our cia has no ability to have any form of interrogation for terrorists. >> the truth is, congresswoman bachmann, who is a member of the house intelligence committee is wrong. the cia still interrogates terror suspects in the field. in fact, president obama created the high value detainee interrogation group which includes the cia of the fbi and defense department. they deploy in teams to question terror suspects here in the united states and overseas. whether that policy is strong enough or not is a matter for debate. but what's clear is that bachmann's comments are not accurate. let's turn now to herman cain and border and security. >> an insecure border is a national security threat for the following reasons. number one, we know that terrorists have come into this country by way of mexico. >> keeping them honest. the "houston chronicle" reports there is no evidence of terrorists entering the united states through mexico. back in march, the newspaper reported on an independent analysis at vanderbilt university. it found a 67% increase in the number of arrests on the border from suspect nation. that was up from 2000 to 2009, yet a senior law enforcement official told "the chronicle" not one of the suspects faced terror charges. a lot of people are talking about what former house speaker newt gingrich said about illegal immigrants. he broke with his fellow candidates of the he said he would support lighter restrictions for those who lived in the united states for many years, saying he wouldn't deport them. mitt romney took issue with that. yet, when pressed on how he would handle the estimated 11 million to 12 million illegal immigrants here in the united states, romney really didn't have an answer. watch this exchange he had with our own wolf blitzer. >> certainly, we have to secure the border. and we talk about people who have been here 25 years. that is the extreme exception. >> you would let them stay. >> not the rule. >> you would let them stay? >> i'm not going to start drawing lines here about who gets to stay and who gets to go. the principle is, we're not going to have an amnesty system that says that people who come here illegally get to stay for the rest of their life in this country legally. this answer is we're going to have a system that allows those people who come legally a card that identifies them as coming here legally, employers are going to be expected to inspect that card. on that basis, we'll be able to bring into this country the number of people that we need to power our industries, whether that's agriculture or high-tech. we welcome people in here with visa programs. we have a whole series of legal programs. but the idea of focusing a republican debate on amnesty and who we're going to give it to is a huge mistake. secure our border, protect legal immigration, and return to a system that follows the law. >> romney had a lot to say. but keeping them honest, you might notice he never answered if he would deport illegal immigrants. and on a lighter note, there is also this snafu from romney. >> i'm mitt romney, and wolf, yes, that's also my first name. >> actually, his first name is willard. mitt is his middle name. slight snafu. let's get into politics. david gergen, cnn contributor. eric erickson. and sherry jacobs, columnist for "the hill." president of capital strategies p.r. david, on immigration, if you listen to speaker gingrich's answer there, he's taking a gamble. he's looking past the primary and past tea party voters, and we expect mitt romney to focus on the general election and barack obama, a risk for speaker gingrich, no? >> certainly sounded like it. and eric will have a much better sense of how much damage he may have done for himself by going soft, so to speak, on immigration. how much damage he may have done among conservatives, the conservative base, especially in places like iowa. but i think as a general proposition, john, that newt gingrich is trying to reintroduce himself to the american people. he's been out of the limelight for a long time. he was seen as a bomb thrower in his earlier days. effective, yes, but a bomb thrower. and i think he's trying to introduce himself as a person who has grown, become more mature. and perhaps more empathic. with those who have had problems in the past. after all, this is a man asking voters to forgive him for his own past failings. and you know, it's not totally unnatural that he might be more forgiving of others who have had past failings of their own, such as people who are here illegally for 25 years. >> eric, i'll get your view in a second. sherry, we heard from the iowa congressman, steve king today, an important conservative voice. in his state, he said gingrich's immigration comments last night raised concerns for him. he says if you listen to the speaker, what he describes is amnesty. is that a problem in the state that votes first and votes in less than six weeks? >> i think what newt gingrich is trying to do is eliminate that as a problem. and i think by him coming out and addressing it and being out front on it, not being on the defensive, being on the offensive, he was able to put it in his own words rather than wait for those secret robocalls that will come during the -- in iowa. but he can't defend himself against. i think that was a strategy on his part that was smart, quite frankly. i don't think it was risky, and i don't think it was a mistake. it's best it comes from him so he can have this debate, put it in his own words rather than have one of the other candidates try and get in there and represent his or misrepresent his decision. >> eric, you think smart? >> you know, i think it's a risk, particularly in a place like iowa. but i think it's very smart. lock, newt's taking a gamble right now. there are only two people who can really take him on on this issue are you right now in iowa. michele bachmann and romney. michele bachmann doesn't have the money and romney says they're going to take him on, except mitt romney was saying virtually the same thing in 2007. and the gingrich campaign was already circulating the press clip from "meet the press" back in 2007. >> back in 2007, eric is referring to governor romney back then saying he would support a program that not only incolluded legal status, but potentially support citizenship. so there will be a question for governor romney on this one. there will be a question for romney on this one. let's stay on point for a second, our viewers haven't seen romney's new tv ad. he's the front runner, he has been the front runner all along, being challenged by speaker gingrich. he launched his