but he'll gets the greenlight, but how soon could the captives be released. that's tonight on news night. good evening, i'm abby philip in new york. an outline gets approved and restore hope for 50 families. tonight, a significant majority of israel's cabinet said yes to a deal that trains -- trades israeli hostages during hamas suffrage terror attacks on october 7th. in exchange, israel will grant what i forget polls in the fighting and gaza. a senior u.s. official is telling cnn, and the last, hour three americans could be part of this deal that message from the israeli government also gives hamas and incentive to release even more hostages. for every ten abducted israelis or people in captivity that get your freedom, that translates to another full day of stoppage of fighting in gaza. hamas, minutes ago, confirmed this deal and they say that 150 or so palestinians held in israeli jails will be released as part of this agreement. let's get straight to matthew chance. he's and tel aviv for us. matthew, went to we anticipate that we will see the first of his hostages returning to israel? >> reporter: well, it's going to be at least 24 hours from now, at the, because under israeli law, there has to be a 24-hour grace period when it comes to releasing palestinians prisoners, which as you mentioned is an integral part of this deal. a grace period to allow appeals to the supreme court, by israelis, or anyone else. people who want to try and stop that from happening. it's not necessarily going to be a real obstacle, but it's kind of like a legal hurdle that has to be jumped over before we actually implementation of the deal. under israeli law. so we're looking at sort of thursday, local time, about 24 hours or so from now. that we are expecting to see the first hostages released under the steel. although, of course, remember, no real timeframe has been given. and so it's slightly speculative to give an exact time. when this is going to actually take place. >> still a little bit more waiting for these families. matthew chance, we'll be back with you if there are any updates. thank you. and for more on this now, and how this all came to gather. of eight as joins me. he's a senior israeli diplomat at the new york consulate and former consul general in chicago. aviva, thank you so much for being here. again, can you tell us what took so long? it took about six and a half hours for the israeli cabinet to approve the steal. >> first of all, i think the entire process was complicated and i think this is the -- thank the administration, specifically, the president weighing in and making a real difference. when it came to the government, the cabinet in israel, it went to three processes. the war cabinet, security cabinet, and then the full cabinet, we are the entire ministers and government or so. take the entire back and forth was based on an understanding that we're going to be giving and return is also and ability for hamas to regroup, re-arm, and recharge and then come back -- so the entire deal is a complicated deal, but we want to make sure our hostages rebecca. this is that number one priority of the government -- we have invested a lot of time and effort and them. >> i'm hearing is, at the major sticking point was not so much the palestinian prisoners that are being returned, but the amount of time that there would be a pause in the fight. and >> on senators a lot of variables in the equation. there is about list of who's going to be returned -- to the other side is the status of the deal itself. what i want to emphasize is we're not talking about an exchange of prisoners. we're talking about 15 babies, mothers without babies, babies without mothers, not arizona, two years old, four years old, six years old, eight years old. and we're talking about an event where -- >> can you tell us more about the logistics of how this will occur? >> i don't have the exact details of how it will occur. but i think it's going to be gradual in a manner that the mechanism will be created that the hamas will hopefully stand for its application. on the other hand, israel will deliver the pause we have been talking about. we're talking about 50 israeli innocent civilians that were captured and will be brought back, and in return for days of a pause. and the mechanism that allows us. use it and incentive for hamas to continue releasing innocent civilians, children, babies, elderly. and in return for every -- this is that trading of horses hamas is doing. it's a transactional act for them. but would like to release as many innocent civilians as possible. >> do you expect hamas will hold up their end of the bargain in terms of stopping the fighting on their ends? this is a great question. we know there are not trustworthy. >> we have experienced in the past, they promised they were going to be stopping the fire. in return, they continued after the specific date we mentioned. our goal is for example -- objected. his body was objected by hamas and the previous cycle. so we, as the president says, we don't trust and we verify. >> to you know exactly who is hostages are who will be released in this