2024 pop—up. very useful if you decide you do need to walk the dog at 12:15pm but also don't like the thought of missing out on your daily dose of politics live. let's start with this headline in the daily telegraph. lots of stories reportedly who would like the former prime minister to play a more prominent role in the campaign, the sight of him knocking on doors appeals to some. my opening question to our panel, starting with andrew griffiths, is would you like to see borisjohnson back out on the campaign trail? to see boris johnson back out on the campaign trail?— campaign trail? goodness me, yes! this is a moment _ campaign trail? goodness me, yes! this is a moment for _ campaign trail? goodness me, yes! this is a moment for all _ this is a moment for all conservatives to come out on the campaign trail. we are faced with a labour government that will tax homes, pensions, savings. now is the time for all good people to come to the aid of the party and get the country to wake up to the risk that we face. ~ ., i. ~ country to wake up to the risk that we face. ~ ., ,, ~ ., we face. darren? would you like to see boris johnson _ we face. darren? would you like to see boris johnson back _ we face. darren? would you like to see boris johnson back on - we face. darren? would you like to see boris johnson back on the - see borisjohnson back on the campaign trail because mark i don't really care, to be honest. the chaos from the conservatives _ really care, to be honest. the chaos from the conservatives is _ really care, to be honest. the chaos from the conservatives is so - really care, to be honest. the chaos from the conservatives is so mad i really care, to be honest. the chaos i from the conservatives is so mad now that they _ from the conservatives is so mad now that they can't even get their own leader_ that they can't even get their own leader to — that they can't even get their own leader to lead their party and they want someone that was kicked out of parliament _ want someone that was kicked out of parliament for lying to try to steer the ship _ parliament for lying to try to steer the ship in — parliament for lying to try to steer the ship in the right direction. it the ship in the right direction. [it is the ship in the right direction. it is ridiculous, isn't it? as i say, what is ridiculous actually is to present to the country an agenda thatis present to the country an agenda that is going to change the constitution so you can be in power for a generation, do not be truthful and honest about the tax rises... tote and honest about the tax rises... we will come onto that. perhaps - and honest about the tax rises... we will come onto that. perhaps he - and honest about the tax rises... we will come onto that. perhaps he will| will come onto that. perhaps he will tell us more — will come onto that. perhaps he will tell us more about _ will come onto that. perhaps he will tell us more about what _ will come onto that. perhaps he will tell us more about what the - will come onto that. perhaps he will tell us more about what the tax - tell us more about what the tax policies are going to be. what tell us more about what the tax policies are going to be. what boris johnson is not _ policies are going to be. what boris johnson is not ridiculous? _ policies are going to be. what boris johnson is not ridiculous? you - policies are going to be. what boris johnson is not ridiculous? you need a failed _ johnson is not ridiculous? you need a failed leader to come back? it is treat to a failed leader to come back? it is great to have _ a failed leader to come back? it is great to have as _ a failed leader to come back? it 3 great to have as many conservative voices out there. this is a moment when the country needs to wake up to the impending risk of a labour government, possibly with a supermajority. government, possibly with a supermajority-_ government, possibly with a suerma'ori . ., , ., .,~' government, possibly with a suerma'ori . ., , ., .,~ ., superma'ority. you used to work for boris supermajority. you used to work for boris johnson. _ supermajority. you used to work for boris johnson, didn't _ supermajority. you used to work for boris johnson, didn't you, _ supermajority. you used to work for boris johnson, didn't you, henry? i borisjohnson, didn't you, henry? would you like to see him out on the campaign trail? tote would you like to see him out on the campaign trail?— campaign trail? we need the conservative _ campaign trail? we need the conservative family - campaign trail? we need the conservative family back - campaign trail? we need the - conservative family back together on this campaign— conservative family back together on this campaign and _ conservative family back together on this campaign and it _ conservative family back together on this campaign and it would _ conservative family back together on this campaign and it would be - conservative family back together on this campaign and it would be greatl this campaign and it would be great to have _ this campaign and it would be great to have boris — this campaign and it would be great to have borisjohnson _ this campaign and it would be great to have borisjohnson out _ this campaign and it would be greati to have borisjohnson out campaign. he has— to have borisjohnson out campaign. he has been— to have borisjohnson out campaign. he has been making _ to have borisjohnson out campaign. he has been making the _ to have borisjohnson out campaign. he has been making the case - to have borisjohnson out campaign. he has been making the case of- to have borisjohnson out campaign. he has been making the case of a i he has been making the case of a danger— he has been making the case of a danger that— he has been making the case of a danger that the _ he has been making the case of a danger that the labour— he has been making the case of a i danger that the labour government would _ danger that the labour government would pose — danger that the labour government would pose in — danger that the labour government would pose in the _ danger that the labour government would pose in the country. - danger that the labour government would pose in the country. he - danger that the labour government would pose in the country. he has i would pose in the country. he has written _ would pose in the country. he has written in — would pose in the country. he has written in the _ would pose in the country. he has written in the daily— would pose in the country. he has written in the daily mail— would pose in the country. he has written in the daily mail about - would pose in the country. he has written in the daily mail about taxi written in the daily mail about tax rises _ written in the daily mail about tax rises that— written in the daily mail about tax rises that are _ written in the daily mail about tax rises that are inevitable _ written in the daily mail about tax rises that are inevitable with - written in the daily mail about tax rises that are inevitable with a - rises that are inevitable with a labour — rises that are inevitable with a labour government— rises that are inevitable with a labour government and - rises that are inevitable with a labour government and we . rises that are inevitable with a . labour government and we have rises that are inevitable with a - labour government and we have heard the labour— labour government and we have heard the labour party— labour government and we have heard the labour party try _ labour government and we have heard the labour party try to _ labour government and we have heard the labour party try to rule _ labour government and we have heard the labour party try to rule out - the labour party try to rule out some _ the labour party try to rule out some tax— the labour party try to rule out some tax rises. _ the labour party try to rule out some tax rises.— the labour party try to rule out some tax rises. cgt rises. capital rains some tax rises. cgt rises. capital gains tax. — some tax rises. cgt rises. capital gains tax. yes- — some tax rises. cgt rises. capital gains tax, yes. and _ some tax rises. cgt rises. capital gains tax, yes. and small - some tax rises. cgt rises. capital i gains tax, yes. and small investors who would face _ gains tax, yes. and small investors who would face huge _ gains tax, yes. and small investors who would face huge increases - gains tax, yes. and small investors who would face huge increases in i who would face huge increases in their— who would face huge increases in their investments. _ who would face huge increases in their investments. [— who would face huge increases in their investments.— who would face huge increases in their investments. i can't hold you back! this is _ their investments. i can't hold you back! this is the _ their investments. i can't hold you back! this is the tax _ their investments. i can't hold you back! this is the tax debate. - their investments. i can't hold you back! this is the tax debate. but i their investments. i can't hold you | back! this is the tax debate. but on borisjohnson, what is the benefit? he is a campaigning superstar. dare he is a campaigning superstar. are the he is a campaigning superstar. they going to pull the knives out he is a campaigning superstar.- they going to pull the knives out of his back— they going to pull the knives out of his back before they get him on telly? _ his back before they get him on telly? it — his back before they get him on telly? it is _ his back before they get him on telly? it is ridiculous. i'm talking about— telly? it is ridiculous. i'm talking about the — telly? it is ridiculous. i'm talking about the conservative party hroadly~ _ about the conservative party broadly. he was tanking in the polls because _ broadly. he was tanking in the polls because of— broadly. he was tanking in the polls because of his conduct while in office. — because of his conduct while in office. and _ because of his conduct while in office, and now you are going to stitch _ office, and now you are going to stitch charles the first '5 head back— stitch charles the first '5 head back on— stitch charles the first '5 head back on and parade him around like a puppet _ back on and parade him around like a puppet. its— back on and parade him around like a puppet. it's a — back on and parade him around like a puppet. it's a gimmick that reeks of desperation quite frankly and i can't _ desperation quite frankly and i can't wait _ desperation quite frankly and i can't wait to see it.— desperation quite frankly and i can't wait to see it. andrew? as henry said. _ can't wait to see it. andrew? as henry said. we _ can't wait to see it. andrew? as henry said, we need _ can't wait to see it. andrew? as henry said, we need all- can't wait to see it. andrew? as henry said, we need all good i henry said, we need all good conservative communicators out there. the real danger in this election is people sleepwalking into a government that will perpetually continue to increase taxes, and by the way every day the government has left office with hire and implement than when it arrived —— every labour government. than when it arrived -- every labour government-— government. let's get the issue of tax. for several _ government. let's get the issue of tax. for severalweeks, _ government. let's get the issue of tax. for several weeks, as - government. let's get the issue of tax. for several weeks, as you i government. let's get the issue of tax. for several weeks, as you can hear again if you are watching the programme, there has been chewing and flowing with the main parties arguing about the others tax and spending plans not adding up with various claims and counter claims. now, this morning keir starmer, the labour leader, was asked during an lbc phone in whether there will be council tax rises under a labour government if the party went onjuly the 4th. government if the party went on july the 4th. ., ., ., , ., , the 4th. none of our plans require tax rises over _ the 4th. none of our plans require tax rises over and _ the 4th. none of our plans require tax rises over and above _ the 4th. none of our plans require tax rises over and above the i the 4th. none of our plans require tax rises over and above the ones| the 4th. none of our plans require i tax rises over and above the ones we set out. 50 tax rises over and above the ones we set out. , ., tax rises over and above the ones we set out. i. .., _ ., tax rises over and above the ones we set out. ., , set out. so you can say now they will not be — set out. so you can say now they will not be an _ set out. so you can say now they will not be an increase _ set out. so you can say now they will not be an increase in - set out. so you can say now they will not be an increase in council| will not be an increase in council tax? _ will not be an increase in council tax? ~ . . will not be an increase in council tax? ~ ., ., ., will not be an increase in council tax? ., ., ., ., will not be an increase in council tax? . ., ., ., ., ., will not be an increase in council tax? ., ., ., ., ., ., will not be an increase in council tax? ., ., ., ., ., tax? what i am not going to do is sit here two _ tax? what i am not going to do is sit here two weeks _ tax? what i am not going to do is sit here two weeks before - tax? what i am not going to do is sit here two weeks before the i sit here two weeks before the election and write the budget for the next five years. what i can say is that none of our plans require a tax rise, and that is for a reason. the reason is our focus tax rise, and that is for a reason. the reason is ourfocus is tax rise, and that is for a reason. the reason is our focus is on getting our economy going, on building, on growing, on raising living standards and creating wealth. 50 living standards and creating wealth. , ., living standards and creating wealth. i. living standards and creating wealth. , ., wealth. so you can see, the labour leader there _ wealth. so you can see, the labour leader there being _ wealth. so you can see, the labour leader there being put _ wealth. so you can see, the labour leader there being put under- leader there being put under pressure to answer yet again whether he will raise or expand on council tax rates. this is the headline in the daily mail. so, let's start with you, darren. can you rule out increasing council tax if labour wind the election, or scrapping this inheritance tax relief on farmland? i scrapping this inheritance tax relief on farmland?— scrapping this inheritance tax relief on farmland? i should start brinuain relief on farmland? i should start bringing tax _ relief on farmland? i should start bringing tax code _ relief on farmland? i should start bringing tax code books - relief on farmland? i should start bringing tax code books around i relief on farmland? i should start i bringing tax code books around with me. bringing tax code books around with me there _ bringing tax code books around with me. there are about 50 tomes of the thing _ me. there are about 50 tomes of the thing we _ me. there are about 50 tomes of the thing. we have been very clear. let's _ thing. we have been very clear. let's start— thing. we have been very clear. let's start as to why the concept is keep— let's start as to why the concept is keep raising this. they are in such a desperate — keep raising this. they are in such a desperate position they can't even talk about— a desperate position they can't even talk about their own policies and they are — talk about their own policies and they are trying to scare people. we will not _ they are trying to scare people. we will not increase the headline rate of tax _ will not increase the headline rate of tax you — will not increase the headline rate of tax. you have ruled that out. our manifesto, — of tax. you have ruled that out. our manifesto, which is our plan for government, is fully costed and fully funded by closing a number of tax loopholes that raise the additional revenue on top of the budget— additional revenue on top of the budget we would inherit in terms of current— budget we would inherit in terms of current spending around delivering on our— current spending around delivering on our priorities. we don't need to id on our priorities. we don't need to go through— on our priorities. we don't need to go through every page of a 50 tomes tax code _ go through every page of a 50 tomes tax code to _ go through every page of a 50 tomes tax code to talk about exemptions or subclauses— tax code to talk about exemptions or subclauses because our manifesto is fully costed. so subclauses because our manifesto is fully casted-— fully costed. so “ust answer those two questions — fully costed. so just answer those two questions then. _ fully costed. so just answer those two questions then. we _ fully costed. so just answer those two questions then. we might i fully costed. so just answer those two questions then. we might as| fully costed. so just answer those i two questions then. we might as well at least reflect this part of the tory campaign for today, and then we will move on. so you can rule out any rises in council tax if you wind the election and scrapping inheritance tax relief on farmland? we don't need to make those changes to taxes— we don't need to make those changes to taxes because our manifesto is fully funded and costed and that is why we _ fully funded and costed and that is why we have made the commitments that we _ why we have made the commitments that we have. i can't think of how much _ that we have. i can't think of how much clearer i can be.