Transcripts For BBCNEWS BBC 20240626

so all of those parties will be trying to win their votes and what do they and other boaters make of the campaign is? as part of our election coverage, we have teamed up with radio one's news beats, doing a race across the uk, stopping across the way at locations known at checkpoints, some of which have been chosen by listeners, and we spent the day with their politics reporter. fix, the day with their politics reporter-— the day with their politics reorter. �* ~ reporter. a race across the uk. a microphone — reporter. a race across the uk. a microphone at — reporter. a race across the uk. a microphone at one _ reporter. a race across the uk. a microphone at one end _ reporter. a race across the uk. a microphone at one end of- reporter. a race across the uk. a microphone at one end of the - reporter. a race across the uk. a microphone at one end of the uk| reporter. a race across the uk. a - microphone at one end of the uk and going all the way to the other. we are just pulling into our next checkpoint after about eight hours on this boat and it is liverpool. are you interested in the election coming on the lith ofjuly? everything just seems awful and i think_ everything just seems awful and i think this — everything just seems awful and i think this year it willjust be a case — think this year it willjust be a case of— think this year it willjust be a case of voting for the least awful. what _ case of voting for the least awful. what you — case of voting for the least awful. what you think are the important issues ahead of the general election to young people here in liverpool? it is so scary when you go out because — it is so scary when you go out because you _ it is so scary when you go out because you don't _ it is so scary when you go out because you don't know- it is so scary when you go out because you don't know whol it is so scary when you go out - because you don't know who could be around _ because you don't know who could be around any _ because you don't know who could be around any corner— because you don't know who could be around any corner and _ because you don't know who could be around any corner and that _ because you don't know who could be around any corner and that needs - because you don't know who could be around any corner and that needs to. around any corner and that needs to be addressed, — around any corner and that needs to be addressed, with _ around any corner and that needs to be addressed, with knife _ around any corner and that needs to be addressed, with knife crime - around any corner and that needs to be addressed, with knife crime andl be addressed, with knife crime and things— be addressed, with knife crime and things like — be addressed, with knife crime and things like that, _ be addressed, with knife crime and things like that, it— be addressed, with knife crime and things like that, it has— be addressed, with knife crime and things like that, it has shot - be addressed, with knife crime and things like that, it has shot up - be addressed, with knife crime and things like that, it has shot up in l things like that, it has shot up in the last— things like that, it has shot up in the last few_ things like that, it has shot up in the last few years _ things like that, it has shot up in the last few years and _ things like that, it has shot up in the last few years and it - things like that, it has shot up in the last few years and it is - the last few years and it is terrifying _ the last few years and it is terrifying-— the last few years and it is terri inr. ..,, ., , terrifying. the cost of everything is a nightmare _ terrifying. the cost of everything is a nightmare at _ terrifying. the cost of everything is a nightmare at the _ terrifying. the cost of everything is a nightmare at the moment i terrifying. the cost of everything l is a nightmare at the moment and terrifying. the cost of everything - is a nightmare at the moment and we have come _ is a nightmare at the moment and we have come out and i had to borrow nioney_ have come out and i had to borrow money because i am not owning enough nioney_ money because i am not owning enough nioney to— money because i am not owning enough nioney to do— money because i am not owning enough money to do the things that i want to do— money to do the things that i want to do and — money to do the things that i want to do and i— money to do the things that i want to do and i am 19 and want to be able— to do and i am 19 and want to be able to— to do and i am 19 and want to be able to go— to do and i am 19 and want to be able to go out and have a good time with nry— able to go out and have a good time with my friends.— able to go out and have a good time with my friends. liverpool has about seven schools _ with my friends. liverpool has about seven schools and _ with my friends. liverpool has about seven schools and colleges -- - seven schools and colleges —— universities and colleges, so what are the top priorities for students here in liverpool?— here in liverpool? supports what mental health, _ here in liverpool? supports what mental health, for _ here in liverpool? supports what mental health, for children - here in liverpool? supports what mental health, for children and l mental health, for children and young — mental health, for children and young people. _ mental health, for children and young people. it— mental health, for children and young people, it has— mental health, for children and i young people, it has skyrocketed mental health, for children and - young people, it has skyrocketed and the need _ young people, it has skyrocketed and the need to— young people, it has skyrocketed and the need to be — young people, it has skyrocketed and the need to be more _ young people, it has skyrocketed and the need to be more going _ young people, it has skyrocketed and the need to be more going in, - young people, it has skyrocketed and the need to be more going in, not. the need to be more going in, not taken _ the need to be more going in, not taken out — the need to be more going in, not taken out. , ., ., ., the need to be more going in, not taken out-— taken out. this national service “ust taken out. this national service just seems _ taken out. this national service just seems disastrous - taken out. this national service just seems disastrous and - taken out. this national service. just seems disastrous and would taken out. this national service - just seems disastrous and would be a reason _ just seems disastrous and would be a reason to— just seems disastrous and would be a reason to vote for the conservatives.- reason to vote for the conservatives. ., , conservatives. has that put you off ”uttin conservatives. has that put you off putting them _ conservatives. has that put you off putting them entirely? _ conservatives. has that put you off putting them entirely? calmac- conservatives. has that put you off putting them entirely? calmac i - putting them entirely? calmac i don't feel like i have been given reasons— don't feel like i have been given reasons to — don't feel like i have been given reasons to vote for them specifically but that wouldn't help. they are _ specifically but that wouldn't help. they are all the same. lots specifically but that wouldn't help. they are all the same.