congresswoman madeleine dean on the gop attacks on our american justice system. keep it right here. ayman mohyeldin is next. good evening, everyone. tonight on ayman picture returns to the scene of its insurrections of the first time since leaving office offering a great preview of a potential second term. making florida proud. matt gaetz just proved why it pays to read up and new crackdowns for criticizing israel. you were here from a jewish professor in the united states whose job is on the line for standing up for palestinians. i'm ayman mohyeldin. let's do it. donald trump was back on capitol hill this week marking his first appearance since he attempted to generate six insurrection in 2021. the ex-president visit invigorated congressional republicans, uniting them with a singular goal pick establishing a gop lock on the hill come november. even those who once denounced trump, welcomed him back with open arms or with a handshake in the case of senate minority leader mitch mcconnell, who once called trump morally responsible for january 6. this comes as trump is been obsessing over using the powers of congress to fight on his behalf basically accusing democrats of weapon i think the department of justice against him. after manhattan jury found him guilty of 34 felony counts, the ex-president called house speaker mike johnson and according to the political reporting johnson told others trump said, quote, we have to overturn this. so far efforts from republicans have been wobbly because gop leaders worked in the bill that would allow presidents charged at the state level to move their cases to federal court. this is noteworthy because at that level a president, say trump, could dismiss criminal cases since his administration controls the department of justice. but this bill is nothing new. it was filed in april of last year and is only now being readied for floor action. on wednesday the houseboat to hold attorney general merrick garland in contempt past with a narrow majority. a single gop lawmaker joined all democrats in voting no. republicans got a timely reminder of what it's like when an agent of chaos like donald trump makes the rounds. nbc news confirmed in a closed meeting at the capitol hill club, trump called house republicans that milwaukee is a horrible city. of course milwaukee is the same city where the gop is holding its convention next month and where the ex-president is expected to be formally nominated as the republican presidential nominee. like a cursed game of telephone, gop politician scramble to come up with excuses. each making less sense than the last pick in the end, congressman bryan steil of wisconsin, who initially said it never happened relented by explaining, quote, he wasn't talking about the city. he was talking about specific issues in the city. to help clear things up today, trump posted on his knockoff twitter account claiming this story was made up by democrats. who would say such a thing with that important state in the ballots? one thing that is clear in all of this is if trump re-enters the white house, republicans will spend the next four years doing more of that you're trying to clear up his mess joining me now to discuss this is rick wilson, cofounder of the lincoln project and author of running against the devil: a plot to save american democrats from themselves and the president of the star strategies and host of the it matters with michael starr hopkins podcast great to have you with you. rick, it's something you've said in the past. trump does not want a free and fair election. he was to be coordinated we saw that through their primaries may try to get the gop basically to appoint him and anoint him as the nominee. how do you see his meeting this week on capitol hill an urgent request to speaker johnson speaking to that? >> first off, asking speaker johnson to find a way to overturn this case is natural thinking on a level that deserves a dungeons & dragons game built around it. it's never going to happen. but what trump does want is a lockstep republican caucus in the house and senate that will do everything he wants that will obey him and trying to cause as much chaos and disruption as he wants. so we will have endless impeachment hearings, endless investigations, which will amount to whatever the house can pull off. and he also enjoys ritually humiliating people like mitch mcconnell. mitch mcconnell hates donald trump and yet he went and bent than you. a lot of this republicans of the room think he's poisonous and yet they go and bend the knee. they are terrified of the man and he enjoys their fear. he enjoys their horror. he enjoys humiliating them and making them bow down to him for >> i want to turn to what punch bowl news has been calling a split screen like no other. the trump meeting with house republicans and insults and fantastical policy ideas whereas during his meeting with senate republicans he presented a more toned down persona, even complementing his former foes. do you believe that and to what do you owe that switch up? >> we have a lifetime of evidence to show who donald trump is but last time he was on the capitol there were 140 police officers injured and five killed. what donald trump should've been doing on capitol hill was laying a wreath in remembrance of them because it was his act that led to that and it was those