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the second day in a row. we'll ask a top israeli official why the idf hit the same area again. and here at home, donald trump jr. on the witness stand at his family's fraud trial. i'm kaitlan collins, and this is "the source." moments ago, president biden called for a pause in gaza to allow for the release of more hostages. this after he was interrupted by a protester, a rabbi at a closed door fundraiser in minneapolis tonight. but his administration has been clear, saying they rule out the idea of endorsing a ceasefire, as you have seen some in the international community call for one. we'll have more on president biden's response in a moment. but all of this is coming after the first evacuations of people from gaza. more than two million people have been trapped. the conditions there have been described as nothing short of hellish. deaths continuing to climb. there is little food or water to be found. a small number of americans were among the hundreds that were allowed to leave through that rafah crossing into egypt today. president biden says that's the result of intense diplomacy, and that the white house is working, quote, nonstop to get more americans out. most civilians have remained trapped, though, as israeli ground forces have been moving in and air strikes over gaza have continued. that same refugee camp that you heard about yesterday, the jabalya camp that was hit, was hit again today, 24 hours after a large number of civilians that were killed, in addition according to the idf to a top hamas commander. this is the before and after of that area. you can see the devastation that has happened. israel claims that it struck a hamas command and control complex, and reiterates that they have been warning civilians to leave this area. this is what the idf said about hitting that camp again. >> you're referring to a second strike. i think a more correct depiction of it would be is there is ongoing fighting. we're fighting an ennay is embedded in each and every house. there is tunnels everywhere, and it's an active combat zone. it's not a refugee camp, it is a hamas stronghold. >> more on what israel is doing in a moment. wolf blitzer is live on the ground in tel aviv. i understand there is a lot of activity, some explosions we're seeing happening in gaza right now. what can you tell us? >> well, you can see the skyline over gaza. this is from our camera that's not far from gaza in sderot. you can see the lights going on. clearly the israelis are not pausing in their continuing air strikes against what they describe as major hamas sites. not only elsewhere in gaza, but including in those refugee camps, the major, the largest refugee camp where there have been two israeli air strikes over the past two days alone. the israelis are not going to pause. they're not going accept the cease-fire. they see this, as the prime minister said, a war that could potentially lead to israel's extinction, and they're going to try to do the best they can to destroy hamas, and they're going in full speed ahead. >> yeah, wolf, and you pressed the idf on this yesterday, the idea that yes, they say that hamas commanders are there, this is the command and control center. we can hear what's happening in gaza, just to let our viewers know. that's what they're looking at. that is what is happening at this moment. it is 3:00 a.m. there in gaza, and you can hear the activity. what's clear, wolf, despite the growing criticism of the civilians that are being caught in the middle of this, israel does not appear to be slowing its activity in gaza at all. >> no. they're not slowing it down at all. they're going to be moving quickly on the ground and from the air, and maybe even from the sea. they've got a mission, and they're determined to try to succeed and to eliminate hamas as a potential threat down the road to israel as a result of what happened on october 7th. they're moving. they're moving quickly, and they're not going to accept either a cease-fire or even a so-called pause. they see that as the same thing. they want to get the job done. they want the get it done as quickly as possible. if you speak to israeli officials, as i have, they're making that abundantly clear. >> yeah, and wolf, i want to pause for a moment and let everyone see what is happening in gaza, amend just listen to what we're hearing right now. >> and wolf, this is coming as what we're seeing not just these air strikes happening tonight, but also what's shifting here as we heard from a senior israeli official today in the military saying these forces are on the ground. they are approaching. they're at the gates of gaza city, he said. >> they're moving quickly on the ground. this is a major israeli military operation. remember, kaitlan, the israelis in the days immediately after october 7th, the terror attack in israel, not far from gaza, the israeli military mobilized more than 300,000 reservists, and they're now active duty. they're on the ground over there. some are already inside gaza, but many are waiting to move inside. so this is a full-scale military operation that they're engaged in. and they see this as part of their effort to destroy hamas and protect israel from any future attacks similar to the one that occurred october 7th. so they're not going stop. >> yeah, wolf blitzer on the ground in tel aviv. we'll continue to check back in with you as there are updates. with me here in studio, axios reporter brock ravid who is deeply sourced in the middle east. and what we're seeing in gaza right now, it's 3:00 a.m. there. this is kind of what's been happening every night. there is no pause happening right now. i think it's notable given what president biden said tonight at this closed door fundraiser. he was being shouted down from a rabbi calling for a