— they are all the same. lots of --eole they are all the same. lots of people seem _ they are all the same. lots of people seem to _ they are all the same. lots of people seem to say _ they are all the same. lots of people seem to say that - they are all the same. lots of people seem to say that what | they are all the same. lots of i people seem to say that what do they are all the same. lots of - people seem to say that what do you mean? , ., ., people seem to say that what do you mean? , . ., ,., people seem to say that what do you mean? , . . ,., ,., . ,, people seem to say that what do you mean? , . ., . ~ ., mean? they are all the same pack of lies and for— mean? they are all the same pack of lies and for instance, _ mean? they are all the same pack of lies and for instance, after _ mean? they are all the same pack of lies and for instance, after school, i lies and for instance, after school, the youngsters, _ lies and for instance, after school, the youngsters, no _ lies and for instance, after school, the youngsters, no jobs _ lies and for instance, after school, the youngsters, no jobs available i the youngsters, no jobs available for theni — the youngsters, no jobs available for theni or— the youngsters, no jobs available for them or anything _ the youngsters, no jobs available for them or anything and - the youngsters, no jobs available for them or anything and they. the youngsters, no jobs available l for them or anything and they can't io for them or anything and they can't go on _ for them or anything and they can't go onjob—seekers_ for them or anything and they can't go onjob—seekers or— for them or anything and they can't go onjob—seekers or things- for them or anything and they can't go onjob—seekers or things like . go onjob—seekers or things like that and — go onjob—seekers or things like that and you _ go onjob—seekers or things like that and you don't _ go onjob—seekers or things like that and you don't want - go onjob—seekers or things like that and you don't want them i go onjob—seekers or things likel that and you don't want them on that, _ that and you don't want them on that, trut— that and you don't want them on that, but even— that and you don't want them on that, but even if, _ that and you don't want them on that, but even if, there - that and you don't want them on that, but even if, there is - that and you don't want them on that, but even if, there is no - that and you don't want them onl that, but even if, there is no help for the _ that, but even if, there is no help for the young _ that, but even if, there is no help for the young people _ that, but even if, there is no help for the young people getting - for the young people getting employed _ for the young people getting employed-— for the young people getting emlo ed. ~ . ,, employed. what issues are most im ortant employed. what issues are most important to _ employed. what issues are most important to you _ employed. what issues are most important to you guys _ employed. what issues are most important to you guys as - employed. what issues are most important to you guys as young i important to you guys as young people? important to you guys as young --eole? ,, , ., ., ., people? the nhs needs a lot more fundin: people? the nhs needs a lot more funding and — people? the nhs needs a lot more funding and l _ people? the nhs needs a lot more funding and i think _ people? the nhs needs a lot more funding and i think the _ people? the nhs needs a lot more funding and i think the nurses - funding and i think the nurses especially deserve a fair wage. gr especially deserve a fair wage. ©1irr did especially deserve a fair wage. ©i�*r did you especially deserve a fair wage. did you vote especially deserve a fair wage. (1) did you vote for at the last election? i did you vote for at the last election?— did you vote for at the last election? ., �* ~ ., ., , election? i don't think i voted last time stop what — election? i don't think i voted last time stop what has _ election? i don't think i voted last time stop what has changed - election? i don't think i voted last time stop what has changed this | election? i don't think i voted last - time stop what has changed this time that ou do time stop what has changed this time that you do want _ time stop what has changed this time that you do want to _ time stop what has changed this time that you do want to boot? _ time stop what has changed this time that you do want to boot? if- time stop what has changed this time that you do want to boot? if you're i that you do want to boot? if you're unha-- that you do want to boot? if you're unhappy and _ that you do want to boot? if you're unhappy and don't _ that you do want to boot? if you're unhappy and don't make _ that you do want to boot? if you're unhappy and don't make your - that you do want to boot? if you're | unhappy and don't make your voice heard _ unhappy and don't make your voice heard it _ unhappy and don't make your voice heard it will — unhappy and don't make your voice heard it will never change so it may only be _ heard it will never change so it may only be a _ heard it will never change so it may only be a little voice but it is still — only be a little voice but it is still a — only be a little voice but it is still a voice. —— that you do want to vote — still a voice. -- that you do want to vote. ., ., to vote. now, 'oining me here in the sin room to vote. now, joining me here in the spin room ahead _ to vote. now, joining me here in the spin room ahead of— to vote. now, joining me here in the spin room ahead of the _ to vote. now, joining me here in the spin room ahead of the bbc's - to vote. now, joining me here in the spin room ahead of the bbc's prime | spin room ahead of the bbc�*s prime ministerial debate is the head of political communications at nottingham trent university and i suppose in terms of political communications, a debate like this is a big opportunity so what are you looking at in terms of the two men communicating effectively? it is looking at in terms of the two men communicating effectively?