and it's a place ofjoy, imagination. it's where you can just truly escape and dream about what's possible. and i've been committed to that idea since i was a small child, and i guess it never left me. and we are, of course, going to talk much more about disney. but i'd like to just get a sense first of who you are and how you got here. i think you were born on rhode island, in rhode island, and grew up in a single—parent family. your mother worked two jobs to support you and your sister. and as i said at the beginning, you've talked about being bullied. what was it about watching cinderella that helped you cope? oh, i think definitely the part about cinderella that i'm most connected with is... she was mistreated by her own family, which is even more upsetting. but she stayed true to herself. she didn't believe them when they treated her like she was less than them. and i think for children, when a child's bullied, they tend to eventually believe the bullies. they think, "i am... i must be the problem." and cinderella didn't. and then her life got better. these beautiful things happened, things evolved, and she brought her authentic self to the ball, i'd like to say. and...and that, in my opinion, is what shined through, was the time of love at first sight and things in all fairy tales. but that's not really what it was about for me. it was about that... and even the beauty of the fairy godmother, of this trusting there will be people out there who can see you for who you are, the best of you, and will help you and look for them. and it helped me persevere through it. and i look back on it now, and i think it helped drive me towards what i do now. hmm. when you were at college, you've talked about this, but i'm sorry to bring it up, but when you were at college, a close friend died. tell me about that and the impact that had on your future life. yeah. jason and i had been a couple for... we met the first day of college, so we were very close, and he had died in a boating accident. and i think when you're 20 years old, and it's the most invincible time for most people, that feeling, and you're faced with grief for the first time, true—love grief, you...you really have nothing to stand on. you have nothing to hold on to. you don't have layers of life, i should say, to help you get through. so i think it was... ..it was a time where i think of my life before and my life after. and it—it—it truly changed me. the world changed colour. i looked at the world differently. i was very acutely aware of life, the fragility of it, but also that we're meant to live it as much as we can. so i think for someone who often lived with fear a lot, i would think of him, and i still do, about making sure that i'm walking through that fear and i'm going after the things in life that are truly living. and it all comes back to him. and that's pushing away self—doubt when it comes into your head. 0h, huge... i mean, yeah, as self—doubt... we're old friends. and i think a lot of us go through that. i think self—doubt can really get in the way, because it makes it so when you hear criticism, if you're an artist, i'd say, especially, or anything that is something you care about, your work, you can take it personally and it can...it can stop you from evolving or growing. and i think when you feel confident enough that you deserve to be just even in the room you're in and doing what you're doing, you can take that criticism constructively. and i do think part of having a long career in whatever you love is being able to handle those failures, being able to listen in a way that's about bettering your craft and not about filling some pain in your ego, you know? and that's a painful thing to say, but it's true. disney will say, "leave your ego at the door," which doesn't mean your...your big ego. it means your vulnerability. leave your. ..leave your insecurities at the door and come in and just create. now, you went to film school quite late. you went to film school in your 30s. you then co—wrote the computer animated comedy wreck—it ralph for disney, which was nominated and won an oscar. but it was your next screenplay, frozen, that would change everything. what were you trying to do with that movie? and can you explain, looking back, why it was such a hit and continues to be? i think what's interesting with frozen is one of the things, and it came from chris buck right from the start, is he knew he wanted to tell a story about true love, but it was about familial love, not romantic love. so he's your co—writer? he's the co—director. and when i came on to the project, what he really appreciated is... especially someone who. .. i am the youngest of two sisters, and i look up to my sister, she's my elsa. i am very much like anna. and that authenticity of voice and... ..how we really wanted to earn that relationship with the sisters. he and i fought a lot about olaf, until we found the right olaf. and i say fight in quotes, because we don't really fight. but in wanting to have a character that represented innocence, the most innocent love, and that is of a child, or of pure snow, as we'd say, and those kind of discoveries we got to make together. it was really about that celebration of the power of love over fear. and i think that's... i had seen a lot of good and evil stories, but one of the things i was seeing in the world a lot, too, is how fear can dominate and be crippling. and the original story, the snow queen, its themes really deal with negativity, which is very similar. so i think we wanted to put a film out that helped to show how to conquer fear with love. and you won an oscar for frozen. i mean, certainly here in the uk, i know in america, most places around the world, every child, girl and boy, was obsessed with that film. but why did it tap into the zeitgeist? i mean, there are plenty of great films, and that one is obviously brilliant. but why? i mean, i think we'll be asking the question forever. i think we were just hoping that people would like it. we, um, had a very short schedule on it. i don't think we had time to question what we were creating, but i don't think we knew. i mean, i look at it now and the one thing when i think about let it go, i say, "well, all of us and any age, why wouldn't we want to sing "a rebellion song like that?" it's so empowering. and i do think what i love about it is, is how the character is very grounded and relatable and flawed. but i'm just grateful. but i don't...