— that we have. i can't think of how much clearer i can be. much clearerl can be. well, he has had 14 years _ much clearerl can be. well, he has had 14 years to _ much clearerl can be. well, he has had 14 years to understand - much clearerl can be. well, he has had 14 years to understand the i much clearerl can be. well, he has had 14 years to understand the tax | had 14 years to understand the tax code is... but had 14 years to understand the tax code is... �* ., , , , had 14 years to understand the tax code is---_ hei code is... but on his response. he is entirely — code is... but on his response. he is entirely silent _ code is... but on his response. he is entirely silent on _ code is... but on his response. he is entirely silent on these - code is... but on his response. he is entirely silent on these two i is entirely silent on these two points. it is the simplest thing in the world if you didn't think that labour had hidden plans to increase tax. darren is a reasonable person generally, but to simply rule it out and give farmers the security that they need because it is a real—world issue. right now they are having to plan their crops and what the next year holds. plan their crops and what the next ear holds. ., plan their crops and what the next year holds-— plan their crops and what the next ear holds. ., ., �* , year holds. you don't believe him? your viewers _ year holds. you don't believe him? your viewers will _ year holds. you don't believe him? your viewers will be _ year holds. you don't believe him? your viewers will be making - year holds. you don't believe him? your viewers will be making that i your viewers will be making that decision, not me. what i do know... still going, sorry. we expect at least £2000 for every working family and that is the cost of the spending commitments they have made. i think it is important in this election, trusting politics and honesty, to know what plans labour has. i pride m self, as know what plans labour has. i pride myself. as you _ know what plans labour has. i pride myself, as you know, _ know what plans labour has. i pride myself, as you know, for— know what plans labour has. i pride myself, as you know, for giving i myself, as you know, forgiving frank— myself, as you know, for giving frank and — myself, as you know, for giving frank and honest answers. at your manifesto — frank and honest answers. at your manifesto is silent on banning everyone _ manifesto is silent on banning everyone from owning cats. are you going _ everyone from owning cats. are you going to _ everyone from owning cats. are you going to be — everyone from owning cats. are you going to be able to say today that you will— going to be able to say today that you will never tell people that if there _ you will never tell people that if there is— you will never tell people that if there is a — you will never tell people that if there is a cat flu pandemic that they— there is a cat flu pandemic that they will— there is a cat flu pandemic that they will have to kill the first cat customer — they will have to kill the first cat customer of course not! you don't need _ customer of course not! you don't need to— customer of course not! you don't need to put— customer of course not! you don't need to put every potential outcome like this— need to put every potential outcome like this in_ need to put every potential outcome like this in the manifesto. what we have put— like this in the manifesto. what we have put forward in our manifesto is a fully— have put forward in our manifesto is a fully costed, fully funded set of proposals — a fully costed, fully funded set of proposals for the course of the next parliament — proposals for the course of the next parliament if we wind the election onjuly— parliament if we wind the election onjuly the 4th, with parliament if we wind the election on july the 4th, with additional revenue — on july the 4th, with additional revenue with an initial injection of cash _ revenue with an initial injection of cash into— revenue with an initial injection of cash into public services, alongside the baseline of the budget that we would _ the baseline of the budget that we would spend in line with our priorities— would spend in line with our priorities and that commitment not to increase — priorities and that commitment not to increase income tax, national insurance — to increase income tax, national insurance or vat.— to increase income tax, national insurance or vat. you have me doing the same thing- _ insurance or vat. you have me doing the same thing. you _ insurance or vat. you have me doing the same thing. you have _ insurance or vat. you have me doing the same thing. you have been i the same thing. you have been playing, if you want to call it, the same game. pointing out that the tories have unfunded tax cuts. but the do. tories have unfunded tax cuts. but they do. shall we go into it? you have _ they do. shall we go into it? you have to _ they do. shall we go into it? you have to help me. jeremy hunt, the conservative chancellor confirmed this for _ conservative chancellor confirmed this for me. the promise in the manifesto _ this for me. the promise in the manifesto that they would save money from the _ manifesto that they would save money from the well welfare budget in order— from the well welfare budget in order to — from the well welfare budget in order to pay for the tax cut they have _ order to pay for the tax cut they have budget. jeremy hunt admitted in an e-mail_ have budget. jeremy hunt admitted in an e-mail to— have budget. jeremy hunt admitted in an e—mailto his have budget. jeremy hunt admitted in an e—mail to his constituents that that money— an e—mail to his constituents that that money has already been spent. so where _ that money has already been spent. so where is — that money has already been spent. so where is the money coming from? well, i think you are a more sophisticated person than you portray because you understand that this conservative government has significantly tried to reform the welfare system. the welfare spend, that will continue in the obr forecast... let me finish. it will increase until it gets to £90 billion per year on hard—working taxpayers. it is not in the baseline because it was only announced last week and that is a £12 million saving over the life of that from reforming the welfare system and getting people back into work. the labour manifesto has nothing in terms of welfare reform, yet it allows the welfare bill to continue to increase... that was not what the chancellorjeremy hunt was talking about. there have been multiple times that we have looked at how we can reform the welfare system. the spring budget in 2023, that was part of it. we have now gone further because we don't think you can grow the economy, get the productivity of this country to a level of prosperity that people out there will be listening to and wanting for their children, unless we reform the welfare system. the really important point is and perhaps darren can tell us exactly how many pounds is it that a labour government would seek to reduce the welfare bill by? there is a real choice at this election. reform the welfare system and reinvest that back into tax cuts on working people and in national insurance reduction, or no welfare reform and tax increases, some of which darren has been honest about, tax increases by labour. you which darren has been honest about, tax increases by labour.— tax increases by labour. you asked a cuestion tax increases by labour. you asked a question and — tax increases by labour. you asked a question and then _ tax increases by labour. you asked a question and then you _ tax increases by labour. you asked a question and then you did. _ tax increases by labour. you asked a question and then you did. you i tax increases by labour. you asked a question and then you did. you said l question and then you did. you said what _ question and then you did. you said what is _ question and then you did. you said what is wrong with that answer? there _ what is wrong with that answer? there was — what is wrong with that answer? there was a specific point in your answer— there was a specific point in your answer which was the £12 billion that you — answer which was the £12 billion that you said in your manifesto you would _ that you said in your manifesto you would raise — that you said in your manifesto you would raise above and beyond what you currently have from welfare changes — you currently have from welfare changes to fund the tax cut. that change _ changes to fund the tax cut. that change is — changes to fund the tax cut. that change is the one thatjeremy hunt said had _ change is the one thatjeremy hunt said had already been done, so are you saying — said had already been done, so are you saying that the conservative chancellor has misunderstood or mistaken? | chancellor has misunderstood or mistaken? ., , , ., ., chancellor has misunderstood or mistaken? ., , ., mistaken? i fear it is you that has misunderstood, _ mistaken? i fear it is you that has misunderstood, and _ mistaken? i fear it is you that has misunderstood, and probably... i misunderstood, and probably... communicating with his electors, he talked about the welfare reform that has already happened and subsequently we have an ounce further welfare reforms because it is one of the pressing issues. you are interpreting it wrong. this is one of the pressing issues. when we talk about tax has always got to be two sides, there is a tax that we will cut, but there's also the credible plan as to how you reduce those. welfare reform as people out there listening is a big part of that. ., , , that. how well-defined is this discussion _ that. how well-defined is this discussion and _ that. how well-defined is this discussion and illuminating i that. how well-defined is this | discussion and illuminating this debate, bearing in mind we have been having various iterations of it since the start of the campaign? i will come onto whether it has worked or not for both of the politicians, butjust or not for both of the politicians, but just for the public or not for both of the politicians, butjust for the public out or not for both of the politicians, but just for the public out there, when we talk about the big pressing issues of the day, what do you make of this debate on tax and spend? what we have got here are two documents _ what we have got here are two documents which _ what we have got here are two documents which are _ what we have got here are two documents which are in - what we have got here are two| documents which are in varying levels — documents which are in varying levels kind _ documents which are in varying levels kind of— documents which are in varying levels kind of dishonest. - documents which are in varying levels kind of dishonest. yours| documents which are in varying i levels kind of dishonest. yours is completely— levels kind of dishonest. yours is completely fantastical, _ levels kind of dishonest. yours is completely fantastical, i'm - levels kind of dishonest. yours is completely fantastical, i'm sorryl levels kind of dishonest. yours is. completely fantastical, i'm sorry to say. completely fantastical, i'm sorry to say your _ completely fantastical, i'm sorry to say your tax — completely fantastical, i'm sorry to say. your tax because _ completely fantastical, i'm sorry to say. your tax because our- completely fantastical, i'm sorry to | say. your tax because our bananas. and when— say. your tax because our bananas. and when it — say. your tax because our bananas. and when it comes— say. your tax because our bananas. and when it comes to _ say. your tax because our bananas. and when it comes to the _ say. your tax because our bananas. and when it comes to the labour. and when it comes to the labour manifesto, — and when it comes to the labour manifesto, there's— and when it comes to the labour manifesto, there's a _ and when it comes to the labour manifesto, there's a lot - and when it comes to the labour manifesto, there's a lot you i and when it comes to the labour manifesto, there's a lot you are i and when it comes to the labour. manifesto, there's a lot you are not saying _ manifesto, there's a lot you are not saying what — manifesto, there's a lot you are not saying what you _ manifesto, there's a lot you are not saying. what you are _ manifesto, there's a lot you are not saying. what you are not _ manifesto, there's a lot you are not saying. what you are not saying i manifesto, there's a lot you are not saying. what you are not saying is i saying. what you are not saying is what _ saying. what you are not saying is what you — saying. what you are not saying is what you are _ saying. what you are not saying is what you are going _ saying. what you are not saying is what you are going to _ saying. what you are not saying is what you are going to do - saying. what you are not saying is what you are going to do about i saying. what you are not saying isi what you are going to do about the planned _ what you are going to do about the planned 10 — what you are going to do about the planned 10 billion _ what you are going to do about the planned 10 billion — _ what you are going to do about the planned 10 billion — 20 _ what you are going to do about the planned 10 billion — 20 million i what you are going to do about the planned 10 billion — 20 million of. planned 10 billion — 20 million of cuts which — planned 10 billion — 20 million of cuts which were _ planned 10 billion — 20 million of cuts which were already - planned 10 billion — 20 million of. cuts which were already announced planned 10 billion — 20 million of- cuts which were already announced in the march _ cuts which were already announced in the march budget. _ cuts which were already announced in the march budget. will— cuts which were already announced in the march budget. will they- cuts which were already announced in the march budget. will they be - cuts which were already announced in the march budget. will they be going| the march budget. will they be going ahead _ the march budget. will they be going ahead or— the march budget. will they be going ahead or not? — the march budget. will they be going ahead or not? your— the march budget. will they be going ahead or not? your tax _ the march budget. will they be going ahead or not? your tax and - the march budget. will they be going ahead or not? your tax and spend i ahead or not? your tax and spend plans— ahead or not? your tax and spend plans are — ahead or not? your tax and spend plans are tiny _ ahead or not? your tax and spend plans are tiny. what _ ahead or not? your tax and spend plans are tiny. what i _ ahead or not? your tax and spend plans are tiny. what i think- ahead or not? your tax and spend plans are tiny. what i think you i plans are tiny. what i think you guys _ plans are tiny. what i think you guys are — plans are tiny. what i think you guys are going _ plans are tiny. what i think you guys are going to— plans are tiny. what i think you guys are going to do, _ plans are tiny. what i think you guys are going to do, you - plans are tiny. what i think you guys are going to do, you don't plans are tiny. what i think you i guys are going to do, you don't want any headlines — guys are going to do, you don't want any headlines which _ guys are going to do, you don't want any headlines which say— guys are going to do, you don't want any headlines which say labour- guys are going to do, you don't want any headlines which say labour are i any headlines which say labour are going _ any headlines which say labour are going to _ any headlines which say labour are going to raise — any headlines which say labour are going to raise tax— any headlines which say labour are going to raise tax 50— any headlines which say labour are going to raise tax so what - any headlines which say labour are going to raise tax so what you i any headlines