first tranche? >> i don't have the details. i don't think we have the exact details at this point. i know it's heartbreaking and not words to describe, mind-boggling for the families. hopefully we know very soon. i know it's going to be mostly children, their mothers, and the elderly. so we are talking about families that hopefully will not be broken, will be brought back to israel sooner rather than later. >> can you tell us about these palestinians who are being released from israeli prison? our understanding is that there are 100 of them, women and teens and in israeli prisons right now. what are the accused of and are you comfortable with this exchange? >> that list will be published soon, actually, tomorrow. because there has to be a judicial procedure if families hurt by these terrorists, because they're convicted minor terrorists, who stabbed an israeli or a women who have created a terrorist attack and were convicted in a court of law. but i don't have the details about the names. that will be published to allow victims of the families to really go through that judicial process and go to the higher court in israel. i don't expect that will be an obstacle. hopefully this will move sooner. >> as this was being negotiated, you mentioned president biden was extremely helpful in getting these final detailed sorted out. can you tell us more about the role the white house played? what was it that president biden to help get this to the finish line? >> i could say, i can't elaborate about all of the details, but i can say the following. we don't speak with hamas. the doesn't united states doesn't speak with hamas. but qatar, for example, does speak with hamas. other players like egypt does speak with hamas. the idea was to create an investment and making sure that negotiation would bear fruit. i think what the president, personally, wait and made the difference that actually brought more hostages to be afraid. also american citizens including the three year old epigeal that will be released. and his personal involvement made a difference, no doubt about it. and the prime minister has specifically thing the president for his involvement. we don't take it for granted. the intelligence agencies and many more players that were involved. >> the last thing. it could be 24 hours, maybe more, before anyone leaves gaza. will the idf continue its campaign of bombings in this intervening time? >> 100% yes and i'll tell you why. we know that hamas are not boy scouts. the reason that want to go for a deal like that is only because they feel the pressure. nathan breath of air and that's why they agree to. that >> is there a risk that could scuttle the deal? >> is there? >> is there a risk that continue the bombing could scuttle this deal? >> i think once the deal will go into place, including the fact they will release the hostages, the police will kick in. >> thank you so much, aviv ezra, i really appreciate you joining us tonight. tonight, many israeli families are waiting for word about whether their loved ones are going to be part of that release of these hostages in gaza. i want to introduce now one of those family members. her cousin is currently held hostage by hamas. maya has joined us on this program before. maya, you just heard what consulate general aviv ezra just said. any reaction to that news of this deal and anything you may have just heard? >> i think aviv spoke very eloquently. i think, you know, my family like all the other families is going to go through a terrible week. we don't know if my cousin is going to be amongst those released in this round. and as it seems, worked on to have to wait and see every day who are going to be released the following day. and that's going to be extremely hard. already, we see it's causing a lot of tensions among the different families and it's going to be hard. at the same time, you know, without any cynicism, i am proud of my government. i think this is a good deal. this is what we wanted for our loved ones to start coming back. and you see, as israel keeps saying what is important for us, it is life and live in. we are willing to exchange more people and to get your people back, to give the cease-fire. because the one thing that's important as here is to get the hostages back and me and my family kept faith all this time. that our government really was pushing the hostages at the top of the priority list. and a steal, you know, makes us feel like that face has been rewarded, in a way. of course, it doesn't mean that we're complacent. we are still worried. for us, the families have all got together. i feel for every other family. whether your debt gets released now or not, we have to get everyone back and we know it's going to be a long and arduous process. so, you know, i still think there is a long way to go and we have to understand this is just the beginning. but it does give us some much needed hope, and i hope that as we see people coming back, it's going to be extremely painful if yarden is not there, it hope helps give those of us who won't see their loved ones back the ability to keep going for as long as we need to until