| don't know. i don't know. you have said in the past that one of the ways that your creativity works, and the best ways to be creative, of course, is to accept that things evolve and change and actually something you've written in there needs to go. and you've said with frozen that if it had stayed the way you'd written it, it wouldn't have been the movie it was. and i've always wondered, what was it? what would have been so different? what would we not have got? the very first version that i even worked on, and which was when i was brought on, elsa was still a villain. she was a villain character. and...and it was... ..it was an interesting thing, because the struggle with that is we kept sympathising with her so much. born with these powers she didn't ask for, sort of treated... misunderstood. and so bobby and kristen wrote let it go over a weekend, which is incredible to me. and it had that... it was supposed to sort of represent her transition. all you did was just agree with her. ijust was like, "you go, girl." and wejust said, "this is wrong. "we have to change." so we rewrote the whole movie. but that was probably the biggest thing. i mean, of course, you didn'tjust write it. you also co—directed it, becoming the first woman ever to direct a disney animated feature film. were you intentionally busting disney stereotypes, on screen as well as off? what's interesting, just me personally, is i didn't know i was the first woman until the movie was being released and i was being told that. i mean, i had been in this industry, used to being one of the only women in a room at the time, which has changed tremendously since then, at least in the decade. that's great. great to see. so i don't think that i knew. i think when it came to stereotypes, though, i wouldn't say chris and i ever talked about that, except to say what we really want to do with frozen was recognise tropes and flip tropes. so there's a lot of tropes you'll see, like just even the love at first sight. my philosophy — good advice, might be — get to know him, meet his family, you know, and like... so we had fun flipping those tropes. but i always say i never can build a movie from outside in, with an agenda. like, you can't. you can't do that. you always have to go from character out. but in a lot of that, you bring a lot of yourself to that, because, you know, you know your own human experience, i guess. i suppose people, when we think about disney, older people anyway, we think about the sort of disney princess stereotype, you know, snow white wanting to find her prince, all of that, sleeping beauty, whoever it might be. i think a new york times profile described you as the disney hotshot who's finally helping dismantle the myth of the white knight. how do you... do you read that, do you embrace that reputation? well, i mean, it's funny, because i don't think disney is to blame for the white knight, because i think that if you think about the majority of european fairy tales, it was of an era, and there's a lot of that comes from that. and to say — i think if you look at our history, we did a lot of adaptations, and a lot of people have done these adaptations of these classic, powerful fairy tales. the big thing is, we were doing original. we were — i mean, even from the snow queen, which doesn't have that, you know, it originally had two small kids and a snow queen. it was very poetic. so we reallyjust took the themes from it. and i felt very free to just make something original, and i think that in doing so, like, you'll end up with very different kinds of heroes. so i don't think it's — i mean, it's funny, but it's like the white knight concept. you know, as someone who enjoyed king arthur's stories when i was young, it's of a time and i think it's ok to recognise that, but then also to know that, yeah, we are in this world. at some point we all have to be our own heroes, and that's just — that's just, i think what this world is now and that's ok. can you tell us of your role now, i mean, what is it? because you were appointed chief creative officer of walt disney animation studios in 2018, but you also co—wrote and directed frozen ii a year later, and you still executive produced movies like encanto. yeah. i'lljust say — i'll say it, there's some ways where i'm like, i'm crazy, and that's not — we love crazy. do you get any time off? i... sometimes i don't and sometimes i do. i will say one of the things that... bob iger really said this, and i think it was a great approach, is having the cc0 be film—maker, a director or writer, having the president be a producer. so the president and i work with clark spencer, who produced encanto, produced zootopia and wreck—it ralph, and so we are film—makers at the core, and i think that's important. so as a film—maker... so you're greenlighting projects, you're involved in the creative decision making. absolutely. yeah. but i've been there, and then as a film—maker, i want to still keep making films, and i will hopefully get, you know, i have the privilege of this job for a bit