but today the tories refused to confirm the national living wage would reach nine pounds an hour by 2020 — as george osborne — had previously announced. our political editor nick watt is with us now. a big moment. it was. i have been trying to identify about how theresa may may take to fashion one nation conservative to her vision about how the country should be run and workers‘ rights is that the hard and the reason for that is one of her insights from brexit was notjust about to leave the eu, it was a cry of anguish from people who feel left behind by globalisation. these pledges today are designed by her to show that she really means business about making globalisation work for those people who feel left behind. she needs a mandate on this to face down critics in her own party. she lost a battle in the cabinet in the autumn about getting workers sitting on company boards, one person said this did not work in germany. that idea, it comes back, although the language and wording about who will sit on the boards is not too clear. well we will see nick's take on one nation conservatism in a moment but first, to that interview with damien green, work and pensions secretary. i asked why the tories were looking for this major shift of emphasis as the party of the worker. and he explained it was partly as a result of brexit. there were too many people who felt that the system did not give them a fair crack of the whip and theresa may has made clear that since she went into downing street making this a country that works for everyone is key to her, and a large part of that is making sure that everyone benefits from a rising tide of prosperity. there will be viewers sitting at home saying, this is quite frankly laughable, that the conservatives are trying to pitch themselves as the party of workers‘ rights, the government that tried to bring in anti—strike laws, that saw huge increases in zero hours contract, that attempted to shut down trade unions, they‘re not going to get away with this. this government has not tried to shut down trade unions, trade unions have a role to play, but people who think that making strikes more difficult is in any way anti—work or anti—ordinary people are, ijust think, wrong about that. zero hours contract, the percentage of people on zero hours contracts who are happy to have them is about 70, less than 3% of the workforce is on zero hours contract, the average amount of time worked by someone on zero hours contract is 25 hours, so actually, they‘re rather popular with the people who are on them. my point is, you can correct the perception that you don‘t care about workers‘ rights really simply, you end the public sector pay pinch. you know that you have nurses who are about to go on strike over their 1% pay rise. for the first time in 100 years, you know that you have public sector workers who are feeling the squeeze and the wages are stagnant. that‘s the way to correct that perception. wages aren‘t stagnant, we had to take difficult decisions about pay in the public sector. in fact pay progression among nurses means that the average pay increase is 3% but yes of course everyone is concerned. nurses do a greatjob, we‘ve got more nurses than ever before. you‘re short of 40,000 nurses, that suggests there is a problem for you with drawing people into the profession. there are still more people applying and places for training and so on. and we have got thousands more nurses than there were in 2010. but there is a wider range of aspects to workers‘ rights than just pay. pay has gone up particularly at the bottom end of the pay scale because of the introduction of the national living wage, which we now pledged to keep increasing until 2022, because of that, those at the bottom end of the pay scale have had particularly high pay rises, they‘ve had an average of 6% over the last two years, as compared to inflation running at about 2%. so let‘s look at the national living wage, then. will that be would george osborne set out as chancellor, £9 an hour by 2020? it will be, we‘re doing it on the basis of the suggested projection by george bain, who used to run the low pay unit... will it reach £9 an hour by 2020? it depends on what average earnings are, because what he said was that the national living wage should be 60% of the median wage. so if wages don‘t rise as much, will you fill that gap and make sure it gets to £9 an hour? we said we are aiming at 60%, it‘s below 60% right now so this will guarantee an increase over the coming years, exactly how far it goes, the projection... so it might not get to £9 an hour, that is something you have to accept it will go up, we‘re aiming for 60% of median wages, obviously it will depend upon what happens to average earnings. right, so you‘ve got labour saying... £10 an hour, a nice fat round sum, and you‘ve got the conservatives saying, we‘re not quite sure, it depends on the median average raise and the rate at which it goes up, that‘s a fairly stark choice if you‘re looking at workers‘ rights. except that what we‘re doing, with that and with the other part of this proposal, are making a practical set of proposals, clearly you have to balance the national living wage, as we do both in terms of taking sure people are paid a fair amount and making sure that the jobs are available for them to do, that you are not pricing them out of the jobs market. we have been spectacularly successful at getting people into work, we have created the best part three mini extra jobs, we‘ve got more people in employment never before. more women in employment than ever before. falling youth unemployment. we don‘t want to put that at risk but at the