we see them all back. >> have you received any messages from the government, from the prime minister's office and these 45 days since yarden was taken? >> yes. one of yarden's siblings was at the cabinet member -- meeting a few days ago with many different family members. this was the first time, president -- prime minister netanyahu and other members of cabinet met with large number of families, altogether. and again, yarden's siblings were very strengthened by what they heard at this meeting. even though the war has two goals, the goal of britain back the hostages and the goal of aging hamas is rain, the goal of the hostages's top priority. it is something that will be compromised for military gains, as we see right now. and yeah, we were quite strengthened by that meeting. we've also had other meetings. not with prime minister netanyahu, but with the rest of the cabinet, through these days. where, again, they tried to reassure us that are doing all they can to get the hostages back. especially at times when it seemed like maybe it weren't. there were a lot of questions regarding previous deals that did go through, that didn't go through. and this has been a very hard process. and it required a lot of faith and a lot of pressure on our, and on the american in, which as we've mentioned was crucial in this regard. but with, all along the way, said we don't need information. i don't need anyone to tell me any privileged information that i can't tell me. quite the opposite. if there is privileged information about a deal i can't know, i would rather not know. and just know things are moving. that things are happening. so i don't need the government to keep me updated as much as i need them to truly work to get back our loved ones, as quickly as possible. >> that's entirely understandable. maya roman, think you very much, once again, for joining us. >> thank you. up next for us, president biden's democratic challenger says he would have rejected the steal. congressman dean phillips joins me on set, plus i'll ask him about his controversial comments about vice president kamala harris. and what the steel mains for the battlefield. and what the israelis will not be able to do. more now on our breaking news. tonight, the world is reacting to the hostage deal negotiated to free at least 50 captives held by hamas. but there are some critics of the parameters of this deal, inclusion biden's democratic challenger. now want to get right into it with democratic presidential candidate, congressman dean phillips. congressman phillips, thank you for joining us. >> great to be with you. >> this deal whipping discuss, and that reporting is hamas would release kidnapped israeli hostages in exchange for a 3 to 1 ratio of palestinian prisoners, woman and minors, children, who are in israeli prison. if your president of the united states, would you accept that deal? >> no. because we have nine americans held hostage right now by hamas. they've been there for six weeks, including at least one child. and now i would have expected american special forces to perhaps play a hand in extracting them. i think it's absurd, shocking, and dismaying that six weeks later we still have american hostages held by a terror organization in gaza. i'm heavy for the israelis, don't get me wrong. hamas should release all hostages. but the fact we have americans sitting in gaza right, now held hostage, is appalling and should be addressed immediately. >> to be clear, he would turn down even this opportunity to free 50 hostages. and i want to just clarify for the audience, these are israelis but some of them are dual citizens. they hold dual passports, including american passports. >> if all americans are included, i would approve it. if a single american is still held hostage after the steal, no. i think it's that important, abby. i think the american president has an obligation to extract americans. it's been six weeks. i'm happy some are being released, but every single american citizen should be part of that group and if i were the american president i would not agree to anything until every single one of them is released. i would demand it, and if it isn't done would use every lever available to us to make sure. >> you have said that the war has taken an unacceptable toll on palestinian citizens and civilians. >> and israelis. >> and of course on israelis. but in terms of the toll on palestinians in gaza, you are saying a cease-fire only in exchange for the hostages, it seems pretty clear at this point, those are not terms that hamas will accept. so how will you get them to agree to release all of the hostages, which they've refused to do up until this point simply by putting a cease-fire on the table? >> first of all, hamas should have been eliminated years ago. years ago. the fact that a terror organization will not release 200 humans in exchange for the preservation of life of the people they ostensibly represent is upholding. >> but what will you do about, it is my question. what would you do if you are president to change that? >> just like i proposed. police that 200 hostages. >> hamas has to do