- communicating effectively? it is a bi communicating effectively? it is a his opportunity — communicating effectively? it is a his opportunity for— communicating effectively? it is a big opportunity for the _ communicating effectively? it is a big opportunity for the universityl big opportunity for the university but also — big opportunity for the university but also for me as a political analyst _ but also for me as a political analyst i— but also for me as a political analyst. i think the first thing we should _ analyst. i think the first thing we should say— analyst. i think the first thing we should say is that, look, these debates— should say is that, look, these debates are meant to bring the politicians and the public closer together— politicians and the public closer together and it's a chance for the public— together and it's a chance for the public to— together and it's a chance for the public to evaluate the performance of their— public to evaluate the performance of their potential leaders. whether it actually— of their potential leaders. whether it actually does that or not, i think— it actually does that or not, i think is— it actually does that or not, i think is a _ it actually does that or not, i think is a different question and i think— think is a different question and i think leaders can sometimes retract slightly— think leaders can sometimes retract slightly rather than actually showing they are authentic selves, if you _ showing they are authentic selves, if you like. — showing they are authentic selves, if you like, so i think the viewers should _ if you like, so i think the viewers should be — if you like, so i think the viewers should be really looking towards those _ should be really looking towards those small moments where the leader actually— those small moments where the leader actually offers something authentic for themselves, about themselves. rees are _ for themselves, about themselves. rees are seeing pictures of the prime minister, rishi sunak, arriving and as you assess political communication, how do you balance the content of what is being said reverses its tone and style, because presumably both matter? that reverses its tone and style, because presumably both matter?— presumably both matter? that is an im ortant presumably both matter? that is an important question _ presumably both matter? that is an important question and _ presumably both matter? that is an important question and that - presumably both matter? that is an important question and that is - presumably both matter? that is an important question and that is the l important question and that is the fundamental point we have here, because for all that rishi sunak is saying, is nonverbal communication has cut somewhat of a kind of anxious figure in the last few weeks. undoubtably, the issues around the betting has taken some toll on him but there is that sense that this hasn't gone too well for him. in the case of keir starmer, he has been keeping himself quite under wraps and it'll be interesting to see tonight whether he perhaps not quite show votes, but really shows an greater element of competence. tell me about nonverbal communication and what you are looking for on what might work in terms of nonverbal communication or what you don't want to do. fine terms of nonverbal communication or what you don't want to do.— what you don't want to do. one thing ou don't what you don't want to do. one thing you don't want _ what you don't want to do. one thing you don't want to _ what you don't want to do. one thing you don't want to do _ what you don't want to do. one thing you don't want to do and _ what you don't want to do. one thing you don't want to do and one - what you don't want to do. one thing you don't want to do and one thing i what you don't want to do. one thing you don't want to do and one thing a| you don't want to do and one thing a lot of politicians do do, where they feel threatened or perhaps feel a bit back into a corner, they will start a sentence with the word, look, go, look, and it is almost like a schoolmaster and that doesn't always pulled one with the electorate and it seems to be a sort of defensive reaction —— doesn't always bowed well with the electorate. in terms of the positives, you can sometimes see them, it would be rude to start shifting around the stage, but if they begin to sort of move a bit and their shoulders come back a bit you could see that they are maybe not enjoying it but they are certainly far more comfortable with the situation they are in the, but it really depends on the questioning and the extent to which they are able to just think on their feet and that moment. share able to just think on their feet and that moment-— able to just think on their feet and that moment. are very interesting, thank ou that moment. are very interesting, thank you for— that moment. are very interesting, thank you for talking _ that moment. are very interesting, thank you for talking to _ that moment. are very interesting, thank you for talking to us, - that moment. are very interesting, thank you for talking to us, colin i thank you for talking to us, colin alexander, senior lecturer in political communication here at nottingham trent university. we need to be watching out for body language and tone and we of course need to be watching out for content as well of what both men say and if you are wondering about the formats, each question will come from the audience and then once that subject has been introduced, the two men will debate it with each other with my bbc news collie, mishal husain, intervening if she deems it necessary. we will talk to some those people who have advised others going into high—profile debates and i'm joined by former liberal democrats adviser and a former snp adviser. —— my bbc news colleague. if i could start with you, what advice do you give to liberal democrat politicians when they are going into these moments where they will be scrutinised to the nth degree.— where they will be scrutinised to the nth degree. yes, i mean i think that he said — the nth degree. yes, i mean i think that he said it — the nth degree. yes, i mean i think that he said it all, _ the nth degree. yes, i mean i think that he said it all, it _ the nth degree. yes, i mean i think that he said it all, it is _ the nth degree. yes, i mean i think that he said it all, it is about - that he said it all, it is about being authentic, relaxed, confident, and whilst ed davey is obviously not in the room this evening, i think throughout the campaign you have seen that from him and he has had a lot of fun with it, clearly, but the more people see of him, the more they like him and i think he comes across as self—assured, confident, and i think that point about being authentic and letting people see you for who you are, that is just absolutely crucial. for who you are, that is 'ust absolutely crucial. although, i . uess, absolutely crucial. although, i ruess, if absolutely crucial. although, i guess. if i _ absolutely crucial. although, i guess, ifi could _ absolutely crucial. although, i guess, ifi could bring - absolutely crucial. although, i guess, if i could bring you - absolutely crucial. although, i guess, ifi could bring you in, | guess, if i could bring you in, jeff, adding the ambition of being competent, authentic and relaxed is one thing but actually delivering it is a hard thing to do. how could you help politicians prepare to try to be those things?