members of congress who were there who almost killed mitch mcconnell is a coward and the republicans who follow him and follow donald trump are nothing but lemmings these are people who have no respect for trump behind closed doors capitulate to him in front of the press. and it's why they are going to lose come november. because people can identify with the fact that they are cowards and when the moment comes when it's time for them to do something about it, they won't. trump can try to clean up his image and try to be demure in one place and chaotic in another. but america knows who he is. he is a loser and that's why he lost last time and will lose again? >> and republicans, and the difference between the republicans and the senate in the house. you see these images of trump shaking hands with ted cruz and lindsey graham and josh hawley, these are all trump sycophants. not people who are at an arms distance away from the guy come even though they may want to, people like mitch mcconnell, tend to be somewhat distant from him the truth is they are not? >> no. they cannot escape this singularity of what trump has become inside the republican party and mitch mcconnell, again, he hates donald trump. he despises him working at his advisers say if we make an alliance with trump, we may survive. the irony here is the house is almost certainly going to go much more heavily democratic in november. and in part that is because of the clownish antics of people like jim jordan and jim comber and matt gaetz and marjorie taylor greene where american voters are just rejecting that kind of clownish, over-the-top performance art as a replacement for having a political philosophy where god for bid, doing what your constituents might find helpful. >> is senior republican spoke anonymously to politico saying we accuse democrats of urbanizing the justice system. that is exactly what we would be doing. talk to us about the blatant hypocrisy here. because it is the democrats that have not been weaponizing the justice department, but rather republicans. >> yeah. if you think of other crimes that donald trump committed. all the crimes that he could've been indicted for, the process with which democrats could've used to speed up some of these trials, in fact, it's the donald trump doj that weapon honest things. was aj barr who issued a report that was a summary that misled the american public. there is not one leader among these republicans who is willing to lose an election to stand up and say the right thing that's why they all do this anonymously and behind closed doors. the day where someone stands up to someone other than mitt romney, who stands up and says donald trump is a loser who is a threat to our democracy, that's when republicans will have a chance? >> and there was the trump doj that did not pursue the co- conspirator indictment against michael:. co-conspirator number one and that an indictment against michael cohen in the southern district of new york republicans rallied around trump after the manhattan conviction echoing claims of the doj being weapon nice but this week we saw hunter biden convicted on all three federal charges, federal felony gun charges and the president coming out and saying what he should say. that he will not pardon his son this is the justice system working as it is supposed to. is it not? >> this is precisely how the justice system ought to work. the white house had nothing to do with this pick the timing or content of hunter biden's trial. here's the irony. merrick garland took two years before he put jack smith into a position where he should investigate the crimes donald trump had been credibly accused of committing during his own term. but with hunter biden, they moved at the speed of heat to make sure a special prosecutor was appointed and pursue the case. and still pursuing the case. has the white house stopped it? or called morning joe: weekend a carpet? no. have they done anything? the president has come out and said i'm not going to pardon him. he has a right to appeal and i love my son. that's it . that's as far as he is gone. and these baroque conspiracy theories by the republicans that they weapon as justice system of the biden administration is causing donald trump -- it's donald trump who is a criminal who commits crimes at scale. that's why he is under all these investigations? >> biden did not go after the judge or after witnesses and do not intimidate anyone. did not demean the process. respected it and remained quiet and came out and said he would abide by it and not pardon his son. a power that he certainly has. we want to ask about an interview from our nbc news white house correspondent with the first lady. the first time she has talked to the press about hunter biden. take a listen. >> how difficult has this time. and for your family and was it like now to be on the campaign trail? >> well, you know, it was a tough week for my family because we had to relive, you know, the tough times. and so it was kind of hard to go back and hear all that again. but here we are. we have to get back. we have to win this election. and so, i think after the decision in the court, hunter was strong. so i have to take his example and just get out there and start again. joe and i both respect the judicial system and that's the bottom line. >> joe and i both respect the