me, i'm upset, i can't go to work. there was an interview with the wife. detectives interviewed brigitte ziegler again, this is the moms for liberty leader, and that it only happened one time she confirmed having a sexual encounter with the victim and christian over a year ago. also interviewed in the affidavit, christian ziegler, with his attorney president, he said he had conceptual sent sex with the victim, took a video of the counter, it said he initially deleted it. something happened here. there's a lot of established other than a person said i think happened. just to be clear about this. it seems like that's provoking the cascade of calls for him to resign. >> right. these are very serious allegations. when you raise those details, those are details that were outlined in official documents. this is not someone who went to the media and is making these accusations. it's someone who has reported to authorities and it was an incredible threat, enough that there was this affidavit filed with the court. and now we are really seeing the demand for taking these accusations seriously. it has been interesting to see this develop, because christians ziegler in particular has someone who has a really espoused abilities of never apologizing when it comes to your political foes and he has really adopted that at the beginning. but now you are starting to see the tables turn a little bit on whether this accusation should be taken more seriously and whether it's too much of a distraction for him to be able to continue leading the party. >> this has to be one of the most connected influential conservative couples in the state of florida. she's the cofounder of moms for liberty. i imagine it sent shock waves through the upper echelons of the entire state party at this point. >> absolutely. there's an upcoming election next year. it's just months away. republicans are coming off fresh from a pretty big victory in november, 2022. they want to keep the momentum going. those two famous floridians on the ballot for the presidential election next year, the most famous florida resident, former president donald trump and the governor, ron desantis. so there's a lot of pressure going on in maintaining the at least civility of the party. so this is definitely garnering the attention of every single republican in every pocket of the