which say labour are going to raise tax so what you are. going to raise tax so what you are waiting _ going to raise tax so what you are waiting is— going to raise tax so what you are waiting is to — going to raise tax so what you are waiting is to pull— going to raise tax so what you are waiting is to pull some _ going to raise tax so what you are waiting is to pull some rabbit i going to raise tax so what you are waiting is to pull some rabbit out| waiting is to pull some rabbit out of the _ waiting is to pull some rabbit out of the hat. — waiting is to pull some rabbit out of the hat. may— waiting is to pull some rabbit out of the hat, may be _ waiting is to pull some rabbit out of the hat, may be due _ waiting is to pull some rabbit out of the hat, may be due some i waiting is to pull some rabbit out i of the hat, may be due some reforms to capital— of the hat, may be due some reforms to capital gains, — of the hat, may be due some reforms to capital gains, maybe _ of the hat, may be due some reforms to capital gains, maybe fiddle - to capital gains, maybe fiddle around — to capital gains, maybe fiddle around with— to capital gains, maybe fiddle around with the _ to capital gains, maybe fiddle around with the bank- to capital gains, maybe fiddle around with the bank of- to capital gains, maybe fiddle i around with the bank of england rules, _ around with the bank of england rules, because _ around with the bank of england rules, because lots _ around with the bank of england rules, because lots of— around with the bank of england rules, because lots of your- around with the bank of england. rules, because lots of your plans, for example — rules, because lots of your plans, for example around _ rules, because lots of your plans, for example around retaining i rules, because lots of your plans, | for example around retaining staff in the _ for example around retaining staff in the school — for example around retaining staff in the school system _ for example around retaining staff in the school system or— for example around retaining staff in the school system or in - for example around retaining staff in the school system or in the i for example around retaining staff. in the school system or in the nhs, that's— in the school system or in the nhs, that's going — in the school system or in the nhs, that's going to _ in the school system or in the nhs, that's going to cost _ in the school system or in the nhs, that's going to cost you _ in the school system or in the nhs, that's going to cost you money. i in the school system or in the nhs,| that's going to cost you money. you know _ that's going to cost you money. you know that _ that's going to cost you money. you know that and — that's going to cost you money. you know that and i_ that's going to cost you money. you know that and i know— that's going to cost you money. you know that and i know that. - that's going to cost you money. you know that and i know that. what i that's going to cost you money. you| know that and i know that. what the manifesto _ know that and i know that. what the manifesto 's — know that and i know that. what the manifesto slob— know that and i know that. what the manifesto 'sjob is— know that and i know that. what the manifesto 'sjob is is— know that and i know that. what the manifesto 'sjob is is to _ know that and i know that. what the manifesto 'sjob is is to get - know that and i know that. what the manifesto 'sjob is is to get you i manifesto 'sjob is is to get you over— manifesto 'sjob is is to get you over the — manifesto 'sjob is is to get you over the line _ manifesto 'sjob is is to get you over the line for— manifesto 'sjob is is to get you over the line for the _ manifesto 'sjob is is to get you over the line for the election. manifesto 'sjob is is to get you. over the line for the election and it is not— over the line for the election and it is not actually— over the line for the election and it is not actually a _ over the line for the election and it is not actually a plan _ over the line for the election and it is not actually a plan for- it is not actually a plan for government _ it is not actually a plan for government. it _ it is not actually a plan for government. it is - it is not actually a plan for- government. it is fundamentally dishonest — government. it is fundamentally dishonest to _ government. it is fundamentally dishonest to the _ government. it is fundamentally dishonest to the country. - government. it is fundamentally dishonest to the country. i - government. it is fundamentally dishonest to the country.- dishonest to the country. i don't think it is an _ dishonest to the country. i don't think it is an edifying _ dishonest to the country. i don't think it is an edifying debate i dishonest to the country. i don't think it is an edifying debate but it is illuminating. it has been clearly— it is illuminating. it has been clearly said by keir starmer they have _ clearly said by keir starmer they have no— clearly said by keir starmer they have no plans to raise capital gains tax and _ have no plans to raise capital gains tax and so — have no plans to raise capital gains tax and so they don't need to but this is— tax and so they don't need to but this is politician speak for a plan to do— this is politician speak for a plan to do so — this is politician speak for a plan to do so. we know, as andrew said earlier, _ to do so. we know, as andrew said earlier, there — to do so. we know, as andrew said earlier, there is about £2000 already— earlier, there is about £2000 already that we know of and conservative estimates of a tax bombshell that will come from the labour— bombshell that will come from the labour government. if darren wants to rule _ labour government. if darren wants to rule out— labour government. if darren wants to rule out raising capital gains tax he — to rule out raising capital gains tax he can— to rule out raising capital gains tax he can now. this bizarre diversion _ tax he can now. this bizarre diversion about killing cats, he has an opportunity micro that was slightly— an opportunity micro that was slightly bizarre, i agree. you could say we _ slightly bizarre, i agree. you could say we are — slightly bizarre, i agree. you could say we are not going to raise capital— say we are not going to raise capital gains tax or council tax but you are _ capital gains tax or council tax but you are not. — capital gains tax or council tax but you are not, are you? on capital gains tax or council tax but you are not, are you?— capital gains tax or council tax but you are not, are you? on the issue of lain you are not, are you? on the issue of plain english. — you are not, are you? on the issue of plain english, if— you are not, are you? on the issue of plain english, if i _ you are not, are you? on the issue of plain english, if i say _ you are not, are you? on the issue of plain english, if! say i _ you are not, are you? on the issue of plain english, if i say i have i you are not, are you? on the issue of plain english, if! say i have no i of plain english, if i say i have no plan _ of plain english, if i say i have no plan to— of plain english, if i say i have no plan to do— of plain english, if i say i have no plan to do something, _ of plain english, if i say i have no plan to do something, you - of plain english, if i say i have no plan to do something, you can't. of plain english, if i say i have no i plan to do something, you can't then say is _ plan to do something, you can't then say is that— plan to do something, you can't then say is that you — plan to do something, you can't then say is that you actually _ plan to do something, you can't then say is that you actually plan - plan to do something, you can't then say is that you actually plan to - plan to do something, you can't then say is that you actually plan to do i say is that you actually plan to do that _ say is that you actually plan to do that i'm — say is that you actually plan to do that i'm clear— say is that you actually plan to do that. i'm clear that— say is that you actually plan to do that. i'm clear that i— say is that you actually plan to do that. i'm clear that i have - say is that you actually plan to do that. i'm clear that i have no i say is that you actually plan to do. that. i'm clear that i have no plans to macro _ that. i'm clear that i have no plans to macro the — that. i'm clear that i have no plans to macro the reason _ that. i'm clear that i have no plans to macro the reason is _ that. i'm clear that i have no plans to macro the reason is that - that. i'm clear that i have no plans to macro the reason is that labouri to macro the reason is that labour advisersm — to macro the reason is that labour advisers- - -— advisers... labour advisers are briefin: advisers... labour advisers are briefing that — advisers... labour advisers are briefing that actually _ advisers... labour advisers are briefing that actually we i advisers... labour advisers are briefing that actually we could | briefing that actually we could raise — briefing that actually we could raise capital gains tax level to the same _ raise capital gains tax level to the same level as income tax and there have been. — same level as income tax and there have been, because i read the papers carefully~ _ have been, because i read the papers carefull . ~ ., ., , ., carefully. would that be a bad thin ? carefully. would that be a bad thing? you — carefully. would that be a bad thing? you are _ carefully. would that be a bad thing? you are taxing - carefully. would that be a bad i thing? you are taxing investment at the same _ thing? you are taxing investment at the same level— thing? you are taxing investment at the same level that _ thing? you are taxing investment at the same level that you _ thing? you are taxing investment at the same level that you are - thing? you are taxing investment at the same level that you are taxing i the same level that you are taxing work~ _ the same level that you are taxing work. ., . ., ., ., the same level that you are taxing work. ., ., ., , the same level that you are taxing work. ., ., . work. you could have a cash increase and ou work. you could have a cash increase and you will — work. you could have a cash increase and you will be _ work. you could have a cash increase and you will be taxed _ work. you could have a cash increase and you will be taxed on _ work. you could have a cash increase and you will be taxed on that. - work. you could have a cash increase and you will be taxed on that. the i and you will be taxed on that. the labour— and you will be taxed on that. the labour party are saying they need the investment to grow the economy. the economy. the tories used to support that. well, _ the economy. the tories used to support that. well, after - the economy. the tories used to support that. well, after this i the economy. the tories used to | support that. well, after this sort of discussion, _ support that. well, after this sort of discussion, getting _ support that. well, after this sort of discussion, getting your i of discussion, getting your reflections, henry and ash, if you look at the outcomes so for a, in terms of the polls, because we follow the polls during the campaign, you have attacked labour on their hidden secret tax plans, for 3.5 weeks, the polls have stayed exactly the same. they are still 20 orso exactly the same. they are still 20 or so points ahead. do you accept it is not working?— is not working? well, no, because the election _ is not working? well, no, because the election has. _ is not working? well, no, because the election has. happened. i is not working? well, no, because the election has. happened. noti is not working? well, no, because the election has. happened. not a single vote... but the election has. happened. not a single vote- - -_ single vote... but on the poll, it has moved _ single vote... but on the poll, it has moved the _ single vote... but on the poll, it has moved the polls _ single vote... but on the poll, it has moved the polls my - single vote... but on the poll, it i has moved the polls my experience on the doorstep — has moved the polls my experience on the doorstep people _ has moved the polls my experience on the doorstep people are _ has moved the polls my experience on the doorstep people are uncertain i the doorstep people are uncertain what a labour government would do, they hear some taxes being ruled out. many others that would impact their lives including council tax, a tax on people's household income not being ruled out. they are trying to get to the bomb of the it. reasonable people trying to get a reasonable answer to a reasonable question. it is frustrating and edifying... he can't lionesses he edifying. .. he can't lionesses he has come — edifying... he can't lionesses he has come on willingly edifying. .. he can't lionesses he has come on willingly he - edifying. .. he can't lionesses he has come on willingly he can't i has come on willingly he can't answer a _ has come on willingly he can't answer a straight _ has come on willingly he can't answer a straight question i has come on willingly he can't answer a straight question on| answer a straight question on something like will labour change the threshold for council tax, introduce extra band and they will put up the council tax rates. who; put up the council tax rates. why are ou put up the council tax rates. why are you allowing _ put up the council tax rates. why are you allowing yourself as the labour party, who want to be the next government, to be almost sort of harangued and bullied on a daily basis into answering for all why don't you just dismiss it? i for all why don't you “ust dismiss it? ., �* , you for all why don't you “ust dismiss ind vou l it? i don't feel bullied. you are rollin: it? i don't feel bullied. you are rolling this _ it? i don't feel bullied. you are rolling this out, _ it? i don't feel bullied. you are rolling this out, planning i it? i don't feel bullied. you are rolling this out, planning not . it? i don't feel bullied. you are| rolling this out, planning not to it? i don't feel bullied. you are - rolling this out, planning not to do that. you could be chief secretary to the treasury if you win the election. you will have nothing to do. ~ ., . ., ., do. we ruled out income tax, national insurance _ do. we ruled out income tax, national insurance and - do. we ruled out income tax, national insurance and vat. do. we ruled out income tax, - national insurance and vat because we think_ national insurance and vat because we think it _ national insurance and vat because we think it is really important for the majority of working people across — the majority of working people across the country because they have been taxed _ across the country because they have been taxed so much under the conservatives. what is unedifying about _ conservatives. what is unedifying about this — conservatives. what is unedifying about this debate, and the reason we keep having _ about this debate, and the reason we keep having it, is because the conservative party like ideas. they are not— conservative party like ideas. they are not saying to people at home, if you are _ are not saying to people at home, if you are like — are not saying to people at home, if you are like the conservative government, this is what we'll detiven — government, this is what we'll deliver. they are running around shouting — deliver. they are running around shouting saying, look at labour they are hideous. you shouting saying, look at labour they are hideous— are hideous. you are not being open about what — are hideous. you are not being open about what your _ are hideous. you are not being open about what your plans _ are hideous. you are not being open about what your plans are. - are hideous. you are not being open about what your plans are. i - are hideous. you are not being open about what your plans are. i am - about what your plans are. i am being very _ about what your plans are. i am being very open- _ about what your plans are. i am being very open. it _ about what your plans are. i am being very open. it is _ about what your plans are. i am being very open. it is in - about what your plans are. i am being very open. it is in the - being very open. it is in the manifesto.