>> that supports what lee said. there needs to be more oversight and more accountability. mr. chairman, my time is expired. these points are very clear to all of us today in this hearing room. i yelled back. >> i now recognize mr. garcia -- he left. i now recognize miss green from georgia for 5 minutes of questions. >> thank you, mr. chairman. mr. fauci, you were quoted saying, it is easy to criticize, but they are really criticizing science, because i represent science. do you represent science, mr. fauci? >> i am a scientist that uses the scientific method to gain information. >> you said you represent science. do you represent science, yes or no? >> that's not a "y a "yes" or "" >> it's a "yes" or "no." we will take that is you don't know what you represent. this is director of the nih, you did sign off on these so-called scientific experiments. i want to tell you, this is disgusting. and evil. what you signed off on in these experiments that happened to beagles, paid for by the american taxpayer. i want you to note that americans don't pay their taxes for animals to be tortured like this. that type of science that you are representing, mr. fauci, is abhorrent, and it needs to stop. mr. fauci, you also represent the type of science where you confess that you made up the covid rules. including 6 feet social distancing and masking out children. >> i never said i made anything up. >> you made it up as he went. you saying this is big news? >> i didn't say that i made anything up. >> what did you say? >> i said it is ba not based in science and it appeared. what do dogs have anything to do what we are talking about today? >> these are scientific experiments. this is what you signed off on. you told the american people they had to distance by 6 feet. they had to wear masks. let's also talk a little bit further about the type of science that you represent. the four scientists made $710 million in royalties from drugmakers. a fact that has been hidden. as talk about the fact -- is it right for scientists and doctors getting paid by the american people, government taxpayer paychecks to get patents where they are paid millions of hundreds of millions of dollars in royalty fees? especially when the nih in these government agencies, most powerful agencies in our country are recommending medical suggestions and advice and making up guidelines like 6 feet distancing and masking out children? you think that is appropriate? do the american people deserve to be abused like that? mr. faucher? i don't need your answer. i want to talk about this right here. >> objection. >> i reclaim my time. >> mr. chairman, in terms of the rules of decorum, are we allowed to deny that a doctor is a doctor just because we don't want him to be a doctor? >> yes, because in my time, that man does not deserve to have a license. as a matter of fact and it should be revoked. he belongs in prison. >> the young lady should recognize that doctor is doctor. >> thank you. >> is this what we have a calm? is this what we have devolved into? no decorum. >> we can do that hearing about the poor men that were injected with syphilis. i support you in that. that is horrific. and this government like that two americans doesn't have decorum to the american people. >> the gentleman is out of or order. recognize the point of order. go ahead with your point of order. >> i was going to say -- completely unacceptable to deny dr. fauci who is here a respected member of the medical community his title. that is actually a personal attack on his character. >> he is not respected. >> i have instructed her to address him as doctor. >> i am not addressing him as doctor. let's talk about this. i am reclaiming my time. i am reclaiming my time. i am reclaiming my time. >> point of order. >> a member can only move -- the issues we are debating are important ones that members feel deeply about. vigorous disagreement as part of the legislative process. as i said, the members are reminded that we must adhere to established standards of decorum and debate. this is a reminder that it is a violation of house rules and the rules of this committee to engage in personalities regarding other members or to question the motives of a colleague. remarks of that type are not permitted by the rules and they're not in keeping with the best traditions. the chairman will enforce decorum at all time and reminds all members to be mindful of their remarks. does the gentleman from california have anything fur further? >> we should take her words d down. >> i offered that her words be taken down. >> point of order. >> mr. chairman, i would like to make a point of order. they accused us of worshiping president trump. >> young lady will suspend. >> mr. griffin, you have a point of order. >> mr. chairman, while it may not be polite, i believe the rule only applies to members of this body, the senate, and the president of the united states. i do not believe that it applies -- the rule that i am taking down good words does not apply to a witness. again, i am not condoning the words. i am just asking whether or not it applies to individuals who are just happened to be here in front of us. >> the chair overrules the point of order. the gentleman from maryland ask that members please afford other members the respect they are entitled and refrain from using rhetoric that could be construed as an attack on the motives or character of another member or the witness. you may proceed. >> thank you. this was a time in history where you got to throw out the first pitch at the washington nationals baseball game while americans were forced to stay home and watch such events that they love from at home alone on their televisions. what hypocrisy this picture shows. here you are without your mask, with empty seats everywhere. remember the cardboard cutout fans. that was one of the most insulting things to americans having to watch the games from home where you got to go and enjoy the game and sit right next to people not following the 6 feet of distancing, not wearing your mask, and everyone else was forced to stay home and stop enjoying life. your science here, your science is displayed perfectly in this picture. where children in school were put in plastic bubbles. because of your science. your repulsive, evil science. let's go back to your very own email. you said you don't use email. you do. right here. this is your own email. you