judicial system. something you would never hear from donald trump or anyone in his family. >> no. the biden family has handled this with grace and class and at the end of the day we should 100 to stay sober and pray addiction is something that is treated in more of a holistic way across this country are not criminalized, like i feel like this case has gone >> play stick around. we are more to discuss because next we have to talk about matt gaetz and the circus he made of a hearing on capitol hill. he put on a show that was clearly for an audience of one and one only. boring does. boring makes vacations happen, early retirements possible, and startups start up. because it's smart, dependable, and steady. all words you want from your bank. for nearly 160 years, pnc bank has been brilliantly boring so you can be happily fulfilled... which is pretty un-boring if you think about it. we're still going for that nice catch. we're still going for that perfect pizza. and with higher stroke risk from afib not caused by a heart valve problem,... ...we're going for a better treatment than warfarin. eliquis. eliquis reduces stroke risk. and has less major bleeding. over 97% of eliquis patients did not 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bragg and matthew colangelo on july 12 to discuss their involvement in the trump prosecution including their office coordination with the department of justice. it's a little absurd because mr. bragg and mr. colangelo have already agreed to appear before the committee on july 12. we have a letter to that effect so there's no point requiring them to do what they've already said they are going to do. >> the circus 10 years. all that wasted time and energy after bragg agreed to testify. again, purely performative by matt gaetz. we are doing the math here. does gaetz score points with trump for trying to subpoena alvin bragg or does he lose points for making a fool of themselves? >> look. make the full of yourself goes with the territory with donald trump. if you are a trump sycophant you will be made to engage in all this political stunt casting as matthew did. matt is a guy, he's not from any of those affirmation wings of the republican party. he's on the entertainment wing of the maga media industrial complex. what he is doing is just there to feed the fox news machine and beat his own email fundraising efforts and, yeah, if trump likes it, it's collateral. but all of this is about matt being a guy who's trying to position himself for a fox show in the future. it's not about leadership. he knew full well and ahead of the time that this was a stunt, just a prank. if you are someone as shallow as that and someone who is satisfied with posturing like that instead of actually providing legislative leadership, instead of actually being a stand up guy for your district in your constituents, which he doesn't care about he's absent from that role completely. he is there for the show. you're always going to have a guy like that who trump will like him because he's good on tv. the reality is if you are in trump's orbit, you are in full by definition >> and the funny part of this is that the hearing ended up getting so contentious that jim jordan called for a recess and it raises the question of what does it say about matt gaetz that he is making jim jordan seem like the levelheaded one in that hearing? >> when you make jim jordan uncomfortable, you've done something special. matt gaetz is a special kind of stupid. let's not lie. he is a nebo baby who's lived off of his father's wealth for his entire career pick of this anyone in congress who does not deserve to be there, it is by definition matt gaetz. what he is doing now is purely trying to appeal to the trump face because he wants to run for governor of florida. rick knows this. matt gaetz is positioning himself for the next thing and that likely think will be governor of florida. kissing the ring of trump and his acolytes is likely going to put him in a position where he can be the next desantis, only better on tv and sharper. he is someone who i despised at my very level. but also think democrats should be worried about extreme if bragg testifies on july 12 as currently planned, it will come after the sentencing, scheduled for july 11. what do you think republicans are hoping to accomplish with that testimony? what will they use that testimony for accept continuing the clown show? >> they will go after bragg and the comments he made when running for office. they will try to get answers about discovery. it's going to be trying to nitpick and, really, lie about what bragg has done and what he said. it will be tuned just for the right wing cloud, just for trump. nothing factual about it or nothing honest. it's going to be a crap show. i can't say what i would really call it. it's going to be a mess. it's going to be at circus. aiming at the turning point usa rally, gaetz had this to say. >> but i remember how i felt during the trump presidency, how we all felt. a nation of full hearts, big dreams and endless ambition to win. winning so much we get tired of it. >> [ laughter ]. i mean does >> -- 1000 seats since the beginning of the trump arabic when you go at this date legislative level that they have lost over 1000 seats but they got tired of winning about 15 seconds after trump got into office because they