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learned who has made the debate stage for wednesday night, the fourth republican debate. also, george santos already has a new gig days after being ousted from congress. he is now making personalized videos for anyone who is willing to cough up the cash, labelling himself an icon. i'm kaitlan collins, and this is "the source." ♪ good evening. tonight, we are now just six weeks out from the first votes being cast in iowa and with former president donald trump still holding onto a significant lead in the 2024 gop primary, he's not only sharpening his rhetoric, using the language of autocrats, he also appears to be making a concerted effort to accuse president biden of what he himself stands accused of doing, undermining democracy. >> but joe biden is not the defender of american democracy. joe biden is the destroyer of american democracy. and it's -- it's him and his people. they're the wreckers of the american dream. the american dream is dead with them in office. >> the biden campaign responded to those comments, saying that trump is deflecting, that this is just his latest desperate attempt at distraction. trump is a tried and true strategy, of course, of accusing himself of what he himself accused of. those comments from the republican front runner come as the warnings about what a second trump term would look like are now coming into clearer view, also why the stakes of it would be much higher, including a report in "the new york times" about how trump would be backed in a second term by a well-funded outside infrastructure. we'll have more on that report with maggie haberman in a moment including on what the staff of a second trump term could potentially look like. this is coming as some of his own former cabinet members have warned he should not be president again, including his vice president. >> president trump asked me to put him over the constitution. and anyone who asks someone else to put themselves over the constitution, should never be president of the united states again. >> more now tonight from a former member of the january 6th select committee, democratic congressman jamie raskin. good to have you here tonight, congressman. obviously what we have been hearing today is from someone that you served on that january 6 committee with, congresswoman liz cheney. she is now warning that -- she says, if trump is elected again, she doesn't think he would leave the white house, that she doesn't think he would leave po power. what do you make of those comments? >> well, we heard the same thing from michael cohen when he testified before the oversight committee several years ago, and we've heard this from a lot of former trump people and the people who studied the situation closely. he's reduced lincoln's party, which used to be a party of freedom, a pro-immigration, anti-slavery party, into a cult of authoritarian personality around him, which doesn't accept the results of elections that don't go their way, and which embraces political violence as an instrument of obtaining power. it has become an authoritarian and fascistic party. and they understand that that is becoming very clear to large parts of america. so, of course, trump will immediately try to cloud the picture by pointing his finger at joe biden and accusing him of being antidemocratic, which is ridiculous. when he says joe biden is not the defender of democracy, you know that joe biden is the defender of democracy. meantime, donald trump has surrounded himself with a bunch of former criminals who are he pardoned, people like michael flynn and joe ar pay you know and da nesh dezu za, and steve bannon. these are all people trump used the presidential power to pardon for crimes they were convicted of, and now they basically form the inner circle of his campaign. you can see him trying to create the embryo of a fascistic, authoritarian, criminal party once he gets back into office. and liz cheney's got it absolutely right. if he gets back in, does any person think that really he would ever leave office again. if you believe that, you're too innocent to be let out of the house by yourself. >> so, you agree with her. you don't think if he was elected to a second term that he would leave the white house of his own will at the end of that term? >> well, i mean, he's been spreading the big lie from even before the election, when he knew he was going to lose and he was trying to condition his followers to believe that the election was going to be stolen. and then when he lost by more than 7 million votes, 306 to 232, he proceeded to try to overturn the election results by spreading that big lie. it was rejected, of course, in 60 federal and state courts across the land, including by eight judges he himself had named to the bench. but he continues to tell that lie and he continues to say that he will pardon the january 6th insurrectionists convicted of everything from assaulting federal officers to seditious conspiracy, which means conspiracy to overthrow or put down the government of the united states. so, he's made it clear, and he's repeatedly said explicitly that he is more important than the constitution, and the constitution should be set aside in order to restore his, you know, his power. and does anybody think he's got any public interest in mind? no. what does he want to do? he wants to get the money making operation going again. >> can we talk about what that would look like? >> transform the presidency into -- yeah. >> on what that would look like, i do think this is a really important part of the