said the typical mask you buy and the drugstore was not really effective in keeping out virus. i do not recommend that you wear a mask. this is your email. this is your own words. children, children, all over america were forced to wear masks. healthy children forced to wear masks, muzzled in their schools. they were forced to learn from home because of your so-called science and your medical suggestions. while you and all your cronies get paid from big pharma. but this committee should be doing, we should be recommending you to be prosecuted. we should be writing a criminal referral. you should be prosecuted for crimes against humanity. you belong in prison, dr. fauci. >> mr. chairman, i have another point of order. >> i just want to make sure the record is clear. dr. fauci testified that he did not use his personal email for official business. he did not say, he did not use email. i think today, this particular has been full of lies and disregard and disrespect. we need to stick to facts >> thank you. the time had expired before the point of order. i now recognize mr. garcia from california for 5 minutes of questions. >> dr. fauci, i am sorry you had to sit through that. i was completely irresponsible. this might be the most insane hearing i've only attended. i've only been in congress for 1.5 years. i am so sorry you are subjected to the level of attacks and insanity. your "so-called science" that the gentlewoman referred to save millions of lives in this country and around the world. i want to thank you for that. i also think it is important to note that it is my opinion that you are an american hero. your team has done more to save lives, then all 435 members of this body on both sides of the you guys have worked not just during this pandemic that over time to save millions of lives in this country and across the world. we lost 1.1 million american lives. 1.1 million american lives. 7 million lives around the wo world. we were having 9/11-like death advance daily in this country losing 4000-5000 people every day. i was married during that time of the pandemic and remember how painful it was too close businesses and shutdown schools. how quickly we forget the pain and how scared we were as a country. we were washing our groceries as we were coming in. we were keeping seniors at a distance. the tragedy that was happening in our nursing homes. thousands of people were dying a day. you and your team are the best and brightest scientists in this country in the world doing everything that you could and working night and day to save more and more of those lives. a lot of my colleagues know that my mom was a health care worker during the pandemic. my mom died of covid. my stepfather died of covid. i lost both of my parents during the pandemic. i think is very personally and other members of this body who are tasked to be responsible and healthy american people attack medical professionals like you and across the world. a vaccine that you and your team health foster has saved millions of american lives. these are ridiculous. even before this committee started. i wanted to point a few things out. this same member that went on this rant introduced the fire fauci act and promoted on a podcast saying that covid was a bioweapon. that is how insane some of these comments are. this is a quote from the same member. "i don't believe in evolution. these viruses were not making people sick until they created them. for they weaponized viruses to attach to ourselves and make us sick. it's a bioweapon." they are attacking you and our medical community for actually creating covid that has caused the deaths of millions. we know that these extreme comments are targeting public health officials across the country. i also want to show you this other comment. the same member. this being unfunded wuhan lab created the virus." this is so crazy and irresponsible. the same member of this committee and accusing him of a global conspiracy to create covid on purpose just to make people get vaccines. that you had done this, sir. the same member routinely promotes misinformation about vaccines and actually has encouraged the routine prevention of tax filings and eliminate diseases like the measles. dr. fauci, you brought together our nation in the world's best and brightest scientists take on covid and created a vaccine that works. i want to ask you a question and be crystal clear for the public. you brought together little world and america's best scientists. do you believe that the vaccine that you all helped create and ensure it is safe and effective for the public. >> yes, and its track record has proven that. >> do you also agree that in saved hundreds of thousands and possibly millions of lives in america and across the world? >> that is absolutely correct. it is a very clear that it saved millions of lives here and throughout the world. the europeans have done the same studies that we have. the data are incontrovertible that they save lives. >> do you think the american public should listen to america's brightest and best doctors and scientists, or instead listen to podcast goose, conspiracy theorists, and unhinged facebook memes? >> listening to people who you just described is going to do nothing but harm people, because they will deprive themselves of life-saving interventions, which is happened. you know, some have done stu studies. peter haute is has done an analysis of this and people whoo get vaccinated for any of a variety of reasons probably are responsible for an additional 2-300000 deaths in this country. >> thank you for your entire team for saving lives in this country. i yelled back >> mr. chairman, could you have her removed? >> i asked the capitol police to escort. >> she can be removed. you can be removed. you are not allowed to speak. take your starbucks with you. >> you are out of line. your time has expired. i recognized dr. jackson from texas for 5 minutes of questions. >> thank you, mr. chairman. dr. fauci, i had to say, i and so many americans i'm deeply disappointed in your actions while you were in key leadership roles as the director of the national institute of allergy and infectious disease and as the chief medical advisor to president biden. you failed miserably in my opinion. based on all we have learned during the pandemic and all that we have learned through this committee's work, i believe that your failures stem from