that. >> hamas has to do it because how do you get hamas to do it? you make, this is exactly the presentation. release 200 hostages. immediate cease fire. a multinational security for us to maintain security for all palestinians in gaza. that eliminates israel's responsibility. >> do you think the biden administration is different too much to the israeli government and how this war is conducted? because it kind of sounds like what you're saying is that you think that the united states government should simply just go in there and release the americans. >> i look at outcomes and facts. the fact is, this cycle has been going on for 50 years that joe biden has been in washington. and by the way, the effect that hamas is holding these hostage right now should have been thrust years ago. and to answer directly, yes. i believe there has been too much deference to netanyahu's right wing government for too long. he's a big problem for the safety and security of israel. and i hope is really make a change, soon to. >> i understand you are running for president. that is definitely your position. i want to ask you about an interview you recently did that was released today in the atlantic. you said, in this interview, that other people have told you this about vice presidents kamala harris. that she is not well prepared, doesn't have the right disposition, and the right competencies to execute that office. you've actually been around her. do you agree? >> no, in fact what i sit in that report, that's what people have told me. >> so what repeat what other people told you if you have firsthand experience? >> i did not articulate that succinctly. that was asked of me. others have said that to the reporter in question. what i've said, is when i've been around her, i've been impressed. she's been kind, she's being thoughtful and decent. but what i'm trying to explain to americans, whether it's relevant to the presidents age or the standing vice president of harris amongst americans, if democrats wish to beat donald trump, and, if democrats want to beat donald trump, this is not about protecting people, it's about protecting the principle of democracy. and i'm just saying, americans are saying, if you look at the approval numbers, americans are saying they do not want to stick it. >> i think the critique -- >> i think is a good person. >> your comments in this interview, you are saying this is what other people have told you. but you have said those words to the reporter and people are looking at that and saying you're hiding behind other people to articulate criticisms of the vice president. you are happy to criticize donald trump and netanyahu and even president biden. if you have critiques -- >> i'm the one who says the quiet part out loud. i'm willing to -- say >> so repeat these comments? >> abby, i didn't recall st. louis boards. i recall those words being shared with me and that's what people have been saying. >> just to be clear -- you did not say these words. >> i did not say these words. let me say this, i am defending the vice president because i think she's a good person. i think she is well prepared. but i'm telling you, the country has a different opinion and that's exactly what i saw there. by the way, i think joe biden is a good person. i respect him. the country is saying, they do not want him to be the next president. by the way, democrats are saying. that about both of them. that's all i'm pointing out. that's not -- those are polls. >> by virtue of your running, vice president harris is there on the ticket. our tacitly saying that you don't think she ought to be a successor to president biden? >> you know what i'm saying, actually? and what i've said directly to many and would actually say to her if she was right next to me. run. the waters warm. we live and democracy. what is everybody so afraid of to actually exercise our democratic muscles? it doesn't happen on its own. we've got to plant seeds, for them, and most of what you've got to participate. i make calls to certain candidates to jump. and they wouldn't do. it i would actually issue a call to vice president harris, governor newsom, governor whitmer -- >> i have not asked her directly -- >> all do it probably right now. to all who believe that we need to do better, who all believe we need change and all who recognize the polls are saying that president biden is going to lose donald trump, to enter the race. just like i did. the water is warm. vice president harris, anybody. governor whitmer, governor perks, correct governor newsom. all the people who are circling let's voters right now. join the race. that's what you do in democracy. and most of, all i can tell you haven't gone through the nonsense and misery of actually simply to what you do and democracy. it's actually joyful. it's amazing. and the country needs us now. not in 2020, eight because if donald trump winds, heavy, there will not be 20 to 28. so vice president harris, you know what, it's probably hard because you are that vice president right now. but you know what? jump in. jump. in >> congressman dean phillips, appreciate you joining us here in the