conversation. it's not just the fact he's the republican front runner or he could get re-elected -- based on what we're seeing today, he certainly could. but it's what he would do if he's elected. he's made clear he would use the justice department for revenge about his political opponents. he talks about purging the workforce of the harsher immigration policies, some things that aren't surprising for what a republican candidate would want to do, but some using the justice department to go after his opponents. as a lawmaker, what ability or role do you think congress would have in whether those extreme plans, those ideas, in a second term would become a reality? what role does congress play in that? >> well, he would like to turn the presidency into dictatorship. and his models of course are his heroes in the world, people like vladimir putin, the autocrat in russia, xi in china, warban in hungary. these are the people he wants to hang around and he's been consorting with. his son-in-law, jared kushner, brought back a cool $2 billion from saudi arabia for the company he created the day after the trump administration ended. and it is a money-making operation from top to bottom. he has no public program. i mean, i sat there for four years. they talked about infrastructure week, infrastructure month. they just never had an infrastructure bill. joe biden got that done in the second month of office. and we put -- into rail and trail and the roads and highways and broadband. we've got a real program for the country. the democrats aren't perfect but we are a party of democracy, which believes the government should be an instrument for the common good for the people and not an instrument for private self-enrichment of the president and his family and his buddies. and we know that's what they want to do because that's what they did before, that's what they've been doing ever since, and he wants to keep the grift going. the world is on fire right now, and, you know, we've got to deal with climate change. and the autocrats cannot save us, the kleptocrats, the plea cats, it's only the democrats at this point. that is the basic frame for this election going into 2024. >> congressman jamie raskin, as always, thank you for your time tonight. and for more insight into trump's latest claims, what he is saying, i want to bring in "new york times" senior political correspondent, cnn's political analyst, maggie haberman, who is here and has been doing a lot of reporting on this. maggie, first of all, trump saying that biden is the antidemocratic candidate in this race. how much of that is this age-old habit we have seen of his of accusing his opponent of what he himself sustatands accused of, literally in this case? >> there's no question. we've seen him do it over and over. he did it in a debate with hillary clinton famously in 2016. no, puppet, you're the puppet. whatever he gets tagged with, he pushes back on. i think your question is the right one, which is why is he doing this now? i do think the congressman is correct that there are enough voters in the country who are concerned. this is not concern about the framing of stories. are concerned about trump's own actions. when people talk about his efforts to stay in power, when people talk about what happened on january 6th, it's not an especially helpful fact set to trump, i think, that his team is aware of that. so, they are trying to put this back on biden. because there are trump supporters who are upset who are upset he was criminally charged. you can look at the various things he was criminally charged with and decide whether you think that is necessary. he is trying to turn this into how he is the victim, which we have seen over and over again. >> i should note, he's not add libbing what we're hearing off the cuff. he's reading off a teleprompter, often. and maggie, i mean, it seems to suggest this more concerted effort to push back on that charge. i mean, what do you make of whether or not -- >> i think that -- >> -- this is a more formal position he's taking? >> look, it certainly was the case over the weekend, kaitlan, when there were signs at a trump event in iowa, accusing biden of attacking democracy that were on various seats. this wasn't just some impromptu add lib. this is something his team had thought about. to go back to what we said before, they're clearly doing it for a reason. if there was not a trouble spot for him, if this was not a concern to voters about trump's own behavior and his own statements, they wouldn't be doing it. >> what are you hearing from sources on what would be different in a second trump term in terms of not just trump himself but who's around him and what those efforts to enact his policy ambitions look like? >> so, my colleagues, jonathan swan and charlie savage and i have been working on a series about what a trump second administration would look like, going back to june. and, you know, this is not hypothetical, kaitlan. these are generally based on his own -- piece in june was about how he was going to appoint a real special prosecutor, quote, unquote, to go after president biden and his family. he has talked about wanting to have more control over, you know, cities. there was a comment that he made in march, where he talked about, you know, we're not going to wait for permission to go, something to that effect. it was a clear reference to the insurrection act, which he did not use on u.s. cities when there were protests, some of which turned into riots, in 2020, in response to the killing of an unarmed black man in minnesota, george floyd. but he is