an effort of self-preservation, manifested by a series of lies and cover up and buy a total failure leadership. it was obvious to everyone that you and your organization had a lot to lose if the american people were to discover that covid-19 was leaked from a lab in wuhan, china, and that you found the alliance actually funded this research and that this lab was actively and recklessly conducting gain-of-function research. as such, you did everything in your power to deflect and cover up this possibility and recruited others to help you in this effort. unfortunately, this cost our country in the world valuable time that may have led to answers regarding the origin and blunted the spread and almost certainly save lives. i think most of us have known all along what i just described when i have been appalled to discover through sworn testimony to this committee is the level of which even those that work for you went to cover-up the obvious. just a few examples. they are important for everyone to hear. former acting director of nih testified under the jerry narron definition that nih did in fact funny gain-of-function research. this was based on a definition that was initially used by nih and a definition that was abandoned and removed from the website in october of 2021 and replaced by a new much more detailed definition with a much higher bar that you have since conveniently used to define gain of function testing and to deny what the doctor has confirmed. he also said that eco-health alliance has failed to properly report that their research violated the terms of the grant. something that went completely unaddressed under your watch. you're a senior advisor who you have tried today to distance yourself from but whose large volume of emails clearly demonstrate that you had a very close and personal relationship with and reported to you directly has openly bragged about how he subverted foia's requests. i remind you that the law requires you and your former organization to comply with freedom of information request. it is not optional. if your organization that you oversaw were systemically avoiding transparency and illegally hiding or destroying documents than rightfully belong to the american people, then you should be criminally charged and they should as well. in addition, your chief of staff also engaged in the practices in which he crafted messages using symbols instead of letters to avoid foia exposure. in an email 2027 he says, "there are things i can say." i am wondering what he couldn't say. he also went on to say, "except tony is aware at, and i have learned that there is ongoing efforts within nih to steer through this with minimal damage to you and colleagues and to nih and naiad." a few days later, he said "i have reason to believe that there are already efforts going on to protect you." in february of 2021, he rode to boston university scientists saying, "i learned from our foia lady how to make emails disappear but before the search starts. i think we are all safe." dr. fauci, i want to know what you are being protected from and what you need to be safe from good i'm gonna go on because i have a little time here. "i deleted most of the earlier emails after sending to gmail. once again, illegal and an actual crime. "i learned of the tricks last year from an old friend who heads our foia office and also hates foias" it is amazing to me that they still have jobs and taxpayers are paying their salaries. in april of 2021, "ps, i forgot to say there's no worry about foia. i can send stuff to tony on his private email or at his house. he's too smart to let colleagues and him stuff that could cause trouble." apparently you failed to surround yourself with equally smart individuals. "in june 2021, and baylor college of medicine that he had deleted all his emails related to covid origin when "it hit the fan." delete all emails when you learn the subject is pretty sensitive. in october 2021, "peter from tony's recent comments to me and what francis has been vocal about over the past 5 years, we are trying to protect you and protecting their own reputations as well." i will just jump ahead. the american people can rest assured that they will continue to pursue answers in pursue full accountability despite continuing efforts to cover this up. history will not be kind to you and you will be known as the man who put his personal interest before the american people. the very people that you are supposed to be protecting. your actions we have had before this committee have completely eroded our health system and the agency representative for half a century. >> the gentleman's time has expired. 5 minutes of questions. >> thank you. i hope i will have an additional 30 seconds like the previous element. >> i have allowed that today in several locations. >> dr. fauci, you deserve better than this. the other side suddenly cares about puppies versus the millions of people that you have kept safe and alive over your lifelong commitment to public health. i would like to use my time to dispel some of the myths about you that have circulated in right-wing circles. we can all acknowledge that suspension of in-person activities during the early days of covid was necessary to save lives and to stop the spread. it was not without its challenges. it was difficult particularly for our nation's students and business owners. but to completely clean these policies on you, dr. fauci, is ridiculous. the decision to suspend interest in learning, dining them and other activities was not a decision that you were somehow solely responsible for, including in your role as a naiad directory. is that correct? these decisions were made at the state and local level in communities across the country like my home state of hawaii which was particularly aggressive. in part as a response to the failure to contain the outbreak of the virus. is that not correct? >> i'm sorry. ma'am, i am not really hearing you very well. could you -- >> to be clear with the decisions were made at the state and local levels in communities across the country. >> that is correct. >> thank you. i would like to shift topics for suppressing opposing viewpoints about the pandemic response. over the past 15 months, the majority of the members of the subcommittee have levied the allegation of federal health officials answered proposals like the great american declaration which are inconsistent