— help politicians prepare to try to be those things? yes, i will come to that in a second _ be those things? yes, i will come to that in a second but _ be those things? yes, i will come to that in a second but one _ be those things? yes, i will come to that in a second but one thing - be those things? yes, i will come to that in a second but one thing i - that in a second but one thing i always— that in a second but one thing i always think is important and i supported the first minister at a number— supported the first minister at a number of different televised debates, is to make sure they go in and introduce themselves to the audience — and introduce themselves to the audience beforehand, speak to as niany_ audience beforehand, speak to as many people as possible and ingratiate yourself and that is a good _ ingratiate yourself and that is a good tactic before begin the debate itself and i followed the rule of three. — itself and i followed the rule of three, you might know broadly what the subjects will be, maybe not the specific _ the subjects will be, maybe not the specific questions, but know the subjects — specific questions, but know the subjects and note the pre—back things— subjects and note the pre—back things you want to return to at all tinies— things you want to return to at all times and — things you want to return to at all times and make them as quick and succinct _ times and make them as quick and succinct as— times and make them as quick and succinct as possible and always look at the _ succinct as possible and always look at the audience and not the opponents when you answer the questions. —— know the three things you want— questions. —— know the three things you want to — questions. —— know the three things you want to return to. but i always look at — you want to return to. but i always look at the _ you want to return to. but i always look at the audience and not the opponents when you answer the questions. —— know the three things you want— questions. —— know the three things you want to — questions. —— know the three things you want to return to. but i was advised _ you want to return to. but i was advised the — you want to return to. but i was advised the politicians i work for to rememberthe advised the politicians i work for to remember the rule of three. that are interesting, _ to remember the rule of three. that are interesting, jeff, _ to remember the rule of three. trust are interesting, jeff, but you have to also debate with the person you are on stage with. are you saying that once the subject has been introduced you should just keep turning back to the audience and not look at your opponent at all? engage our look at your opponent at all? engage your opponent _ look at your opponent at all? engage your opponent on — look at your opponent at all? engage your opponent on the _ look at your opponent at all? engage your opponent on the first _ look at your opponent at all? engage your opponent on the first bit - look at your opponent at all? engage your opponent on the first bit of- your opponent on the first bit of the answer, and then once you have made _ the answer, and then once you have made your— the answer, and then once you have made your point in response, which is usually— made your point in response, which is usually a — made your point in response, which is usually a rebuttal to that much of your— is usually a rebuttal to that much of your opponent, you then turn to the audience and make your pitch about— the audience and make your pitch about what your passion is for that particular— about what your passion is for that particular issue because that is ultimately your employers out there, the people _ ultimately your employers out there, the people you are trying to convince. _ the people you are trying to convince, not the person next to you. _ convince, not the person next to you. you — convince, not the person next to you, you won't have luck with that, so always _ you, you won't have luck with that, so always try — you, you won't have luck with that, so always try to engage with the audience — so always try to engage with the audience as much as possible throughout a debate.- audience as much as possible throughout a debate. when you are advisin: throughout a debate. when you are advising politicians, _ throughout a debate. when you are advising politicians, venus, - throughout a debate. when you are advising politicians, venus, how. advising politicians, venus, how would you advise them to prepare and think about the key messages they want to get across a bus is the risk of looking too wooden and overly rehearsed? —— versus the risk. i think it comes back to that point about being relaxed and speaking directly to the voters, whether at home or in the room, and that is crucial, and it is very similar in the sense we were always told paint in primary colours, and i've always try to hammer that point home, and we want the messages to be memorable and to land, much longer than the debate lasts, and so i think that, you know, if you can do that. five weeks into the campaign, you know the message, it is about delivering it with that confidence and are witness, as i say, because that reassures the voters out there that you a plan and you can deliver and you a plan and you can deliver and you know what you are talking about. both of you will have worked with experienced politicians who know how to stand up in front of people and make a case of these are not strangers to public speaking and scrutiny by any means, butjeff, these tv debates, today bring an additional level of pressure beyond what even seasoned politicians might experience in day—to—day politics? i always say you can't win an election at one _ always say you can't win an election at one of— always say you can't win an election at one of these debates but you can certainly— at one of these debates but you can certainly lose one with a big faux pas. _ certainly lose one with a big faux pas. a _ certainly lose one with a big faux pas. a big — certainly lose one with a big faux pas, a big mistake of ralph got you a moment. — pas, a big mistake of ralph got you a moment, so what of the first things— a moment, so what of the first things that any adviser will say is niaking _ things that any adviser will say is making sure there isn't that big mistake — making sure there isn't that big mistake that everyone remembers that could potentially impact polling, even _ could potentially impact polling, even though we all expect a labour victory— even though we all expect a labour victory and — even though we all expect a labour victory and reporting it look so stark— victory and reporting it look so stark on— victory and reporting it look so stark on but that is the principal, you nrust— stark on but that is the principal, you must avoid a big mistake, particularly this close to polling day. particularly this close to polling day~ -- — particularly this close to polling day. —— gotcha moment. particularly this close to polling day. -- gotcha moment.