kept losing and donald trump lost in 2020. matthew is trying. right now this is preparatory. he wants to be a celebrity. he wants to drag that celebrity into the governor's race. he's planning to primary casey desantis, ron zweifel run for governor. he's planning to be in there and be the showman and stage himself to be an inheritor to trump when trump finally shuffles off his moral coil to the delight of billions. the thing a turning point today , tired of winning? get out of here. this is a country where an million people were dying because of donald trump. we have refrigerator trucks full of dead bodies on the street because of donald trump. the clown show despised by the rest of the free world because of donald trump. there's no winning involved in trump's administration but that's an illusion that matt is playing to a crowd of people who are too slow to understand the realities around us? >> not only did they lose in the bigger picture of life as you outlined but they lost every election since 2016. 2018. 2020 and 2022. the midterms that were supposed to be a red wave that never materialize and across state legislators. today in detroit at this rally, trump won the presidency in 2016 on the strength of winning the state of michigan and pennsylvania and wisconsin they are obviously making a strong play to try to win michigan again. do they have a chance in that state? >> absolutely. what we are seeing in israel and gaza is going to weaken dearborn in terms of democratic support and something the president will have to focus on and why you saw him go back repeatedly and why you see donald trump there pick at the end of the day donald trump and his white supremacist as supporters will have a hard time winning over support in michigan pick winning over african american support in pennsylvania because they are racists. we don't have to pretend. they are racist they don't like brown people are black people but they don't want us to be part of this country. in november when we come to the polls we will show them just how much of a part of this country we are >> and the risk of people not voting for trump and people sitting out the election and ultimately giving trump that edge. that cannot happen. we cannot allow that to happen. gentlemen, appreciate your insights, as always. thank you. next the supreme court decision on bump stocks is a slap in the face to families torn apart by the 2017 massacre in vegas. the nevada attorney general is with us next. but i'm staying focused. and doing more to prevent recurrence. verzenio is specifically for hr-positive, her2-negative, node-positive early breast cancer with a high chance of returning, as determined by your doctor when added to hormone therapy. verzenio reduces the risk of recurrence versus hormone therapy alone. diarrhea is common, may be severe, or cause dehydration 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possession of bump stocks arguing the devices converted otherwise legal semi automatic guns into a legal machine guns where weapons or war. the band was deemed unlawful friday in a 6-3 decision. the conservative majority ruled that a firearm equipped with a bump stock does not meet the definition of a machine gun under federal law. in a blistering dissent, justice sonia sotomayor hit back at her conservative colleague logic writing when i see a bird that walks like a duck and swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, i call that bird a.. joining me now is the nevada democratic attorney general. it's great to see you again and thank you for coming back on the show. nevadans saw firsthand more than anyone else in this country in a matter of minutes the damage that bump stocks can and do inflict now that you have had a day to process the supreme court decision, walk me through what you think, what you concluded about the decision of what it means for this country going forward? >> thank you again for having me on. and as you were talking about in our conversation, i can never shake my head wondering about what we experienced. i went to bed early on september 30 and woke up october 1st to what seemed like hundreds of direct messages or text messages checking on our city. i did not know what had happened. found that very soon what happened. i was so happy and proud that our city and state came together, and our country came together to surround us with love and vegas is strong and stronger because of that. standing bump stocks was something we very much welcome to. we have bans it in the state legislature. when donald trump, of all people at the federal little band it, we welcomed it. but we wake up now and see the supreme court has undone that act. we are quite concerned and we are dismayed and review it as an affront to those victims, those who were killed and those who were maimed and the families affected on that october 1 shooting. we think at the end of the date the dissent is correct in this regard and dismayed but not deterred. we will push back against this. >> but the make of the way the supreme court tried to basically undermine the definition of a machine gun but they're focused on what a machine gun is and not what a machine gun does pick a semi automatic weapon with bump stocks does what it machine gun does come even if it's not called as such and here's the supreme court trying to say it doesn't matter