studio. thank you. next, how will this hostage deal impact israel's stated goal of getting rid of hamas? i'll ask a counterterrorism expert, plus what are some jewish leaders now embracing elon musk after he tweeted antisemitic conspiracy theories. kara fischer joins me next on that and ron desantis is getting a critical endorsement in the state of iowa. what that could mean for the 2024 price. just into cnn, qatar announcing that humanitarian pause we talked about at the top of the hour. 50 israeli hostages in exchange for a number of palestinian women and children, who are currently detained in israeli prisons. qatar has played a critical middleman throughout much of this very contentious process. cnn's becky anderson is live for us in doha, qatar. becky, what are you hearing from them about what comes next? >> reporter: some hours after israel confirmed that its cabinet had approved this deal, a deal that had been delivered on tuesday morning and that we ours to israel, by qatar, who have mediated these talks throughout. we have now got word that qatar has announced this humanitarian pause has been agreed in gaza. and it's important that we report on the qatar announcement, because that, effectively, announces that this has been successful and it says, in the next 24 hours, that the starting time of the pause will be announced within the next 24 hours, at last, for four days subject to extension. it is 6:31 in the morning, wednesday morning, here now. it is fivethirtyeight one, is really time. so within the next 24 hours, from now, this announcement from qatar suggests that a pause will be announced. we will look at the timing on that pause. and that is crucial, of course, because that next stage will be actually seeking evidence that those hostages have been released. we are talking upwards of 30 children, at this stage, as far as we can tell from multiple sources. 12 mothers. and another eight women on the israeli side. those are the women and children who will be released from hamas captivity and in exchange there will be the release of the palestinians, 150 of palestinians. and this pause will be four days, and it will be extended. so on a rolling basis, if hamas continues to release hostages. it also, importantly, included in the announcement. the fact there will be a significant amount of aid coming across the border. and that will include fuel. abby? >> very critical. and to underscore what you are saying, that pause begins sometime in the next 24 hours, not quite at this moment. becky anderson, thank you very much. prime minister benjamin netanyahu is saying this deal does have the full support of the idf. but israel's military will infect continue its war against hamas. joining me now is alex placed, us a former pentagon counterterrorism official. alex, won't us through what the impact of a lengthy pause, four days, will have on this battlefield. which as you can see here, in this image, is incredibly extensive in the north. it bleeds even to the middle of gaza and the south. what impact will oppose have on how this operation goes? >> great question, and what a lot of folks have been asking over almost that last two months. what that will look like. as we heard, the idf is in support of this, for a couple of reasons. as you point, up on the north and south of gaza, we are the majority of military operations have taken place. the hospitals and whatnot. that's where the strikes have happened. down here, about south of what he does, it will pull civilians have moved south bound. the israelis have given up the element of surprise because they don't need it at this point. they have an overwhelming military advantage. i don't think the four or five-day pause will have an impact overall on the military operations. there will be an opportunity to reset from hamas, but israel will have the advantage in the long run. >> there is also a, trans critically, as picket was sick for a to come. in a significant amount of aid. all of northern gaza, it decimated. most of the people have low to the south. what are the logistics around getting that much aid? it could be as much as 300 trucks coming through one of these crossings. will israel have to consider, potentially, opening up more avenues for aid to come in? >> it's entirely possible. the focus right now for the trucks coming in for the israelis is ensuring nothing that is supposed to go into gaza, that is anything out of humanitarian aid, makes its way in. it's the question of whether or not the volume can't make it with the inspections that are required. we have seen holdups -- talk nearly four times that right now. the first couple of days as they work the mechanics of this will be interesting. i, think if they can't get it through one, get there going to have to abide by the terms of agreements. they're going to have to look at potentially a second opening. but as you mention, the vast majority of the civilians in the north have led to the south -- >> and before we, go to the red cross now able to see the remaining hostages in gaza. how critical is? that >> it's extremely critical. it's a role the red cross has