- particularly this close to polling day. -- gotcha moment. there is a risk, if day. -- gotcha moment. there is a risk. if you — day. -- gotcha moment. there is a risk, if you consider _ day. -- gotcha moment. there is a risk, if you consider what _ day. -- gotcha moment. there is a risk, if you consider what jep - day. -- gotcha moment. there is a risk, if you consider what jep is - risk, if you consider whatjep is saying and i don't dismiss it, that all politicians are incredibly defensive coming into these formats because they are more concerned about not having a gaffe, rather than making a positive case for who they are and what they stand for. i think you also have to recognise at this stage that these are people at the end of the date you have been on the end of the date you have been on the road for a gruelling five weeks and they will be travelling up and down the country and speaking to voters day in, day out, doing lots of different media appearances so there is absolutely a risk that they can come across as defensive, fed up, not willing to meet people where they are and sort of engage with them on the issues, and so, it is as important that they had to be note remains open and willing to engage and have that conversation with the boater —— they had to be note remains open. and it is difficult when you are starting this debate this evening, coming off the back of probably what has already been a long day. —— their demeanour remains open. long day. -- their demeanour remains 0 en. , ' ., , long day. -- their demeanour remains oen., ' . , ., long day. -- their demeanour remains oen. ' . , ., ., open. jeff, when leaders go into this kind of _ open. jeff, when leaders go into this kind of debate, _ open. jeff, when leaders go into this kind of debate, they - open. jeff, when leaders go into this kind of debate, they have i open. jeff, when leaders go into| this kind of debate, they have to talk across a whole range of policies and remember a huge amount of information and when you are working with scotland's first minister or other senior snp figures, how would you go about supporting them simply remembering all of it? taste supporting them simply remembering all of it? ~ . supporting them simply remembering all of it? ~ , ., supporting them simply remembering all of it? ~ . ., ., supporting them simply remembering all of it? ~ , ., ., ., ., supporting them simply remembering allofit? , ., .,. ., ., all of it? we used to do a lot of re . l all of it? we used to do a lot of prep, rehearsals, _ all of it? we used to do a lot of prep, rehearsals, and - all of it? we used to do a lot of prep, rehearsals, and whetherl all of it? we used to do a lot of. prep, rehearsals, and whether the principal— prep, rehearsals, and whether the principal opponents were, we would actually _ principal opponents were, we would actually mock that up in a venue and look at _ actually mock that up in a venue and look at what — actually mock that up in a venue and look at what they had said before to try to _ look at what they had said before to try to anticipate the questions that would _ try to anticipate the questions that would be _ try to anticipate the questions that would be asked and go pretty rough on the _ would be asked and go pretty rough on the first minister to ensure they were _ on the first minister to ensure they were preparing them properly but that rule — were preparing them properly but that rule of three i was talking about— that rule of three i was talking about this important and those are your stock— about this important and those are your stock answers and everything about _ your stock answers and everything about on _ your stock answers and everything about on the night, your character, you can _ about on the night, your character, you can embellish that but you have to have _ you can embellish that but you have to have your— you can embellish that but you have to have your position, how would you adopt— to have your position, how would you adopt a _ to have your position, how would you adopt a particular position going forward — adopt a particular position going forward and how you can make that relevant _ forward and how you can make that relevant to — forward and how you can make that relevant to the audience, those are the things— relevant to the audience, those are the things you should try to remember and the things you should try to rememberand if you the things you should try to remember and if you have those three things— remember and if you have those three things on— remember and if you have those three things on each issue, to return to, that is— things on each issue, to return to, that is a _ things on each issue, to return to, that is a good basis to start from. i'm interested to hear you mention rehearsal and that pre—empts the final question i have for you, venus, which is how much rehearsal should a lead up to and how helpful is rehearsing? you should a lead up to and how helpful is rehearsing?— is rehearsing? you can be all that rehearsed and _ is rehearsing? you can be all that rehearsed and that _ is rehearsing? you can be all that rehearsed and that is _ is rehearsing? you can be all that rehearsed and that is a _ is rehearsing? you can be all that rehearsed and that is a real - is rehearsing? you can be all that i rehearsed and that is a real problem and you don't want to look good doing and look like these are lines you are just delivering in a really robotic manner. —— how much rehearsal should a leader do. there are only so many hours in a day and you should actually get out, we have seen a day be launched into rivers and all sorts, this campaign, so i think we don't want you to be over rehearsed or anything like this and you don't want to be underrehearsed and it is very goldilocks and is definitely not a science but in art. we will see how the two leaders fair in a few minutes' time but it has been great to speak to both of you and that is venus and lee, former liberal democrat adviser, and jeff, who is a former snp adviser and we are under half an hourfrom the debate now where we will see mishal husain along side keir starmer and rishi sunak in front of an audience of over 100 people so let's find out how the bbc will cover the debate as it happens, because every go to the bbc�*s it happens, because every go to the bbc�*s newsroom in london, bbc a verify is based there and our colleague, nick eardley, is live there and i should ask you whether you are ready. i there and i should ask you whether you are ready-— you are ready. i think so. i think so is the — you are ready. i think so. i think so is the answer. _ you are ready. i think so. i think so is the answer. we _ you are ready. i think so. i think so is the answer. we have i you are ready. i think so. i think| so is the answer. we have spent weeks now going through all the big claims the parties are making, trying to figure out what we can trust and what you should be a bit sceptical of and also putting some of the bigger debates in context and something that really struck me, the team here have worked on all the big tv debates now and what struck me as there is actually quite a wide range of subjects come up, and we don't know for sure what will come up tonight but we can have a stab at the things that get particularly contentious and do some prep work for that and as a whole team just off camera who has spent the whole day getting ready for that and there is a bbc live page which will have all of those updates on putting things into context and trying to explain a bit more about the claims that will run throughout the debate, and we will have more hair on the bbc news channel and online and on the ten o'clock news and on bbc breakfast and rope, going through some of the claims that have been made. ijust want some of the claims that have been made. i just want to some of the claims that have been made. ijust want to run some of the claims