more, and then decide i want to go back to film—making. or i think creative leaders run their course, because creativity is about evolution, and i'll know when that time is. so as much as i feel like i can bring to the room, i'll do that, and when i think it's time... ..my goal is training the next generation. that's important at disney. it's critical. and this new generation is dynamic, powerful, and very talented, and it'll be their time. so i think that's, that's the foundation of it, is creatively helping each other. i'm interested in how tastes have changed for all of us over a century. disney's making live action versions of its movies. i saw that the former screenwriter involved in the bambi remake said bambi's mother's death scene should be reworked, as parents are more sensitive now. what's your take on bambi? oh, interesting. it's hard for me to say. i have a different philosophy, and i think it's because i spent so much time studying fairy tales, and what — understanding that fairy tales really are a place for us to safely explore some of the tough things in life, and show ways of persevering. so i'm not of the camp of the change because... ..i mean with — i suffered a lot of loss as a child, and unusual loss, and bambi was there for me, it had been. so i won't be that person, but other people have different ideas and i respect that. i think it's just — i understand what fairy tales... ..the power of what fairy tales can do to help us through those things. but i suppose tastes are changing. people are mentioning snow white and the seven dwarves, for example. is it true that in the new live action remake there won't be a handsome prince, or indeed seven dwarves? i actually know nothing about the live action remake. because you're animation. i think...yeah. i think people think that we work together on them, and we don't. so i don't have an answer. i don't know. should there be? should there be a handsome prince? well, i don't — i mean, we've got a handsome villain. i don't mind that. but i think that's... everyone likes a bad boy these days. well, i think it's funny. it's hard for me to answer, because it becomes a loaded question, which it's not, is that going — look, again, snow white is based on a fairy tale. a fairy tale that was set at a time, and that comes with the territory, but it's come to represent something. so it's like if we declared and say there won't be this prince, or they won't be that, i think it's saying there that we are going to deny whatever character is needed for the story, which i won't do. so, i mean, we've gota king, we've got a queen, we've got asha, who's an ordinary hero in wish. and these are — it's all going to be about building the story from character out. so i can't say no and i can't say yes, because it's all going to depend on the story. and, you know, and to me, i'd rather tell a story where you're seeing — if there is a handsome prince, you're seeing him in a way you've never seen him before. that's more exciting to me. and as somebody who's had such a close relationship with the disney brand forso long, i mean, do you believe it's right to judge characters of the past through modern eyes? i mean, i'm thinking of king louie from thejungle book on disney+. ahead of that, you have this sort of message about the film, including negative depictions and/or mistreatment of people or cultures. and it talks about stereotypes which were wrong then and are wrong now. what's your take on that? i think for me is we have to respect the impact these characters have, and that as we change over time, we're going to look at it differently. but i think to me it is recognising that that's the most important thing that we do. and it's hard to stay... ..it�*s hard for me to say in the canon of something i was not a part of what the intent was. we're in a different world now too, where you do get instant feedback from the world, notjust from one or two individuals. everyone has the microphone, and it's a very different environment, and i think it holds us to different standards with each other, that we have to be open. we're never going to get it all right, though, because storytelling needs to be storytelling, and if you write storytelling with every possible criticism in your head, or every kind of way, you're not going to make characters, because characters are flawed. characters make mistakes. characters sometimes are stereotypical, and they're that for reason in order to confront it, or in order for them to face something. and i do find the hardest thing for me as a writer is just when i feel — i hear people say, i don't want a character who does this, or i want to make sure it represents that. one character can never represent a whole group either. but i hear what you're saying, because those conversations are really important, but it's just an interesting thing of going, storytelling has to come with the flaws. and i suppose you must face these sorts of tensions all the time in your role, as a boss of a company trying to operate around the world. i mean, do you face censorship of your movies in different parts of the world, that, you know, you're trying to balance the fact that you want to make a movie that has broad appeal, that the chinese will allow, the saudis will allow, whoever it might be, that they'll find bits offensive that, you know, would be offensive to people in britain or the us, if you didn't put them in? i don't know whether that's lgbtq+ characters or whatever it might be. our whole thing is, in order to keep evolving as storytellers, and we want to tell the stories of the world by the people of the world, and that's going to be sometimes, in some parts of the world, it's not going to be, they're not going to connect with it, or they're