— being very open. it is in the manifesto. ., , , ., manifesto. that is fine until you win the election. _ manifesto. that is fine until you win the election. when - manifesto. that is fine until you win the election. when you - manifesto. that is fine until you j win the election. when you look manifesto. that is fine until you i win the election. when you look at the state _ win the election. when you look at the state of— win the election. when you look at the state of infrastructure - win the election. when you look at the state of infrastructure in- win the election. when you look at the state of infrastructure in this . the state of infrastructure in this country. — the state of infrastructure in this country. public— the state of infrastructure in this country, public services, - the state of infrastructure in this country, public services, either. the state of infrastructure in this l country, public services, eitherwe take you _ country, public services, eitherwe take you at— country, public services, eitherwe take you at your— country, public services, eitherwe take you at your word, _ country, public services, eitherwe take you at your word, and - take you at your word, and fundamentally _ take you at your word, and fundamentally you - take you at your word, and fundamentally you won't . take you at your word, and i fundamentally you won't be take you at your word, and - fundamentally you won't be very take you at your word, and _ fundamentally you won't be very much about _ fundamentally you won't be very much about those _ fundamentally you won't be very much about those things, _ fundamentally you won't be very much about those things, or— fundamentally you won't be very much about those things, or you _ fundamentally you won't be very much about those things, or you do - fundamentally you won't be very much about those things, or you do have - fundamentally you won't be very much about those things, or you do have a l about those things, or you do have a plan for— about those things, or you do have a plan for transformation, _ about those things, or you do have a plan for transformation, and - about those things, or you do have a plan for transformation, and that. plan for transformation, and that will either— plan for transformation, and that will either mean _ plan for transformation, and that will either mean feeling - plan for transformation, and that will either mean feeling the - plan for transformation, and thatj will either mean feeling the bank plan for transformation, and that i will either mean feeling the bank of england _ will either mean feeling the bank of england or— will either mean feeling the bank of england or imposing _ will either mean feeling the bank of england or imposing new— will either mean feeling the bank of england or imposing new taxes. - will either mean feeling the bank of| england or imposing new taxes. the thin we england or imposing new taxes. thing we disagree on, you england or imposing new taxes. th; thing we disagree on, you think england or imposing new taxes. thing we disagree on, you think we should _ thing we disagree on, you think we should tax— thing we disagree on, you think we should tax and spend more. i think we can— should tax and spend more. i think we can spend the money we have better~ _ we can spend the money we have better~ we — we can spend the money we have better. we can reform how are public services _ better. we can reform how are public services are _ better. we can reform how are public services are delivered. move away from _ services are delivered. move away from private investment and deliver infrastructure. the answer can't always — infrastructure. the answer can't always be — infrastructure. the answer can't always be tax and spend. you've had 14 ears. always be tax and spend. you've had 14 years- it's — always be tax and spend. you've had 14 years. it's really _ always be tax and spend. you've had 14 years. it's really simple. - always be tax and spend. you've had 14 years. it's really simple. ruling i 14 years. it's really simple. ruling out inheritance tax. your party has had 14 years to plan themselves to a really simple, binary question. we have been making very clear that we will reform things like welfare. and as a result we have a fully costed plan that includes cutting taxes. darren has spent all his time tetting — darren has spent all his time telling us how he is rolling out tax rises _ telling us how he is rolling out tax rises because they are in working families — rises because they are in working families. what about council tax? if he wants _ families. what about council tax? if he wants to — families. what about council tax? if he wants to rule that out, he could. he won't— he wants to rule that out, he could. he won't do— he wants to rule that out, he could. he won't do that. he wants to keep that option — he won't do that. he wants to keep that option open. in case he is chief— that option open. in case he is chief secretary. if i was in the treasury _ chief secretary. if i was in the treasury i _ chief secretary. if i was in the treasury i would advise him to do that _ treasury i would advise him to do that the — treasury i would advise him to do that. the danger for the country is, tisten _ that. the danger for the country is, listen carefully to what he is saying _ listen carefully to what he is saying. he is not ruling out council tax changes. if there is a labour government, they will raise council tax. ~ ., government, they will raise council tax. . ., . , government, they will raise council tax. ., . ., ., tax. who has raised council tax to its highest _ tax. who has raised council tax to its highest level— tax. who has raised council tax to its highest level in _ tax. who has raised council tax to its highest level in the _ tax. who has raised council tax to its highest level in the last i tax. who has raised council tax to its highest level in the last few. its highest level in the last few years? — its highest level in the last few years? who _ its highest level in the last few years? who has _ its highest level in the last few years? who has done - its highest level in the last few years? who has done that? i its highest level in the last few. years? who has done that? that its highest level in the last few years? who has done that? that is not riuht. years? who has done that? that is not right. council— years? who has done that? that is not right. council tax _ years? who has done that? that is not right. council tax is _ years? who has done that? that is not right. council tax is lower. i not right. council tax is lower. band — not right. council tax is lower. band d — not right. council tax is lower. band d is _ not right. council tax is lower. band d is the typical band... can i ask a broader _ band d is the typical band... can i ask a broader question? - band d is the typical band... can i ask a broader question? one i band d is the typical band... (15w i ask a broader question? one of band d is the typical band... cari i ask a broader question? one of the things i think you can both agree on, having looked at both the manifestos, is that under either a labour government onjuly the 5th, or a conservative government, the continued freezing of income tax thresholds will mean the overall tax burden will continue to rise until 2028, 2029, that's true, isn't it? well, it's a consequence of the impact on the public finances and protecting people. we will therefore be reducing the tax burden. linder be reducing the tax burden. under both governments, _ be reducing the tax burden. under both governments, it's _ be reducing the tax burden. under both governments, it's true, i be reducing the tax burden. under both governments, it's true, isn't| both governments, it's true, isn't it? , that both governments, it's true, isn't it?- that is — both governments, it's true, isn't it?- that is clear, _ both governments, it's true, isn't it? yes. that is clear, that is what is auoin it? yes. that is clear, that is what is going to — it? yes. that is clear, that is what is going to happen. _ it? yes. that is clear, that is what is going to happen. taxes will continue to go up or you will be dragged into... hang on. i continue to go up or you will be dragged into... hang on. lam putting that there. i am sure you have all got a caveats. also, on the current projections, this is without the growth that labour says it is going to get, and no doubt the conservatives too, also with your tax cuts under national insurance, they will have to be spending cuts in unprotected departments of public spending if you are not going to increase taxes, that's true, isn't it? it increase taxes, that's true, isn't it? , �* , increase taxes, that's true, isn't it? , �*, , it? it is true under darren's plans. in our plans. _ it? it is true under darren's plans. in our plans, those _ it? it is true under darren's plans. in our plans, those cuts, - it? it is true under darren's plans. in our plans, those cuts, if - it? it is true under darren's plans. in our plans, those cuts, if you i in our plans, those cuts, if you like it, if you like to use that word, they will come through welfare reform. it is not taking welfare away from any individual person, which is what viewers would think of as a coach, but it is by getting more people back into work. that is the 12 billion difference between us. is the 12 billion difference between us. ' , . , the 12 billion difference between us. , . , ., the 12 billion difference between us. ,~ .,, ., us. 14 years of conservative government _ us. 14 years of conservative government has _ us. 14 years of conservative government has made i us. 14 years of conservative government has made this| us. 14 years of conservative i government has made this country sicker _ government has made this country sicker~ the — government has made this country sicker. the impact _ government has made this country sicker. the impact of... _ government has made this country sicker. the impact of... you - government has made this country sicker. the impact of... you have. government has made this country| sicker. the impact of... you have a much _ sicker. the impact of... you have a much less— sicker. the impact of... you have a much less healthy— sicker. the impact of... you have a much less healthy population - sicker. the impact of... you have a much less healthy population withl much less healthy population with higher— much less healthy population with higher care — much less healthy population with higher care need. _ much less healthy population with higher care need. now— much less healthy population with higher care need. now you - much less healthy population with higher care need. now you are i much less healthy population with i higher care need. now you are going to force _ higher care need. now you are going to force these — higher care need. now you are going to force these people _ higher care need. now you are going to force these people back _ higher care need. now you are going to force these people back into - higher care need. now you are going to force these people back into work| to force these people back into work after they— to force these people back into work after they have _ to force these people back into work after they have been _ to force these people back into work after they have been previously i after they have been previously impacted — after they have been previously impacted by— after they have been previously impacted by welfare _ after they have been previously impacted by welfare cuts. - after they have been previously impacted by welfare cuts. thisl after they have been previously. impacted by welfare cuts. this is fundamentally— impacted by welfare cuts. this is fundamentally dishonest. - impacted by welfare cuts. this is fundamentally dishonest. there i impacted by welfare cuts. this is. fundamentally dishonest. there is not that— fundamentally dishonest. there is not that much _ fundamentally dishonest. there is not that much money. _ fundamentally dishonest. there is not that much money. there i fundamentally dishonest. there is not that much money. there is. fundamentally dishonest. there is not that much money. there is a i fundamentally dishonest. there is i not that much money. there is a need to invest _ not that much money. there is a need to invest in _ not that much money. there is a need to invest in health— not that much money. there is a need to invest in health care _ not that much money. there is a need to invest in health care services - not that much money. there is a need to invest in health care services so i to invest in health care services so we can— to invest in health care services so we can end — to invest in health care services so we can end up _ to invest in health care services so we can end up with— to invest in health care services so we can end up with a _ to invest in health care services so we can end up with a healthier- we can end up with a healthier workforce _ we can end up with a healthier workforce-— we can end up with a healthier workforce. , ., ., workforce. there is a huge more -- amount more _ workforce. there is a huge more -- amount more money _ workforce. there is a huge more -- amount more money going - workforce. there is a huge more -- amount more money going to i workforce. there is a huge more --| amount more money going to health care than in 2012. the amount more money going to health care than in 2012.— care than in 2012. the portion of gdp going _ care than in 2012. the portion of gdp going into _ care than in 2012. the portion of gdp going into public _ care than in 2012. the portion of gdp going into public health i care than in 2012. the portion of| gdp going into public health care has increased since 2010. the proportion of tax paid by the richest — proportion of tax paid by the richest was 50% in 2010. it is now nearer— richest was 50% in 2010. it is now nearer to — richest was 50% in 2010. it is now nearer to 60%. that is a significant change _ nearer to 60%. that is a significant change we — nearer to 60%. that is a significant change. we have moved the burden of taxation— change. we have moved the burden of taxation off _ change. we have moved the burden of taxation off the middle class and more _ taxation off the middle class and more onto— taxation off the middle class and more onto the richest. it is a huge shift _ more onto the richest. it is a huge shift. in _ more onto the richest. it is a huge shift. . more onto the richest. it is a huge shift. , ., , , . ., , shift. in terms of public attitudes on whether _ shift. in terms of public attitudes on whether they _ shift. in terms of public attitudes on whether they want _ shift. in terms of public attitudes on whether they want to - shift. in terms of public attitudes on whether they want to pay i shift. in terms of public attitudes on whether they want to pay taxl shift. in terms of public attitudes i on whether they want to pay tax or not, nobody fundamentally wants to pay more tax, but in terms of funding public spending, findings from a report last week shows that even though taxation is at a record high for the even though taxation is at a record highforthe uk, even though taxation is at a record high for the uk, many people still seem to regard the state of the nhs as a more pressing problem than the level of taxes. 