cease-fire. he talked about a pause. but it's not totally dpleer that will happen, what it will look like. >> yeah. i think we need to differentiate between a cease-fire. this is basically something which is pretty long, at least a few days that might lead to a total cessation of hostilities. this is not in the cards, okay. when biden speaks about the pause, he speaks about something israel is already doing on the ground without saying it. for example, today, when the ambulances came in and took 80 wounded palestinians to egypt, and every day when the trucks are coming in, there is an unofficial pause that israel stops a lot of its military operations in southern gaza to allow that to happen. but what biden is talking about, i think what the white house is trying to achieve is at least several-hour pause in the entire gaza strip that will create some sort of conditions that will, a, allow the departure of americans from gaza, because a lots of them are still scattered around the gaza strip. >> hundreds. >> i think it's close to a thousand people. and also create a sort of atmosphere that might allow some sort of a release of hostages. i'm not sure if that's possible, but that's what the white house is looking for. >> so when he says, quote, and this is biden tonight, i'm the guy that convinced bibi, his nickname, to call for a cease-fire to let the prisoners out. i'm the guy that convinced bianna golodryga for him to open the door, you think that's what he is referencing? >> i think so. i read the transcript of this. it seems to me like biden talking off the cuff. >> he never does that. >> never. i wouldn't take every word. he uses the word prisoners when they're not the word hostage, things like that. i think again, what the white house is trying to achieve is a period of six hours, eight hours, that's a long enough period of time, again, to get americans out. not only americans, but foreign nationals. we saw a first tranche of this happening today. you can't get all those people out if you don't have a few hours of a pause. >> and what we're seeing happening on the ground as far as israel is clearly continuing to hit gaza tonight, we're looking at these live pictures right now, the israeli commander saying our forces are at the gates of gaza city. that were we're expecting it to be, that real urban warfare that we've heard so many israeli experts and former officials there say it's going to be ugly. it's going to be brutal. they've already lost 16 idf soldiers. how much more do you think they're bracing for? >> i think what we still don't see is exactly that. the ground operation, we see some pictures, short videos. but on the ground in northern gaza strip and in the center gaza strip, so from both sides, both from the north and the south, there are three armored infantry divisions of the idf. that's more than 30,000 soldiers. >> so they're surrounding it? >> they're surrounding it. it's hundreds of tanks, armored personnel vehicles. this is a huge thing. we still don't see it because the israelis are keeping it amb ambiguous for all sorts of reasons. at the gates of gaza city, they are i think either tomorrow or the next day to start getting into gaza city. and this is where things get really difficult, because this is a densely urban area. and from every house, from every corner, there can be anti-tank missiles, there could be ieds. this is very, very dangerous. >> and do you think they -- they're ready for it? they won't call it a ground invasion. >> not yet. not yet. >> they will eventually? >> i think they will. i think at a certain point, you know, when you see something and you see it's a ground invasion, it doesn't matter if you call it an invasion, if you don't call it an invasion. and this is not something that will take -- -- they're not there for a few hours. they're not there for two or three days. this is going to be a listening thing. >> brock ravid, great reporting. thank you for that. the rafah crossing that i mentioned is a spot. it's an eight-mile fence. on one side it's millions of people who are trapped in gaza tonight. on the other side is egypt's sinai desert, now the only way in for food, for water, for supplies. it's the only way out for people who do have another passport to get them to another country. and i'm joined now by a senior adviser to prime minister benjamin netanyahu and former israeli ambassador to the united kingdom, mark regev. thank you so much for being here. is israel committed to making sure that the rafah crossing stays open so these crossings can continue? >> we are indeed. and we're hopeful we'll see more people be leaving in the coming days. obviously, we're talking first and foremost about the nationals with passports -- sorry, the dual nationals who have a foreign passport. and the egyptians have established a field hospital on the egyptian side of the rafah crossing. we're hoping that people who need the hospital attention, need health care can go there too. we're hopeful that other countries will be augmenting the egyptians and we'll see further field hospitals there on the egyptian side of the crossing. >> our understanding is that americans in large part, i know there were a few who got through today, doctors, will be crossing on thursday. can you explain why that is? and that americans, most out of gaza will be allowed to leave on thursday? >> from our point of view, this should have been done weeks ago, at the very beginning of the conflict. i remember this issue was first raised by secretary blinken here on his first visit. that was just a few days after the conflict had started. so from our point of view, this was something that we wanted to happen a while ago. it okay us a while to make this happen, primarily because hamas caused a lot of problems. only because of pressure on hamas have they agreed now for