first tv ad this week and raised a lot of eyebrows. listen here. >> i am confident that we can steer ourselves out of this crisis. we need a rescue plan for the middle class. we need to provide relief for homeowners. it's going take a new direction. if we keep talking about the economy, we're going to lose. lose. lose. >> you hear that voice in the end. that's then senator obama, 2008. if we keep talking about the economy, we're going to lose. he's actually quoting a mccain aide. and part of the sentence they left off here. and here's how governor romney defended this ad today. here's how romney defends it in iowa. >> the ad, before it went out, was sent out with press releases describing that what the president had said about john mccain was now going to be used to be said about him. so there was no hidden effort on the part of our campaign. it was instead to point out that what is sauce for the goose is now sauce for the gander. >> sauce for the gander. they did in the press release say they were using that quote. but if you're just somebody watching in your living room, you have no idea they are taking then senator obama now president obama out of context. risky for a guy who can find plenty of other obama tape talking about the economy? >> absolutely. and the idea that people are going to read the press release is ridiculous. look, mitt romney is clearly trying to prove his campaign, trying to show he's going to take the fight to obama. something republicans have had -- a little worried about. one of the reasons newt gingrich is doing well against romney, seems to be more of a brawler. someone who will take the fight. i think the romney people are trying to disprove that but having said that, as you point out, they have so much material to work with on the economy, why in the world would they want to resort to something that is at best misleading? and for a man like mitt romney, who, yes, he has been back and forth on some issues, but generally seen as a man of integrity. why would he allow his campaign -- why would he himself come out and endorse it? i think he ought to clear the air and restart and go after the material honestly. he's got a lot to work with. >> eric, if you watched the debate last night and watched this fascinating week, we have seen newt gingrich now catching up to mitt romney, even passing in some national polls. ahead in a new iowa poll. if you're mitt romney, looking around the stage last night, you have to be hoping that you don't end up in a two-way or three-way. you want perry, you want bachmann, herman cain, rick santorum. you want them to survive iowa and have a crowded field moving on, don't you? >> you do. in fact, mitt romney's campaign has thrown several lifelines to candidates. in one of the debates, the bloomberg debate, he asked a softball to michele bachmann on what great things she would do for america. he has said nice things about herman cain and defended cain from attacks. there's a real problem, though, just from the cnn poll and other polls are starting to show this, as newt gingrich has now gone up beyond mitt romney, we're seeing something we haven't seen with other candidates. mitt romney is starting to go back down. he has been very, very steady in the polling with other candidates, bouncing around him. he's never gone down as someone else has risen. with gingrich's rise, he is starting to go down in the polls. and that's got to worry the romney campaign, that gingrich is now ahead in iowa and new polls have him vastly ahead in south carolina and even places like pennsylvania. the race looks like it may be starting to find its nonromney candidate. and if so, i don't think mitt romney is going to be the nominee. >> and if so, sherry, can gingrich take advantage of his surge, or has it come at a point where maybe he doesn't have the resources and infrastructure. we do know as he went up in the polls this week, he won't be on the ballot for the missouri primary, because his team missed a filing deadline. that's campaign 101. there are caucuses, the campaign says it will play in those. but they missed some opportunities, because of their -- the bad stretch, if you will. >> well, the opportunities weren't there, because he had the bad stretch. he lost all that staff last summer, and people wrote him off for dead. we saw that with john mccain, by the way, in 2008. but his strengths are the debates. that's why he is where he is. these debates matter. last night's debate, i think, mattered more than the others. so i think that he's ahead now, i think romney is probably going to recover his numbers, because he does have a better ground game. he does have the resources. he is organized. so it's going to -- i think you're going to see these two as top tier for a while. but i don't think you're going to see romney keep going down. i think he's got a chance to come back up, because as you said, he has the resources. he's got the organization, the ground game. where gingrich doesn't. >> if you look at the history books, david gergen, and you know the history, newt gingrich, often, when he is at a peak, does something to hurt himself. do you see a different newt gingrich this time around? >> that to me is a fascinating question, john. you know, we all knew him when he was in the limelight back in the '90s as speaker. and no one other than gingrich could have engineered that republican takeover of the house. and much of what he achieved as speaker. but at the same time, as you recall, he made a lot of mistakes. and while he was strong, he also had a reputation for being a bomb-thrower, often erratic. and i think the big question now, is this the old newt gingrich we haven't quite seen come out yet or is there a new, more mature, newt gingrich. if there is a new newt and people are convinced of that, i think he'll give romney a run for his money. on the other hand, if it people conclude he's a right wing sort of erratic, bully kind of person, who is -- you know, who says really -- and can hurt himself, then i think his chances of getting there are quite slim. >> david gergen, david erickson, thank you so much for joining us. let us know what you think at home. we're on facebook and google plus. add us to your circles. up next -- new violent clashes in egypt. military police battling protests, tear gas and anger in the streets. a truce lasting just three hours. the military says it wants peace. we're keeping them honest. also tonight, the latest on the penn state sex abuse scandal. jerry sandusky's lawyer responds to new allegations reportedly coming from members of sandusky's own family. john, amazing