46% say that if forced to choose, the government should increase taxes and spend more on health, education and social benefits. does that surprise you? taste benefits. does that surprise you? we are spending more on education and health _ are spending more on education and health. if you look at survey data, people often talk about the desire for more — people often talk about the desire for more specific spending. if you present— for more specific spending. if you present them with a tax bill, which will happen under labour, when the council— will happen under labour, when the council tax — will happen under labour, when the council tax rises [and on your doorstep. _ council tax rises [and on your doorstep, then they will begin to think. _ doorstep, then they will begin to think. not— doorstep, then they will begin to think, not so sure about this. by then— think, not so sure about this. by then it _ think, not so sure about this. by then it will— think, not so sure about this. by then it will be too late. on council tax, ve then it will be too late. on council tax. very quickly. _ then it will be too late. on council tax. very quickly. i _ then it will be too late. on council tax, very quickly, i don't - tax, very quickly, i don't necessarily— tax, very quickly, i don't necessarily think- tax, very quickly, i don't necessarily think that i tax, very quickly, i don't- necessarily think that labour will reform _ necessarily think that labour will reform the — necessarily think that labour will reform the bands. _ necessarily think that labour will reform the bands. that - necessarily think that labour will reform the bands. that will- necessarily think that labour will reform the bands. that will landl reform the bands. that will [and tenants — reform the bands. that will [and tenants with _ reform the bands. that will [and tenants with a _ reform the bands. that will [and tenants with a big _ reform the bands. that will [and tenants with a big council - reform the bands. that will [and tenants with a big council tax i reform the bands. that will land i tenants with a big council tax bill. i tenants with a big council tax bill. i don't _ tenants with a big council tax bill. idon't think— tenants with a big council tax bill. i don't think you _ tenants with a big council tax bill. i don't think you guys _ tenants with a big council tax bill. i don't think you guys are - tenants with a big council tax bill. i don't think you guys are so i tenants with a big council tax bill. i don't think you guys are so —— i i don't think you guys are so —— stupid — idon't think you guys are so —— stupid enough— i don't think you guys are so —— stupid enough to _ i don't think you guys are so —— stupid enough to do _ i don't think you guys are so —— stupid enough to do that, - i don't think you guys are so —— stupid enough to do that, but l i don't think you guys are so —— i stupid enough to do that, but don't prove _ stupid enough to do that, but don't prove me _ stupid enough to do that, but don't prove me wrong _ stupid enough to do that, but don't prove me wrong. the _ stupid enough to do that, but don't prove me wrong. the second - stupid enough to do that, but don't prove me wrong. the second thingl stupid enough to do that, but don't i prove me wrong. the second thing is about— prove me wrong. the second thing is about the _ prove me wrong. the second thing is about the choice _ prove me wrong. the second thing is about the choice between _ prove me wrong. the second thing is about the choice between lower i prove me wrong. the second thing isl about the choice between lower taxes and more _ about the choice between lower taxes and more investment— about the choice between lower taxes and more investment for— about the choice between lower taxes and more investment for the - about the choice between lower taxes and more investment for the nhs- about the choice between lower taxes and more investment for the nhs in. and more investment for the nhs in particular _ and more investment for the nhs in particular the — and more investment for the nhs in particular. the thing _ and more investment for the nhs in particular. the thing about - and more investment for the nhs in particular. the thing about the i and more investment for the nhs in particular. the thing about the nhs| particular. the thing about the nhs is that— particular. the thing about the nhs is that everybody— particular. the thing about the nhs is that everybody does _ particular. the thing about the nhs is that everybody does have - particular. the thing about the nhs is that everybody does have to i particular. the thing about the nhs is that everybody does have to use | is that everybody does have to use it. is that everybody does have to use it even _ is that everybody does have to use it even if — is that everybody does have to use it even if you _ is that everybody does have to use it. even if you have _ is that everybody does have to use it. even if you have private healthl it. even if you have private health insurance. — it. even if you have private health insurance. you _ it. even if you have private health insurance, you have _ it. even if you have private health insurance, you have to _ it. even if you have private health insurance, you have to go - it. even if you have private health insurance, you have to go to i it. even if you have private health insurance, you have to go to the i it. even if you have private health- insurance, you have to go to the nhs for me. _ insurance, you have to go to the nhs for me. for— insurance, you have to go to the nhs for a&e, for intensive _ insurance, you have to go to the nhs for a&e, for intensive care. _ insurance, you have to go to the nhs for a&e, for intensive care. people i for a&e, for intensive care. people want _ for a&e, for intensive care. people want that— for a&e, for intensive care. people want that to — for a&e, for intensive care. people want that to be _ for a&e, for intensive care. people want that to be run _ for a&e, for intensive care. people want that to be run well, _ for a&e, for intensive care. people want that to be run well, they- want that to be run well, they wanted — want that to be run well, they wanted to— want that to be run well, they wanted to be _ want that to be run well, they wanted to be adequately- want that to be run well, they. wanted to be adequately funded. want that to be run well, they- wanted to be adequately funded. it is abundantly — wanted to be adequately funded. it is abundantly true _ wanted to be adequately funded. it is abundantly true that _ wanted to be adequately funded. it is abundantly true that it _ wanted to be adequately funded. it is abundantly true that it is - wanted to be adequately funded. it is abundantly true that it is not. i is abundantly true that it is not. you have — is abundantly true that it is not. you have to _ is abundantly true that it is not. you have to wait _ is abundantly true that it is not. you have to wait hours - is abundantly true that it is not. you have to wait hours for - is abundantly true that it is not. you have to wait hours for an i you have to wait hours for an ambulance _ you have to wait hours for an ambulance even _ you have to wait hours for an ambulance even in _ you have to wait hours for an ambulance even in a - you have to wait hours for an ambulance even in a critical. ambulance even in a critical emergency _ ambulance even in a critical emergency of— ambulance even in a critical emergency. of course - ambulance even in a critical. emergency. of course people ambulance even in a critical- emergency. of course people say, i want _ emergency. of course people say, i want to— emergency. of course people say, i want to cough — emergency. of course people say, i want to cough up _ emergency. of course people say, i want to cough up. should _ emergency. of course people say, i want to cough up. should working l want to cough up. should working people's— want to cough up. should working pauple's wages _ want to cough up. should working pauple's wages it _ want to cough up. should working people's wages it up? _ want to cough up. should working people's wages it up? no. - want to cough up. should working people's wages it up? no. it- want to cough up. should working i people's wages it up? no. it should be drawn— people's wages it up? no. it should be drawn from _ people's wages it up? no. it should be drawn from wealth _ people's wages it up? no. it should be drawn from wealth and - people's wages it up? no. it should l be drawn from wealth and inheritance taxes _ be drawn from wealth and inheritance taxes. ., , . ~ be drawn from wealth and inheritance taxes. . , , . . ., taxes. can i pick up and another thin , taxes. can i pick up and another thing, whether _ taxes. can i pick up and another thing, whether or _ taxes. can i pick up and another thing, whether or not _ taxes. can i pick up and another thing, whether or not the - taxes. can i pick up and another - thing, whether or not the manifestos are dramatically different in terms of conservatives and labour, when it comes broadly to tax and spend. there is one issue agitating many in your party, but also across the political spectrum. john mcdonnell, the former shadow chancellor, says 40% of children in his constituency live in poverty, and 4 million nationally. in its manifesto labour committed to tackle child poverty but not to scrap the two child limit. if elected, he will ensure that scrapping this cap is in the first labour budget with amendments if necessary. this is something you would very much like to do, darren, and it sounds like something you will do very quickly if you win? it will do very quickly if you win? it is something we would like to make progress _ is something we would like to make progress on. it will be subject to being _ progress on. it will be subject to being able to afford to do that. that _ being able to afford to do that. that means finding the money within the tax _ that means finding the money within the tax revenues to be able to pay for that _ the tax revenues to be able to pay for that. whatjohn is referring to there _ for that. whatjohn is referring to there is_ for that. whatjohn is referring to there is our— for that. whatjohn is referring to there is our commitment to a broader child poverty— there is our commitment to a broader child poverty strategy. there are lots of _ child poverty strategy. there are lots of issues that spiral families into poverty, whether that is around access _ into poverty, whether that is around access to _ into poverty, whether that is around access to food, having a roof over your— access to food, having a roof over your head~ — access to food, having a roof over your head. yes, there is more that can he _ your head. yes, there is more that can he done — your head. yes, there is more that can be done. but those steps are important — can be done. but those steps are important-— can be done. but those steps are imortant. ~ . ., ., , important. what do you say to people in our important. what do you say to people in your own — important. what do you say to people in your own party _ important. what do you say to people in your own party that _ important. what do you say to people in your own party that say _ important. what do you say to people in your own party that say if— important. what do you say to people in your own party that say if you - in your own party that say if you are a labour government, and you can't even scrap the two child limit, what is it that differentiates you from other parties? differentiates you from other arties? ,, ., ., “ differentiates you from other arties? ,, ., ., ,, . . ,, . parties? sure, look, tackling child ove is parties? sure, look, tackling child poverty is always _ parties? sure, look, tackling child poverty is always a _ parties? sure, look, tackling child poverty is always a commitment l parties? sure, look, tackling child i poverty is always a commitment for those _ poverty is always a commitment for those in _ poverty is always a commitment for those in the — poverty is always a commitment for those in the labour party, for many of us _ those in the labour party, for many of us it— those in the labour party, for many of us it is— those in the labour party, for many of us it is the — those in the labour party, for many of us it is the personal expense that drives _ of us it is the personal expense that drives us here in the first place — that drives us here in the first place the _ that drives us here in the first place. the fact is everything has to be fully— place. the fact is everything has to be fully costed and funded and it will take — be fully costed and funded and it will take some time to be able to do that that is— will take some time to be able to do that. that is why the child poverty strategy _ that. that is why the child poverty strategy is — that. that is why the child poverty strategy is so important, because there _ strategy is so important, because there are — strategy is so important, because there are things we can do immediately to help, and there is no would _ immediately to help, and there is no would like _ immediately to help, and there is no would like to do in the future. we have _ would like to do in the future. we have to _ would like to do in the future. we have to get — would like to do in the future. we have to get the economy growing and the public— have to get the economy growing and the public sector budget under control— the public sector budget under control to do that.— the public sector budget under control to do that. let's have a look at what — control to do that. let's have a look at what keir _ control to do that. let's have a look at what keir starmer - control to do that. let's have a look at what keir starmer is i control to do that. let's have a - look at what keir starmer is doing. he is out campaigning, as all of the leaders are on a public basis. it is a sunny day. the labour leader out there on the campaign trail. you can see the pictures of him. let's look at this headline from the times newspaper. this is in response to shadow chancellor rachel reeves, who has spoken about breaking down eu trade barriers if labour wins the election. would you agree, darren, to access to fishing being put on the table for discussion with the eu in order to improve the uk's trading deal? ., ., ~ in order to improve the uk's trading deal? ., ., 4' . in order to improve the uk's trading deal? ., ., ,, . ., in order to improve the uk's trading deal? . ., , ., deal? look, i have not seen who said it, but i deal? look, i have not seen who said it. but i suspect _ deal? look, i have not seen who said it, but i suspect if _ deal? look, i have not seen who said it, but i suspect if that _ deal? look, i have not seen who said it, but i suspect if that were - deal? look, i have not seen who said it, but i suspect if that were the - it, but i suspect if that were the eu position, they would put it on the table — eu position, they would put it on the table if we were negotiating with them. it's their decision, it is hot _ with them. it's their decision, it is not our— with them. it's their decision, it is not our decision what is on and off the _ is not our decision what is on and off the agenda. what we are saying is there _ off the agenda. what we are saying is there are — off the agenda. what we are saying is there are areas we think we could collaborate — is there are areas we think we could collaborate more effectively on trade — collaborate more effectively on trade. �* , ., collaborate more effectively on trade. �* ., trade. but you could rule out discussing — trade. but you could rule out discussing fishing _ trade. but you could rule out discussing fishing access - trade. but you could rule out discussing fishing access and fishing rights and you are saying we wouldn't? you fishing rights and you are saying we wouldn't? ., ., �* ., ., . wouldn't? you don't go into a negotiation — wouldn't? you don't go into a negotiation telling _ wouldn't? you don't go into a negotiation telling the - wouldn't? you don't go into a negotiation telling the other. wouldn't? you don't go into a . negotiation telling the other side what you're willing to negotiate. they— what you're willing to negotiate. they will— what you're willing to negotiate. they will have things they want to negotiate — they will have things they want to negotiate and that perfectly proper. you're _ negotiate and that perfectly proper. you're laughing, henry. ithink negotiate and that perfectly proper. you're laughing, henry. i think it is staggering _ you're laughing, henry. i think it is staggering i— you're laughing, henry. i think it is staggering. i want _ you're laughing, henry. i think it is staggering. i want to- you're laughing, henry. i think it is staggering. i want to put- you're laughing, henry. i think it is staggering. i want to put my. you're laughing, henry. i think it. is staggering. i want to put my head in nry— is staggering. i want to put my head in rny hands~ — is staggering. i want to put my head in rny hands we _ is staggering. i want to put my head in my hands. we spent _ is staggering. i want to put my head in my hands. we spent years- in my hands. we spent years discussing _ in my hands. we spent years discussing brexit. _ in my hands. we spent years discussing brexit. they- in my hands. we spent years discussing brexit. they were| in my hands. we spent years- discussing brexit. they were only two choices, _ discussing brexit. they were only two choices, stay— discussing brexit. they were only two choices, stay in _ discussing brexit. they were only two choices, stay in the - discussing brexit. they were only two choices, stay in the single i two choices, stay in the single nrarket. — two choices, stay in the single market, leave _ two choices, stay in the single market, leave the _ two choices, stay in the single market, leave the trade - two choices, stay in the single market, leave the trade deal. | two choices, stay in the single i market, leave the trade deal. we deal -- _ market, leave the trade deal. we deal -- we — market, leave the trade deal. we deal -- we did— market, leave the trade deal. we deal —— we did the _ market, leave the trade deal. we deal —— we did the latter. - market, leave the trade deal. we deal —— we did the latter. you - market, leave the trade deal. we| deal —— we did the latter. you say you are _ deal —— we did the latter. you say you are prepared _ deal —— we did the latter. you say you are prepared to _ deal —— we did the latter. you say you are prepared to put _ deal —— we did the latter. you say you are prepared to put on - deal —— we did the latter. you say you are prepared to put on the i you are prepared to put on the table. — you are prepared to put on the table. facing _ you are prepared to put on the table, facing. yes, _ you are prepared to put on the table, facing. yes, you - you are prepared to put on the table, facing. yes, you did. i you are prepared to put on the - table, facing. yes, you did. rachel reeves _ table, facing. yes, you did. rachel reeves has — table, facing. yes, you did. rachel reeves has shown _ table, facing. yes, you did. rachel reeves has shown staggering - table, facing. yes, you did. rachel. reeves has shown staggering naivety in her— reeves has shown staggering naivety in her interview— reeves has shown staggering naivety in her interview with _ reeves has shown staggering naivety in her interview with the _ reeves has shown staggering naivety in her interview with the financial - in her interview with the financial times— in her interview with the financial times which— in her interview with the financial times which he _ in her interview with the financial times which he talked _ in her interview with the financial times which he talked about - in her interview with the financial times which he talked about how| in her interview with the financial i times which he talked about how we could _ times which he talked about how we could align _ times which he talked about how we could align on — times which he talked about how we could align on chemicals. _ times which he talked about how we could align on chemicals. we - could align on chemicals. we already have a _ could align on chemicals. we already have a lot _ could align on chemicals. we already have a lot of— could align on chemicals. we already have a lot of eu _ could align on chemicals. we already have a lot of eu regulations - could align on chemicals. we already have a lot of eu regulations for - have a lot of eu regulations for chenricals _ have a lot of eu regulations for chemicals. the _ have a lot of eu regulations for chemicals. the eu _ have a lot of eu regulations for chemicals. the eu won't - have a lot of eu regulations for chemicals. the eu won't care l have a lot of eu regulations for - chemicals. the eu won't care whether we align— chemicals. the eu won't care whether we align or— chemicals. the eu won't care whether we align or not — chemicals. the eu won't care whether we align or not. either— chemicals. the eu won't care whether we align or not. either you _ chemicals. the eu won't care whether we align or not. either you go - chemicals. the eu won't care whether we align or not. either you go close i we align or not. either you go close to rain— we align or not. either you go close to rain and — we align or not. either you go close to rain and enter— we align or not. either you go close to rain and enter the _ we align or not. either you go close to rain and enter the single - we align or not. either you go close| to rain and enter the single market, or accept— to rain and enter the single market, or accept to — to rain and enter the single market, or accept to he _ to rain and enter the single market, or accept to he a _ to rain and enter the single market, or accept to be a real— to rain and enter the single market, or accept to be a real tiger, - to rain and enter the single market, or accept to be a real tiger, which . or accept to be a real tiger, which the chemicals _ or accept to be a real tiger, which the chemicals industry— or accept to be a real tiger, which the chemicals industry don't - or accept to be a real tiger, which| the chemicals industry don't want. this is bananas. _ the chemicals industry don't want. this is bananas. you _ the chemicals industry don't want. this is bananas. you are _ the chemicals industry don't want. this is bananas. you are basicallyi this is bananas. you are basically sitting _ this is bananas. you are basically sitting there _ this is bananas. you are basically sitting there saying _ this is bananas. you are basically sitting there saying you _ this is bananas. you are basically sitting there saying you are - this is bananas. you are basicallyl sitting there saying you are willing to accept — sitting there saying you are willing to accept a — sitting there saying you are willing to accept a negotiation _ sitting there saying you are willing to accept a negotiation and - sitting there saying you are willing to accept a negotiation and free i to accept a negotiation and free movement— to accept a negotiation and free movement and _ to accept a negotiation and free movement and facing. - to accept a negotiation and free movement and facing. you i to accept a negotiation and free i movement and facing. you literally 'ust movement and facing. you literally just said _ movement and facing. you literally just said that _ movement and facing. you literally just said that l— movement and facing. you literally just said that-— just said that. i really want the chemicals _ just said that. i really want the chemicals to be _ just said that. i really want the chemicals to be less _ just said that. i really want the | chemicals to be less regulated! just said that. i really want the i chemicals to be less regulated! let darren answer. just _ chemicals to be less regulated! let darren answer. just to _ chemicals to be less regulated! let darren answer. just to push - chemicals to be less regulated! let darren answer. just to push you, . chemicals to be less regulated! let darren answer. just to push you, i | darren answer. just to push you, i did not even — darren answer. just to push you, i did not even say _ darren answer. just to push you, i did not even say the _ darren answer. just to push you, i did not even say the words - darren answer. just to push you, i did not even say the words free i did not even say the words free movement and i didn't say we would be open _ movement and i didn't say we would be open to— movement and i didn't say we would be open to negotiating this. all i said it _ be open to negotiating this. all i said it is — be open to negotiating this. all i said it is you should be careful when — said it is you should be careful when you _ said it is you should be careful when you are quoting me and make sure you _ when you are quoting me and make sure you are — when you are quoting me and make sure you are accurate. what i said is that— sure you are accurate. what i said is that when— sure you are accurate. what i said is that when you are in negotiation with another party, that other party can tiring _ with another party, that other party can bring what they wish. you could say guite _ can bring what they wish. you could say quite clearly now in the studio you will— say quite clearly now in the studio you will never negotiate and fishing _ you will never negotiate and fishing. please don't misquote me because _ fishing. please don't misquote me because it — fishing. please don't misquote me because it is not very professional. i because it is not very professional. iwon't _ because it is not very professional. i won't accept that. i because it is not very professional. i won't accept that.— i won't accept that. i have been clear. i won't accept that. i have been clear- what _ i won't accept that. i have been clear. what i _ i won't accept that. i have been clear. what i have _ i won't accept that. i have been clear. what i have said - i won't accept that. i have been clear. what i have said and i i won't accept that. i have been | clear. what i have said and what rachel— clear. what i have said and what rachel has — clear. what i have said and what rachel has said is the trade deal you signed up to is not good enough. it is you signed up to is not good enough. it is not _ you signed up to is not good enough. it is not good enough. and businesses have said it is not good enough _ businesses have said it is not good enough it— businesses have said it is not good enough. it is restricting their ability— enough. it is restricting their ability to— enough. it is restricting their ability to grow. that is why if we are going — ability to grow. that is why if we are going to get investment and growth — are going to get investment and growth back in the economy we are going _ growth back in the economy we are going to _ growth back in the economy we are going to have to improve on the deal that you _ going to have to improve on the deal that you left the country. it is going to have to improve on the deal that you left the country.— that you left the country. it is not aood that you left the country. it is not good enough _ that you left the country. it is not good enough because _ that you left the country. it is not good enough because we - that you left the country. it is not| good enough because we wouldn't that you left the country. it is not - good enough because we wouldn't make those concessions— good enough because we wouldn't make those concessions on _ good enough because we wouldn't make those concessions on free _ good enough because we wouldn't make those concessions on free movement i those concessions on free movement and fisheries — those concessions on free movement and fisheries you _ those concessions on free movement and fisheries-— and fisheries. you don't have to. well why rrot _ and fisheries. you don't have to. well why not establish _ and fisheries. you don't have to. well why not establish them i and fisheries. you don't have to. well why not establish them as i and fisheries. you don't have to. i well why not establish them as red lines commit — well why not establish them as red lines commit to _ well why not establish them as red lines commit to them _ well why not establish them as red lines commit to them now? - well why not establish them as red lines commit to them now? i - well why not establish them as red lines commit to them now? i was l well why not establish them as red i lines commit to them now? i was part of discussions — lines commit to them now? i was part of discussions around _ lines commit to them now? i was part of discussions around the _ lines commit to them now? i was part of discussions around the financial- of discussions around the financial services _ of discussions around the financial services and — of discussions around the financial services and the _ of discussions around the financial services and the memorandum i of discussions around the financial services and the memorandum of| services and the memorandum of understanding _ services and the memorandum of understanding. we— services and the memorandum of understanding. we diverged i services and the memorandum of understanding. we diverged very| understanding. we diverged very little from — understanding. we diverged very little from the european - understanding. we diverged very little from the european union. i understanding. we diverged very. little from the european union. one of the _ little from the european union. one of the big _ little from the european union. one of the big points _ little from the european union. one of the big points on _ little from the european union. one of the big points on divergence i little from the european union. one of the big points on divergence hasi of the big points on divergence has been _ of the big points on divergence has been the _ of the big points on divergence has been the ability _ of the big points on divergence has been the ability for _ of the big points on divergence has been the ability for the _ of the big points on divergence has been the ability for the uk - of the big points on divergence has been the ability for the uk to - of the big points on divergence has been the ability for the uk to have | been the ability for the uk to have its own— been the ability for the uk to have its own solvency— been the ability for the uk to have its own solvency rules _ been the ability for the uk to have its own solvency rules for - its own solvency rules for insurance _ its own solvency rules for insurance. the _ its own solvency rules for insurance. the abi - its own solvency rules for insurance. the abi said l its own solvency rules for insurance. the abi said it its own solvency rules for - insurance. the abi said it would free up— insurance. the abi said it would free up £100 _ insurance. the abi said it would free up £100 billion— insurance. the abi said it would free up £100 billion of- free up £100 billion of infrastructure - free up £100 billion of. infrastructure investment free up £100 billion of- infrastructure investment and investment— infrastructure investment and investment in— infrastructure investment and investment in new— infrastructure investment and investment in new green i investment in new green technologies. _ investment in new green technologies. are - investment in new green technologies. are you i investment in new green i technologies. are you going investment in new green - technologies. are you going to investment in new green _ technologies. are you going to forgo that by— technologies. are you going to forgo that by saying. — technologies. are you going to forgo that by saying. as— technologies. are you going to forgo that by saying, as rachel— technologies. are you going to forgo that by saying, as rachel seems - technologies. are you going to forgo that by saying, as rachel seems to i that by saying, as rachel seems to be, that— that by saying, as rachel seems to be, that you — that by saying, as rachel seems to be, that you want _ that by saying, as rachel seems to be, that you want to _ that by saying, as rachel seems to be, that you want to move - that by saying, as rachel seems to be, that you want to move back. that by saying, as rachel seems to. be, that you want to move back into regutatory— be, that you want to move back into regulatory alignment _ be, that you want to move back into regulatory alignment on _ be, that you want to move back into regulatory alignment on financial. regulatory alignment on financial services? — regulatory alignment on financial services? a— regulatory alignment on financial services? a very _ regulatory alignment on financial services? a very clear, _ regulatory alignment on financial services? a very clear, yes - regulatory alignment on financial services? a very clear, yes or- regulatory alignment on financial| services? a very clear, yes or no, is that— services? a very clear, yes or no, is that on— services? a very clear, yes or no, is that on the _ services? a very clear, yes or no, is that on the table? _ services? a very clear, yes or no, is that on the table? we - services? a very clear, yes or no, is that on the table?— is that on the table? we haven't said that. we _ is that on the table? we haven't said that. we set _ is that on the table? we haven't said that. we set an _ is that on the table? we haven't said that. we set an chemicals l said that. we set an chemicals regulation, and food, where we rely on exports — regulation, and food, where we rely on exports from the eu, we think on areas _ on exports from the eu, we think on areas like _ on exports from the eu, we think on areas like touring markets, as well as on_ areas like touring markets, as well as on energy and defence, there is room _ as on energy and defence, there is room to— as on energy and defence, there is room to improve our relationship with the — room to improve our relationship with the european union. how room to improve our relationship with the european union. how come if ou want with the european union. how come if you want put— with the european union. how come if you want put things — with the european union. how come if you want put things that _ with the european union. how come if you want put things that the _ you want put things that the european union themselves are saying? european union themselves are sa inc? . . european union themselves are sa inc? , . ., european union themselves are sa inc? _, ., ., , . saying? explain to our viewers, what have the main _ saying? explain to our viewers, what have the main benefits _ saying? explain to our viewers, what have the main benefits of _ saying? explain to our viewers, what have the main benefits of brexit - have the main benefits of brexit being? have the main benefits of brexit beinu? �* . ., have the main benefits of brexit beinu? a ., , ~ being? aside from the ability, like every other _ being? aside from the ability, like every other sovereign _ being? aside from the ability, like every other sovereign country, - being? aside from the ability, like every other sovereign country, to | every other sovereign country, to make our own rules and laws, just as canada makes its own rules and laws, it sits next to the largest single market in the world, it has the ability to do that. i will give one, which ijust gave the darren. the uk rules, it's quite arcane, but very important, because it frees up capital from important, because it frees up capitalfrom our important, because it frees up capital from our life important, because it frees up capitalfrom our life insurance capital from our life insurance sector, capitalfrom our life insurance sector, from people's future pensions, 100 billion of capital, the abi, rachel talks to them a lot, the abi, rachel talks to them a lot, the abi, rachel talks to them a lot, the abi says it will allow them to invest 100 billion more over the lifetime of the next government. that was a clear point. one clear point where we diverged. is one of the factors that you can't talk about the benefits and what has been delivered? taste talk about the benefits and what has been delivered?