Transcripts For CNNW Anderson Cooper 360 20120529 : vimarsan

CNNW Anderson Cooper 360 May 29, 2012



left of their faces. the kind of powder burns you get from a gun pressed up against your face. that's because their murderers did their killing face to face, friday night after a day of anti-assad protests in hula. first tanks shelled the neighborhood, then at about 7:00 p.m., a man in uniform began going door to door. one neighborhood boy watched as a militia man grabbed his friend, a 13-year-old and shot him in the head. the militia men handcuffed one family of children, forced their father to watch as they killed them. i watched the bodies of nine children, he's saying, one with less than nine months old. was he a fighter? he had a pacifier in his mouth. the children were laid in row afro of shrouded figures. with a war raging all around them, the bodies were buried. you can see the makeshift cinder block walls to try to preserve some shred of dignity in death. they had no dignity in life because of what the regime did to them. the regime blames it all on terrorists. we'll have more on that in a moment. all of this is happening with u.n. observers on the ground in syria. not many of them. they're unarmed, and can't do a thing to stop the slaughter. they're supposed to be monitoring the truce brokered by former u.n. secretary-general kofi annan, who's in damascus tonight. the truce that the assad regime have flagrantly violated since day one. they issued a statement that saying use of force against civilians violated international law. the final security council statement did not blame the regime for friday's massacre, that's remarkable. an earlier draft did, but russia which has veto power objected. russia's foreign minister likened the slaughter in syria to a night at the disquo. >> you know, it takes two to dance, it takes two to tango. even though in the current situation in syria, what we have is not the tango. we see having a disco party where players are dancing. they should all dance in the same way. >> syria, he says is a disco party. the assad regime disavows it all. >> we absolutely deny that the government's armed forces had any responsibility in committing such a massacre, and we strongly condemn the terrorist massacre that targeted our syrian people in a blatant manner. and we condemn this absurdity of blaming the armed forces -- >> these people have been lying now for more than 14 months, they've repeatedly denied the murder of children. this whole uprising began after children who had graffitied anti-government slogans in dhara were arrested. over the last few months we've seen countless photos of children's bodies shot. this boy had been tortured, his body mutilated, killed by the assad regime security forces. now a year later, the world is stunned that so many children would be stunned at close range. i don't know why anyone is surprised by this slaughter fp we cannot pretend we didn't see it before. we cannot pretend we didn't know this was happening. we have watched it day after day, night after night. we know the names of the dead. we cannot pretend we did not know. alex thompson is a correspondent for britain's channel 4, he was in houla over the weekend. tonight he's in homs. as you said, the world has only seen fleeting glimpses of what happened. describe what you saw for yourself? >> there's a big firefight going on, about half a mile from where i am right now. we got into the area where there are syrian troops. we stopped and there was a firefight at that point. we took shelter in the building. i looked across, and there was a body covered in a blanket. when with i pulled that blanket back, it revealed an old man way with beyond fighting age. at least 75, 80 years oiled who had a gun shot wound to the head. a few feet away, i pulled over another blanket and a girl who couldn't have been more than 5 or, she had a gunshot wound in her chest. i put the blanket back and gave her whatever little dignity you can give someone in that situation. the bodies were not discovered by the u.n. convoy. they bypassed them further into town. i'm telling you tonight, however many bodies they think have been recovered, the number is greater than that. >> the asat regime is denying any responsibility for this. as we know, over the last 14 months or so, they have lied repeatedly. we have seen children repeatedly targeted and tortured to death, sent back to their families, is there any reason to believe that anybody other than government forces or government supporters did this massacre? >> i don't believe there is. but there's proof on the ground. if you go to houla, tell me this, why is it that the area which is controlled by the government, by the syrian army troops is a ghost town? there are no civilians there at all. why is that? and why is it the case that there are plenty of civilians in the other section of town which is controlled by the rebels. why is it they flee the areas where their own government is, but remain in the area where the rebels are. the syrian people feel safer with the rebels. >> do you find it extraordinary that after 14 months of this crackdown, and all the deaths that we have seen, people are still coming out to protest after being in the mosques on friday? and apparently that's what started -- was what caused the government to go into this town in houla after friday prayers. the fact that people are still willing to go out on the streets and protest, i find extraordinary. >> when with people have the mood for freedom, that matters more to them than putting bread on the table. and almost life itself. that said, what you have to understand is that 99% of the syrian country is relatively peaceful. it's specific where the fighting is going on. the fact that the russian foreign minister has said only today, that the only thing russia is interested in is the assad plan, i have to say is an invitation to civil war. >> we've seen children killed throughout this conflict but to see so many over the weekend, so many people ask the question, how is it possible, why would a regime kill children like this? >> what goes through the minds of these people, the armed militias who went building by building, house by house family by family, and slaughtered people, is beyond the comprehension tonight of most syrians as is it is most people around the zbloeb. >> we can hear the fighting in the background, stay safe. thank you. >> thank you. >> the question is what can, what should be done about it? there are global sanctions on syria now. over