that have been made. i just want to run through some of the things that may well come up tonight. the first thing is this, dubious party claims. we have seen a few of these over the course of the campaign and you may have seen bbc verify and others calling them out and saying you need to understand how these figures are arrived at and the conservative saying tax will go up £2000 under labour and the tories are saying mortgages will go up under the conservatives and both claims by parties here and we try to figure out how parties have got to these figures, explain it and let you make your mind up but the truth is both of these are potentially misleading because the way they arrived at these figures is pretty dubious and involves a lot of assumptions and also involves doing some calculations at the end which don't really stack up so that is why we have talked a lot about these things. but i think the second part of ourjob tonight and over the rest of ourjob tonight and over the rest of the campaign is stuff like this, talking about issues like the nhs backlog, because when it comes up, the parties have an argument over whether things are going well or not and it is pretty clear when you look at this graphic which shows you the backlog in england that it has gone up backlog in england that it has gone up quite a lot, but you may have heard rishi sunak say last week on question time at the backlog is now coming down but it is actually a bit more complicated than that and i will do something quite perilous and zoom in here, this is what has happened recently, it has come down a bit but that production has stagnated and in the recent figures, it actually went up a tiny bit, so part of ourjob tonight will be looking at some of the big topics that come up, anything from tax to the economy and immigration, could be anything, and we will look at all of that and try to put it in context to equip everybody to make a decision about what they trust and what they don't trust, and we will present that in a way that hopefully makes the argument is that you will hear over the next couple of hours make a bit more sense.— hear over the next couple of hours make a bit more sense. thank you very much — make a bit more sense. thank you very much indeed _ make a bit more sense. thank you very much indeed for— make a bit more sense. thank you very much indeed for taking i make a bit more sense. thank you very much indeed for taking a i make a bit more sense. thank you | very much indeed for taking a screw that, nick, and in case people are watching and thinking this looks really helpful, just run us through where bbc verify�*s clarifications on context will appear both through the debate and in the aftermath. i think one of the most _ debate and in the aftermath. i think one of the most important - debate and in the aftermath. i think one of the most important thing i debate and in the aftermath. i think one of the most important thing is i one of the most important thing is for keeping up—to—date over the course of this election has been the bbc news website so there is a live page which is up already which will have all ourfact page which is up already which will have all our fact checks running on there and there will then be a story afterwards if you want to check it afterwards if you want to check it after the debate because you are watching it, when we talk about some of the key claims and try to put them in context. we will be on radio four and we will be on five live tomorrow and we will be here on the news channel and on the tv bulletins explaining some of the big claims and putting them in context and lots of nice graphics like this which hopefully takes them a bit make a bit more sense.— hopefully takes them a bit make a bit more sense. thank you very much indeed, bit more sense. thank you very much indeed. nick. — bit more sense. thank you very much indeed, nick, so _ bit more sense. thank you very much indeed, nick, so bbc— bit more sense. thank you very much indeed, nick, so bbc verify's- bit more sense. thank you very much indeed, nick, so bbc verify's work. indeed, nick, so bbc verify's work will be and lots of different places but if you are watching the debate, you can also keep track of how people verify is responding to what is being said through the live page and if you go to the website or app, you can follow that and the debate at the same time. and there are now 25 minutes to go until the debates, where sir keir starmer and rishi sunak will take questions from the audience here at nottingham trent university so let's look at how we assess what we hear from both men and we have patrick english from the polling company yougov he was their director of analytics and i suppose when it comes to analytics, moments like this generates a lot of them. they certainly do generally a lot of stories and this will be more about the stories tonight, not so many people watch these debates, but more about how they come across in the media and which looks more prime ministerial and which ones do voters look at and just to run the country and how that will shape a boat off behaviour as we move forward. hagar behaviour as we move forward. how ruickl do behaviour as we move forward. how quickly do you _ behaviour as we move forward. how quickly do you try _ behaviour as we move forward. how quickly do you try to measure that? we do a snap poll so we will try to get an immediate reaction from the voters on what they thought about the debate and over the course of the debate and over the course of the night to try to get more metrics on who won on certain issues. it is 930 after the _ on who won on certain issues. it is 930 after the debate, what you do, how does that work? haste 930 after the debate, what you do, how does that work?— 930 after the debate, what you do, how does that work? we have people watchin: how does that work? we have people watching the — how does that work? we have people watching the debate _ how does that work? we have people watching the debate on _ how does that work? we have people watching the debate on standby, i watching the debate on standby, poring over it, and a minute and closes, they answer is short survey and there is a team of at a yougov who will process it in record time and drop it to my colleague who will pass it to me and we announced the results within a few minutes. going be ond results within a few minutes. going beyond this — results within a few minutes. going beyond this evening, _ results within a few minutes. going beyond this evening, you _ results within a few minutes. going beyond this evening, you can i results within a few minutes. going beyond this evening, you can then get a bit deeper into how people are perceived, what both men said and how they set it?