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good morning, it is sunday, do 22. one month after a jury found him guilty, donald trump will do something no other convicted criminal has done before, participate in a presidential debate. in a few days the twice impeached convicted -- since the 2020 election cycle. they will both be in atlanta thursday to participate in the first of two scheduled general election debates this season. it will last 90 minutes and both campaigns have agreed for to take place in a television studio without an audience. the debate will take place a month after trump was convicted on 34 felony counts of falsifying his records in just two weeks before he is set to return to court for sentencing. neither candidate has taken part into -- in a nationally televised debate since the fall of 2020. recent reports indicate they are taking different approaches for preparing. biden will spend several days at camp david developing plans and strategies with some of his closest advisors. his former white house chief of staff has taken time off from his current job to get the president ready for both debates. he is one of biden's closest and most trusted confidence. also an experienced strategist who has helped nearly every democratic presidential candidate since the 1990s prepared. the president's personal attorney will also lend the campaign a hand. he will stand in as trump in a mock debate the team plans to stage. a role he took on to help biden prepare in 2020. a rotating cast of about a dozen other advisors have been tapped to help the president for their for thursday. meanwhile here's what donald trump told nbc yesterday when he was asked what his strategy is for preparing for the debate. >> my strategy is simple, make america great again that is all. our country is going to help and we have to turn it around fast. there is no strategy. >> we are going to turn it around fast, there is no strategy, we will turn it around fast. trump's team has been trying to give off the impression the former president is not worried at all about facing off against biden. they say the campaign trail has been enough of preparation for trump and they have no plans as you heard him say to stage mock debates. nbc's reporting indicates there is at least some reparation happening. he has held informal policy sessions with aids and policymakers including the governor of north dakota and senators jd vance and marco rubio all who are considered to be contenders for the vice presidential slot on his ticket. they are discussing how to respond about inevitable questions like trump's conviction and his role in the january 6 insurrection. and how to rain in the president -- the former president's frederick. his campaign always uses or often uses -- trump is prone as well. during his speech last week he brag about facing a cognitive test and repeatedly got the name of the doctor front. he has mixed up biden and obama multiple times. he has confused nancy pelosi for nikki haley and for those not familiar with trump's long- winded speeches his stream of consciousness ramblings will sound absolutely incoherent. when his teleprompter malfunctioned at a rally in nevada earlier last month he went off script and told a long and meandering story involving a long mit professor, electric boats and whether he prefers electrocution to being eaten by sharks. at another rally he praised the late great hannibal lector, the fictional serial killer featured in the film the silence of the lambs. he added that he is quote, a wonderful man. at two events yesterday he said he proposed a quote migrant league of fighters. ufc style sports league that would put migrants against each other. he added quote, not the worst idea i have ever had. a bizarre proposition reminding people of his barbaric and dehumanizing position toward nonwhite immigrants. he may feel like he has the upper hand in this debate but that is largely because he has been stuck inside his bubble. his incoherent and strange diatribes may play well to his rally goers but it may not play as well with the general public. joining me now are tim o'brien, the senior executive editor of bloomberg opinion and author of trump nation, the art of being the donald and jennifer ruben the opinion writer for the washington post. she's also the author of resistance, how women saved democracy from donald trump. both are msnbc political analyst. thank you for being with us. let me start with you, you have been drawing a lot of attention to inconsistencies and unusual things donald trump has been saying these days. this will be the first test in which he is not in a courtroom, a completely controlled environment and not at a rally which is entirely uncontrolled. what do you think will happen? first of all we have to assume he will show up. lately, he has been talking he wanted a drug test and he is not sure if biden is really operating without medical inducement. let's assume for the sake of argument he actually is going to show up. he said something very dumb which is to lower expectations so if joe biden simply exit to the podium and does not fall asleep or bump his head he will look much better to the audience than they have been prepared to see. donald trump's problem is he is nuts, he is incoherent and cannot answer a question directly. it was interesting in that clip you showed he was asked about his strategy about the debates and he simply said make america great. his brain does not connect between questions and answers. he is not able to formulate coherence of -- coherent response. he has aphasia, where he can make a word where he makes a sound instead of a word. he is easily faded and easily angered. it will be interesting if joe biden turned to him and says why don't you tell us about the shark and electrocution story one more time. i think he is easily faded and extremely aggressive. the other thing that will be a problem for him, really two, there is no studio audience so he will be playing for laughs and applause and there will be not. the second, his microphone gets switched off when president joe biden is speaking. those are two disadvantages that he will have to deal with. >> he normally