with the overwhelming consensus of the scientific and medical community. much attention has been paid to an email dr. francis collins and she regarded the decoration where he called for a quick and devastating published takedown of its premises. to be clear, this was not dr. collins suggesting that you suggest or censor at the declaration. he was suggesting that the points you just explained, memorialized to refute the scientific premises of the great barrington declaration. is that correct? >> yes. >> there is good reason for dr. collins to have substantive concerns. lifting mitigation measures for the vast majority of society and perverting them from populations including the elderly and people with underlying health conditions. this was months before a vaccination was available in public health systems were being overwhelmed. thousands of americans were dying daily. doctors fauci, what percentage of the population needed to be infected with covid before we achieved herd immunity? >> herd immunity was very loose with covid. the great barrington declaration was flawed both conceptually and in practice. conceptually it's that shield vulnerable people. as if the only vulnerable people are those in nursing homes. we have tens and tens of millions of vulnerable people that you couldn't possibly shield. people with underlying conditions, the elderly, those would be the individuals. conceptually impossible to do that. herd immunity as we know means, if you have a virus that doesn't change and a virus in which you get infected or vaccinated, you have highly durable and perhaps lifelong immunity. that is not the case with covid. we know immunity wanes, and we have multiple variants. in practical purposes, the great barrington declaration was invalid both conceptually, and practically. >> thank you, dr. fauci. answered a few of my other questions. for many of us that live in multigenerational communities, thousands -- hundreds of thousands and millions of more lives would have been impacted by this so-called approach and given the fact that the virus rabbit evolution that we have seen since 2020, herd immunity approaches would be absolutely ineffective against a 19. if you would answer one more question, considering the mortality is rates, how many deaths when we have seen bri briefly? >> if we had let it rip, they're very likely would have been another million people would have died i would imagine. >> thank you, dr. fauci. it's not the -- rather it was about protecting and saving millions of american lives. the covid-19 pandemic wasn't some academic exercise. it was real time about saving lives in real time. theories like. immunity is based upon the assumption that enough people would have to be infected. that would likely have meant that our family members, our friends, our neighbors, our constituents, especially those that are most marginalized multigenerational rule communities would have died. thank you, dr. fauci. i want to thank you and not blame you for your science. thank you for your science that have saved millions of american lives and kept us safe including my chilean and many of our families right here. thank you for clarifying these points for the record during the pandemic and so many other health crises we have faced over the decades that you have served. i yield back. >> i recognize 5 minutes of questions. >> thank you. chairman. it has been insinuated that politicians, only politicians and bloggers and conspiracy theorists are disagreeing with you. i want to point out that i am the only member of congress that actually treated patients from the very beginning. the very end of the pandemic during night shifts in the e.r. thousands of patients during that time. in 2020, i was censored. my medical license was threatened, because i disagreed with bureaucrats. literally taken off the internet as a person he was treating patients with leading edge technologies, developing theories. doing my very best. being censored by the united states government. for the first time, stepping in and taking the place of medical professionals as the experts in health care. any dissent surrounding covid-19 treatments, last mandates and any public policies surrounding the pandemic was immediately labeled as antiscience. i watched this public health officials what treatment options were best for them regardless of their como abilities are medical history. despite my education in my training in my experience, my opinions were relegated to conspiracy. misinformation by so-called health care experience. who had never treated a patient throughout the entire pandemic. this has been a black eye on medicine and is highlighted by government should never, never inserts itself in between patients and their health care providers. the american people deserve to make medical decisions through conversations with their physicians, rather than politically motivated mandates. dr. fauci, did you treat a patient for covid during the pandemic? >> i was part of a team -- we didn't take care of many of t them. >> not hands-on. thank you. why would i be criticized by a bureaucrat for doing my very best -- this is a rhetorical question. but why? why would the government who has never treated a patient for covid -- you can read all the things you want. you are not watching people die. intimating patients right there. with that disease in watching it happen. watching the development of this disease and learning from it. i'm being told by bureaucrats what is right and wrong. everything i was censored on, i was proven to be right. pretty crazy, isn't it. you said in an interview, you gave as part of an audiobook written by michael specter, that you believed in institutional zoo make it hard for people to live their lives so they feel pressured to get vaccinated. could we run the audio for scott lashley's? >> i have to say zach i don't see have a solution other than some sort of mandatory vaccinations. going to use that term. >> once people feel empowered and protected legally, you are going to have schools, universities, and colleges are going to say, you want to come to this college, buddy, you are to get vaccinated. lady, you're going to get vaccinated. big corporations like amazon and facebook and all those others are going to say, you want to work for us? get vaccinated. it has been proven that when you make it difficult for people in their lives, they lose