— talk about the benefits and what has been delivered? we saw the advantage of bein: been delivered? we saw the advantage of being outside _ been delivered? we saw the advantage of being outside the _ been delivered? we saw the advantage of being outside the european - of being outside the european medicines agency where we got the vaccine rolled out. that was a very big achievement but it is important these thingses are about the future, these thingses are about the future, the regulation of ai, the regulation of gene editing.— of gene editing. focus on what we sa we of gene editing. focus on what we say we might _ of gene editing. focus on what we say we might do — of gene editing. focus on what we say we might do it _ of gene editing. focus on what we say we might do it is _ of gene editing. focus on what we say we might do it is going - of gene editing. focus on what we say we might do it is going to - of gene editing. focus on what we say we might do it is going to be l say we might do it is going to be complicated _ say we might do it is going to be complicated to _ say we might do it is going to be complicated to unwind _ say we might do it is going to be complicated to unwind the - say we might do it is going to be complicated to unwind the knot. | say we might do it is going to be . complicated to unwind the knot. we have been a memberfor decades but what is staggering the labour party wants to retangle ourself into a new negotiation and they are talking about the costing some brexit, there were going to be some dislocation for industry but i don't think cow erase them without rejoining. be for industry but i don't think cow erase them without rejoining. erase them without re'oining. be for real. when erase them without re'oining. be for rear. when you b erase them without re'oining. be for real. when you look— erase them without rejoining. be for real. when you look at _ erase them without rejoining. be for real. when you look at the - erase them without rejoining. be for real. when you look at the impact i erase them without rejoining. be forj real. when you look at the impact of brexit. _ real. when you look at the impact of brexit. on_ real. when you look at the impact of brexit, on the fishing sector, for instance. — brexit, on the fishing sector, for instance. so— brexit, on the fishing sector, for instance, so 83%, there has been 83% fall irr— instance, so 83%, there has been 83% fail in our— instance, so 83%, there has been 83% fall in our fishing exports to the eu. fall in our fishing exports to the eli their— fall in our fishing exports to the eu. theirwere our fall in our fishing exports to the eu. their were our biggest export, why? _ eu. their were our biggest export, why? because we have introduced this red tape _ why? because we have introduced this red tape which will impact small and medium _ red tape which will impact small and medium businesses, now, the reality of how— medium businesses, now, the reality of how you _ medium businesses, now, the reality of how you cope with that will be that we — of how you cope with that will be that we become more of a rule take e it witt— that we become more of a rule take e it will be _ that we become more of a rule take e it will be that we enter into closer regulatory— it will be that we enter into closer regulatory alignment with the yu with less — regulatory alignment with the yu with less of a say, that is nature of brexit. — with less of a say, that is nature of brexit, now there might be reasons— of brexit, now there might be reasons you go, well, you know, there _ reasons you go, well, you know, there are — reasons you go, well, you know, there are other benefits and they outweigh — there are other benefits and they outweigh the cost bus the way fishing — outweigh the cost bus the way fishing is— outweigh the cost bus the way fishing is held up as this tome of uk sovereignty when that he is one of the _ uk sovereignty when that he is one of the industries that hasn't sold down _ of the industries that hasn't sold down the — of the industries that hasn't sold down the river the most. it would not excite — down the river the most. it would not excite viewers _ down the river the most. it would not excite viewers but... - down the river the most. it would not excite viewers but... why - down the river the most. it would | not excite viewers but... why not? we have using _ not excite viewers but... why not? we have using the _ not excite viewers but... why not? we have using the ability - not excite viewers but... why not? we have using the ability to - not excite viewers but... why not? we have using the ability to set - not excite viewers but... why not? | we have using the ability to set our own environmental standards, we have raised the standards of animal welfare, banned the bottom trawling in the sussex bay, we have the rablt to standards. truth? in the sussex bay, we have the rablt to standards-— to standards. why aren't you talking about it. it to standards. why aren't you talking about it- it put _ to standards. why aren't you talking about it. it put this _ to standards. why aren't you talking about it. it put this back— to standards. why aren't you talking about it. it put this back on - to standards. why aren't you talking about it. it put this back on the - about it. it put this back on the table. about it. it put this back on the table- the _ about it. it put this back on the table. the issue _ about it. it put this back on the table. the issue seemed - about it. it put this back on the table. the issue seemed to - about it. it put this back on the table. the issue seemed to be | table. the issue seemed to be settled. keir— table. the issue seemed to be settled. keir starmer - table. the issue seemed to be settled. keir starmer changed | table. the issue seemed to be i settled. keir starmer changed his position— settled. keir starmer changed his position again on this. rachel reeves — position again on this. rachel reeves flip—flopped all round. i am reeves flip-flopped all round. i am talkin: reeves flip-flopped all round. i am talking about _ reeves flip-flopped all round. i am talking about the _ reeves flip—flopped all round. i—n talking about the record in terms of the benefit as you see it of brexit and you look at polls would you say that the fact that some poll are the putting the conservative party on fewer than 100 seat, is only one or two, but is that partly to do with the failure there in many people's eyes of delivering brexit. it eyes of delivering brexit. it through be difficult to win a fifth consecutive term in government. so there is lots of reasons we are facing a difficult challenge, the thing i notices is no interest in a labour government. people are not enthusiastically embracing stormroom, it does not feel like a rush to tony blairism, i shouldn't mention tony blair. he rush to tony blairism, i shouldn't mention tony blair.— mention tony blair. he is not my dad. mention tony blair. he is not my dad- thanks _ mention tony blair. he is not my dad. thanks for _ mention tony blair. he is not my dad. thanks for clarifying - mention tony blair. he is not my dad. thanks for clarifying that. i dad. thanks for clarifying that. look, dad. thanks for clarifying that. look. this _ dad. thanks for clarifying that. look, this is _ dad. thanks for clarifying that. look, this is another _ dad. thanks for clarifying that. look, this is another issue - dad. thanks for clarifying that. | look, this is another issue isn't dad. thanks for clarifying that. i look, this is another issue isn't it where we have got shouty toryings saying to the publish be scared, and labour has a credible plan for change, and we have got to get our politics back to a place where instead of this shouting and noise, you set out what your offer is, what is your offer on improving the relationship with europe in the course of the next parliament. do you think it is fine? you are the one criticising the long—standing settlement that the uk is living, breathing working with, making its rules. you were the one, stop interrupting me, you were the one that criticised that, you said it's a bad deal, a matter that the british peoplel view as settled that we are moving from. you are criticising and naively thinking we will reopen, reopen this issue that has been settled. that is not about what henry and i are saying that is about you guys picking something that has been settled. {line about you guys picking something that has been settled.— that has been settled. one point about this reopening _ that has been settled. one point about this reopening you - that has been settled. one point about this reopening you know l that has been settled. one point| about this reopening you know in 2025/26 — about this reopening you know in 2025/26 there is a statry review where _ 2025/26 there is a statry review where the — 2025/26 there is a statry review where the uk government will have to look at _ where the uk government will have to look at tow— where the uk government will have to look at tow the tca is being implemented. if you win the election you will— implemented. if you win the election you will have to go through that process— you will have to go through that process in— you will have to go through that process in the same way that a labour— process in the same way that a labour government will, if you do, do you _ labour government will, if you do, do you think— labour government will, if you do, do you think everything is fine? 30 do you think everything is fine? sc free do you think everything is fine? ’sr free movement do you think everything is fine? 5r free movement and fishing are red lines, so that is clear, there is a clear difference between our approach to that an yours. d0 clear difference between our approach to that an yours. do you want a wholesale _ approach to that an yours. do you want a wholesale renegotiation i approach to that an yours. do you want a wholesale renegotiation of that deal? ., ~' want a wholesale renegotiation of that deal? ., ,, . that deal? no, we think there are certain areas _ that deal? no, we think there are certain areas we _ that deal? no, we think there are certain areas we can _ that deal? no, we think there are certain areas we can improve - that deal? no, we think there are certain areas we can improve our| certain areas we can improve our relationship and the eu will want stuff and we will and we will have the negotiation his. abs, stuff and we will and we will have the negotiation his.— stuff and we will and we will have the negotiation his. a report from a think-tank says _ the negotiation his. a report from a think-tank says your _ the negotiation his. a report from a think-tank says your policy - the negotiation his. a report from a think-tank says your policy of - the negotiation his. a report from a think-tank says your policy of these think—tank says your policy of these are their words of tinkering with technical changes to boost trade will have minimal impact and do little to address the continuing economic impacts of brexit. why not embrace wholesale renegotiation if you they is this thing to do? i you they is this thing to do? i think that growled would you they is this thing to do? i think that growled would like it to go further but keir starmer said with are not rejoining the european union so we are working welcome back our own red lines but even within those, where we are not rejoining the eu or the single market or the customs union we think there is room to improve trading relationships and cooperation on security and defence which is sensible. you cooperation on security and defence which is sensible.— which is sensible. you have red lines but fisheries _ which is sensible. you have red lines but fisheries are - which is sensible. you have red lines but fisheries are and - which is sensible. you have red lines but fisheries are and free | lines but fisheries are and free movement are not among them. i want to ick movement are not among them. i want to pick up with henry, _ movement are not among them. i want to pick up with henry, you _ movement are not among them. i want to pick up with henry, you were - movement are not among them. i want to pick up with henry, you were in - to pick up with henry, you were in the level willing up department until recently working with michael gove. how would you assess the state of the conservative party now, half way or just of the conservative party now, half way orjust over half way through this campaign? do you agree with grant shapps about state of the party, it is unlikely they are going to win and there is probably going to win and there is probably going to be a supermajority. think to win and there is probably going to be a supermajority.— to win and there is probably going to be a supermajority. to be a superma'ority. think that is what they — to be a supermajority. think that is what they are pointing _ to be a supermajority. think that is what they are pointing to, - to be a supermajority. think that is what they are pointing to, there . to be a supermajority. think that is what they are pointing to, there is| what they are pointing to, there is a real risk of a enormous labour majority that tries to tinker with the constitution, what we have seen discussing brexit is that keir starmer changed his position, he was in favour of starmer changed his position, he was infavour of remain, starmer changed his position, he was in favour of remain, then in favour of delivering referendum, then he wants a custom younes when he wanted... i wants a custom younes when he wanted- - -_ wants a custom younes when he wanted... . . i. . wanted... i am asking you about the state of conservative _ wanted... i am asking you about the state of conservative party. - wanted... i am asking you about the state of conservative party. the - state of conservative party. the #ki79 has _ state of conservative party. the #ki79 has been _ state of conservative party. the #ki79 has been in _ state of conservative party. the: #ki79 has been in power state of conservative party. tie: #ki79 has been in power for state of conservative party. tt9: #ki79 has been in power for 14 state of conservative party. tt9 #ki79 has been in power for 14 year, #ki79 has been in powerfor14 year, it is a very long time and i think the public, it would naturally i can see that desire for a change in the country, i think that is change for all conservatives and conservative politicians to face but when i look at our record if levelling up which you mentioned i am proud of it. share you mentioned i am proud of it. are ou? you mentioned i am proud of it. are you? yes. — you mentioned i am proud of it. are you? yes. no-one _ you mentioned i am proud of it. are you? yes, no-one could _ you mentioned i am proud of it. are you? yes, no-one could say - you mentioned i am proud of it. are you? yes, no-one could say you - you mentioned i am proud of it. are| you? yes, no-one could say you can transform — you? yes, no-one could say you can transform the _ you? yes, no-one could say you can transform the entire _ you? yes, no-one could say you can transform the entire economic- you? yes, no-one could say you can transform the entire economic o - transform the entire economic o geography of a country in five year, that would be ludicrous, particularly when we had a global pandemic but when you look at the changes we made it is starting to bear fruit in all sorts of places. do you agree it was central to the 2019 campaign, this idea of levelling up, literally different parts of the country and perhaps giving money to those areas underfunded historically. it is underfunded historically. it is about power. _ underfunded historically. it is about power, a _ underfunded historically. it 3 about power, a change of approach, notjust money. d0 about power, a change of approach, notjust money-— notjust money. do you they that rishi sunak _ notjust money. do you they that rishi sunak is _ notjust money. do you they that rishi sunak is behind _ notjust money. do you they that rishi sunak is behind the - notjust money. do you they that. rishi sunak is behind the levelling up rishi sunak is behind the levelling up agenda in this election? think he has been. up agenda in this election? think he has been- l — up agenda in this election? think he has been. i have _ up agenda in this election? think he has been. i have worked _ up agenda in this election? think he has been. i have worked in - up agenda in this election? think he has been. i have worked in the. - has been. i have worked in the. every department wants their department to get more michelle obama. but department to get more michelle obama. �* . :. . department to get more michelle obama. �* , ., . obama. but this was at the forefront. _ obama. but this was at the forefront, centre, - obama. but this was at the forefront, centre, key... i obama. but this was at the | forefront, centre, key... we obama. but this was at the - forefront, centre, key... we have not forefront, centre, key... we have got mayors _ forefront, centre, key... we have got mayors directly _ forefront, centre, key... we have got mayors directly elected - forefront, centre, key... we have i got mayors directly elected mayors and devolved local government, this is hugely important, it means you have... ~ :,, is hugely important, it means you have... ~ . is hugely important, it means you have... . i is hugely important, it means you have..._ i don't - is hugely important, it means you have. . ._ i don't mind i have... most lain. i don't mind that, i would _ have... most lain. i don't mind that, i would rather— have... most lain. i don't mind that, i would rather they - have... most lain. i don't mind that, i would rather they were | that, i would rather they were conservative. having strong local leadership is key, if i was the labour party trying to find ways of improving growth i would be behind this, we don't know whether the levelling up money allocated recently will they claw back the levelling up fund money, will they try and pull all this back, give it to racz in the treasury and let he respend it. to racz in the treasury and let he respend it— to racz in the treasury and let he respend it.