the exit of the people with the foreign passports. >> israel of course was part of the negotiations as well. there were concerns when israeli air strikes and where they were hitting. but i do want to ask you, because the idf confirmed today that the jabalya refugee camp has been hit for a second time. of course, that comes after yesterday. the idf said a strike there killed a hamas commander, but we also know it killed civilians as well. why did israel strike again here? and do you know how many civilians have been killed in this area as a result of these strikes yesterday and today? >> so we know we have taken out a senior hamas commander who was directly involved in the massacre of october 7th. as you will recall, there were rapes. there were beheadings. there were people burnt alive, burnt so badly, until today, we've got 130 bodies that we can't recognize who they are. they're just ashes. and anyone who was involved, especially a commander of the operation, we have a duty to find them and to bring them to justice. and we have meted out very, very speedy justice with this individual. >> but to the question of why did israel strike a second time today, and do you have an estimate of how many civilians were killed as a result of these strikes yesterday and today? >> so i can't tell you. i know that we've hit senior hamas commanders, and we've hit many hamas terrorists. that's our goal. in the jabalya camp, subterranean, pictures are only showing what's above ground, for obvious reasons. but underneath there, you have a spiderweb of tunnels, of bunkers, of fortifications, an underground city which hamas has built over the years, stealing the cement and electricity and so forth from the people of gaza. and in building the fortifications, that's an integral part of their military machine. and we're to be destroy that military machine. if we need to they tack it again, we'll attack it again. >> okay. but you're not acknowledging how many -- i assume israel does have an estimate of how many civilians were killed. i assume you have an estimate of how many civilians are there when you make a strike. tell me if that's wrong. when you decide on striking military targets, that you say are military targets but are also where civilians are? how many civilian deaths are acceptable in an air strike if it is a military target? >> we try to keep collateral damage to a minimum. this location has been largely, not totally, but largely evacuated because we were telling people two there two weeks ago or longer that they should evacuate that area, that there will be fighting. and that whole area around gaza city, including the refugee camp, about 800,000 people have moved to the south as we requested, and more so in the last few days as the grand operation started. so we think there are still civilians in the area. we're make aggregate effort to distinguish between them and hamas. the good news is the huge civilian population that used to be there has vacated. >> do you know how many were killed? >> i can't tell you exactly because i don't know. >> what about an estimate? >> of course, the numbers that come out from the hamas-controlled ministry of health are of course high, but we don't believe them. >> so what number do you believe? >> never hit a single terrorist, we only hit civilians. that's of course mendacious. >> you don't believe their number. i obviously understand why. it's controlled by hamas that is putting out these figures. but what number -- i haven't heard a number from israel. >> we can't give you a precise number, and i don't want to give a number irresponsibly. i can say the following. most of the civilians left that location before we struck. i'm not denying there are a few there. but we've hit a primary hamas target. we've taken out a hamas leader. we've taken out many, many hamas fighters. that was the goal of our operation. and casualties, if there were civilian casualties, surely that has to be based on hamas. the geneva convention is clear. if a combatant turns a civilian area into a war zone, in other words, if he has placed his military machine inside a civilian neighborhood, he has in fact endangered the civilians, because according to the geneva convention, the additional protocol, article 13, by doing so he has made it a legitimate target. even though we have a legal right to do so, under the laws of war to attack a legitimate hamas target, we still made an effort to tell all the civilian, please vacate the location. and i'm happy to tell you that the overwhelming majority of gaza civilians in that location have in fact left. the number of civilians there is small. we don't want to hurt them. >> i will say, ambassador, a lot of them feel like they don't have places to go. certainly not safe places. as far as what israel is doing on the ground in gaza, the military said earlier today that israeli ground forces, they have advanced to the gates of gaza ci city. are israeli force inside gaza city right now? >> i can't answer that question. we're not giving those sort of operational details out publicly for obvious reasons because hamas is watching also cnn, and they want any information they can about where our forces are and what our operations are upcoming. we won't let that sort of information out, other than to say we are committed to the mission. we'll destroy hamas' military machine. we'll do everything we can to get our hostages out, and we will push this through to the end. and the end is the end of hamas ruling gaza and the destruction of the military machine. we will not allow. we simply not allow again the sort of massacre that they perpetrated against us on october 7th. never again. we'll prevent that from happening by destroying their capacity, their capability to inflict that sort of massacre on our people. >> it's very clear that israeli -- your military is saying they're on the ground there. we've seen them going into gaza in the second phase of this campaign. can you explain why israel is hesitant, or is not -- is refusing to call it a ground invasion? >> well, we've obviously got ground forces inside the gaza strip. i think what we call it is immaterial. if you want to call it invasion, you can call it what you want. but we are there on the ground to take on hamas, to defeat hamas, to end the rule of hamas in gaza. and ultimately, our objective is of course good for israel, because we're going to free the people of southern israel from this constant threat of this isis type terrorist organization. but at the same time, i ultimately believe that it's good for the people of gaza too who deserve better. for 16 years hamas has ruled gaza. and what have they brought for the people of gaza? only suffering, pain, and impoverishment. the people of gaza deserve better, surely. >> ambassador mark regev, thank you for your time tonight. >> thank you for having me. one of the americans who was lucky to make it out of gaza today, a seattle doctor, a volunteer who was making prosthetics for children in gaza is safe tonight. her nephew is here with me next. also today, here in new york, donald trump jr. was on the stand in the fraud trial that is threatening his father's business empire. what prosecutors wanted to know from him and what he told them. that's also ahead. tonight, two american doctors who were stranded in gaza have been safely evacuated into egypt. one of them is 71-year-old dr. ramona okumura, who left gaza through the rafah border crossing early this morning. she is a retired pediatric orthopedic specialist from seattle. she has been making prosthetics for children and teaching others how to make them for the last seven years as a volunteer. her nephew shared with us her last text she sent just as she was arriving into egypt. it reads, quote, love to everyone who helped me get out. pray for the people of gaza who now don't have us as shields from harm. good night. and her nephew nicholas payne joins us now. i'm so glad you're here. it must be such a relief to know that she is safe, that she is coming home and she was able to make it out. >> yeah, thank you first for having me. and i mean, there is just this weight lifted off of me. the weight has been lifted off the entire family, that every single day we've been on baited breath waiting for her next text message to make sure that she is fine, and to know that she is finally through the border and on to a safer place in cairo now is just incredibly relieving. >> and the last you heard from her was when she was on that shuttle bus? >> shuttle bus, and then we know that she arrived at a hotel in cairo. >> i imagine the contact has been so limited. coms in gaza has been disrupted, we believe disrupted tonight, disrupted several times. what was she describing what she was seeing to you and your family? >> i mean, i think what struck us the most was at times she would do these audio messages where she would just hold up her phone and we would just hear bombs going off. whether hamas rockets or israeli military missiles, just hearing it and having her explain these were rattling the window shades, it was just very terrifying. and that's on top of them having limited food, limited water, and just a lot of disease, illnesses going around. >> and she is a doctor. she is there to help people. i know she volunteered in gaza a lot. she got a little disrupted because of the pandemic. obviously you want her to be safe. i imagine it's probably difficult for her to leave given she was working with children in gaza and what we're seeing happen to those children now. >> yeah. she doesn't have any children, but in a sense she has thousands of children. i mean, i have in the past life, i've gotten to go with her to piano recitals for children that she has made prosthetics for, and that's just the type of medical specialist that she is. she doesn't want to just make a limb for a child. she wants to be part of their lives, to do what she can to help them go to school, run, play, and just be kids. because, i mean, whether that's a kid in seattle or a kid in gaza, that's a kid that just wants to grow up and be happy. >> she sounds like such a special person. we're glad that she is safe and glad that you came to join us. keep us updated when you do hear more from her. >> wonderful. thank you. >> thank you. dr. ramona okumura, we're wishing the best for her. of course, up next we'll get more on the ground in gaza, what's happening there. also tonight, the trump family begins taking the stand at the civil fraud trial that could ultimately derail the trump organization. first up was donald trump jr. what he told prosecutors, and which ofof his sibiblings willln ththat seat nenext. nice footwork. man, you're lucky, watching live sports never used to be this easy. now you can stream all your games like it's nothing. yes! [ cheers ] yeah! woho! running up and down that field looks tough. it's a pitch. get way more into what you're into when you stream on the xfinity 10g network. donald trump jr. on the witness stand in court today in the $250 million civil fraud trial that is threatening the very existence of his father's empire. donald trump jr. was pressed by prosecutors on the scope of his involvement in the company's financial statements. he's not done testifying yet, but he also is not expected to be the last of his family members to take the stand. joining me tonight, cnn legal analyst karen freeman agnifilo. i'm so glad you're here. this is day one. we got a little bit of donald trump jr. and what this looks like. he denied having involvement in these financial statements. but he did acknowledge that he had conversations with others of the company that could have