their ideological stash and get vaccinated. >> thank you. are all objections to go vaccinations ideological b.s.? dr. fauci? >> they are not. that is not what i was referring to. >> and reference for making it hard for people to get education and traveling and working, i would say it very much was in context. i take great offense to this. miss allison williams testified about this committee about losing her job. she saw an exemption which came from recommendations from your graphics check us out. she and her husbands were actively working with a fertility expert in position. on how to get pregnant and agreed with the premise that she was young and healthy and wanted to get pregnant and shouldn't get the vaccination for medical purposes. but she was fired. because you made it hard. just like you said in your statement. you didn't want to make sure that the ideological b.s. not in the way of her working, living her life are making a medical decision with her health care professional. i think americans take great offense to this. that is exactly what you meant when you said making it hard for people to live without getting a vaccination. you have affected people's ability to work and travel and be educated. you actually flourished in american society peer to self determine as are all given -- god-given rights. shame on you. dr. fauci, you have become doctor fear. americans do not hate science. i don't hate science. the american people hate having their freedoms taken from them. you inspired and created peer through mass mandates and school closures and vaccine mandates. they have destroyed the american people's trust in our public health institutions. this fear you created will continue to have ripple effects over generations to come and you have already seen its effects in education and the economy and everything else. quite frankly, you said, if you disagree with me, you disagree with science. dr. fauci, i disagree with you because i disagree with fear. and with that, i yield. >> i know recognize mr. moscowitz from florida for . >> dr. fauci, good to be with you here today. i was not here, when i saw a member of this committee question whether or not you represent science and tried to make that in some offensive way. i want you to know that most people don't think she represents congress. so i hear now double fauci. i don't want you to be offended by that. i actually -- similar to the representative who is serving in the field as a doctor during covid, i was running the logistics operation and the florida response is the director of emergency management for the state of florida for governor desantis. i was deploying masks and gowns and gloves. we were setting up field hospitals and testing sites and vaccine sites. throughout the pandemic. and the one thing that became clear to me as a country is we were not prepared. we actually had many preparations for a pandemic. both the states collectively and the federal government through that out and was making it up as we go through one of the things i wanted to ask you. you are not in the response field. do you feel, since you have left that we are better prepared today than we were several years ago when covid hits? >> in some respects, we are. but in others, i am still disappointed. and i think one of the things that was really a problem with the response was the degree of divisiveness that we had in the country about a lack of a coherent response where we were having people, for reasons that had nothing to do with public health or science refusing to adhere to public health intervention measures. but i think that we would do better hopefully, is that the cdc, i believe he is now recognized some of the failings of the lack of communication and interaction between the federal response and the local public health officials. one of the weaknesses that we had in the united states that other countries didn't have was the disconnect between the health care system and the public health system. the cdc can't demand information from local public health individuals. they have to volunteer to give it to them. it isn't given to them in real time. we were at a disadvantage. >> i saw that. i saw how the lack of investment in technology, we had states trying to share information with the federal government using windows 2000. >> fax machines. >> exactly. we spent 7000000000000.2 packages and 2 administrations. one of my concerns is that i feel especially in supply chain, i feel that we are not that much better off than we were before covid. am i wrong in that? >> i don't think you are wrong. i hope that the cdc has made a very clear that they are trying to change that and correct that deficit of a separation between the local and the federal cdc so that we can get information in real-time. it was very frustrating for us, that often, we had to go to the u.k. or south africa or israel to get real-time information, because they had a connection between what was going on on the ground, and their public health system. they knew right away what was happening. >> dr. fauci, you talked about how we lived in partisan times and a lot of misinformation and colleagues on this body said, you should be charged and found guilty. of course, the only one that has happened to is your former boss. the question i have, when you saw a lot of that this information, whether it was, you know, using disinfectant to do a cleaning or light in the body or china is working super hard, president xi has got it contained. all of the stuff that was put out. were you concerned at -- what was your feeling at that time working in the administration, seeing that come from the podium? >> i was very frustrated by that. it was very clear. i was put in a very difficult position that i didn't like them having to contradict publicly the president of the united states. i took no great pleasure in that. i felt it was my responsibility -- >> he gave you a commendation right before l left. >> i felt it was my responsibility to preserve my own personal integrity and my major responsibility to the american public to tell them the truth. if i could just take this opportunity, when i was saying that if you attack me, you attack science, i didn't mean that i am science. what i meant was that the data showed that hydroxychloroquine does not work. there are people saying, oh, it does. i will give it to people. we know it can be hurtful to them. when