same time we do want to have a national living wage that enables people to live decently, that is what we are achieving. another labour commitment is maximum pay ratios, 20/i. in the public sector or anyone tending for public sector work, will you stick to that kind of pay ratio? i think having arbitrary pay ratios like that probably isn‘t the best way to help workers, i think the proposal... it sends out a signal that you know that the people at the top can‘t carry on getting inordinate amounts more money than the people at the bottom. sending out a signal is what governments in the past have done too often, what we are proposing is a practical package of measures that will make a difference to people in their real lives, the ability to take time off to train, the ability to take time off to be a carer, the knowledge that because we giving extra powers to the pensions regulator, that your workplace pension will be better protected in future, that is what will make a difference to people in their daily lives, rather than arbitrary... so you get a year off to look after somebody, unpaid, you are giving people a year of unpaid leave. the opportunity to that, we‘ve... what happens if you can‘t afford it? we‘ve looked at the system in ireland, where this system works perfectly well, and most people don‘t take the full year, it‘s often a much shorter period, while you sort out... if you‘re a low paid worker and somebody is offering you a year to look after your elderly parent, without money, that‘s not such a bargain. different people will have different individual circumstances in theirfamilies. this is about workers‘ rights, isn‘t it? and the right to be able to say, look, something has happened in my family, i need to take a couple of months off before i can sort out the new situation, and knowing that yourjob is guaranteed at the end of that, that removes a significant amount of stress from people perhaps particularly at a difficult time of their lives, that is a proper practical extra workers right. let‘s look at a very practical example of workers‘ rights, uber is trying to renew its licence next month, is a tory government going to insist that it will improve its workers‘ rights before the licence is guaranteed? i don‘t want to talk about individual companies... why not? ..because i think that‘s unfair. we have set up quite deliberately in this area of what we will now call the gig economy, where uber drivers and deliveroo... you know very well, uber was taken to court, it was found wanting in terms of its care for its workers, so you could say, "we are the party of workers‘ rights. we will not guarantee a new licence for uber until it changes the way that it deals with its workers". making laws to deal with individual companies is often a way to make bad laws. so let‘s look at the whole sector, and that is what we are doing, we have set matthew taylor to do a report precisely on those sorts ofjobs. when labour says, we want to intervene in the market and look at rail nationalisation, you call them socialist, marxists, back to the 70s... but, you know, when the tories suggest intervention in, you know, the energy sector, it‘s somehow standing up for workers‘ rights? i don‘t call labour socialist or marxists, they call themselves socialists, and in the case ofjohn mcdonnell, marxists. they‘re not proposing intervention, they‘re proposing renationalisation of rail, of energy... of markets that don‘t work. but what they want to do is have it run by a state monopoly, and everyone over a certain age can remember what happened... two years ago it would have been crazy to intervene in the energy sector when it was the desire of ed miliband, his suggestion, that it is absolutely right because it is theresa may and a tory policy, that is what people have a problem with, they do not understand where you stand on this. it‘s a different policy. ed miliband‘s policy was for a freeze. his actual policy was particularly daft because he said he was going to freeze prices just before the oil price fell, which actually reduced prices, his freeze would have kept prices artificially high. we say it is a cap on certain types of tariff if companies are not treating their customers properly. damian green, thank you. it has been announced that the moors murderer ian brady has died. ian brady and myra hindley sexually tortured and murdered five children between 1963 and 1965. the couple buried at least some of the bodies of saddleworth moor. ian brady died at a psychiatric hospital on merseyside and he takes to the grave the location of one of his victims, keith bennett. there have been desperate pleas from the boys relatives for ian brady to reveal his burial site. we are joined by the former is police officer who represents the victims. this isjust broken in the last few minutes, give us your first thoughts. my first thoughts are that these two individuals, myra hindley and ian brady, they murdered five young children, one of whom was lesley ann downey and i represented herfamily. when they murdered her, she was only ten years of age, she was lost on the moors and they recorded but they actually did to her. i remember staying with her mother and father, a number of times and i met them dozens of times and the grief and torment that i saw in their faces was beyond probably many that i have actually met. i have met hundreds of families who have had somebody murdered. is dreadful, there‘s never a nice way for somebody to be murdered. to know that your daughter was lost, alone and murdered and then her death was recorded, the grief can never ever be etched from your mind and those two individuals, myra hindley