- we _ to racz in the treasury and let he respend it.- we are - respend it. darren? we are committing _ respend it. darren? we are committing to _ respend it. darren? we are committing to doing - respend it. darren? we are committing to doing a - respend it. darren? we are - committing to doing a spending review— committing to doing a spending review because we have to. you put it on the table _ review because we have to. you put it on the table because _ review because we have to. you put it on the table because you - review because we have to. you put it on the table because you haven't i it on the table because you haven't set out any spending plans for any departments in the next financial year, we are committed to tackling regional inequality, committed to devolution but we are committed to doing thejob devolution but we are committed to doing the job well unlike your record which has been shown to be a campaign slogan and not really meaningful change for anyone. can i... meaningful change for anyone. can l- -- chorley — meaningful change for anyone. can l- -- chorley or _ meaningful change for anyone. can i... chorley or newcastle _ meaningful change for anyone. can i... chorley or newcastle or - meaningful change for anyone. can i... chorley or newcastle or south | i... chorley or newcastle or south tyneside. — i. .. chorley or newcastle or south tyneside. will— i... chorley or newcastle or south tyneside, will you _ i. .. chorley or newcastle or south tyneside, will you claw— i... chorley or newcastle or south tyneside, will you claw back - i... chorley or newcastle or south | tyneside, will you claw back money allocated and in the process of being spent. d0 allocated and in the process of being spent-— allocated and in the process of bein: sent. ,, , being spent. do you think people there think _ being spent. do you think people there think you _ being spent. do you think people there think you have _ being spent. do you think people there think you have done - being spent. do you think people there think you have done a - being spent. do you think people| there think you have done a good job? _ there think you have done a good 'ob? , :. there think you have done a good 'ob? , . :, , :, :, . job? they want to see more of what we have done- _ job? they want to see more of what we have done. only— job? they want to see more of what we have done. only a _ job? they want to see more of what we have done. only a fraction - job? they want to see more of what we have done. only a fraction of- job? they want to see more of whatj we have done. only a fraction of the money has — we have done. only a fraction of the money has been _ we have done. only a fraction of the money has been allocated _ we have done. only a fraction of the money has been allocated and - we have done. only a fraction of the. money has been allocated and spent. it takes a while to spend it. well... , :, well... darren is not saying he will, he won't _ well. .. darren is not saying he will, he won't claw— well... darren is not saying he will, he won't claw back - well... darren is not saying he will, he won't claw back that i well... darren is not saying he - will, he won't claw back that money. he said, in fact he said there will be a spending review... by, he said, in fact he said there will be a spending review... a spending review. one — be a spending review. .. a spending review, one has— be a spending review... a spending review, one has to _ be a spending review... a spending review, one has to happen. - be a spending review. .. a spending review, one has to happen. i - be a spending review... a spending review, one has to happen. i will. review, one has to happen. i will let ash in — review, one has to happen. i will let ash in and _ review, one has to happen. i will let ash in and then _ review, one has to happen. i will let ash in and then we _ review, one has to happen. i will let ash in and then we will- review, one has to happen. tirn it let ash in and then we will move on. nothing works in this country and thatis nothing works in this country and that is the case outside london, when you look at basic infrastructure, whether it is trains or trying to get a driving test booked within six months, nothing works, and levelling up was, i think, could have been a good step forward for the conservative party, it could have been an interesting way for you guys to you know realign the electoral geography of this country and you squandered it. you spent your political capital protecting a prime minister unsuited for government and instead what has happened is rather than levelling up money even slowing down decline, in regions outside of london, you have seen an acceleration of that kind of decline, so when you talk about tyneside or chorley, you talk about bradford or where ever, these are places that have suffered the most under 1a years of conservative government, i think you are right in saying labour aren't being on the up—and—up about what they are going to do. the likelihood is they will try and find ways of spending mohr money than less. let try and find ways of spending mohr money than less.— try and find ways of spending mohr money than less. let me show you in front- -a~e money than less. let me show you in front-page of— money than less. let me show you in front-page of the _ money than less. let me show you in front-page of the daily _ money than less. let me show you in front-page of the daily mail. - money than less. let me show you in front-page of the daily mail. rishi, i front—page of the daily mail. rishi, keir starmer only wants votes at 16 to entrench his power, the labour manifesto contained plans to extend the vote to 16 and 17, it was in your 2019 election manifesto too and on times radio sir mark spencer said labour would change the voting system to stay in power, your response?— system to stay in power, your response? system to stay in power, your resonse? :, , . :, , . , response? the only age group that is su ortives response? the only age group that is supportives of _ response? the only age group that is supportives of the _ response? the only age group that is supportives of the conservatives - response? the only age group that is supportives of the conservatives are | supportives of the conservatives are over 71. supportives of the conservatives are over71. doesn't supportives of the conservatives are over 71. doesn't matter whether you are 50, 40, 30 or16, we want to extend the rights to 16, 17—year—olds because it is right thing to do people across the country are looking at the changed labour party, manifesto for change, looking at the chaos from the conservatives and saying do you know what, i think i will vote labour on july 4th and i hope they do. conservative party allows people to join at 15 and have full voting rate, in that case they could vote for the next prime minister which they did in the case of liz truss. there is a settle position in this country. there is a very settled position about 18 being the age of majority for our civic responsibilities, darren's party support that on almost every other respect except one they think will delivered a vantage, so when it comes to the age you can drink and 18 is the settled majority legal age, we even have special youth custodial sentences for the people aged between 16 and 18 because they are not subject to adultjustice, this is the most outrageous form of trying to engineer a political system. it is part of an attack on our settled constitution and it would clever this government a supermajority, it could last a generation and do untold damage to you, yourfamily and generation and do untold damage to you, your family and wallet. so generation and do untold damage to you, your family and wallet.- you, your family and wallet. so you juan mata them _ you, your family and wallet. so you juan mata them to _ you, your family and wallet. so you juan mata them to do _ you, your family and wallet. so you juan mata them to do national - juan mata them to do national service. — juan mata them to do national service. i_ juan mata them to do national service, i am talking ant the policy of mandatory national service rishi sunak— of mandatory national service rishi sunak was— of mandatory national service rishi sunak was going on about a couple of weeks _ sunak was going on about a couple of weeks ago? _ sunak was going on about a couple of weeks ago? so that is under 18, am i correct _ weeks ago? so that is under18, am i correct that— weeks ago? so that is under 18, am i correct.. that is 18—year—olds. the correct.. that is 18-year-olds. the school leaving _ correct.. that is 18—year—olds. tt9 school leaving age is 18 as well. so every other aspect, requires the age of 18. i every other aspect, requires the age of 18. :. :. every other aspect, requires the age of 18. . . , :, every other aspect, requires the age of18. . . : of 18. i am glad you corrected me. quickl , of 18. i am glad you corrected me. quickly. henry. — of 18. i am glad you corrected me. quickly, henry. the _ of 18. i am glad you corrected me. quickly, henry. the point - of 18. i am glad you corrected me. quickly, henry. the point i - of 18. i am glad you corrected me. quickly, henry. the point i want i of 18. i am glad you corrected me. | quickly, henry. the point i want to make is giving _ quickly, henry. the point i want to make is giving young _ quickly, henry. the point i want to make is giving young people - quickly, henry. the point i want to make is giving young people a - quickly, henry. the point i want to | make is giving young people a stake in society. when it comes to every budget that has come there, young people have been completely... ltrutha people have been completely... who we don't trust _ people have been completely... who we don't trust 12—year—olds to make decisions that control their autonomy. decisions that control their autonomy-— decisions that control their autonomy. decisions that control their autonom. ,, :, , . . autonomy. quickly we only have a few seconds to go — autonomy. quickly we only have a few seconds to go young _ autonomy. quickly we only have a few seconds to go young people _ autonomy. quickly we only have a few seconds to go young people get - seconds to go young people get completely. _ seconds to go young people get completely. l— seconds to go young people get completely, i can't _ seconds to go young people get completely, i can't say - seconds to go young people get completely, i can't say this - seconds to go young people get - completely, i can't say this enough, they are hard done by by budgets and should have say over decisions. that a oint should have say over decisions. that a point because _ should have say over decisions. that a point because they think in terms of things like housing and represent they ignored. ltrutha of things like housing and represent they ignored-— they ignored. who wouldn't think that. it is cuba, _ they ignored. who wouldn't think that. it is cuba, north _ they ignored. who wouldn't think that. it is cuba, north korea, - they ignored. who wouldn't think i that. it is cuba, north korea, these are the _ that. it is cuba, north korea, these are the countries with votes under 18 and _ are the countries with votes under 18 and for— are the countries with votes under 18 and for this sort of big change, ithink— 18 and for this sort of big change, i think the — 18 and for this sort of big change, i think the i— 18 and for this sort of big change, i think the i think if you want to make _ i think the i think if you want to make big — i think the i think if you want to make big changes put to it the vote and put _ make big changes put to it the vote and put a _ make big changes put to it the vote and put a referendum, that is what we had _ and put a referendum, that is what we had in _ and put a referendum, that is what we had in 2001 when we changed, there _ we had in 2001 when we changed, there was— we had in 2001 when we changed, there was a — we had in 2001 when we changed, there was a referendum on potentially changing the voting system — potentially changing the voting system on alternative vote it was defeated. think _ system on alternative vote it was defeated. think it _ system on alternative vote it was defeated. think it is _ system on alternative vote it was defeated. think it is crazy - system on alternative vote it was defeated. think it is crazy to - system on alternative vote it was defeated. think it is crazy to rig l defeated. think it is crazy to rig the constitution in your favour so you are... the constitution in your favour so you are- - -— the constitution in your favour so ou are... ~ . you are... well the important thing is ou you are... well the important thing is you should _ you are... well the important thing is you should all _ you are... well the important thing is you should all vote _ you are... well the important thing is you should all vote and - you are... well the important thing is you should all vote and here - you are... well the important thing is you should all vote and here are| is you should all vote and here are some of the deadline, we have got the deadline to register to vote is 11.59 tonight, if you want to get a postal vote you will need to apply by 5pm tomorrow and if you need to apply 0 for a proxy vote the deadline is 5pm today at 1:00pm, four retired detectives who ran the original stephen lawrence murder investigation will not face criminal charges. a review found there wasn't enough evidence for a realistic prospect of any convictions. also on the programme... the last chance to ensure you have your say in the general election — millions of potential voters are urged to sign up before tonight's registration deadline. extreme heatwaves are affecting millions of people in europe and the united states, with many americans being told to stay indoors. while here, the number of slugs and snails is said to be surging as a result of the unseasonably wet weather. and coming up on bbc news, scotland look to bounce back from their opening defeat as steve clarke's side trained this morning before heading to cologne for their game against switzerland tomorrow. a review has concluded that four retired police detectives who oversaw the first stephen lawrence murder investigation should not face criminal charges for their actions in the case. the decision means no officers have been held criminally responsible