you are attacking what i am saying that the science shows it doesn't work, and the science shows that bleach doesn't work. when you attack that, you really are attacking science. because science has shown that it doesn't work. that is what i meant when you are attacking me, you are attacking science. >> thank you, i yield back. >> i recognize mr. jordan from ohio. >> i was it so important that the virus not have started in a lab? >> we don't know where it started. that is the reason why i keep an open mind. i don't know what you mean by why was it so important? it wasn't important. >> you still don't know where it started? the guys you gave money to figured it out in 3 days. mr. anderson said on january 1st, 2020, a virus looks engineered and not consistent with evolutionary theory. the very next day, dr. gary says i don't know how this happens in nature. it would be easy to elaborate 3 days later, they said easy to have option in nature. you don't know? >> if you look at what they are saying, congressman jordan, they were saying that it was not a manufactured virus. it still could have evolved out of a lab. not incompatible. >> and our study of the biden administration, i want to read you a whatsapp message from mark zuckerberg. "the white house the pressure on us to censor the lab leak theory." this is a communication on july 16th, 2021. there certainly feeling the pressure to downplay any lab leak theory and go with the natural origin theory. >> is there a question there? >> one is coming. here's another email to mark zuckerberg good "lujan lab leap don't like six leak theory. intense conversations with the new administration. we started removing 5 covert claims including the lab leak theory." "it seems like a good reminder when we compromise our standards due to pressure, and administration in either direction, we often later regret it. i was it so important, the virus not have started in a lab? >> it wasn't so important that the virus -- we don't know. >> it is inside -- so much so that the top people are asking, where are we getting all this pressure to downplay the lab leak theory. we have an email from june of that same year in june 4th, 2021 saying the same thing. it was certainly important to somebody. >> what is that i got to do with me? >> you are the expert on the coronavirus. i was the administration so pushing not to have the lab leak theory is something that was viable? do you want i can answer that. i kept an open mind. >> open mind. >> that is correct. >> might happen in those 3 days? mr. anderson -- why did they change their mind 180 degrees? justin anderson says 3 days later after he says virus not consistent with evolutionary theory, three days later he says the main crackpot theory relates to this virus being somehow engineered and that is demonstrably false. how did they figure all that out in 3 days? you have an open mind? >> where they did is they testified before this committee what they did. they went back and look at the sequences and realize that their initial concern was unfounded about that. and he did not look at all like it was manufactured. as they said in their paper, even though they feel it was more likely -- you can do that in 3 days. you can scan sequences in a day only 3 days. >> who is robert redfield? >> the former director of the cdc. >> he was also on the coronavirus task force. is that accurate? >> he was a member of the coronavirus task force. >> "left them out because redfield suspected that coronavirus had leak from the chinese lab." is that accurate? >> he said that, but that's not true. that is incorrect, congressman. >> dr. redfield is lying to the committee and sat right where you said. >> when he said that i kept him out, that is an incorrect statement. the roster -- >> was dr. redfield on that conference call when you had mr. anderson and dr. gary on that call? >> he was not. the conference call was put together by jeremy. knowing kept him out. he said he was kept out because he felt -- >> did u.s. tax dollars? >> do you want me to answer the question? >> part of the coronavirus task force would have been on the call. >> the call was arranged for you should ask him. >> did u.s. tax dollars go through a recipient grant through a lab in china? >> i'm sorry. >> did u.s. tax dollars go through a recipient grant through a lab in china? >> yes, it was a sub award to -- >> what agency approves that award? >> national agency of allergy and infectious diseases. >> does not have anything to do with downplaying the lab leak theory? >> no. nothing. >> do you agree that there was a push to downplay the lab leak theory? >> none on my part. >> really. most of the country find that amazing. i still have 11 seconds. >> look at the facts. i've kept an open mind throughout the entire process. >> i yield back. i recognize the majority staff are no longer than 30 minutes of questions. >> dr. fauci, it's good to see you again. i want to ask a couple of questions about some of the members questions and then getting to some follow-ups. the issue this eia trip will spread up. >> i tell you, congressman jim jordan. that was a closer. these are staff members now. we are in a pull back from our coverage on the lawmakers both republicans and democrats have spoken and questioned and democrats defending and republicans, you saw jim jordan and you saw the previous representative from georgia brought his own audio. we will get into all of it. the nation remembers the clip. they were pushed off of as covid lockdowns in the confusion about medicines and mask wearing where tearing up 11 america part. one man stood at the center of the slow and at times wrong information about how to best protect ourselves. the white house chief medical advisor dr. anthony fauci. the men in the hot seat today before the subcommittee. subcommittee on the hill on the coronavirus pandemic. he has been in the house for 2.5 hours now. the last time we saw him on capitol hill looks when he was retiring in 2022. dr. fauci claims he always kept an open mind about the possibility that covid link from a laboratory in china. you saw jim jordan tearing it apart. he never tried to cover up government records on the origins of covid-19. there were emails about how to keep stuff out of your emails and place you are foiaed by someone he was advised by at that time. we have heard some of those emails read aloud. you are watching "outnumbered." i