and ian brady, they did notjust destroy the lives of five young children, their relentless appeals and false hopes that they gave the families, for over 50 yea rs, destroyed all of the families as well, even to this day. he never released the burial site of keith bennett and that family never recovered. keith‘s mother went to her grave tormented in the way that you describe, having begged him many times, do you understand that mentality? they both had serious psychological issues and they played mind games when we get up and we have had bad days, we hope the next day will be better, but when you have had someone murdered, certainly in the circumstances that myra hindley and ian brady murdered them, that is torture that exists 24/7 and you can never comprehend it. i sometimes try to comprehend how these families exist and when i look into their faces, i see an emptiness and with every murder, time stops and life changes and for all the victims of myra hindley and ian brady, life changed forever. they had a life sentence for over 50 years and today, i do not know if it will bring closure to anyone because sadly many of their families, parents have died as well. norman, you raise a really interesting point when you talk about psychological issues, because this case caused something of... i don‘t know, a complication in the public mind, this idea of mental ill health against pure evil, people said they were not mentally ill, that this was pure evil? you are right, you are absolutely right, i describe myra hindley and ian brady as two of the most evil people i have ever met, and they are evil beyond belief. and maybe the two of them tried to fool prison authorities with their mind games, by playing mind games about the state of mind that they committed those murders, and not everybody who commits a murder is psychiatrically ill. probably, they weren‘t psychiatrically ill, but they tried to convince us, and every time they tried to convince us, it‘s twisted the knife in the wings of all of those families a little more. and many of them, as i say, they have died without peace, i remember seeing the mother of lesley ann downey, torment on herface, and i have seen many dead bodies as a police officer. and i hope there is respite for the family still alive today. those families that have lived with over 50 years of grief and pure torment. thank you for sharing your time with us this evening, we appreciate it. returning to the election news now. we‘ve heard about one nation conservatism — as a modern concept — for the best part of a decade. but what does that mantel mean — and can anyone wear it. here‘s nick watt again. two nations between whom there is no intercourse and no sympathy. who are as ignorant of each other‘s habits, thoughts and feelings as if they were dwellers in different zones. or inhabitants of different planets. sounds familiar? a century and a half after benjamin disraeli‘s earring description of a nation divided by poverty, theresa may is casting herself as the true guardian of his unifying one nation credo. in the prime minister‘s mind, today‘s announcement of new workers‘ rights delivered on her pledge to unite the nation after the referendum. theresa may believes that "brexit" marked a cry from people who feel left behind by globalisation, she wants to show how the economy can work for all and scoop up labour votes. we can see the tory party return as the one nation party geographically, i‘m not sure ideological, but geographically, yes, and it looks likely to pick up seats in the north, in the midlands, maybe a comeback in scotland and seats in wales as well, if you think about the way a stole seats from the lib democrats last time, that is a party that can claim, probably for the first time, at least since the 1980s and pro will be since the 1950s, to represent the whole of the country. but electoral success then, and possibly next month, was notjust about geography. this may not be a long—term gain for the tory party but on this occasion, i think it is likely that theresa may and the conservative party will pull together a combination of people, almost in the way that ronald reagan did in the united states. pulling together people who were traditionally democrat, traditionally labour, through ukip, into the tory column. winning wide support would free theresa may to govern according to her vision of benjamin disraeli‘s one nation. mayism will have some resonance with the right, she reached out to ukip, saying that we are citizens of nowhere, but the one nation claim on the tory left will welcome today‘s pledges on workers‘ rights. the prime minister‘s own philosopher king, nick timothy, who crafted "mayism", was inspired by one of the great municipal figures, joe chamberlain. he is actually the right inspiration for this, he was very clear, when he became mayor of birmingham, and indeed, he went on to do national politics, but he believed in a vibrant industrial—based economy, to improve in his words not mine, the conditions of the masses. to many conservatives, the new west midlands mare revives the template on how to reach out beyond tory comfort zones. the tradition of one nation conservatism, of course, is a real fervent belief that the public services must be first—class, have to be well funded, and in that sense, that is exactly what success in the economic policies, industrial policy, eg of a new era of one nation politics. it‘s very difficult to sustain the argument that a theresa may government on june nine, elected by millions of ukip voters, advocating fox hunting and selective education and hard brexit, is somehow representative of the rebirth of one nation