played a role into that. how does that work? is that suitable for what the judge is hearing, what others in the court are hearing? >> well, first of all, the judge has to decide whether he credits what don jr. is saying. don't forget this is a man who went to wharton business school, one of the best business schools. he was the president of the company. so either he is not qualified to run and be an officer of a large institution that deals with properties and money, et cetera, or he might not be telling the truth, according to the judge, depending on what they decide. but it seems a little strange that everyone is kind of saying it's not me, it's him. it's not me, it's him. and with don jr. in particular, i think just given his educational background and his level at the company, i think it's a little bit straining to think that he wasn't more involved. >> so when he says accounting 101 in the '90s was kind of his grasp of experience with that. do you think that's something that they see as credible? >> i don't think that these are complex financial -- financial considerations that are going on here. these are pretty simple concepts. these are things like how big is the apartment? is it 30,000 square feet or 10,000 square feet? you taking into consideration the fact that there are rent controlled apartments, or are they all at full market value apartments? just common sense things that i think are things that he would know, everybody knows. everybody can understand that. either the lights are on and nobody is hope it makes no sense. >> he is not the only of the kids to be testifying. he is back on the stand tomorrow. his brother eric trump is also going to be there. ivanka trump is supposed to be there, but she is scheduling -- filing an appeal to try to get out of her testimony. what is looking at all of their testimony and donald trump himself's testimony, how does that all figure into what the result of this look likes? >> i think at a certain point, if everybody is pointing the finger at somebody else, but the buck doesn't stop anywhere, i think that's going to be one of the things that the judge who is the fact finder here, because there is no jury, right, this is a bench trial, i think that could be one of the things he decides to look at and say does this make sense. don't forget, this is a very successful business operation. donald trump tells us every day how successful he has been in business. you don't get that way without having some level of competence, i don't think. i think it will be interesting to see who can finely take responsibility for this. somebody has to, right? somebody made up these numbers, made up these figures, and valued things a certain way. and i think it will be interesting to see who the judge credits to determine who that will be. >> do you think ivanka will win her appeal? what's your sense of that? >> it's really interesting. i actually read the minutes from the hearing. and a lot of it is very technical, saying look, you didn't serve me properly. i don't live in new york, et cetera. but on the other hand, what they're saying is no, you have relevant testimony. you have businesses in new york. so if there is relevant testimony to be had and the judge finds that, i think she'll be testifying. but they did give her a chance to appeal it, which is why her testimony isn't scheduled until next wednesday. >> yeah. we'll see what ultimately happens there. donald trump jr. will be back on the stand tomorrow at 10 tomorrow mork. you'll be watching closely with the rest of us. thank you. >> thank you. of course tonight we're also following big news on capitol hill. two more republicans there have just called it quits from congress, including one who is going to be here tonight, who is not mincing words about his party on the way out. congressman ken buck i is next. the house of representatives is back in washington tonight with big problems to address. on the agenda, keeping the government open as well as helping israel and ukraine fight a pair of brutal wars. all of that, though, is immediately sidetracked by a slew of resolutions to punish other members of congress. we watched that play out on capitol hill today. my next guest, though, is republican congressman ken buck, who made his own news by announcing that he has had enough and is not running for reelection. congressman, thank you for joining me tonight. tell me what is driving your decision here. >> well, really two things, kaitlan. one, have i been here nine years and congress refuses to deal with the big issues that we need to deal with. we have not addressed the sustainability of social security and medicare. we haven't addressed the huge spending issue that we have. by the end of next year, we will have $36 trillion of debt. and that also is just unsustainable. and so we need to -- we really need to work on issues. there is no incentive structure here to do that. and then in addition to that, republicans who have answers to these issues and are at least aware of them and hopefully will work on them some day have a huge credibility problem because we continue to talk about and lie about the 2020 election as if it was stolen, as if joe biden wasn't the real winner of that election. we keep lying about january 6th and the prisoners from january 6th, the defendants who are not political prisoners but rather committed crimes. they assaulted police officers. they damaged government property. and so i don't think we can have the credibility we need with the american public if we continue the lies that we're now telling. >> when you hear those members of your own party that you're talking about in the hallways behind you who try to claim the election was stolen, or talk about political prisoners, those who from january 6th, do they say the same things privately, or are most of them