not going to allow it in the country. and we have to be careful, because i think we have to stay true to that story. and there are things... so you'd fight that censorship? you'd say, ok, we'll take it, we won't let it go there. we just won't. as far as — and i can't speakfor every studio, but as far as we've been, we just, we just don't go in the territory, and i think that's because, it's really interesting again, as saying characters, stories, they can be universal. things that can be universal to me are those emotions, the things that connect us as human beings, and all we all go through, no matter what walk of life we are or where we come from. but when it comes to the rules of one particular country, we can't. we can't think that way, or we're not going to actually make characters who are specific and true to themselves. and they always say generic characters are the worst characters of all. those who are just trying to tick all these boxes or protect all these certain requirements. it's not a character. i mean, of course, there has, you know, there's been a big story at the moment, which was the strikes which must have impacted you and your film—making. and there's obviously been good news for movie lovers. the hollywood writers�* strike has finally come to an end. are you happy with the agreement? iam. i'm a writer also, and my husband's an actor. were you on strike? no, so it was interesting about — i mean, obviously, i'm in this current role right now, but animation, writers for animation are covered under a different guild. so animation, when writing for animation, that was not a part of it. did it impact frozen iii? well, no. it's very funny you ask that question. i will say it didn't, in that our writers are still there. i mean, we're doing an animation. we've been lucky, through some of these difficult things, to be able to keep going in some ways, because of the layered technology we have and how we build ourfilms. what we did in planning ahead is we did bank a lot of voice recording. so we have, you know, we have longer we can go, but not much longer before we'd move dates, like other people. but we're doing what we can to — so my most, the most important thing i can do right now is keep everyone working. so in your part of the business, have you not had, so far, to put any movies on hold? not yet. no. and it is, of course, a difficult time for the movie business more widely, not least the strikes, but also disney. you know, streaming services are losing subscribers. there's been a drop off in advertising revenue, attendance at disney theme parks i think is down, as is cinema going. what's morale like in the company as you come to this century? well, you know, i think in many ways we've been through a lot, and i think, you know, particularly going through covid that showed us what we could do. i mean, and we did two plus movies, almost three, completely from home, 400 to 500 people, in all different places. and we created cohesive films, including encanto. and so it showed us what we can do, and i think that people are very aware of the shift in like bringing the box office back, the power of what streaming can do, but what — how it's changing the industry. and all we tend to do is we stay together as much as possible. we talk about what we've learned, what we're learning, where everyone�*s adapting, knowing like — part of being 100 years old is so much has happened that you know you can persevere through. and we had a lot of fun making wish this year because we wanted it to be a joyous celebration, and we really included the whole studio, and folks got very involved, and so it's been — that's been the great charge for us. you're a woman of many firsts. disney also, you know, through the 100 years, has been known for championing, you know, for having so many firsts, not least in new technology. so the first full length animated feature film was snow white in 1937, the first full length computer generated animated feature, toy story, 1995. what are you doing with al? is thatjust part of the newjourney? currently, i mean, there's — al's such an interesting word, because there's so many elements of ai that, you know, scheduling, that aren't connected to creativity. for us, we are in the studio not using ai in a major way, because part of what is the most important to us is the authenticity of being created by the artist itself, and that connection. so you're not using it, did you say? we're not using ai. i mean, i shouldn't — and again, i say that, but then go, but i don't know. technology wise, ai means a lot of different things, but what i mean by that is we're not using it to build our creative at all. right. and when it comes, you know, when you think back to those early movies that were sort of hand—drawn, so beautiful, there was a report a while ago, more than ten years ago, that disney had laid off most of its hand—drawn animators. is that still the case, or do you incorporate hand—drawn into your... ? well, we have, we still have... ..in fact, wejust had an... when i got back, we started a whole intern programmejust for the next generation of hand—drawn animators. so we do. and in this, the london film festival, we're going to be showing a short that we just did to celebrate the 100th, where we have our hand—drawn characters and our cgi characters together. and all the hand—drawn is brand—new, every single, every single frame of it. so we are still committed to hand—drawn. absolutely. and you mentioned wish. this is one of my last questions, but in terms of wish, there's a lot riding on it, in the sense that it's the one that comes out for the century. do you feel that it — or how does it encapsulate disney, your movie? were you very much thinking, "we must encapsulate