>> far too many palestinians have been killed. far too many have suffered. >> is enough being done to protect civilian lives? i'll speak to the israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu. plus, 2024 strategy. polls show president biden is struggling even as democrats win big on election day. >> abortion access is the law of the land in ohio! >> while senator joe manchin says he won't run for re-election. hurting democrats' chances of holding the senate and potentially challenging president biden. will democrats still be able to motivate voters with biden on the ticket? i'll talk to senator chris murphy of connecticut, clashing and clashing candidates. donald trump's republican rivals battle on the debate stage. >> i'm sick republicans losing. >> let's find consensus as the former president plots revenge. >> as the former president plots revenge. >> if i happen to be president and i see someone who is doing well and beating me very badly and i will say go down and indict them. >> ka any candidate catch up to trump? i'll speak to the chair of the republican party ronna mcdaniel. joining me for insight and analysis are, nbc news washington managing editor carol lee. >> former homeland security secretary jeh johnson and marc short, former chief of staff to mike pence. welcome to sunday. it's "meet the press". >> from nbc news in washington. the longest running show in television history, this is "meet the press" with kristen welker. good sunday morning. israeli strikes are pounding gaza city as ground forces close in on gaza's largest medical complex, al shifa hospital, which israel says hits on top of hamas' main command center, claims hamas and al shifa staff deny. thousands of civilians have been sheltering in the shifa compound in recent weeks, but many fled friday after nearby strikes. still doctors say it is impossible for everyone to get out, trapped with no electricity or fuel to run generators. pressure is growing on israel which has agreed to short daily pauses in some areas of northern gaza. on thursday president biden says pauses should have come sooner. >> did you ask for a three-day pause to netanyahu? >> no, i've been asking for a pause for a lot more than three days, yes. >> in the strongest u.s. comments to date, secretary of state antony blinken said on friday that far too many palestinians have been killed. in tel aviv, thousands of protesters gathered on saturday night, expressing frustration with the government's response to more than 200 hostages that hamas and other militant groups captured on october 7th. more than 300,000 people marched in london, denouncing the rising civilian death toll in gaza, but the u.s. has stopped short of calling for a cease-fire, something french president emanuel macron pushed for on friday while recognizing israel's right to defend itself. >> i think this is the only solution we have, this cease-fire, because it's impossible to fight terrorism by killing innocent people. >> de facto today, civilians are bombed. de facto, babies, ladies, old people are bombed and killed. there is no reason for that, so we do urge israel to stop. >> joining me now is israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu. mr. prime minister, welcome back to "meet the press." >> thank you. good to be with you. >> we really appreciate you being here. this is the attack on israel on october 7th. the ground offensive to eradicate hamas is under way. mr. prime minister can you tell us how will you know when you have achieved your objective and how close are you to that goal? >> we set a specific target, that is to destroy hamas' military capabilities and to destroy its governance capabilities over the 2 million people that it holds hostage in gaza. that is something that we are achieving step by step and i assure you we'll complete the task. if you want peace, destroy hamas. if you want security, destroy hamas. if you want a future for israel, the palestinians, the middle east, destroy hamas. we're absolutely intent on achieving it, and what i can tell you, kristen, is given the extraordinary performance of the israeli army in the last few days and the last few weeks, we're going to achieve it. we'll do it with as few civilian casualties as we can, and with maximum casualties on the hamas terrorists, which we're achieving day by day, hour by hour, and we'll complete the task to victory. >> do you think it will take months? will it take years? what should people be expecting? >> i don't think it's going to take the time that it took the united states and the international coalition to defeat isis or to defeat al qaeda. it took you many years. i don't think it will be many years, but i've set targets and not a deadline, and we are proceeding as quickly as we can, but also as carefully as we can because we want to minimize civilian casualties and we want to minimize casualties on our side while maximizing the casualties of the hamas terrorists. we are actually achieving both. i would say the ground offensive that we began is actually reducing the amount of civilian casualties because the population, the civilian population in gaza, is heeding our call to get out of harm's way even though hamas is trying to keep them in harm's way, we are succeeding in that. so the level of civilian casualties is coming down importantly, and our military successes are coming up. that's important as well. >> let's talk about what's happening at al shifa hospital, which is loss