and you won't believe who the police dragged off to jail in the protests. not the usual suspects. this is "piers morgan tonight." pretty dramatic day for the occupied wall street protests. marches and the rest across the country and some rough arrests. thousands on the streets and police from new york to san diego struggling to coral demonstrators. new york, more than a dozen arrest and more arrested in denver and san diego, all this after protesters declared victory on wall street. and bloomberg, pulled back on the threat to move them out of the area they're occupying. we'll talk to two arrest prod testers later in the show. sean penn, many say his greatest role is that of activist. welcome. >> thank you. >> when you say what's happening on "occupy wall street" protests, do these resonate with you? is that the fury you've felt about issues over the years? >> it resonates a great deal. and in many ways some of them complicated. i was born in 1960, so the primary television show we grew up watching was the vietnam war. i grew up in a family that was opposed to it and i later came to find that i owned my own then adopted beliefs that that was an illegal war, unjust war. and a horrible tragedy. on the other hand, i was very concerned about movements because many in the same movements that protested the war were the ones that were calling our troops baby killers when they returned. i won't say a dominant amount, but enough that it colored for me my will to be involved in movements. on the other hand, one does understand that historically and currently, any major change you're going to have to take a leap of faith, not only with an organized movement but one that comes in a common sense of what's in the common need. >> but there are plenty of economic issues in america for people to get very angry about. so i can -- i've been waiting for this. i've been amazed it's taken so long for the american public who are losing their jobs and homes and having this massive disconnect with washington to get angry like this. >> i think up to be patient with something like this being organized. if you're going to be patient with the criminality that was so much of wall street so i applaud the spirit of what's happening on wall street. i hope that increased organization can come to it. and i think the media plays a big part of it because it's going to stay, you know, i saw -- you say you felt it was gaining momentum. i saw another network this afternoon trying to encourage the idea that it was losing momentum. the real thing, in part, is going to be what's best for television? but this generation and this does begin, significantly, with the arab spring, is starting to tell the world that we cannot be controlled by fear anymore. and we will not be denied because if you don't put us on television we have our computers at home and we can make a lot of noise. >> social networking with twitter and facebook, stuff like that, they're almost circumnavigating. the youth, in particular, can get around it. youth, they can express themselves and garner other interests, other enthusiasm. that's why it's spreading. >> no question about it. and, yet, the component that is where do we go from there with successes in these things, again, i go back to the arab spring. egypt, for example, we have 85 million people, some secretaryism and a lot of different powers going forward. it's going to take economic plans. it's going to take tourism which is significant there. and then you have, you know, what happens in libya where the interim government is actually encouraging leadership, not trying to rob the libyans of their revolution. so in this situation, you know, i find that it's been a long time coming and i'd like to see the president go and interact with the protesters in new york in particular, and for this to become not just a protest dialogue, but a home to home dialogue. >> what do you make of what's happening to your country? are you proud to be an american now? >> i'm more proud to be an american than ever. and i've always been proud to be an american. i'll tell you a funny story. there's a perception about me that's gone as far as the word "traitor." i was worning in a small town in south dakota called carthage. this was at a time that are referring to me and other pundits referred to me with the "t" word. but television spirit, those things that were being reported about people like myself and -- that were offering different opinions, let's say. was very different than what was happening in the street and so when i left i remember getting on the airplane and my friend was in the back of the plane and he says -- admit it, sean, republicans are nicer than democrats. >> are they? >> i think largely, people with simpler thoughts are more polite. >> were you massively hopeful, like so many about barack obama becoming president, and if so, do you feel disappointed now? what have been your thoughts the last two or three years. >> i don't think that that matters as much as -- in the way that it's often talked about. all over the world this is being proven. what is barack obama? a symbol of leadership for our country, as bill clinton, despite the fact that i'm, in both cases these are democrats. the they're inspirational minds. they're inspirational of nature. i think that nobody is ashamed of the man that is barack obama. though, there are many people disappointed with his choices. but as long as we can say this is what represents us, and i can be proud of that, then it has to be our job first. we have to be pushing him and supporting him in movements forward. and i think you know welcome there was not enough noise when it came to, for example, afghanistan. this was a big, big, big mistake. >> your views on rairk and afghanistan. do you think this whole concept of america being the world's policeman has just got to stop? do you think america should become -- much more selfish or be more humanitarian iniaries like haiti but leave the bombing to other people? >> we don't have to tell it to ourselves. it's loud and clear to the courage of a man that lit himself on fire in tunisia to libya, the courage that's going on. there's no question in my mind. >> well, the freedom through the kind of uprising that you saw in the square is more beneficial to america's interest than going to iraq and behaving the way the allies had done there. >> if we had waited on iraq, what we'd be seeing is saddam hussein being brought down by his people right now without hundreds of thousands of dead iraqis, children, u.s. soldiers. all of the money that's been spent that could have been spent here to better