the weekend with mitt romney called on the president to arm forces. >> horrible things are happening in syria. this administration has affectless foreign policy. i know that they are ready to help these people, and they are already helping them some. it cries out for american leadership, american leadership is not there. >> his departing colleague, richard lugar, says president obama has been cautious on syria. properly so. you heard alex describe a country in the middle of a regional powder keg. i want to talk about it with fran towson and fouad ajami. the world cannot say they didn't know this was happening. i mean, everyone is shocked at the death toll over the weekend, the massacre of children. we've seen children killed now for 14 months. >> you you will understand, you talk to children, one boy i will never forget. he said, we can't live like this, we want our freedom. this massacre, that would be a turning point in a fight which we never thought would be a turning point. >> you believe it is a turning point? >> yes, i'll tell you why. because most of the killing was done by the villages surrounding houla. have you houla, a very good place. in my childhood we thought of houla as a place of no significance. it wasn't just the army, it was the surrounding villages that came and did most of the killing face to face. i think we're inned midst of a fight. we always knew we would end up there if this fight goes on, and we have come to that point. >> do you agree this could be a turning point? >> i hope so. but this is, as you point out, has been going on for 14 months. as the world has sat and watched this. it's extraordinary to me to see this kind of bloodshed and this level of violence visited upon children, where the world seems unwilling to act. syria is a much more complicated situation. we said it before. it has more sophisticated air defense. and it has clients, russia, who made the russian foreign minister, made these outrageous statements recently, russia is responsible for providing the arms that are being used against syria -- >> saying it's a disco party, or it takes two to tang co. it's just not true. >> and it does belie the outrageous sort of cover that russia and the iranians are providing to the assad regime. if ever there is a point we could say, this is the turning point in houla, between the russians and iranians. the militia forces are also in there. these things coming together ought to be a turning point. >> for those who are horrified by what happened, but say, the u.s. should not be intervening in this, what are the options. >> well, look, we are now talking about difference to the russians. we went to them about a year ago, and they vetoed a resolution. we know that the russians -- we know what they will do. and we're going to the russians, the obama administration has been going to the russians repeatedly in order to be rebuffed and in order to have a cover for its own moral abdication. a lot could be done. the obama administration has brilliantly depicted the fight, and the choices for the united states as either boots on the ground or head in the sand. since we don't want to have boots on the ground, the argument is, we do nothing. when you -- you don't even hear the president talking about syria. there's no passion. and for all the time that the obama administration's been saying, oh, syria is not libya. guess what, now they say syria is yemen. now we have indeference to the russians -- >> the president needs to resign or step down. have the vice president take over. >> good luck with that. it truly is in this case, syria and yemen. and bashar al assad and his clan, 10% of the population are willing to take a hike. >> this man, for those of you who don't know, his father slaughtered 10,000 people in conservative estimates in 1982. so he comes from a tradition. it does not seem there is any limit to the number of people they are willing to kill. >> that's exactly right. basser al ashad's disadvantage is -- so many decades later, there's the internet, youtube. we see the pictures. the notion that this could go on 14 months with the videos, with the pictures, with the international community -- >> what about the rest of the arab world, saudi arabia, qatar has talked about funding to -- and maybe giving money for opposition forces to buy arms. where is the rest of the world on this. >> we remaining in the american world. the united states doesn't come to the rescue, no one will ride to the rescue. once the united states leads then the turks will follow. they will provide a buffer that the syrians need. then the qatarians will follow. but without american leadership, believe me, everyone will dodge, and everyone will wait for the united states. i used to believe if there is a syrian shivanitsa to go back to the balkans, that we were pushed into bosnia by the horror of shivanitsa, i don't know. if there was one, i don't know if we would come to the rescue. >> you talk to people in the camps, they feel like they've been abandoned, they know they've been abandoned. >> what you need is american leadership. it's a false choice that we can do nothing or put boots on the ground. frankly, the americans can provide the infrastructure and the support to pull together the international community. we can help to arm the rebels, give them the communications gears so they can get out of the way of syrian forces. we can try to provide them safe haven and safe passage. there's many things we can do short of boots on the ground. short of dropping missiles, frankly, that we're not doing, and i don't understand it. >> we'll see if it is a turning point of some sort. we had a lot of attention over the weekend which all the deaths of all the children have not gotten up until now. let me know what you think, i'm tweeting @andersoncooper. why didn't anyone in the church group come forward with a confession about etan patz. [ female announcer ] research suggests the health of our cells plays a key role throughout our entire lives. ♪ one a day women's 50+ is a complete multi-vitamin designed for women's health concerns as we age. ♪ it has more of seven antioxidants to support cell health. that's one a day women's 50+ healthy advantage. an accident doesn't have to slow you down. with better car replacement, if your car is totaled, we give you the money for a car one model year newer. liberty mutual auto insurance. welcome back. crime and punishment now. a breaking development in the case of etan patz. the new york city sanitation department has told us they've