what it actually does. what matters is what you call it? >> it's interesting because i viewed that as justice thomas either trying to avoid a particular conclusion our reach a particular conclusion and he has drawn distinctions that make the difference because you have indicated, the outcome of october 1 demonstrated what a machine gun will do whether you want to call it a machine gun or not. there is no material distinction between a bump stock is equipped semi automatic rifle and automatic rifle pick look at the dissent and she details into the display what happens when the city automatic rifle is fired by regular person. you can shoot 60 rounds per minute, approximately. the one in ar-15 a shot, and automatic weapon, that is 180 rounds per minute. compare that one a bump stock is included and an automatic rifle can fire between 700 and 950 rounds per minute. a semi automatic that is a bump stock and fire between 400 and 800 rounds per minute with a single pull the trigger. but you can see here is a semi automatic rifle with a bump stock is tantamount to almost the same as and is, in fact, an automatic machine gun that we should be banding and bump stocks were banned appropriately in my view. >> if the supreme court can overrule the atf on something like this, what does the future of gun control even look like? did the court with opinions like justice thomas change the game for regulating firearms? is this soul fix in congress? >> let me be clear about something. this was not a second amendment case so i don't want people to start confusing this as a second amendment case. it is administrative law case the supreme court telling the atf they did not have the authority to do something and telling congress they need to do it or don't do it as necessarily undermining our ability to institute commonsense gun legislation. but i do see it as a continued attack on the administrative state with the supreme court attempted to undermine the ability of the epa or atf from being able to carry out the direct from congress. congress was clear when i told the atf that we are defining machine guns as broadly as possible because we know there are ways to arrive at this conclusion and justice thomas is undermined the ability to delegate the authority, which is something they've been trying to do for a long time experiment of follow-up. is congress the soul fix there and if so what can be done given how the gun lobby has such a grip on lawmakers? >> i do think congress is the soul fix of the federal level but in about a bump stocks remain illegal but we made them illegal in 2019 at the next legislative session and i commend them for doing that and the governor for signing up at the federal level i'm proud of our congresswoman has been the champion for trying to -- at a bipartisan level, some legislation that will then stocks at the federal level and i hope the resume that and pursue that and get it passed and sent to president biden who i'm competent with sign. >> quickly, do you think this will have a political effect on the elections in november? we seem supreme court decision such as the overturning of roe versus wade mobilize people at the ballot box and state races. it may have a huge impact come november. do you see this decision having a similar effect in your state when it comes to gun reform? >> absolutely. there is no way a bump stock ban that is linked to a gun that killed 58 people in our state and maimed hundreds of individuals that this decision won't have an impact on the conversation and our state around the elections and politics and you will see an up swell of conversation around that and activity around that. the answer is yes? >> the nevada attorney general. always a pleasure. thank you for your time and insights. >> thank you. next reason crackdowns on dissent over the war in gaza that any democracy should be worried about. i also have a non-profit. but no matter what business i'm in... my network and my tech need to keep up. thank you verizon business. 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all the more troubling. this is the professor, an israeli citizen of palestinian descent in is really police custody on april 19. according to her lawyer who spoke to the guardian, the 63 rhodes scholar was strip- searched, handcuffed and denied access to food, water and medication for several hours she was held in a cold cell without adequate clothing or banquettes. she told the newspaper that the officer that strip-searched are also accused her of being part of hamas and told her to burn and die. suppose a crime, she appeared on a podcast hosted by three american scholars and spoke about israeli human rights violations she gave you full throated denunciation of sexual violence in conflict with a committed by israel or the palestinians and talked about allegations of sexual violence committed by hamas on october 7 be used to justify violence in gaza. and for that, for speaking up, is really police charged with suspicion of severe incitement against the state of israel for statements made against zionism and claims that israel is currently committing genocide in gaza. the professor is now under investigation for incitement to terrorism him a crime punishable by up to five years in prison. persecution comes in the context of a larger crackdown on both academic staff and students in