saying a number of things that he is planning. he has a policy staff that is working on a very, very radical immigration plan. it's not that dissimilar from what trump was talking about in 2016. he has outside groups that are working on efforts to try and not just staff a second administration but help him gut the civil service and to try to take greater control over pockets of authority -- of independence within the government. so, this is all from his own mouth. or from his close allies or his advisers. and this is what would happen next time. and he would be walking into a presidency with a weakened congress, with the people who have been the most opposed to him and his own party, such as liz cheney, not in her seat anymore, mitt romney leaving, can go down the list. there were not many of them, and they are basically gone because he has bent the party to his will. and he has a supermajority of conservatives on the supreme court, which could change things as well. >> yeah. and no worry about having to be re-elected after that. maggie haberman, great reporting, as always. thank you. >> thank you. up next, trump is not going to be there on wednesday night, but very learned who will be there in tuscaloosa, for the next republican debate on wednesday. we'll talk about what their strategy could be. that's next. also from lawmaker to accused lawbreaker, george santos now has a new way to make money. >> thank you for the love, thank botox keeps you love, fillers keep you plump. this just in, the republican national committee has now confirmed who will be on the debate this wednesday night for the next republican debate. the list of qualifiers now down to four. as you can see here, nikki haley, ron desantis, vivek ramaswamy, and chris christie, all expected to be on the stage in tuscaloosa, alabama. what happens there could be, maybe, critical for some of these candidates and their efforts to win the republican nomination, to defeat donald trump, who, yes, qualifies for these debates but has skipped every single republican debate so far and plans to skip this one as well. joining me tonight, republican strategist and pollster christian solstice anderson, and -- ashley alison. let me start with you because the debate stage has been set. but this is a group of people who, despite some of them shifting in the polls, nikki haley, they have not been able to dethrone trump's lead. what do they do on wednesday night? what do they need to do? >> there's what they need to do and what i suspect they will do. what i suspect they will do is go after each other. they are all fighting over this piece of pie that they think is the sort of republican voter who is open to an alternative to trump. the problem for them is at the moment that does not look like a big enough slice of the pie. so, what they should do is spend at least some of their time talking about the guy who's not there and why it's time to turn the page from trump. now, for somebody like nikki haley, she may say, look, my strategy seems to be working thus far. i'm going up in the polls. i don't want to disrupt things and change gears too much. i don't want to tick off the part of the party that does, kind of, like donald trump. if you're ron desantis, if you're chris christie, at this point, what do you have to lose? you need to go for the big guy. >> and "the new york times" is reporting that trump donor -- excuse me, republican donors, strategists, are urging chris christie to drop out. he believe he should drop out, let the support consolidate to nikki haley. he plans to stay in the race until the convention potentially. what does that look like for a chris christie? >> well, i think chris christie is the extreme long shot of becoming the republican nominee. the question is, what does that do for a nikki haley? because if you -- who knows who's going to win iowa? i was talking to a friend who does republican polling today, and i said, i still think donald trump might be the nominee. and she laughed me in the face. she's like, people aren't even registering there is a primary because they assume trump is going to be the incumbent nominee. if you get to new hampshire -- let's say we move past iowa -- and you get to new hampshire where nikki haley is doing pretty well, getting chris christie's share of the pot, if he were to drop out, could bring her much closer to trump. if he's saying, i'm staying in it, the question i ask chris christie, why are you running for president? maybe to be president. but i thought it was ultimately so donald trump would not become president. so, if that means you need to drop off on the right for someone to beat donald trump, it might be the time to do that. >> trump himself is treating this like a two-man race. he's dismissed his republican rivals. is it guaranteed based on, you know, what you heard from that republican pollster, the idea -- could he maybe lose iowa and continue on with this? is it a given he's going to definitely pick iowa? >> i will not put any money against donald trump winning iowa. i think what's interesting is to think about historical precedent for this. think back to the 2000 campaigns -- we're really rewinding, like, a quarter century here. you had the jugger not of george w. bush win in iowa. in new hampshire, independents play such a large year. john mccain that year, surprises everyone, takes new hampshire. the problem is you go on to south carolina. and that's when the juggernaut realizes the insurgent campaign's got us. i suspect even if nikki haley is ultimately successful in new hampshire, can she sustain through