am harris faulkner along with mike almost. also joining us today, fox news contributor lisa boothe and fox news contributor and host of the guy benson show on fox news radio show, guy benson. the last 1.5 hours or so on this pass the statement for a back and forth with fauci at the center. how did you see it? >> harris: of the the most revealing exchanges lives with congressman john joyce a republican from pennsylvania and a johns hopkins train the doctor. it wasn't just lecturing. he was asking questions. fauci was deflecting and obfuscating i think it repeatedly. one of the themes that we have just seen over the last few hours is, fauci i think it is safe to say has an extremely high regard and despite his new spin, he did in fact claim to basically embody science, posing for every photo shoot, constantly on television, and our faces for years. he wanted all of the credit and all of the intention when it suited him. when evidence is directed to him out huge mistakes and dishonesty, that wasn't him. technically, that let someone else. my senior advisor wasn't really an advisor. that email is an aberration. dishonesty, slipperiness. i don't believe him. >> harris: before we go on, i had asked to pull this. we had a visceral reaction to this. georgia republican congressman mccormick who is a doctor himself. he started there and connected with fauci a bit off the top and played some audio. it is a recording of dr. fauci, where fauci says that making people's lives difficult will encourage them to get vaccinated. just watch. >> harris: do you think -- i have to say that i don't see a g solution other than some sort of mandatory vaccination. i know federal officials don't like to use that term. >> once people feel empowered and protected legally, you are going to ask schools, universities, and colleges to save them if you want to come to this college, buddy? you're going to get vaccinated good lady, you're going to get vaccinated. for corporations like amazon and facebook and all of those others are going to say, you want to work for us? get vaccinated. it has been proven that when you make it difficult for people in their lives, they lose their ideological [bleep] and they get vaccinated. >> thank you. our all objections to covid vaccinations ideological leap? >> they are not. that's not what i was referring to. he went in reference to making it hard for people to get education, i would say it very much was in context. >> lee said them at moment seemed seminal. >> i am trying to namaste over here. okay. he did. people lost their livelihoods, because they didn't want to get in experimental vaccines when most vaccines have 5-10 years. less than a year for a virus that was never a threat to their life because of their age are being in good health currently already had natural immunity had been previously exposed to the virus. they lost their livelihood and the ability to put food on the table because of this man. you had mentioned earlier being pushed off the cliff as a na nation. dr. fauci pushed us off. he did irreparable harm. all signs pointing to his funding of gain of function at the wuhan the lab and censoring anyone who said that about the origins to his bad guidance that he gave the nation which has all been wrong starting from the beginning. he said covid was ten times more lethal than the flu. even from the beginning we knew we were basing decisions on the bad data. he said it was a conspiracy to say that viruses came from aloud. he said the vaccine was dead ends for people that they weren't going to be able to transmit the virus. that was a lie. he knew it. he said mask to work. everything he said was a lie to this nation. as a result of it, a wrecked economy. unprecedented overdoses, suicides and the nation as well and a loss of liberty we will never get back. america is no longer in america of the men. i'm sorry, dr. fauci, you are a terrible person and you should be punished for what you have done to this nation. >> here is dr. fauci on the 6 feet of distance and the guidance that he said everybody else was in charge of it. you know they all consulted him. he was the guy at the top. let's watch. >> the issue has a 6-foot distance. i made the statement that it just appeared. that got taken out. i don't know what's going on. it just appeared. it actually came from the cdc. this cdc was responsible for those kinds of guidelines to schools. not me. when i said that it just appeared, and has cleared. was there any science behind it? what i meant by no science behind it is that there wasn't a controlled trial that said, compare 6-foot with three within feet. there wasn't that scientific evaluation of it. what i believe this cdc used for their reason to say 6 feet is that studies years ago showed that when you are dealing with droplets -- which at the time that the cdc made that recommendation, and list out that the transmission was primarily through droplet and not aerosol, which was incorrect. we know now aerosol does play a role. that is the reason why they did it. it had little to do with me, since i didn't make the recommendation. by saying there was no science behind it means that there was no clinical trial that proves that. that is just one of the things that got a little distorted in their response. be when he was the nation's top doctor and the white house medical advisor. none of it was on his watch. on the way, and wasn't just the erroneous 6 feet of distance. it was also them asking for her children. twice, he was asked about this at least two times in the hearing for the first time he said no he didn't recall reading any science that would point to that appeared on the second time he was asked, he said that there was no way to do research on children and masking previous to the pandemic or during it. i guess both things can be true. it can also be true that he was wrong and he lied about it. >> he will never admit or acknowledge that possibility. i see in him and attempt to distinguish and create a chasm between him and at that time, directives that he stated from a position from concrete and penultimate authority from the cdc. right now coming saying that was a cdc. there was no distinction to the american people to the white house, to all of us that were looking for guidance. there was no acknowledgment at that time. eyes, we are all scientists. we are not going to rule anything out. we are seeing him