traditionally played. they have already helped priscilla tate the release of individuals on two separate occasions. i expect them to do the same thing -- that red cross will play a key role. he >> also potentially to identify exactly who is there. alex policed us, thank you so much. always good to have you. and next for us, as more companies flee from elon musk, why are sumptuous leaders now embracing him? kara fischer joins us live. plus, at risk certain surrendered gets dropped by her telling agency after remarks she made at a pro-palestinian rally. we'll tell you what she said, next. he search for epic bargains one grocery store will stop at nothing to make sure you save more on the brands you love. starring produce, and...... you... as the super saver, in....bargain bliss bliss, bliss, bliss todd we talked about this. our deals are just so epic. i know, todd. i know. ♪ grocery outlet bargain market ♪ ♪ ♪ tonight, and exodus from acts. paris hilton's company, 11:11, pulling ads from the social media company after giving a big partnership with x just a few months ago. 11:11 joins a growing list of corporations to now abandoned the artist formerly known as twitter. that list that includes ibm, disney, paramount, and warner bros. discovery, cnn's parent company. this follows a few things -- that left leaning media watchdog revealing how some of these companies ads replaced mix to hateful content on this platform. direct me now is kara swisher -- carrot, your favorite topic, he looked mosque losing -- >> happy thanksgiving! >> happy thanksgiving to you. he's leaving -- losing more advertisers than a business professor at yale. he says elon musk shouldn't have and it he says it is sufficient for any appetizer to be associated with him. it's pathological. pathological, kara? >> i think jeffrey is like that. that something jeffrey would do, he is quite passionate. he's been doing all kinds of different boycotts and things like, that ukraine and things that with russia. that's typical of him. you know, appetizers can choose. if they can't make money on that side, they should be on it, i guess. if they don't mind some of the toxicity. i think cheech and chong are doing well with their wheat business there. but i think big appetite are worried about being placed by bad content and the general toxicity of the site. x it is pushing back very hard, saying not a lot of people, these reports from media matters, who there are so, and are not true. they're pushing back on the stuff. but every brand has to decide if they feel safe on this platform. which i think, everyone who uses it understands what's happening there. >> jonathan greenblatt, the head of the anti-defamation league. he's been on the receiving end of some criticism for now praising elon musk. here is what he said when he was asked about that today. >> then, two days later, it's important that he made a good policy decision. and announced it was no longer going to tell or write language, genocidal language, that cold to eradicate the state of israel and annihilate the 7 million people who live there. again, already said, it's problematic and dangerous when someone with his platform for most antisemitic validates antisemitic conspiracy theories. so when i said elon musk show leadership, he did. tiktok hasn't done. this facebook, instagram, write it, youtube. i mean, snap, no one else has done this. i think it's a good thing. i think it does deserve -- >> to you think he has a point, that maybe too much focus on what elon musk is tweeting or whatever, not as much focus on what the platform is actually doing? >> i think it's combined. i think you can separate them. he is under quite a bit of attack from elon musk, and i think he doesn't want to get sued. i think that's the heart of this. i think that will be bad for the adl and for him. and so, he just taking his small victories or he can. it's essentially said, oh my goodness, that child didn't break everything today. he did something good. i think it should be an overall think. because i think you can't separate that promotion of these tweets and the amplification that he gives them, given who he is. and some good policies. that's great he's making good publicity. i guess we should say great, when he does. that at the same time, you know, it's still a problem. it's still a problem. but john's, right other parts of the ecosystem, social media ecosystem have just as many problems and don't get as much focus. but it's because elon coast attention to himself. tiktok gets much more attention, they deserve, for some of this stuff. they're the biggest. that left in the big city, as they say. >> if you can't stand the heat, as they say. >> right. >> so, kara, i want to ask you about another thing. susan surrendered, who's always a figure who invites opinions from people. her tell and agency, united talent agency, they cut ties with her today after she made some remarks at a pro-palestinian rally. listen to this. >> there are a lot of people that are afraid, afraid of being jewish at this time and are getting a face -- taste of what it feels like to be a muslim in this country. so often