— how they set it? exactly, it will be about those _ how they set it? exactly, it will be about those sound _ how they set it? exactly, it will be about those sound bites _ how they set it? exactly, it will be about those sound bites and i how they set it? exactly, it will be l about those sound bites and looking at those moments of comic today look down at the camera and get a solid answer to something? the clips that come out for the new cycles into the newspapers and that is what most voters will consume and what they will interact with tonight and make theirjudgments accordingly. in will interact with tonight and make theirjudgments accordingly. their 'udgments accordingly. in what ou theirjudgments accordingly. in what ou tell can theirjudgments accordingly. in what you tell can you _ theirjudgments accordingly. in what you tell can you understand - theirjudgments accordingly. in what you tell can you understand how i you tell can you understand how people react to what politicians say? i remember back in 2010 when nick clegg was widely seen to have done well and he started looking down the lens in a way previously politicians had to really done and people noticed the difference. can we tell whether looking at the audience in the room and looking at the host, mishal husain, looking at their rival, looking down the barrel, looking down the lens, do you know which one is best? the research we _ you know which one is best? iie: research we have done you know which one is best? "ii9 research we have done shows you know which one is best? i“i9 research we have done shows that voters like to things from politicians in debates, they want to hear answers and they don't like when debates are turned into a shouting match and the keywords of the voters describes the first head—to—head debate with was frustrating and i didn't enjoy what they saw undercutting across so i think what they will hope for tonight and a tactic that will be best served by both men will be to give their answers and let the debate flow because that is what voters respond best to na experience.— voters respond best to na experience. voters respond best to na exerience. ., experience. looking at the campaign more broadly. _ experience. looking at the campaign more broadly, is _ experience. looking at the campaign more broadly, is it— experience. looking at the campaign more broadly, is it an _ experience. looking at the campaign more broadly, is it an exception i experience. looking at the campaign more broadly, is it an exception to i more broadly, is it an exception to say that with the exception of reform shifting up slightly there hasn't been much movement? hate reform shifting up slightly there hasn't been much movement? we have seen a slight — hasn't been much movement? we have seen a slight decline _ hasn't been much movement? we have seen a slight decline in _ hasn't been much movement? we have seen a slight decline in the _ seen a slight decline in the conservative vote share put the lead has been consistent throughout this campaign, something we perhaps did not expect when the election was announced, the lead tends to narrow typically, and we have not seen that an nigel farage's decision to enter the race and stand as a candidate and a leader of reform uk was the biggest moment in the polls were reform going up and those other parties going down a bit. tiara reform going up and those other parties going down a bit. two poles a shift in the _ parties going down a bit. two poles a shift in the last _ parties going down a bit. two poles a shift in the last week _ parties going down a bit. two poles a shift in the last week or— parties going down a bit. two poles a shift in the last week or two i a shift in the last week or two these tend to stay pretty stable at this point? share these tend to stay pretty stable at this oint? : , :, .. , this point? are historically speaking. _ this point? are historically speaking. they _ this point? are historically speaking, they tend i this point? are historically speaking, they tend to i this point? are historically. speaking, they tend to shift this point? are historically i speaking, they tend to shift in this point? are historically - speaking, they tend to shift in the last week and into the final day but we are not that great pool of nos, those 2019 voters but didn't know what to do, they are breaking evenly across parties and that explains why the lead is still where it is. what the lead is still where it is. what percentage _ the lead is still where it is. what percentage of — the lead is still where it is. what percentage of voters _ the lead is still where it is. what percentage of voters do - the lead is still where it is. what percentage of voters do you i the lead is still where it is. what percentage of voters do you think i get to decide? hate percentage of voters do you think i get to decide?— percentage of voters do you think i get to decide? we estimate 13 to 50 -- 1596 of the _ get to decide? we estimate 13 to 50 -- 1596 of the electorate _ get to decide? we estimate 13 to 50 -- 1596 of the electorate are - —— 15% of the electorate are undecided so there is a lot of the boat out there that is soft and that is a reflection of the political reality when you have a unpopular incumbent and people aren't infused with the opposition and the alternative so there are lots of soft boats out there and a lot of uncertainty. soft boats out there and a lot of uncertainty-— soft boats out there and a lot of uncertain . ~ :, , ., , ., uncertainty. when does that straw oll uncertainty. when does that straw poll arrived? _ uncertainty. when does that straw poll arrived? a _ uncertainty. when does that straw poll arrived? a few _ uncertainty. when does that straw poll arrived? a few minutes i uncertainty. when does that straw poll arrived? a few minutes after. | poll arrived? a few minutes after. oh, ve poll arrived? a few minutes after. on. very quickly- _ poll arrived? a few minutes after. oh, very quickly. thank _ poll arrived? a few minutes after. oh, very quickly. thank you i poll arrived? a few minutes after. oh, very quickly. thank you for. 0h, very quickly. thank you for speaking to us. as i have alluded to, we are building up to this debate which will be hosted by night bbc news colleague, mishal husain, and she will be coming towards the end of her preparations and that is an excellent article written by mishal husain talking about how she has been working up to this event which is on the front page of the bbc news website if you want to look at it i'd mishal husain has been speaking to our colleague reeta chakrabarti about this evening's debate. here we are on the stage where the debate is about to take place. tell us how it will pan out. we have turned this corner of the university campus into our debate stage and we're standing just between the two podiums with the leaders will be. i will be in front of them and then the audience behind and you will see quite a simple format really, a simple form of unfiltered democracy, if you like, where one by one, the questioners will stand up and put their questions to both the leaders and it will be myjob to nudge them back to the question if necessary at times, to move the debate on, because obviously we want to cover as many topics as possible, we are in this crucial period of the election campaign. because in nine days, one of these two men will be prime minister. that is the aim, to get through a broad range of topics and allow those in the audience to have their say and ultimately to see how