the disney values "even more than we ever have done before"? i think that the key for us is we knew how we wanted to celebrate the legacy. we knew we wanted it to be a fairy tale musical. we knew we wanted to find a way to advance the technology, where we could go seamlessly from that beautiful watercolour styles in the past into contemporary, notjust look, but the whole, built into the whole framework of this, of the cg. we knew we wanted a villain. those are the things we knew. but most importantly, we said, in order to be... ..notjust be, you know, nodding to the past, we had to be looking ahead. so one of our first original fairy tales, like not based on, of the classic fairy tales, not based on, you know, hans christian andersen or brothers grimm or something. so we wanted to do an originalfairy tale. we knew that audiences today, they want to know more about the villains, not just the arch villain. how can we play with that and go dimensional, and really do something new with the villain and with the music? julia michaels is 29 years old. she's the new generation and she's fantastic. she loves disney classics, but she's contemporary pop artist. so how can we push the music and be looking ahead? so for us, it was important that it is a film that stood on its own. but, you know, it's called wish, and wishing is one of the most important concepts in disney, that idea of possibility, hope, wonder, your imagination. but also we said we want to look at your responsibility to your wish, how that drives, what drives your heart, what are you willing to do to accomplish it, make it active? so we did things where we loved, again, sort of the tropes that we love, but how do we bring them forward into a new — in a new way? and most importantly, that we wanted to have fun, really just celebrate. i think that's, you know, that's probably... ..one of the biggest things that comes from the spirit of what disney is. thank you very much for speaking to us, jennifer lee, thank you for coming on the media show. it's lovely to be here. thank you for having me. hello there. we've got more heavy rain, more strong winds as we head into thursday, all due, of course, to storm ciaran. that's been tracking its way right the way across the atlantic, heading over the southwest of england. now, it will move eastwards towards east anglia. it will bring more heavy rain and given how wet it's been in october, that could lead to some flooding. the winds also could potentially be dangerous and hazardous, bringing some disruption. this is where we've got the amber wind warnings from the met office. the winds already picking up in the southwest, those stronger winds will transfer through the english channel to affect coastal areas in the southeast of england. the winds are likely to be even stronger for a while in the channel islands — gusts of over 90 mph, already had gusts of 100 mph along the coast of brittany. so, some really strong winds across the far south of the uk. could be quite windy in other areas, and around the storm, around that low pressure, we've got these showers of longer spells of rain. as the wind picks up in scotland, it will get wetter here. we may miss the worst of the wet weather in northern ireland. temperature—wise, well, of course, nothing to write home about — a cool 10—12 degrees. but at least during the afternoon, the winds in the southwest will start to ease, and that's because the storm is going to be tracking away, and at the same time, it will be weakening. so, as we get into friday, the area of low pressure, what was the storm, is going to be sitting out in the north sea. so, it's not going to be as windy on friday, it's not going to be as wet. there'll be some sunshine, but also some showers blown in, and there'll still be some blustery winds. the windiest weather, perhaps the wettest weather will be across eastern scotland and the northeast of england. and those temperatures may be a degree or so higher, but still only 12—13 degrees at best. now, as we head into the weekend, we see that area of low pressure continuing to fade away in the north sea. another one coming in from the atlantic — not expecting this one to be named because the winds aren't going to be as strong. the strong winds will still be through the english channel, but we've got more rain to come across southern parts of the uk, into wales, in the midlands, followed by some showers. further north, there'll be some sunshine and perhaps a few showers as well, and those temperatures not really changing a great deal. so, after all this very wet and very windy weather, we've got some more rain on saturday for the southern half of the uk and then we're all in the same boat on sunday — sunshine and showers and not as windy. live from washington, this is bbc news. a long awaited escape route is open from gaza to egypt. hundreds are able to leave, millions more remain behind. us president biden credits intense and urgent diplomacy for opening the crossing. us citizens are among the 335 foreign nationals to pass through. there have been flashes in gaza city overnight is israel continues its strikes on the territory. and donald trumer begins his testimony into the fraud trial regarding the trump family business. i'm sumi somaskanda. welcome to our show. a key border crossing out of gaza is now partially open for civilians for the first time in more than three weeks. the rafah crossing on the border between gaza and egypt had only allowed a limited number of aid trucks. more than 300 people have been allowed to leave through the crossing. palestinian officials say 335 of them are foreign passport holders, and another 76 are injured gazans taken to hospitals across the border. the international humanitarian agency, medecins sans