of power and even death. there are reports that there has been a loss of power, which has caused the death of patients, and i know israel has said hamas is headquartered there. even if that is the case does that justify jeopardizing the lives of sick people in babies, mr. prime minister? >> on the contrary, we offered, actually, last night to give them enough fuel to operate the hospital and the incubators and so on because we have no battle with patients or with civilians at all, and i think every civilian death, every dead baby is a tragedy and that tragedy should be placed on the responsibility of hamas which is keeping its military installations inside hospitals, its command posts inside schools and u.n. facilities and so on. we honestly do not want to give them immunity, but at the same time, we are sensitive to this issue so we offer this help. i've offered something else. i've said let's build field hospitals. i asked the emirates and the french president who sent a floating hospital ship. we've asked other countries, the u.n. and so on to build field hospitals. let's move the patients out of these hamas command posts in the hospitals to these safe places. so far they've moved a few patients, not enough. we'll try to do this as carefully as we can while not giving sanctuary to hamas. >> let's talk about the hostages. there is a possible deal that would involve getting out, women and children and the elderly. how closer you to reaching a deal to get more of the hostages out? >> well, kristen, i can say we weren't close at all until we started the ground operation. in fact, we heard that there's an impending deal of this kind and that kind and then we learned it was hokum, but the moment we started the ground operation, things began to change. >> so is there a potential deal, mr. prime minister? >> there could be, but i think the less i say about it the more i increase the chances it materializes and it's the result of pressure, military pressure. the extraordinary work that the idf is doing, putting pressure on the hamas leadership and that's the one thing that might create a deal and if a deal is available, we'll talk about it when it's there. we'll announce it when it's achieved. >> do you know where all of the hostages are being held, mr. prime minister? >> we know a great deal, but i won't go beyond that. >> okay. there are a lot of mixed messages, as you know, about what has been agreed to as it relates to humanitarian pauses. can you be very clear to our audience, what has israel agreed to in terms of daily humanitarian pauses? have you agreed to four-hour daily pauses? >> let me be clear on what we agreed on and what we don't agree on. what we don't agree on is give a cease-fire to hamas with the exception of one intended for the release of our hostages. we will continue this to the end. we have to have victory. there is no substitute for victory, and we will destroy hamas for our sake and for the sake of peace and the future, but in addition to that, we are fighting a war in which we are trying, doing our best in a way that very few armies have done to give a corridor, a safe corridor for civilians to get out of harm's way. at the same time, hamas is firing on the corridor we're giving to the palestinian civilians. against all these obstacles we are still calling on civilians to leave and for that we create pauses, that is a four-hour pause, a three-hour pause in a particular area while the fighting proceeds elsewhere to let the civilians out of harm's way. that's what we've been doing. we've been doing this with the cooperation of president biden and the administration. we've created a humanitarian safe zone in southwest gaza, south of the fighting area. we pushed in humanitarian aid to help those civilians, and i think it's a combination of the two things. fight hamas, don't give them safe haven, but allow the civilian population to reach a safe zone. >> mr. prime minister, as you know, even those in the south, french president macron said there is no justification for the bombing of civilians. all over the world, you are seeing protesters who are calling for an end to civilian deaths in gaza. can you win this war without global support? >> we will win this war because there is no other choice. there is no life for us and no future for us and our neighbors if we allow iran, hezbollah, hamas, the houthis, and the millions to dominate. we want peace on the other side, the modern arab states and the rest of the civilized world. it's a question, who wins? we have to win. there is confusion in many parts of the world. i have to say, not in the united states. i am glad to see that the majority of the american people support israel. they understand that we're fighting the just battle of civilization against barberism. but those who protest for hamas, you are protesting for sheer evil. there are a lot of misguided people out there who don't know the facts. you are talking about people who targeted civilians, who raped and murdered women, who beheaded men, who burned babies alive and kidnapped little babies and holocaust survivors and these are the people you are supporting. it's like world war ii. the allies are fighting the nazis. hamas are the new nazis. imagine the allies are fighting the nazis and invaded france after they were attacked by the nazis and go into the cities of germany. the nazis are fighting within civilian quarters and civilians get killed. in fact, millions were killed. millions