likes those interjections while someone else is speaking. tim, in a new piece you write that thursday's debate is with the moment demands. what do you mean by that? >> i think it is risky for any incumbent president to take on a challenge or in a debate. there is a long history of incumbents getting derailed by debates. some recover from it, some do not. obama recovered in 2012. gerald ford did not recover from it in 1976. i think the biden camp is taking a calculated risk here and i commend them for it. i think, beyond the important policy issues that will come up around immigration and the economy and donald trump being a convicted felon, i think motors need to see biden shoulder to shoulder with donald trump. there is a myth that joe biden is somehow more feeble or less acute or less present than donald trump. that donald trump is powered by red bull and is a giant slayer. the reality is that donald trump has become seriously degraded over the last eight years. even over the last four since he left the white house. as you know, i have been covering trump for over 30 years and i have never seen him this absent-minded, this incoherent. this article this unhinged. -- this strange, this unhinged. he walks with a slight bend in his shoulders. i was sitting in the criminal trial and it struck me how completely feeble and vulnerable he was. the trump people have been able to feed off of this idea that biden is somehow older or more of a senior management. now, they will be on stage together in an environment as jennifer noted, that is not affectations -- advantageous to drum. he prefers to be a frat boy during debates. and in addition to his microphone being turned off and no live studio audience, he is not allowed to have notes. in addition to the fact that biden can show to voters he is more vital, a better public servant and more in command with the facts than donald trump. donald trump is taking the risk that baby huey, who never prepares for anything, and somehow bs his way through this performance. that is dangerous for him i think. he does not perform well when he is held to account in a non- performative day. we saw that in a courtroom and i think this debate stage is a political version of the same thing. >> jen, one of the issues republicans are trying to make an issue is an important one. the issue of immigration. we have talked about this many times there are real problems and potentially real solutions. donald trump offered one yesterday, his proposal of having a migrant league of fighters in which migrants fight against one another. this is sort of an issue. joe biden is sitting here at camp david doing real preparation around real policies. how will this work? without the studio audience the migrant league of fighters probably does not appeal to the mass of americans even those who believe that immigration is a serious matter that needs to be dealt with. >> that is the matchup, one serious person and one guy eating the chess pieces off the table. it will be a little weird. we will see if donald trump repeats that. i think biden has to do three things. he has to remind the american people essentially trump is channeling adolf hitler when he talks about poisoning the blood and purity this is fascism and it effects that only immigrants coming in but every person in america. the second thing he has to do is make the point again and again is he came up with a solution and donald trump nixed it. he does not want a solution. he wants a mess just like he wants the stock market to crash and other bad things to happen to america. joe biden actually has an answer for all of this. the third thing, he just needs to show that donald trump is unhinged. he claims he built the wall. he never built the wall. he has this bizarre plan to have these people fight. his brain is broken and part julie when he starts talking about immigrants who he loathes and needs to vilify and demonize in order to get his face cranked up to this emotional level of anger. >> it is a fools errand to determine what donald trump means when he says one thing and says it means something else. he did this with the bloodbath as a results to chinese electric vehicles coming from mexico or whatever. he was at the faith and freedom conference yesterday and said something. >> you keep your eyes open you are the police in a way, you can police your those, we have to make sure your vote counts. get out and vote, just this time in four years you do not have to vote, okay? in four years, do not vote, i do not care. we will have it all straightened out so it will be much different. >> in four years do not vote i do not care but we will have it straightened out so it will be different. does this mean i will become president for 4 years and i'm not running again so i don't care what you need next or in four years there will not be a vote? how do you parse this stuff? >> i think both of those things. i think he is saying i need to win this election and once i do, if i am somehow prevent it from running for a third term it will not matter and that is why this election is paramount. if he gets in with a republican plurality in congress as well maybe they try to rewrite the constitution and get rid of presidential term limits so he can become an emperor. i think that is his goal. one of the reasons he fantasizes dictators like putin is he would like to be one himself. the idea of term limits is aberrant to him. i think he's presenting two options, either it will be my last run or i will simply change the constitution but vote for me now. i think it is a measure of how desperate he is, ali, he needs to get elected to allude the long arm of the law. if he does not get elected these two federal trials that have been slowed down, one on election fraud and the other on misappropriation of classified documents as well as a georgia electrical -- electoral fraud case will catch up to him. he is gotten a taste of what that looks like for the first time in his life because he was convicted for fraud in new york and awaiting sentencing july 11. i think he has a deep accidental fear and is propagandizing around it. >> thank you so much for joining us. try killing bugs the worry-free