south carolina? that's the bigger hurdle. that and also getting chris christie to hand over his 10 to 15% of the vote to her. >> he doesn't e seem prepared. just given this picture and the how far ahead trump is and what we just talked about, what a second trump term would be with maggie's great reporting, what does the white house think about this? when you do look at these polls, biden is not running away with this race. and a lot of them in key swing states, he's down to trump. why is that, and how are they planning to address that going forward, given trump's likelihood of winning this nomination. >> the way they need to address it, if it's donald trump and joe biden, make a true comparison and remind voters what it was like under a four-year term of donald trump. what was one of the first policies he put in place, the muslim ban? who were the three supreme court justices that he put on the court to overturn roe, which is an issue around abortion that is a really bipartisan issue with republicans, independents, and democrats. it's really about painting the contrast. i don't want to do a poliannish picture of this. i don't think just the alternative versus what is joe biden saying -- i don't think that's going to be enough for folks. i think they also are going to have to make it very clear for young voters, for voters of color, for muslim and arab community, what a second term under joe biden would look like. that population right now is not waving the joe biden flag. but i don't think with a year out that we can just say, okay, then forget about those voters. there is an argument to be made. and i'll just close with this. you know, before the conflict with israel and gaza started to happen, joe biden's domestic policy was really popular with many of these young voters, whether it was on student debt or decriminalizing marijuana, or climate. there are things that people like about joe biden. the campaign is going to have to get out there and sell it to these voters. >> it's an interesting vote about a second biden term, not just a second trump term. of course up next for us, after being unceremoniously booted from the house of representatives, former congressman george santos has a new gig, sort of. the question is, will people buy what he is selling? . tonight, the israel defense forces urging more civilian evacuations, as it is stepping up its military operations in southern gaza. previously they had been mainly in northern gaza. now we have seen them move to the south. in addition to air strikes, the idf has now expanded the ground operations there to the entire gaza strip. this, as a top humanitarian relief official for the united nations, says that the situation is gets, quote, more apocalyptic by the day. another warning of hellish scenario if more aid doesn't get into gaza soon. the idf is confirming a report that two palestinian civilians have been killed for every one hamas terrorist. >> i can confirm that report, and i can say that if that is true -- and i think our numbers will be corroborated -- if you compare that ratio to any other military and terrorist organization using civilians as human shields and embedded in the civilian population, you will find that that ratio is tremendous, tremendously positive. >> joining me now, axios foreign policy reporter barack ravid. can we just talk about that comment first of all, tremendously positive? >> i heard it too. i'm not sure that's a good choice of words. you know, regardless of, you know, what you think about what's going on in gaza, i don't think the fact that 10,000 civilians, if we take the version of the idf, 10,000 dead civilians is positive in any way. >> yeah, i mean, and also as they're facing immense pressure from the u.s., as far as what they're doing right now with what is happening in southern gaza, stepping up these military operations. they have said they're more targeted. is that the sense that you have from what you're hearing from sources? >> you know, everything is relative, okay? what they -- what the idf did in northern gaza was basically before the ground troops came in, there was a massive, massive, massive barrage of air strikes, basically to clear the area, and then artillery fire. and only then the ground forces came in. this will not be the case in southern gaza. in southern gaza, we will see much more targeted raids. i'm not sure we'll see artillery at all. and if there will be air strikes, they will be much more targeted. but i think that one of the things that we will see is that israel was facing a dilemma in the last 24 hours. and this dilemma was, what to do with the huge pressure the u.s. was imposing on israel, regarding the increase in humanitarian aid into gaza. and the israelis, i think, realize that the only way they can get u.s. backing foreign operations in southern gaza is if they approve more aid. and this is what the israeli war cabinet did just a few hours ago. >> is it a significant amount more than what was going in? >> again, i think everything is relative, okay? if, until -- before the ceasefire, only 60,000 liters of fuel entered gaza, during the ceasefire, it's 120,000. now it's going to be 180,000. it's an increase every time, and i think we'll see somewhere between 250 and 300 trucks a day. it's an increase. is this what the civilians in gaza need? no. they need more. but it's more than they got. >> and all this is coming, as today we saw the united nations host this moment, a special session, as they call it, to address what happened on october 7th, as far as the sexual violence against women on that day by