saying any type of -- any type of pushback whatsoever. any type of analysis of me, he is saying against the science. a true scientist would not have ruled out these immediately. a true scientist with not have had behind ideology that he calls b.s. when the face of the nation said let's explore all of this and take our time and take it step-by-step. lives are at stake. we are sitting here and having to hear from him that he considers religious objection to be ideological b.s. he considers certain origin concepts or theories or possibilities to be ideological b.s. meant to be absolutely ruled out from the get-go and for him to say totally shame and cut off and punish those americans that dared to take their time considering their bodies and their health, and he digs in his heels and says, not me. he is at a minimum a narcissist. the problem as "the new york times" says, he is unfairly bearing the brunt of the failures of the pandemic. it is because he dug on so hard at being that authority the entire time. >> i don't understand why they would defend him on this. he was supposed to be the best that we had. either he wanted the job and did it diligently. he wasn't seeing patients. congressman jim jordan pressed fauci on why he and the biden administration refused to acknowledge the laboratory leak theory. let's watch. >> why was it so important a virus not have started in a lab? >> it wasn't so important that the virus -- we don't know. >> it was important to someone in the biden administration. the top people on facebook are asking, where we getting this pressure to downplay the lab leak theory. we have an email from june of this same year, june 4th 2021 saying the same thing. it was certainly important to somebody. >> what does that have to do with me? >> you're the expert. i was the administration so pushing not to have the lab leak theory is something that was viable? >> i have kept an open mind throughout the entire -- >> open mind. >> that is correct. >> i want to go inside the white house at that time. there was a reason why as emily and everybody on the couch and said, we were purged to see what he would say. we thought he was the best among us. you and former president trump thought that at first. >> this is deeply troubling to watch having spent a year and the white house during a once in a generation pandemic. president donald trump was not a scientist. i asked chris secretary was not a scientist. we brought people into the room, because we wanted to know the science. people like dr. fauci and deborah birx. i was in the situation room where i spent hours listening to these experts. the oval office and president trump -- no one wanted to open the country more than president trump. he had individuals around him that he relied on to learn what the science was. to hear dr. fauci -- we played that cleanup on aisle five. his initial response was, you know i don't recall. it just sort of appeared. the 6 feet guidance. you are a scientist. he didn't like it and said that was the cdc. on the masking of children, he was asked to use at this. reviewed any studies. he might have heard what was so frustrating to me is the line from the closed-door testimony. since then, there have been lots of studies that have come out since the pandemic started. specifically on the significant kind of learning loss and speech development for children. he asked him, have you followed up on these studies? dr. fauci said no. you are the scientist that we depended on. and you haven't reviewed the studies posthumously of what it did to our kids. why not, dr. fauci. >> i wouldn't go to any physician -- no one. it is a curiosity that changes it. it is a curiosity that drives them to get to something that is not working for your cancer and diabetes and whatever it is to get to the next better thing. you have got to be willing to try new things and to listen. when representative of georgia said, you weren't seeing patients. you weren't watching people suffer on those ventilators which we know killed a lot of people. not everybody needed to be on them. you weren't watching people go through that and coughing. how could you possibly know what was best if you weren't in the room with the patient? he was silent pretty much at that point. it was a great question. as you pointed out. you reminded us who he was at the time. he was a magician in medicine. he could do all things. >> there were a bobbleheads of ham and yard signs that we should be the next president. he was hailed as this national figure that guided us through the pandemic. we learn what little it appears. science went into determining whether science was. >> one thing i learned through all of this and people like rand paul and scientist and a bunch of people for my podcast on the work i have done at fox. and dr. fauci says i am science, he means it. the nih has incredible control over the research that is done in our country. he was getting emails at the beginning from virologists and epidemiologists, we are pretty sure this came from a lab and did this teleconference afterwards with scientist and instructing them otherwise and everyone else is beating different drumbeat. because they want that funding from the nih and federal government. he means it. even when they are pushing vaccines, the cdc was looking at an outbreak in provincetown's massachusetts were 5% of the cluster outbreak are vaccinated people. when they are pushing vaccines and saying you couldn't transmit it, then you otherwise. that is my biggest problem. they knew better and lied to us. >> real quickly, i interviewed former president trump just a couple of days after the lockdowns were put in place and starting to fan out across the country. he said, by easter, we are going to open up. that led every newscast and new, broadcast, cable, everything. of course it would be months later. he wanted to open up, and this is the man he depended on. what do we think of that now? >> guy: well, i think it is important that we played that mccormick exchange, because he said, "i didn't mean make people's lives difficult that way." yes he did. >> harris: thank you for joining us for this part of our breaking news coverage. for this hour, i have checked, there is no plan or at least a schedule that shows fauci will go before a senate committee. i would love to see it. he needs to see bicamerally everyone on the hill. here is "america reports."