subjected to violence. it's important to listen, it's important to have facts. try to take a breath before you answer. and if it's possible, have a conversation. you don't have to go through the untie or history of that region. you can just show the babies that have been dying in incubators. those images are enough to show you that something has drastically gone wrong. >> this is becoming a big thing for hollywood. can they keep basically kicking stars off the islands, one by one, for antisemitism or islamophobia like this indefinitely? >> they can. yes, they certainly can. there is a long history of things like this. and this is sort of on brand for susan sarandon. i'm not surprised she said any of the stuff. she knows what she's saying and she knows there are consequences. anyone who runs an agency can't do what they want. maybe they shouldn't, maybe they should let people have a wider range of opinion. but that was a little bit offensive to talk about stack rankin tragedy. i found that really needlessly cruel way to put. it and, you know, i'm sure she has a good point and we should have conversations. that's the part i like about what she was saying there. but in her case, that shut down the conversation immediately. >> i, mean there is a lot of that ranking of pain and tragedy happening right now. kara, thank you as always for joining us. >> thank you. >> and ron desantis is scoring a key endorsement in the state of iowa. but could it actually shake up this field? that's next. ♪ ♪ ♪ new tonight, one of the most powerful figures in iowa politics has made his pick. iowa evangelist literal bob vander plaats officially endorsing ron desantis for the 2024 presidential election. vander plaats has long been skeptical of trump's reelection big and today he's praised desantis's strong bid in the 2022 elections. joining me to discuss this now is ron brownstein. vent or platte deciding to trump. and also you have kim reynolds and the race. the gold standard pole, ron desantis is in double digits. about 16%. will this make a huge difference for him? >> it will help. this is valuable and the iowa caucuses. the problem is, desantis is essentially representing a strategy that has failed and the past three presidential primaries. to thousand eight, 2012, 2016 oh structured their campaigns the way that ron desantis did. they're focused on consulted in the state evangelical support. the problem is, once each of those candidates were stamped that way,, they had enormous trouble reaching out beyond that community and other states. they all are immediately crashed. none of them even reach 12% of the vote. none of them ended up winning a dozen states. and right now, ron desantis even if he does well in iowa is facing the same. risk he's in some litigious and new hampshire and nikki haley does seem to be in position. whatever happens iowa in, to potentially squeeze him out as the principal rival of donald trump, and new hampshire and south carolina. >> and iowa hasn't picked a winner since george w. bush. so it's been a while. on the other side, dean phillips was on the show earlier, challenging president biden. he also had some words for a vice president kamala harris. in the atlantic interview. i asked him about, it and he tried to walk the impact. but this is something that's really gaining a lot of traction. there's a lot of pushback for him, repay take what he has other people told him about her witnesses. what do you make of that? >> this is the core challenge. it's powered to run against someone without ever criticizing them or their administration. and yet, there's four little tolerance in the democratic coalition right now for that. because there are so much anxiety about biden's position, vis-à -vis trump, and the concern that any -- if you push against the cracks in the window at, all they could break. >> and it's risky. for black voters to be seen as criticizing the black female vice president. >> there is very little chance he's going to be the democratic nominee and beat joe biden in 24. i was listening to your interview with him. the only question, he talks about the eugene mccarthy president of 1960, eight running against lyndon johnson. mccarthy's initial success against lyndon johnson, it brought in bobby kennedy. to the. rice and, you know, he talks about wanting someone to come in and i suppose, if there is any way he would have an impact on, this it would be as if, in the early states, demonstrate sufficient weakness for biden to attract someone else in the. rice right now, he doesn't look like he's strong enough to do that. but there is a lot of concern among democratic voters, and that may find some kind of expression next year. >> yeah, i mean, there's a lot of concern with biden but many more concern about maybe what a big fight among democrats -- >> you're exactly right. >> when it comes to trump -- >> he's trailing, consistently. >> ron brownstein, great to see you, in studio, here. up next, more on our breaking news. israel approving this deal to get back 50 hostages from hamas. we have just learned some new details about that. stay with cnn. , ♪ ♪ ♪ can mick