hamas. there was some really disturbing testimony that we heard from several people, who what they had heard from survivors that day. sheryl sandberg, women's rights advocate, had this to say today. >> rape should never be used as an act of war. -- must be upheld despite the policies of our time. no matter what marches you are attending, what flag you are flying, what religion you practice, or if you practice none at all, there's one thing we can all agree on. there are exactly no circumstances that justify rape. >> what do you make of the fact she felt the need to come out and say that because of the silence we had heard for two months from places like the united nations? >> and a lot of women's organizations around the world, ngos. it was -- you know, it was pretty disturbing when you think about it. when there's every day that passes, you hear more and more evidence and testimonies. and some of the videos they showed today at the u.n. were videos of people who came and gave testimonies to the police. it's not just, you know, people who gave interviews to journalists. they went to the police with a police interrogator, and they gave testimony about some people saw in their own eyes a woman being gang raped in the music festival. others saw women getting mutilated. and i think another interesting thing is what we hear today from the state department spokesperson, from the podium, saying that he thinks that the reason hamas did not release between 15 to 20 women it is still holding hostage is because it does not want them to tell what they've been going through under its custody. and i have to say that i heard the same assessment from at least two senior israeli defense intelligence officials in recent days. this is something that was kept pretty quiet in israel, this's isment. they didn't want to put it out. and they were quite sprurprised the state department said it publicly today. but i think it reflects the -- >> why did they not want to put it out? were they afraid it would jeopardize the hostage negotiations ongoing? >> i think they were afraid it might harm the hostages that are still in gaza, the women themselves. but, again, i think there is -- at least what i hear from israeli officials is that they claim that they have intelligence that shows that some of those women were harmed. >> just disturbing to hear that testimony from them and to think of the women who are still being held right now tonight by hamas. brock ravid, thank you for that reporting. we have more to come on that expanded ground operation in southern gaza, the same area where palestinian civilians, where gazans were just told to leave their homes and go to. we'll be back in a moment with someone who witnessed the humanitarian crisis unfolding in gaza firsthand. we have some awful news to share tonight about our own family here at cnn, as we follow the situation in gaza. since the beginning of this war, our producer ibrahim demon has risked his life doing fearless reporting on the ground in gaza. after nearly a month, he fled with his immediate family, showing us what it was like to have to do that with two small kids in tow. this weekend, he learned at least nine of his family members who were in northern gaza, still trapped there, have been killed, including his uncle and aunt, when an air strike hit the family's home. his childhood home was also hit in a separate strike. he said he'll never be able to forget, quote, every stone and corner of the house in which i was born and raised and which my children were born. we are thinking of ibrahim and his family tonight, as they go through something that unfortunately so many families are also experiencing. this, as we're learning today that gaza is near total blackout, according to the internet monitoring firm. and alltel come services there have been completely cut off. that means palestinian civilians can't check on each other. they can't call for help. they can't get all of those orders telling them where to evacuate. joining me now, unicef executive director, katherine russell, who just returned from gaza last month. thank you for being here. it's good to have you again. given it's so rare to hear from someone who has been on the ground in gaza, what did you see in southern gaza, where you were? >> well, it was really striking actually because i was in khan younis, which now is so much in the news because it's really under assault at this point. when i was there, that wasn't the case. i was there two weeks ago, so there were so many people just even in the street, teeming with people who had moved from different parts of gaza and looking for refuge. i went to a hospital there, and every place i walked, there were people, kind of, sleeping in the corridors or, sort of, camped out in the corridors, on blankets. children, adults, everyone. they were just there seeking refuge. and i remember feeling, kind of, overwhelmed by the sheer numbers of people that i saw. and then i also saw just huge amounts of trash. i think all the typical services have been disrupted. and now, you know, we see in the news every day, that's now a place that's being hit with bombardment. so, it's even worse. but what i saw was just really unnerving really to see how many people were there and to hear from them about how many of them had moved multiple times, had come from different places, had lost family members, and were there trying to find some peace. >> and given that southern gaza and where you were, khan younis, and where they're conducting operations right now, that is where they were told to go by the idf when this was