the weeks after october 7, well over 100 palestinian students inside israel, 80% of the women, face disciplinary action for private social media posts that expressed empathy with palestinians suffering in gaza according to an analysis by the new york review of books. now the national union of israeli students has proposed a new law that would require israel universities to fire all academics who expressed dissent, including tenured poll is -- professors part two israeli scholars of fascism wrote that with this proposal israel is, quote, hurtling toward fascism at breakneck speed. meanwhile on the west bank, the well-known palestinian human rights activist is also in the news this week. he has drawn international media attention as a leader of the nonviolent grassroots group in the occupied palestinian town. his daughter has also followed in his footsteps and is gone viral for her protests. they have both regularly faced harassment, intimidation and arbitrary detention by israeli authorities relating protests against israeli settlements in the israeli occupation of the west bank. this photo is him on sunday looking frail and sickly. you just been released from an israeli prison where he had been held for over eight months under administrative detention without charge or trial for what the idf vaguely called security activity. the israel prison service defended the conditions in which they held him after this shocking photo of him went public. this should be extremely alarming to anyone. a government that america funds and supports and one that america holds up as a beacon of light in a so-called democracy. the only democracy in the middle east. throwing professors in jail and detaining political activists without charge or trial, all in an effort to crack down on dissent america certainly knows how to callout this kind of behavior. russia's crackdown on dissent is regularly and rightfully exposed by american institutions and when courageous russian dissidents were brave ukrainians speak out against the russian government, they are seen and celebrated as heroes in this country. when russian opposition leader aleksei novotny died in prison this year, it was rightfully met with outrage and widespread condemnation he was seen as a brave political prisoner who had the temerity to stand up to the brutal russian regime. the stories of these people represent yet again the double standard of outrage over russian crackdown on dissent for the ukraine war versus the is really crackdown on dissent over the gaza war. american institutions that champion free speech and free expression and had taken to championing dissident russians are notably silent when it comes to palestinians but it even gets worse. not only are some americans not calling out these fascistic acts in israel, they are getting in on the action themselves. we may not be hurtling toward fascism at breakneck speed as the israeli protesters went earlier, but we do appear to be dabbling in it this week the university of minnesota pause the hiring of one doctor to head the school center for holocaust and genocide studies. dr. siegel, he was jewish and israeli, has made it his life's work to study genocide, including the holocaust. he is an expert yet he now finds his job in jeopardy due to this piece that he wrote in october in which he argued that israel's stated intention in gaza was to commit genocide. when we come back, dr. siegel will join me. if you have chronic kidney disease you can reduce the risk of kidney failure with farxiga. because there are places you'd like to be. farxiga can cause serious side effects, including ketoacidosis that may be fatal, dehydration, 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or unusual bruising. it may increase your bleeding risk if you take certain medicines. tell your doctor about all planned medical or dental procedures. the number one cardiologist-prescribed blood thinner. ask your doctor about eliquis. centrum! it's scientifically formulated to help you take charge of your health. centrum gives every body a healthy foundation. supporting your - oops - energy, immunity and metabolism. and yours too! you did it! plus try centrum silver, now clinically proven to support memory in older adults. as i mentioned before the break, there's been a major crackdown on dissent in israel and the crackdown here in america. dr. siegel is an associate professor of the holocaust and genocide studies and an atomic professor, an adult professor in the study of modern genocide at stockton university and offered the job of director of the center for holocaust and genocide studies at the university of minnesota, but that offer hangs in the balance as board members of the school have objected due to his contention that israel is committing genocide in gaza. i spoke with dr. siegel earlier today. >> dr., we get into her story in a moment, but before the break, we detailed the story of what is happened in israel to a palestinian professor. in april you are one of 120 academics from around the world who signed a letter condemning israel's arrest of her. did you ever think that you would see such a renowned professor who holds both u.s. and israeli citizenship arrested, strip-searched and facing charges like this in israel? >> no. i think this is an unprecedented development and an incredibly dangerous development