were killed. who do you protest against? do you protest against the nazis or against the allies? the people are protesting for sheer evil and it's wrong and it's a condemnation and it's an indictment of higher education in some of our universities. >> mr. prime minister, as you know, a number of the protesters are protesting the actions by israel, and even the secretary of state is saying far too many palestinians and civilians have been killed. let me ask you this. how many civilian deaths are you willing to bear in order to achieve your ultimate goal of eradicating hamas? >> if i had my way, there wouldn't be a single civilian day. if i had my way, no civilians would be killed. if israel had its way and our calls would be heeded, they would all be out of harm's way. in fact, and i'm saying this luckily now and fortunately, hundreds of thousands have moved out of harm's way heeding our calls and overcoming hamas' threats at them at gunpoint not to leave the zone. >> do you know how many civilians have been killed, mr. prime minister? do you know how many civilians have been killed? do you have an accounting of the number? >> i wouldn't trust the hamas numbers. when you say gazan officials, that's hamas officials, i.s.i.s. officials. >> what's the number? >> it's lower than theirs and what's most important, kristen is that we see a steady decline in the number of civilian deaths as our ground action proceeds because people understand that they have to clear the way and they leave. and, remember, our goal -- and we're taking extraordinary efforts to achieve it -- is to minimize civilian casualties, and that is our ethos. here is the problem. we are faced with the most vicious kind of enemy that not only attacks civilians and commits the other war crime of hiding behind civilians. they use them as human shields. they fire on our safe corridors. it's not israel that's doing that. >> yeah. >> we have to at once try to focus our fire on the terrorists. >> yeah. >> try to minimize the civilian deaths, and at the same time, not give immunity because what will happen,ing kristen? with this system, we'll do everything we can to minimize civilian casualty, but you have to do everything in your power to lay the blame of the civilian casualties on where it belongs on hamas. we don't want to make human shields an effective strategy for terrorists. >> mr. prime minister, i have a few more questions to get through, and i know we're running out of time. the u.n. commissioner for human rights said just this morning while hamas has committed war crimes, the collective punishment by israel of palestinian civilians amounts also to a war crime. can you say definitively that right now israel is not breaking international law? >> yes, i can say what the commissioner said is hogwash. the main difference is are you deliberately targeting civilians? no. we are deliberately doing everything in our power to target the terrorists and the civilians as happens in every legitimate war and are sometimes what are called collateral damage. that's a laundered way of saying unintended casualties, and that's what israel is doing. and clearly hamas is doing the opposite. they're doing everything in their power to have their civilians hurt because they want this ridiculous and want an attack on israel and israel's legitimacy to take root, and unfortunately, people are giving into this. if we lose sight and the moral clarity of supporting the force that is hiding the terrorists and hiding behind civilians and blaming the victim for these attacks, the victim who takes the just action to defend itself, then we'll never be able to fight the terrorists. they'll always hide behind civilians and we'll never be able to fight them. >> let me ask you about gaza, mr. prime minister, you said saturday you are opposed to palestinians, and israel will control gaza for as long as needed and are you saying israel would re-occupy gaza and what do you say to those who say there should be an international force to govern gaza after the war? >> we have to make sure it's not a threat to israel. we said destroy hamas, and for that, if we want to have peace, we have to destroy hamas. this is what israel must do, and this is what israel will do. >> would you accept an international force, mr. prime minister? >> i think the only force right now that can guarantee that hamas -- that terrorism does not reappear and take over gaza again is the israeli military. overall israeli military will have to be israel. as far as the civilian management of fwaz, we need to see the following two things. gaza has to be demilitarized and gaza has to be deradicalized, and so far we haven't seen any palestinian force, including the palestine aboutian authority that is able to do it. they teach their children to hate israel. they're not fighting for terrorists and they're paying for -- the terrorists murder jews and the more they get paid. there is more savagery perpetrated on the jewish people since the holocaust and they refuse to condemn the savagery. so we need a different authority. we need a different administration. >> who would that be? who would that be, mr. prime minister? >> i think it is too early to say. >> okay. >> kristen, it is too early to say, but i can say one thing. the first task to achieve is we have to defeat hamas. the first task before they could reconstruct germany was to defeat the nazis. these as the german chancellor said are the new nazis. we'll