this country, to strengthen this country. >> when you said all this, at the time of iraq, it was a big issue, that's when you got called a traitor. american troops giving their lives, you shouldn't be saying this stuff and the counter argument is have more people be more vocal in america pointing out that saddam hussein had nothing to do with 9/11 as many believed in america at the time. if people had been more vocal and been more sean penns it may not have happened. >> well, then that's all of our job to make sure that i does happen and one should take inspiration from what these people are doing on wall street. if we're to keep our heads high, the example in the middle east today is so emotional and extraordinary. the courage that it has taken. and libya, soldiers today, who were not soldiers six months ago. they were doctors. they were engineers. >> and you've just been in libya and egypt so you saw it first hand? >> yeah. and they just -- they were being fired on with anti-aircraft artillery and just kept coming and lost so many. >> do you think that we're beginning to see the beginning of the end of the old-fashioned dictator? do you think the power of these uprisings all over the world in all different ways, means that those guys, their days are numbers, generally? >> i think, frankly, rupert murdoch will be the teller of this, i think the great ones are in the corporate world. and that a clown, gadhafi, by any sober analysis, could have been three times as wealthy and a god to the world. he had 6 million people to take care of hundreds of billions of dollars, deep oil reserves, 2,000 kilometers of gorgeous beaches to put hotels on. he could have had earn taken care of in his country and been a shining example to the world of how to do it. and he chose to destroy his country, ultimately, destroy himself, killed his sons who are both horrors themselves. for what? so this is allowed to happen because of smarter people than gadhafi. >> let's take a break. we'll come back and talk about the republican runners and riders the next election and about your work in haiti where you are certainly put the hours in. unlike many other who is said they would [ male announcer ] it's true... consumers er wanchai ferry orange chicken... over p.f. chang's home menu orange chicken women men and uh pandas... elbows mmm [ male announcer ] wanchai ferry, try it yourself. when i got my medicare card, i realized i needed an aarp... medicare supplement insurance card, too. medicare is one of the great things about turning 65, but it doesn't cover everything. in fact, it only pays up to 80% of your part b expenses. if you're already on or eligible for medicare, call now to find out how an aarp... medicare supplement insurance plan, insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company, helps cover some of the medical expenses... not paid by medicare part b. that can save you from paying up to thousands of dollars... out of your own pocket. these are the only medicare supplement insurance plans... exclusively endorsed by aarp. when you call now, you'll get this free information kit... with all you need to enroll. put their trust in aarp medicare supplement insurance. plus you'll get this free guide to understanding medicare. the prices are competitive. i can keep my own doctor. and i don't need a referral to see a specialist. call now to get a free information kit. plus you'll get this free guide to understanding medicare. and the advantages don't end there. choose from a range of medicare supplement plans... that are all competitively priced. we have a plan for almost everyone, so you can find one that fits your needs and budget. with all medicare supplement plans, there are virtually no claim forms to fill out. plus you can keep your own doctor and hospital that accepts medicare. and best of all, these plans are... the only medicare supplement plans endorsed by aarp. when they told me these plans were endorsed by aarp... i had only one thing to say... sign me up. call the number on your screen now... and find out about an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan. you'll get this free information kit... and guide to understanding medicare, to help you choose the plan that's right for you. as with all medicare supplement plans, you can keep your own doctor and hospital that accepts medicare, get help paying for what medicare doesn't... and save up to thousands of dollars. call this toll-free number now. >> what you saw in the city, 360 degree shot. you didn't see one ngo vehicle. no ngo personnel. no international relief at all. and everybody talks about this city. >> my special guest, sean penn. let me ask you, the reputation you have, is that you must just spend all your time furious. >> i wonder if that's so. >> you could be a more media friendly. you could be less abraeive. less in people's faces. there's another way of doing this. you could be mr. beloved hollywood star helping the world. i get the feeling you don't give a crap about all that. >> when oh when i was very young, i was doing my first movie who i had done a play on broadway with, come to visit me. he was bunking up in my small hotel room in valley forge, pennsylvania. and we'd be getting up very early every morning and every morning the girl at the desk would look over to us and say, why don't you ever smile? and he finally gave me the great line which i stole many times after that, he just mumbled and he sort of said, he kept walking and said -- it's tough knowing this much. but i think in my case, because i do recognize what you're asking me. and i think that it's tough only being able to recognize a standard that i can apply myself to and to -- and i don't have very much tolerance. when things can be done simply that are being made complicated. >> you immersed yourself in haiti, quite literally. you were there for months and months and months when many other well-known people like they do in these kinds of situations, attach they were name for a week or two or when the story went away, they go away, too. what drives you to stick it out in somewhere like hey tie. you're a multimillionaire. double oscar winning soorp star. if i was in your position i'd be sitting in my beverly hills mansion worrying about it from a distance. what motivated you to go there and ditch there and carry on, working 40s kind of thing? >> i think i would have to begin to answer that by saying that because we live in a world doing the things that my organization is doing in haiti, jphro, where we have dependencies and great appreciation for a lot of ways in which pooinl contribute. i can say that -- >> life has moved on for many people around the world but not for the haitians. they are still living in o'poverty and there's a lot of work to be done and the funding issues, you know, are not helping. because they are deterring people from giving money. >> that's correct. and this is why i wrote a rebuttal on the "rolling stone" website because it's about -- you have to be very accurate in how you do it. haiti, now, haiti can work. all those u.s. troops that we sent down there in the immediate relief and all the money we spent on that, the fact of being able to show what this country -- what the united states really can be in spirit recognizing that an hour and a half away is the nation of the first major slave revolt. i mean, if there should be -- i would think, frankly, the black americans of note would be paying more attention to giving haiti the shot that it needs right now. helping it. we're on the edge. what they have and what needs to be supported is the president you talked to. because he's a decisive person. and because more importantly, that beyond those who were able to get to the polls, it is my on-the-ground perspective throughout the country, not only in port-au-prince, that this currently, this president has overwhelming support of the people. so if he's supported correctly, if he's listened to, and the donors do start releasing the funds, as they are beginning to do the world bank and the idb and so on and we are seeing effects of it, and if people continue to stay interested in haiti now, then those who might seek to unseat him from within, which has been a long problem in haiti and it's about a certain kind of blooirnd corruption, similar to what i was talking about with gadhafi. braert a big fish in a big pond than a rich fish in a big pond and they consider, you know, the benefit to the people and collateral damage. that's starting to reverse itself. and, also, now is the time that the haitian people, having had this incredible trauma in a life of poverty trauma, of this earthquake, are now ready to be part of that change. i think this is the best moment -- this is the most important moment now for people to be understanding what they're contributing to but contributing and though there are so many problems in the world and so many right here in the united states, the vibrations of what will come out of a success in haiti, out of a rejuvenated and renewed sense of how to accomplish humanitarian aid and ultimately, leading to the rebuilding of independence of a country itself and the people itself, right next door, can be a profit. these people will work hard. you pay them $5 a day it's $3 more than they used to get. >> we'll take a break and talk about who may be the next president of the united states and the kind of world view you'd like them to have >> my special guest, sean penn. let's talk about the american election coming up next year. of all the republican candidates, clearly, i expect you -- if you had to, who is the one that you would prefer to see as the republican nominee? >> of the republican candidates, i would say barack obama. no, i -- look -- >> who's the least threatening to your ideology? >> that would not necessarily be the way that i would pick it. look, i think that, again, you have to look at a leader as hand in hand with where the people -- the citizens of the country of which that leader leads. you know, i think we are so tied to our institutions, most of which most people don't understand how they work in the first place, that we're afraid to lose them. we saw when arab springs happened in egypt. we saw a pause from the president and from the united states. and the concern at every dinner table in this city, also, was oh, we have to be very careful. remember, saudi arabia. and then finally somebody said -- saudi arabia! and realized that we're in a world where principle is strategy for the first time. so who should be the president of the united states, you know? i mean, until you have either bull worth or a country willing to elect somebody like dennis cococinch. i'll likely vote for president obama again. i'm an optimist and i know that he did inherit a terrible situation from not only president bush, but prior to that as well. but it's not -- voting isn't a happy occasion and it should be. and i think that barack obama is as capable of being a great president as anybody that we've got walking. >> he inherited one of the worst economic hospitals imaginable and he's struggled to deal with that. when you have 10% of americans out of work and this is a crisis we haven't seen in our lifetime. many people feel frustrated that he hadn't delivered on the promise. i feel as a dispassionate outsider, that was that was a big promise to try to deliver on. he was seen as the kind of political messiah, so expectation was far too high, given the state of the economy. >> i would like to see expectation get higher and at the same time to have a very, very clear understanding of what he's up against. there are some decisions we can debate that have been made as i, you know, i think that the afghanistan action is a problem. but we also have to know what forces are working against him and divides the country and dividing our ability as a country to get together in support of such basic things. they'll call you a socialist if you want them to pay for medical care but they don't call you a socialist when they're dialing 911 to the police department or fire department paid for like socialism. there are basic things -- and there is a blend. captain looimpbl isn't working. socialism doesn't work. at least socialists say -- this is the socialist experiment. >> so what should america be doing as a business model to get back on its feet? what do you think is the right way to go for america? many say mirk doesn't build things like it used to. it's become a great consumer but not a great producer? >> well, i don't claim a great understanding of the levels of the economics. but it does certainly occur to me that when you follow a human spirit and the agenda, like the hoover dam, roads, infrastructure, that these are things that -- it goes back to basics. we need them. there's no question about that. i've been down to the mexican border and seen 80, 90-year-old men with their wives, world war ii veterans, on walkers, waiting in 90-degree sun in a line 100 deep to cross the border in mexico to get medicines they can't afford to get in this country. meantime, tell me what we've got in afghanistan? what have we got none iraq? we killed a bad guy. everybody feels great about that. while we kill a bad guy so many people are sufferin