and it speaks to two things. one, of course, they silencing and intimidation in the is really academic world. and we know, by the way, thanks to a terrific new book, an israeli scholar, about the long history, decades, of complicity of the is really academic world and is really mass violence, oppression and occupation. and this has since october intensified and this includes intimidation and silencing within the academic world, and especially against palestinians . palestinian citizens of israel , in this case. and then it speaks also to the broader persecution and discrimination and silencing and violence of palestinian citizens in israel more broadly. almost 2 million people. and it's very important to say that they are an incredibly vulnerable position. they live now in a society that is, really, very deep in genocidal discourse. in a discourse of incitement to genocide since october and is really politics and it's really media and public spaces. there is celebration of israeli genocidal violence, including in children in the public and open. this is the atmosphere and the context of the lives of palestinian citizens of israel. so what happened to the professor speaks to the broader danger in which palestinian citizens of israel now find themselves in the context of israel's genocidal assault in gaza. >> i wanted to ask you about your experience because the great irony here is that you are jewish you are israeli you are an expert and not just on the nazi hollis go -- holocaust but genocide in general. how maddening is it to you that applying your field of study to a country that you are a citizen of may be costing you this job? >> i have to say that we can talk about my argument on israel's attack on gaza as a genocide. but really, the key issue here, that indeed specifically as an israeli and jewish scholar of the jewish world and of the holocaust and genocide, the university of minnesota has decided to legitimize the campaign against me, as an israeli and as a jew, and in the process create crude interference in an absolutely regular hiring process at a public university, as a result of a pressure group, in this case the jcrc in minnesota and the dakotas. this is an issue about my identity as an israeli and a jew. the attack against me is that i am an anti-zionist the attack against me is because i critique israeli politics. the attack against me is because i critique israel's genocidal attack on gaza. so my jewish identity is not expressed as a loyalty to zionism. it is not expressed as a blind support of israel, whatever it does. and this is really the core issue here. we can talk about his religion as died in gaza, but the issue here is the university of minnesota has violated a very regular hiring procedure, as a result of external political pressure. this is an incredibly dangerous precedent. then in entering university president does something like this and this is a key point we need to discuss. >> and i want to ask you about that specific point you raised. this crude interference. do you see this as a type of anti-semitism on campus that we are not talking about? jewish scholars and jewish students are punished for being too critical of israel or being anti-zionist? >> absolutely. i think we do see this is a sort of anti-semitism. it's a very unfortunate case where, as i said, we see an attack on jews and israeli jews because of their identity and they dared to be anti-zionist. they dared to critique a violent state . the state of israel. and they dared to object to the narrowing down of jewish identity in the eyes of organizations like the jcrc of minnesota and the dakotas. the narrowing down of jewish identity only to zionism and a loyalty to israel. so this attack on other jewish identities is actually a form of anti-semitism. and we've actually seen an intensification of this anti- semitism in relation to the attack against the encampments across universities in the u.s. and elsewhere in the world. these encampments in the u.s. included many jews. and as we know . and they included shabbat prayer services and singing in hebrew and they included holiday dinners of passover seder's. and nevertheless, the encampments were attacked as anti-semitism which is patently false. but not only that we've seen a vacation of this discourse of anti-semitism by accusing the jews in the encampments as not being jews. this is a new level of intensifying this anti-semitic discourse by deciding that these jews are anti-zionist who dared to critique israel and they are not jews anymore. there is an irony here because this issue of jews deciding that other jews are not actually jews has a history in the jewish world and the history and orthodox and ultra- orthodox rabbis accusing zionist before the holocaust and world war ii of being not jews. no of course the tables have turned and the zionists accuse others of being not jews because they dared not to be. so yes we are dealing here with a form of anti-semitism. >> professor, always a pleasure. thank you for your expertise and sharing with us an abundance of intellect that we all benefit from. thank you so much. i appreciate it. >> thank you. and new our of ayman after this . sup? -who are you? i'm your inner child. get in. ♪ ♪ listen. what you really need in life is some freakin' torque. 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