saying one thing publicly and another thing privately? >> i think there is a little bit of both there. i think some of them in the back of their minds know joe biden won this election. but i voted to decertify. so now i need to figure this out. thing is a little bit of that. >> are you worried about what -- as you know and your critics on capitol hill as well, you are often a lone voice, or maybe one of very few who will criticize your own party and their priorities or lack of, as you say. are you worried about what the republican party on capitol hill look likes without a congressman ken buck in it? >> no. i think there is a lot of young new congressmen that are here that will take up that position. and i honestly believe that as we get through this election cycle, the republican party is going to start to look different. and i hope that we have moved beyond the influences that are on the party right now that talk about, you know, january 6th as an unguided tour of the capitol. i think that those things are in the past, hopefully in the past, and we'll see what the new republican party, the new republican party to me, kaitlan, looks a lot like the old republican party, the ronald reagan republican party, the party that believed in the rule of law the party that believes in the strong national defense. >> when you say you think it will look different after the election, do you mean because either republicans lose their house majority, or donald trump, if he is the nominee lose? what do you mean? >> well, i don't think donald trump will be our next president. and i don't think think that the republicans in the house will be bound to his ideology and to his priorities. and i think that will free up a lot of people to really get back to the roots of the republican party. >> senator mitt romney said something kind of similar when he announced that he was not going run for reelection. he said he thought right-wing populism would fail. we heard that from other hopeful republicans for the last several years, including when i covered the white house. what happens to your party if it doesn't, if those who are aligned so closely with donald trump and election denialism and what not succeed? >> i'm not sure if you're saying if donald trump becomes the next president of the united states, what happens? >> sure. even if he doesn't, he is still the undeniable leader of your party at this time, is he not? >> i think he is. the leader of the party at this time. i think if he does not win the presidency, then you'll see people moving on. if he does win the presidency, you're going to see another four years of much of the same, of people denying that election. i frankly think that some of his policies are stronger than president biden's policies in terms of how i see the world, but i think integrity matters, and i think the american public really is going to demand integrity of the next president. do. >> you think republicans can hold on to their house majority if their priorities are as they are right now, which you say aren't aligned with what your kind of republicans believe they should be? >> you know, i think the house and the senate are both at play. i think in the house, we've had some redistricting in different states, and i think that's going play a factor. i think who the nominee is next year is going to play a factor. so i think there are a lot of things that are in play right now. we have two major conflicts going on in the world. we also have inflation. we have other issues that are going to be driving people with pocketbook issues to the polls. and it will be interesting to see how they vote. >> congressman ken buck, who announced he is not running for reelection today. thank you so much for your time tonight. >> thank you. meanwhile, president biden in minnesota tonight addressing the suffering of palestinian civilians, in a state with a sizable muslim population amid criticism about his response to what's happening in gaza, and another election around the corner, what it could mean for that. that's next. most outspoken progressive democrats on capitol hill on the israeli airstrike, the second on the jabalia refuge camp in gaza today. this is congress boom alexandria ocasio-cortez saying she believes it is a war crime and is urging president biden to push israel to honor human rights laws. >> i believe bombing a refugee camp is a human rights violation. i believe it's a war crime. arnlts you will of this coming as president biden is facing more pressure to call for a ceasefire in gaza, something that the white house has not done. the president has not said that. he told a protester, a rabbi at a fundraiser with him tonight in minneapolis and i'm getting what president biden told this protester, is according to reporters who were in the room, i think we need a pause, a pause means give time to get the prisoners out. obviously, referring to the hostages there. but that statement is unlikely to quell the outrage we are hearing from many muslim-americans who threatened to withhold their support from biden's reelection. some muslim leaders announced today that they are done with biden. >> bwe have already abandoned biden. our message is very clear. no ceasefire, no vote in 2024. >> we are not only not voting for him, but we will campaign against him to lose the elecelection 2024. >> muslim-americans overwhelmingly backed biden's run for the white house in 2020, losing their support could mean a lot. he won minnesota by single-digit percentages saying swing states have sizable muslim populations. for more and the impact it could have, the ceo of engage, the large largest u.s. group turning out muslim american voters. i want to talk about just overall this big picture of what this means. on president biden's comments tonight that he supports a pause as his administration