initially happening. now they're being told more targeted areas, to leave those areas. a lot of them don't have internet service, and they're talking about qr codes on the leaflets that the idf is dropping. are they able to even know where to go and what to do? >> no, i don't think so. we estimate that 1.8 million people in gaza, of the 2.2 million people who live there, have been displaced. okay. so, imagine that. they're not home. electricity, power is very hard to come by. so, how do you look at a qr code. with what? if you have a phone, is it even charged up? how do you do that? i think people -- the challenge is that they don't -- they don't have any security at all. they've been moving. they keep moving. they're afraid. they're living in terror. and dhient know where to go. they don't know where it's safe. and i think, you know, the challenge for the world is to say, you know, we're in a situation -- i think of it as a piece of paper. you fold it in half. move south. fold it in half again. fold it in half again. at some point, there is no place for them to go. there is no safe place. and they know that. >> are we at that point now? >> i think we're close to that. i don't know where -- first of all, all of gaza is not that big. it's a small place as it is. and there just is so little space. and it's very -- it's one of the most densely populated parts of the world. and there just isn't any place to go. there isn't any place where people feel safe. >> i mean, it's the size of las vegas. and there are 2 million people there. kathy russell, thank you for sharing that experience with us. thank you for being here. we'll be back in just a moment. newly expelled republican congressman george santos, former republican congressman george santos, i should note, already has a new job. and his coworkers include real housewives and '90s boy band members. he is on cameo. it is an online service where you can get personalized videos from athletes. for $200, the indicted former lawmaker is offering anyone who is willing to pay that, maybe for a christmas present, a birthday shoutout, a pep talk, or advice -- he is advertising he is giving out advise. he brands himself as a former congressional icon and is cashing in with messages like this one. >> you know, botox keeps you young, fillers keeps you plump. look, don't let the haters get to you. haters are going to hate. and if you have haters, that means you're doing something right, girl. so, just keep going. >> i want to bring in cnn capitol hill reporter melanie zanona, who is here with me. i mean, i guess he's not letting the haters get to him. but, i mean, what this just shows me -- i'm sure it's amusing. it's entertaining. it's just, we're in a reality tv world. we're not just covering politics. it is covering reality tv. >> we have seen an increasing number of disgraced or washed up politicians use cameo to try to make money and stay in the spotlight. in some ways it's not surprising that santos would hop on here. there was so much demand he upped his price to $200 a pop. i remember talking to santos -- he is relishing in all the attention. he was mocked by "snl" on saturday. , you you know, he's been tweeting at a bunch of different celebrities. what he's accused of is very serious. he's accused of defrauding voters, donors, lying, stealing, cheating. congress has felt like covering "real housewives," so it's not surprising to see him on cameo. >> "real housewives" seems to have a tighter grasp on reality. we're seeing people take advantage of this. senator john fetterman, who has been critical of bob menendez, who is also facing an indictment, he paid george santos to say this to him. >> hey, bobby. look, i don't think i need to tell you, but these people that want to make you get in trouble and want to kick you out and make you run away, you make them put up or shut up. you stand your ground, sir, and don't get bogged down by all the haters out there. stay strong. merry christmas. >> i don't think that he actually knew that he was making that for senator menendez until john fetterman posted it on twitter. >> yeah. that's exactly right. so, fetterman, who just a reminder, he has called for menendez to resign. he had his campaign commission this video -- you heard it -- urging him to stay strong. and they made it out to bobby from new jersey. so, then after fetterman tweeted this, then santos responded and said, i wish i knew the bobby in question, but lol, and i love it. this isn't the only example. the democratic party also commissioned a video, and they had santos thank bernie moreno. he's a republican candidate for senate, for maxing out desantis' congressional campaign in 2022. it appears democrats are trying to score some political points, trying to use santos as an unwitting player in that. it's unclear who's >> he got four hunted dollars for that. >> and you probably got thousands of dollars, if you do the math, i don't love math, that's why i'm a journalist, but $2,000 a pop for 150 those, that's a lot of money. >> i can go to -- >> botox, fillers. >> melanie zanona, i mean, you are on the reality tv beat, thank you so much for being here. in just a few moments, you will hear directly from senator john fetterman on george santos, center mendez, much more. abby philip is gonna be talking about him at the top of the hour, you are going to want to watch. that also tonight, a shocking announcement so controversial u.s. senators and not one but two candidates for president are outraged about. they're demanding answers, we have the answers here, and the receipts. that's next. in