way. not the other way. zevo traps use light to attract and trap flying insects with no odor and no mess. they work continuously, so you don't have to. zevo. people-friendly. bug-deadly. dad and i finally had that talk. no, not that talk. about what the future looks like. for me. i may have trouble getting around, but i want to live in my home where i'm comfortable and my friends are nearby. i can do it with the help of a barber, personal shopper and exercise buddy. someone who can help me live right at home. life's good. when you have a plan. ♪ ♪ a slow network is no network for business. that's why more choose wh comcast business.. and now we're introducing ultimate speed for business, our fastest plans yet. we're up to 12 times faster than verizon, at&t, and t-mobile. and existing customers could even get up to triple the speeds at no additional cost. from the company with 99.9% network reliability and advanced cyber security, it's ultimate speed for ultimate business. and it's all from comcast business. time for a little bible school on a sunday morning on velshi. wednesday, the louisiana governor republican jeff landry signed into law a mandate that forces every classroom in the state's public schools to display the 10 amendments. it requires the posters be at least 11 by 14 inches, they must display the commandments as quote, the central focus of the poster in a large, easily readable font. the posters are supposed include a three paragraph statement proclaiming the 10 commandments have been a quote, prominent part of american public education for almost 3 centuries,". in a joint statement, groups including the aclu, americans united for separation of church and state and the southern poverty law center are you the law violates the separation of church and state and is blatantly unconstitutional. the decision to put the tank amendments in louisiana schools has received some praise, the former alabama supreme court justice wymore applauded the decision -- you will remember wymore, who spent in 2001 spent taxpayer dollars to custom build and install a 21 have done marble monument of the 10 commandments in the alabama judicial building which houses the state supreme court. the monument was ordered and installed without the knowledge of his co-justices. very quickly, the aclu along with other organizations filed suit against the state asking the monument be removed for violating the establishment clause of the first amendment as it endorsed a specific religion for the entire state judicial system. a federal district judge declared the monument must be removed, writing that it had been installed quote with the specific purpose and effect of establishing a permanent recognition of the sovereignty of god, the judeo-christian god overall citizens of this country regardless of each taxpaying citizen's individual, personal beliefs or lack thereof. to this he wrote, the establishment clause says no. he did refuse to remove the monument and dug in on his position saying again quote, without god, there can be no ethics. then, chief justice roy moore was removed from his position. more than 10 years later he would be appointed to the alabama supreme court yet again but he was removed from the bench yet again this time for instructing his estate refused to issue same-sex marriage licenses. louisiana becomes the first state to enact a requirement for displaying the tank amendments in schools since the supreme court struck down a similar law in kentucky in 1980. in that case, the court found the law violated the establishment clause of the first amendment. the louisiana case is also likely to end up before the supreme court. this time around, it will appear before a very different supreme court. under chief justice john roberts, the court, which has a conservative supermajority has delivered a series of decisions chipping away at the separation of church and state. in 2022, a court ruled that -- was allowed to engage his players in christian prayer after the games. in the same month it also struck down the state of maine's banner giving extra dollars to religious schools including some schools that teach beliefs like homosexuality being immoral. and then -- of lgbtq+ rights to claim religious motives in order to skirt and discrimination laws. this is happening against the backdrop of former president donald trump's presidential campaign is which he is leaning heavily to a supposed commitment to christianity and christian values. he has promised his supporters that no one will be touching the cross of christ under the trump administration, i swear to you. i separately promised if he is elected, quote, christianity will have power. yesterday he posted into the social quote, i love the 10th amendments in public schools, private schools and many other places for that matter. we, how could we as a nation go wrong. this may be the first major step in the revival of religion desperately needed in our country. bring back ttc, maga, 2024. let's set aside this irony of the endorsement of the 10th amendments of a man who has been convicted of illegally covering up hush money payments to an adult film actress and ordered to pay $2 million in damages for using money from his charity to pay off his business debts. it is -- his personal value system is not remotely connected to anything moses brought down from the mountain. what is important we all recognize the reason trump is acting as a high demand for the pitch to turn the state of louisiana into gilead. donald trump is co-opting the christian right and embracing christian nationalism because of its goal of transforming the united states of america into a theocracy fits into his agenda. he wants complete control and the euro again ability. he wants to own an weaponize the levers of power. he says that out loud in the christian right has been happy to ignore his many and well- documented moral failings because he promises to bring the power along with him. for that, for that promise from an unrepentant serial liar, they are prepared to worship at the feet of a full file. file. that helps treat and prevent, all in one. to those with migraine, i see you. for the acute treatment of migraine with or without aura and the preventive treatment of episodic migraine in adults. don't take if allergic to nurtec odt. allergic reactions can occur, even days after using. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. it's time we all shine. talk to a healthcare provider about nurtec odt from pfizer. 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it is a good question and how we answer it should shape how we look at immigration the at- large. in a report tuesday, the congressional budget office ventured it best guess. more immigration would drive higher akamai growth, increase federal revenue and shrink the deficit over the next 10 years. the emphasize the estimates are based on existing immigration legislation meaning that if former president donald trump is reelected and follows through on his promises of mass deportation and other immigration restriction, this potential growth advantage immigration provides what disappear. on the same day as a report, president joe biden announced a sweeping new executive action that could offer potential citizenship to hundreds of thousands of immigrants without legal status. the action shields undocumented spouses of u.s. citizens from the petition. a move that could provide a pathway to citizenship for 5000 emigrants. the order as part of a balancing act for the president. two weeks ago he signed another action, severely restricting asylum claims on the southern border. joining me is the congresswoman, primila jayapal of washington, the chair of the progressive congressional caucus and the cochair of the whip -- women's working group on immigration. thank you for being with us this morning. >> always great to be with you, ali. >> the findings of the report are no surprise to the two of us who have been talking about this for a long time. is estimating with a surge in immigration, federal revenue will increase by $1.2 trillion. entirely flies in the face of all of the other nonsense we have been hearing about immigration in the last few years. >> that is exactly right, we have talked about this a lot. it is not just having humane immigration policy is good for our values for american families, it is really good for the economy. and for decades actually, economists have been saying we need to make sure that we are continuing to enhance our workforce and when we do that, immigrants contribute tremendously to our reducing our deficit and increasing revenues and making sure that our workforce has labor it needs. this is great news but, unfortunately, what often happens is people who say that republicans say they want to focus on the deficit and reducing the deficit do not want to look at the fact that immigration is great for the economy. it is why what joe biden did the other day is so important because it restores fairness by allowing u.s. citizens who are married to undocumented spouses who have been here for more than a decade, it allows them to have a path to citizenship without having to leave the country and go into uncertainty, they can do it right here. >> the move prior to that with restrictions on asylum-seekers, we had to divide immigration into policy and politics. -- >> it is not i said that at the time and i have set it directly to the president himself. the issues at the southern border are directly tied to 2 things. one, the conditions in the countries people are coming from and two, the lack of any legal pathway or too few legal pathways for people to come to the united states because the immigration system has not been updated in over 30 years. it is not been modernized which means we have the same caps on different categories of how people can come to the u.s. as we did 30 years ago when the population was so different and our needs were so different. as we saw with donald trump when he shut down the border to asylum-seekers and everyone coming across the southern border, it did not help us. there may be a short-term gain of people waiting to see what is happening but, the reality is, unless you fix the legal pathways that allow people to come into the country they will go to the only place they can see and meanwhile we are stopping asylum-seekers who are really vulnerable, fleeing terrible situations from being able to come to the u.s. >> i want to ask about what you hear from voters about the situation in israel and gaza and how it is affecting their thinking about how they might vote. we have seen examples of a number of people who say they are prepared to withhold their vote they have registered protest voting in some of the primaries. where are we with this? >> i think that, at the end of the day, the coalition that we put together in 2020 to elect joe biden and vice president kamala harris into office and push out a truly dangerous person who is now running again and says he wants to be dictator from day one, it requires every single vote. every vote counts. for our young people, for black folks and people of color more generally, the issue of our values in gaza are very important. people do not understand why the united states is continuing to violate u.s. law because that is what i believe is happening by sending aid to the israeli government when the israeli government has continually impeded access to humanitarian access in gaza and has killed indiscreetly as the president himself has said. we do need a change in policy, it does matter to a lot of voters across the country. not only muslim american, arab- american voters, palestinian american voters but also to broader population who really believe that the united states has a moral duty to stand up for every life and to make sure our bombs are not being used to industry mentally kill palestinians. the president should stop literary assistance to benjamin netanyahu. it is clear he is not interested in stopping this war and not interested in freeing the hostages and he is not interested in a two state solution and those are things that are part and parcel of the united states have you on policy in the middle east. >> thank you so much, representative primila jayapal is a democrat out of washington. washington. you know what's brilliant? 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