has said no to a ceasefire, what did you make of that? >> thank you so much for that. i think clearly the white house and the president is seeing and hearing the calls for a ceasefire. it's so much needed given the mounting death toll, over 3,400 killed. so, therefore, the white house recognizes that this really not sustainable and i think you are starting to see now the president, perhaps others, start voicing statements in that regards. secretary of state antony blinken recently supported a humanitarian pause which the administration was not supportive of a few weeks ago. i think you are seeing the public pressure working, but it may take time for them to fully embrace the reality that is needed which is an absolute ceasefire in gaza. >> would you be okay if there was just a humanitarian pause and not a full-on ceasefire, or do you believe that could turn into a ceasefire. >> you know, at the end of the day people may call it different things. it's important if there is a cessation of hostilities, suspending the bomb ins of civilians, homes, schools, hospitals and killing children, right. if that can happen, i really don't care what you call it as long as it happens. u.n. agencies, the u.n. high commissioner for human rights said that the bombing of jabalia, which killed perhaps as many as 400 civilians, may be considered war crimes. this is a serious matter, particularly because these are u.s. ips weapons at play here. i worked for the state department for ten years. i worked on the counter-isis campaign, the syria conflict. we are seeing actions that perhaps vladimir putin in ukraine or assad in syria would do. not an ally of the united states. certainly should not be conducted with u.s. material and diplomatic support. >> that's -- i just want to note given the comment you just made, you were at the white house. they had a meeting with muslim american leaders in recent days. i mean, given what you just said, and the gravity that you believe of what has happened here, did you get a sense from your view that you believe president biden understood that? >> so, it really we went into the white house with heavy hearts. the community devastated. it is being targeted, attacked here in the u.s. none who is daring to mention palestinian rights is being docs, intimidated on campuses. we had a young palestinian boy murdered in illinois, a palestinian american boy, 6 years old. we went in a heavy heart with a clear message to the president, respectfully, the american muslim community, arab community and any percent of democrats are supporting a ceasefire in gaza. 56% of republicans according to recent polling, we said, look, the american public does not need escalation in the middle east. we do not need another war in the middle east. we need a ceasefire to allow for civilians to be treated, to be attended to, and also really what we feed is a more sustainable solution to the conflict. there is no political -- there is no military solution to this conflict. only a political one. >> as you know, obviously, president biden is running for re-election. you heard others saying if there is no ceasefire, they are not going to vote for him. if the race was tomorrow, it looks like he would be running against former president trump, who, obviously, has called for a muslim ban. are you worried that if the muslim american community doesn't support president biden, sits on the sideline, that it could help elect someone who wants to have a muslim ban in place? >> i am worried about a lot of things right now, including that possibility. of course. donald trump was horrible not just to the muslim community. he was horrible to america and american democracy, which is why in 2020, 85% of muslim-americans according to data voted for joe biden and kamala harris. we are proud of that decision because it was the right decision at that moment. what we are seeing right now is not just greatly disappointing, but outright horrifying that the administration that we helped turn out the vote for is refusing to call for a ceasefire. now, we understand fully well who bibi netanyahu is and that bibi netanyahu, who is leading the most far-right government in israeli history, may not listen to the u.s. at least we got to tell him and in a way stand for the values that this administration has campaigned on. so i am concerned, but right now the community is in great pain. they don't want to think about the election despite some promises. i think they fully understand what's at stake and our organization will ensure that the muslim community and allies do vote, which is very important. the question is for whom and why. and that remains to be determined. >> it's very important perspective. i am really glad that you joined me to share that with us tonight. thank you for being here. >> thank you. ahead, indicted republican congressman george santos has just survived a push from within his own party to push him out of congress. it's more complicated than that though and doesn't mean that it's over. we'll ex plaun what happened today next. is it possible my network could take my business to the next level? it is with comcast business. powering all your devices with gig-speed wifi. and you get fast downloads and uploads. pick it up! pick it up! oh we got this! because it's powered by the next generation 10g network. more speed for your business? it's not just possible. it's happening. get started for $59.99 a month for 12 months. plus, ask how to get an $800 prepaid card with a qualifying internet bundle. comcast business, powering possibilities. spare embattled republican congressman and serial liar george santos. a republican-led resolution failed to expel him from congress tonight. of course, he facing 23 federal charges, including wire fraud and identihe

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