these two men respond. their words, of course, but also their tone and their demeanour with each other. that is mishal husain who will be hosting the debate which begins at age 15 and you can see it on bbc news, bbc one, bbc iplayer and you can hear it on bbc sounds too. —— at 815. you can probably see the sun streaming through the window here in nottingham where it is beginning to go down and it has been a very warm afternoon and while it was already warm in this room when i arrived earlier, there weren't so many people, but now it is at capacity and many have arrived to watch this debate and we're also seeing senior figures from the labour party and conservative party here as well and that debate is finished at 930, they will be here telling us how they think they are prospective leader has done and the prospective leader has done and the prospective leader has done and the prospective leader has done underweight these debates work, they are carefully plotted out and broadcasters who host them speak to the parties involved about the format and all of these things are settled in advance of their arrival. i have been speaking tojonathan monro, the director ofjournalism at bbc news. hate monro, the director of 'ournalism at bbc news. ~ :. .. monro, the director of 'ournalism at bbc news. ~ ., ,, :, monro, the director of 'ournalism at bbcnews. ., ,, :, , bbc news. we talk to the parties, their press — bbc news. we talk to the parties, their press representatives - bbc news. we talk to the parties, their press representatives and i bbc news. we talk to the parties, | their press representatives and the leaders themselves over time and if they choose not to take part, that means they wouldn't be a head—to—head debate of this sort and with the seven way debates, some parties do choose to put up senior colleagues like the party spokesman or the deputy leader puts for this, it has to be the two people who could be the prime minister of this country and there is only two human beings who could do that, they can't send a stand in. that beings who could do that, they can't send a stand in.— send a stand in. that is jonathan monro, send a stand in. that is jonathan monro. one _ send a stand in. that is jonathan monro, one of— send a stand in. that is jonathan monro, one of the _ send a stand in. that is jonathan monro, one of the senior - send a stand in. that is jonathan monro, one of the senior figures from bbc news who has been involved in organising this debate and we have had to be interacting with the very start from the host of this debate, nottingham trent university, and i have spoken to vice chancellor of the university. hate and i have spoken to vice chancellor of the university.— of the university. we have been s-reakin of the university. we have been speaking to _ of the university. we have been speaking to you _ of the university. we have been speaking to you for _ of the university. we have been speaking to you for a _ of the university. we have been speaking to you for a while i of the university. we have been. speaking to you for a while about whether we have a venue big enough to meet your requirements and you decided we could and this is a perfect time of year for us, just after exams and report graduation ceremony so in that sense, the prime minister timed it very well for using this venue. lots of students are here helping, runners for the bbc and running some of their own journalism activity so they are learning from the experience which is great. learning from the experience which is treat. ~ :. learning from the experience which is treat. ~ ., :, , ., is great. what would this grand room normally be? — is great. what would this grand room normally be? this _ is great. what would this grand room normally be? this was _ is great. what would this grand room normally be? this was the _ is great. what would this grand room normally be? this was the local i normally be? this was the local authority's _ normally be? this was the local authority's museum _ normally be? this was the local authority's museum and - normally be? this was the local| authority's museum and library, built back in 1980. so authority's museum and library, built back in 1980.— authority's museum and library, built back in 1980. so the debate will be down _ built back in 1980. so the debate will be down a _ built back in 1980. so the debate will be down a few— built back in 1980. so the debate will be down a few stairs, - built back in 1980. so the debate will be down a few stairs, round. built back in 1980. so the debate i will be down a few stairs, round and about, and in an atrium? it was quite hot earlier, actually but it will be cooling down by the time they are there. it will be cooling down by the time they are there.— they are there. it connects to buildings _ they are there. it connects to buildings together _ they are there. it connects to buildings together and i they are there. it connects to buildings together and it i they are there. it connects to | buildings together and it used they are there. it connects to i buildings together and it used to be an underground car park so we built this wonderful glass roof which you will see and it's a flexible space which is a 120 seat theatre for your guests this evening with a stage at the front so i think it works well for us and for you. is the front so i think it works well for us and for you.— for us and for you. is the university _ for us and for you. is the university political- for us and for you. is the university political place| for us and for you. is the i university political place and for us and for you. is the - university political place and you see evidence of students engaging with the campaign? i see evidence of students engaging with the campaign?— see evidence of students engaging with the campaign? i think they will vote and not _ with the campaign? i think they will vote and not particularly _ with the campaign? i think they will vote and not particularly in - with the campaign? i think they will vote and not particularly in terms i vote and not particularly in terms of politics, we have a moderate, balanced student body you are here to get their degrees and we want to their careers but it is lively and making sure the students get the best studies they can and they don't engage particularly strongly outside of it and this will make them think about the election and hopefully get them to vote. many thanks to the vice chancellor for speaking to me and there is a lot of rockets behind me because that of the bbc prime ministerial debate, things are warming up because of the debate itself is very close to starting this just past eight o'clock and it will be under way in under 15 minutes and 15 is when it begins as the format we are looking add when on stage will be be be bbc and his colleague was hosting and on the labour party, sir keir starmer and its leader of the conservatives, prime minister rishi sunak and in front of them will be an audience for over a hundred people and some of those audience members will be asking questions and w debate between the two leaders

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