order for small businesses to thrive, they need to be smart, efficient, savvy. making the most of every opportunity. that's why comcast business is introducing the small business bonus. for a limited time you can get up to a $1000 prepaid card with qualifying internet. yep, $1000. so switch to business internet from the company with the largest fastest reliable network and that powers more businesses than anyone else. learn how you can get $1000 back for your business today. comcast business. powering possibilities. it is no secret to anyone who watches this show or follows me on twitter, i am a die hard alabama football fan. after defeating the number one team in the country saturday night, the crimson tide was selected as the fourth seed in the college football playoff. that means the selection committee denied florida state the chance to play for a national title. it's been the cause of opera, given the seminal's did not lose a game this, year they won the acc. their coach, mike norville, said it is a snub that, quote, goes against everything that is true and right in college football. now, i can bring up alabama's tough schedule or how the committee was clear that an injury, like the one the talented f quarterback, jordan travis, experienced this season, would factor into their decision-making. but you can also see just how divisive this is when you have og simpson on one side saying that they got the decision right, donald trump blaming florida governor ron desantis on the other side, saying it's his fault florida state didn't make it, in addition to that angrily worded letter, senator rick scott has sent demanding answers. for more on maybe some of those answers, joining me now is espn college football commentator paul find bomb, the one and only. paul, i just wonder, you are the first person when i was thinking about this today, what do you say to people who believe fac was snubbed here? >> kaitlan, i will be respectful here, it's late at night. >> [laughter] >> they have a valid argument this committee takes deserving. but in my mind, we should have the four best teams in america playing in the most important event. and fs1 is not one of them. they lost their best player, a generational player, jordan childless for the quarterback. d without him, they're good team, they're an elite defense but they really should not be part of what we're seeing. and a lot of reason for that is what happened last year, tcu got to the final game and lost 65 to 7 against georgia. and i think in the back of this committee's mind, they do not want this to happen again. >> yeah, that's what i thought as well, what happened with tcu. you see the argument after arguments, and jordan travis was a huge talent. but it is a different team without him being able to play on it. and as you rightly noted earlier, the seminoles actually would have been in the playoffs if we had been operating with the 12 team format that is going to go into place next year. >> they would've played liberty, another team that is undefeated. i'm not gonna argue for liberty, you just have to see it. but it's interesting that they did this to themselves. the acc commissioner and 2 other power 5 commissioners went against the norm. this had already been approved for 23, kaitlan. instead, or having to wait until next year. but the other thing i want to say is that people want to use accusations like alabama got in because of saban, alabama got preferential treatment. i even heard that on cnn last night. >> [laughter] >> that is absurd, that is absolutely absurd. alabama beat the number one team in the country in the biggest game of the year, the s.e.c. championship game. okay, they have a loss. we are all aware of that. they lost to texas on september 9th. where do texas land? the number 3 team in america. that's the best loss of anybody under consideration. and it's easily the best win. >> paul, i texted my dad, as i told you before, who i should note, my dad used to pick me up in junior high and we'd listen to you every afternoon. >> [laughter] -- >> i never listen to the top songs are news, we listen to people calling into you to ask these kinds of questions. he wants to know what your predictions are for the score for michigan alabama pasadena? >> but kaitlan, i am not just patronizing you, but i am one of your biggest fans, as you know. but alabama is going to win that game. and one thing we haven't talked about is the fact that michigan is in, there despite all kinds of accusations. i talked to the head coach, jim harvell, who is suspended not by the ncaa, but by his own commissioner of the big ten for this sign stealing scandal. so i think hopefully we can get you a break, from your bosses in new york, and we will see you either in pasadena or in houston for the national championship game. >> we will make it a deal. paul finebaum, as always, love listening to you, great to have you on. thank you for joining me. >> thank, you kaitlan, my pleasure. >> love when we have a moment to talk about alabama football here on the show. thank you so much for joining us here on the show. cnn news night with abby phillip starts right now. ♪ ♪ ♪ he does the left have an antisemitism problem? that's tonight on news night. ♪ ♪ ♪ good evening i'm abby philip in new york. in a moment, a cnn exclusive, my wide-ranging interview with pennsylvania senator john fetterman. but, first a mob marches through the heart of fetterman's home state to send a message, jews are not welcome. the protesters in philadelphia viewed from the political

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