been contacted by the nypd asking about their pickup and dumping schedules dating back to 1979, which is the year that etan patz vanished. no comment yet. a man confessed to strangling and disposes the body in the trash. his name is pedro hernandez. tonight a relative claims to have reported a similar confession to police in camden, new jersey, back in the '80s. relatives said they went to police and told them that pedro hernandez told them he had killed a child. nothing ever came to it. a source says hernandez also confided to a church group. a lot of talk about tonight with lisa cohn. also former district attorney marcia clark. she's recently out with a courtroom thriller. lisa, were you surprised? you did so much research on this. you worked for years to write the book. did you know the name pedro hernandez? >> no. i didn't know it at all. that's not to say he wasn't talked to or considered. but i never heard of the many suspects whose names sort of came across my view. i never heard his name until last week. >> does the story to you make sense? i mean this was such a huge story in new york city at the time. i grew up in new york, i remember the story as a kid. the idea that he would just be able to put etan in a bag or a box and leave him out on the street to be picked up by garbage, i find it hard to believe. >> especially since it was friday of memorial day weekend. so it's unclear when exactly he put him out on the street. then there would have been saturday, sunday, and monday during which time there were hundreds of police swarming the streets looking everywhere for this missing child. >> and you would think the police at the time -- if you look at any cop show, they always check the garbage routes or whose picked up garbage. you would think they would have done that back then. >> yeah. i honestly don't know. i know there were people going rooftop to rooftop. there were helicopters flying overhead. there were dogs. there were -- i mean in hundreds. it is a little bit surprising. >> marcia, there's no evidence. just the confession of a man with a documented mental illness now pleading not guilty. there were reports that the manhattan d.a. was reluctant to sign off on the arrest, he wanted to see more corroborating evidence. what do you make of the decision to bring charges now? >> it's difficult. it's very difficult. as you mentioned, without any forensic evidence to corroborate this confession, it makes it very difficult to believe him. this is a man who has been noted to be mentally unstable who's been diagnosed as schizophrenic. this is a problem -- fundamental problem with what do we credit. now, the more statements you have for more sources that are independent of one another, the more it makes that confession possibly more reliable. so you have this church group that did not report -- no one in the church group to whom he confessed reported it. but if they match up to statements he made to the family. if they talk about intimate details that he couldn't have known by reading the television, then, perhaps, you have something. but it takes a great deal to make a confession all by itself stand up in court. >> marcia, i was asking people on twitter if they thought people in that church group should have reported to authorities what this man allegedly said in a church group -- kind of public forum. is a church group under any obligation legally to report? >> well, there is an obligation to report when you see a felony committed. i don't know if it could be prosecuted after all this time. the problem with a crime like that, if they say this guy was prone of saying all kinds of things, we didn't take him seriously. you'll have a hard time prosecuting these people for not reporting. but in general,s yeah, there is a duty to report when you have evidence of a felony, particularly a homicide. so whether anyone will be held accountable for that is very doubtful. someone should have, yes. and apart from the law, anderson, if someone is sitting in a church group and here a person confessed to murder, you don't wait to find out whether you rely on it, you report it to the police. you never know. >> right. lisa, the flip side of the argument is, while he's on medication or mentally unstable, well, who else would do this other than somebody who's mentally unstable or has some serious issue. i guess that cuts both ways. you spoke to etan's father today. how are they doing in all of this? >> they're doing okay. you know, one of the things that happens in these sorts of developments is they get besieged by the press. that ends up front and center in their minds. they're stuck in their house. they can't go outside. i think -- >> and they've been through this on and off now for 33 years. >> yeah. and he -- stan patz is one of the most methodical, calm people i know. he doesn't ever pass judgment quickly. i mean, he's had 33 years to think about things. and usually the investigation is moving along very, very slowly. >> it surprises you how this investigation has been handled. say, it's almost kind of done backwa backwards? >> well, it is. and by definition, i think that's how it has to be done. because last week somebody walked in and confessed. so i guess they had a choice. someone has in a very emotional way, in a details way given us the statement of what we're going to do. they don't have the investigative part done. now is the time to piece together everything he said and whether they can check it out. lisa cohen, thank you. marcia clark as well. thank you very much. coming up, protesters gather in north carolina to speak out against a pastor who we've reported on who said he wanted gays and lesbians put behind electric fences until they die. the pastor has been hiding from reporters. gary tuchman tracked him down. that's next. you inspired a ron howard production. with your photographs. ( younger sister ) where's heaven ? ( older sister ) far. what will you inspire, with the eos rebel t3i and ef lenses, for ron's next project ? learn more at youtube. a teacher sends sexually suggestive e-mails even in jail. we get to the emergency room... and then...and then they just wheeled him away. i had to come to that realization that "wow, i am having a heart attack." i can't punch this away. i'm on a bayer aspirin regimen. [ male announcer ] aspirin is not appropriate for everyone. so be sure to talk to you doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. i'm a fighter and nowadays i don't have that fear. 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