video from new zealand where a helicopter crashed as a pilot was helping to set up a christmas tree. incredibly, the pilot survived this crash. that and much more when "360" continues. i'm an expert on softball. and tea parties. i'll have more awkward conversations than i'm equipped for because i'm raising two girls on my own. i'll worry about the economy more than a few times before they're grown. but it's for them, so i've found a way. who matters most to you says the most about you. massmutual is owned by our policyholders so they matter most to us. massmutual. we'll help you get there. ♪ you want to save money on car insurance? no problem. you want to save money on rv insurance? no problem. you want to save money on motorcycle insurance? no problem. you want to find a place to park all these things? fuggedaboud it. this is new york. hey little guy, wake up! aw, come off it mate! geico. saving people money on more than just car insurance. another keeping them honest report. more violence in egypt, raids spreading in the streets of cairo despite claims by the ruling military to speed up the power to a new government. the good news, there was a three-hour cease fire today. the bad news, it didn't last. here is cnn's ivan watson in egypt's capital. >> this is where the fighting has been raging now. into the fifth day. this one road here with police not very far away, and these kids choking, puking. but refusing to give their ground amid the constant tear gas that's coming over here. eye-witnesses show that they're actually breaking the cease fire sometimes that are arranged here, and just venting their fury. and there's another round of tear gas. >> now, ivan talked with one of the protesters who says their anger all boils down to one thing. watch. >> reporter: what do you want? >> well, what we need is to be from the people. the freedom! we don't need any military control for these people. >> we don't need any military control, the gentleman said. but the military isn't giving up its grip just yet. and people are dying. the death toll from these latest clashes has risen to 35, according to state-run tv. a spokesman for egypt's health ministry says more than 3,000 others have been injured. no doubt, some of those injuries happened today. look at what cnn witnessed in cairo earlier. >> reporter: as you can see, right in front of me, there's this one soldier who has put on his gas mask and it looks like an antiquated model there. they've all put on -- many of them have put on their gas masks, because the gas that was fired by the interior ministry. this -- this really indicates that there is a stark division between the army, on the one hand, and the interior ministry on the other. the army today put out a statement that they have not fired any tear gas at protesters. which basically -- what they're saying is, we are not interior ministry. so what you're seeing now, these are army. these are soldiers of the egyptian army in front of me, and they've formed a line, yet another line, another basically two lines separating them. separating them from the protesters on one side and the interior ministry forces on the other. more rocks -- more rocks coming in. and you can see the soldiers themselves who don't have gas masks are starting to suffer from this gas, as i am, as well. >> courageous reporting from cairo today. ben will join us live in a moment. here's another look at the line ben talked about, separating protesters and security forces. a state-run tv the government said religious clerics were going to form a human shield between the two sides. well, cnn saw no sign of that. but the religious scholars were talking to protesters, trying to negotiate. the violence started over the weekend and continues raising concerns and questions about egypt's future, ahead of monday's important parliamentary elections. many people thought these days were over in egypt, after the fall of mubarak the regime back in february. but here we are again. once again, protesters are being beaten. this man was hit with batons on monday, not just one, but several batons. you can see it there in the hands of security forces. and then there's this. [ gunfire ] >> gunshots ringing out earlier this week as military and police forces go after protesters who are fighting back with rocks. joining us now live from cairo, cnn international correspondent ben weidiman. ben, the collapse of the truth. what does it say about the uneasy relationship between the egyptian army and the police? >> the egyptian army is really sort of trying to distance itself from the police. and this is because despite all of the unhappiness with the supreme council of the armed forces that runs egypt, the soldiers, the ordinary soldiers in the street, still get respect. they're not attacked by the protesters, whereas the ministry of the interior and its forces are profoundly hated by egyptians. i've driven by the interior ministry, and the old days of hosni mubarak the, egyptians would say, you go in that building, you may never come out again. and what we're seeing is that -- a realization that this is a painted ministry. so, for instance, we heard from the grand of the republic of egypt, hamad ahmed tiab. actually calling on the interior ministry to stop shooting egyptians. and that sort of statement from the most senior religious authority in the country, at a -- what was a pillar of the mubarak regime represents -- just indicates how much has changed. in the old days, he was considered a puppet of the regime. no now he is openly criticizing it. john? >> ben, as evidence, the army comes out with a statement saying it fired no tear gas at the protesters. is that true? >> reporter: well, technically, it may be. we can't say with absolute certainty. but certainly most of the tear gas has been fired by the security forces, by the interior ministry forces. and not the military. the military, as we saw today, is trying to separate the two forces. it's almost as if the interior ministry is beyond the control of the military who have come in and pushed them apart. i mean, that's sort of odd, given that in theory, the military and the police are working together for the security of the country. the military actually has to intercede between the people and the police. it's unheard of, in a sense. >> and marie, what, if anything, should the united states or the broader international community be doing right now? >> the united states needs to be pushing for a national unity government, essentially, for the military to cede power to a unity government that would bring lots of parties together and stop v