defeat them and work to have a demilitarized and a de radicalized gaza, which will give hope to these people. they're living under 16 years of horrendous, tyrannical rule of hamas, we liberate them and we liberate ourselves from this horrors, the scourge of barbarism that plagues not only us. it's not only our war. it's your war, too, the war of civilization and barbarism. >> israel's top military security and political leaders have taken responsibility for the attacks on october 7th. can you be clear, do you bear any responsibility for missing the attack? >> well, i've said after the war there will be a thorough investigation and everyone will have to answer questions including myself. but right now we're focused on one thing. >> do you bear responsibility? >> we all bear responsibility. >> okay. >> nobody will evade responsibility. it's a nonissue. not because it's a nonissue. >> was your government distracted? >> not because it's a nonissue. and there will be time to deal with it, and the time to deal with it is -- after pearl harbor and after 9/11 did you deal with it? think, afterward. the first thing was to unite to defeat the terrorists and israel right now after our 20 9/11s. proportionately we suffered 20 9/11s on a single day and we will fight until we achieve victory and nothing short of victory. >> what do you say to those who argue that your administration was distracted by your months of protests due to your judicial reforms? >> we weren't distracted at all. there will be time to answer all of these questions, and i don't want to get into that. but i think right now, rather than relitigating the past, which many people perhaps would like to do, but i think it's wrong. i think we have to focus every ounce of energy and every ounce of will and resolve to achieve the goal of destroying hamas. we won't have time to relitigate the past if we don't have a future. let's destroy hamas this is the battle to defeat the axis of terror because if hamas is the integral part of this axis of terror and everyone is sitting on the bleachers in the middle east and in the world, and they want to see who's going to win. the good guys or the bad guys? and history doesn't favor automatic will i the good guys. they have to must their resolve, their courage, their determination to defeat the bad guys and otherwise we get into a dark age and its happened before in history and we have to make sure it doesn't happen again, and i know most americans understand that we have to defeat hamas for our sake and for your sake as well. prime minister netanyahu, thank you so very much for all of your time this morning. we really do appreciate it. >> thank you, kristen. and when we come back, with less than a week to go before a potential government shutdown, can congress pass president biden's urgent request for aid to israel and ukraine? democratic senator chris murphy joins me next. c'mon, we're right there. c'mon baby. it's the only we need. go, go, go, go! ah! touchdown baby! -touchdown! are your neighbors watching the same game? yeah, my 5g home internet delays the game a bit. but you get used to it. try these. they're noise cancelling earmuffs. i stole them from an airport. it's always something with you, man. great! solid! -greek salad? exactly! don't delay the game with verizon or t-mobile 5g home internet. catch it on the xfinity 10g network. welcome back. with just five days until a government shutdown, house speaker mike johnson unveiled a plan on saturday which will likely depend on democratic support to pass. the bill would extend government funding for a number of federal programs without spending cuts, including veterans and military construction programs through mid-january and for others through early february. it omits any funding for israel or ukraine. white house press secretary careen st. pierre panned it with shutdowns full stop, but the real test will be in the senate. democratic senator chris murphy, a be in of the foreign relations committee joins me now. senator murphy, welcome back to "meet the press." thank you for being here. >> good morning. >> let's start with this bill. this is a two-tiered bill created by the newly installed speaker mike johnson, will you support it? >> there is no way to run a railroad. we shouldn't be in a position to pass multiple continuing resolutions and in the senate we've been able to find bipartisan agreement on a budget that not only funds what the country needs, but gets money to our partners all around the world who are in desperate need of american support. listen, we cannot have a government shutdown this weekend, certainly not while we are facing these existential crises with our friends in israel and ukraine. i don't like this laddered cr approach. it looks gimmicky to me, but i'm open to what the house is talking about. the priority has to be keeping the government open, and i think this is a moment where reasonable people in the senate -- and that's where most of the reasonable people are these days -- have to make sure that we are not making the perfect enemy of the good. i don't like what the house is talking about, but i'm willing to listen. >> i hear you saying you're not a yes yet, but you're not a no. what do you need to get to yes on this piece of legislation? >> well, we are going to proceed in the senate on a clean cr without gimmicks and without ladders. it does worry me that the house process requires you to come back and deal with half the budget on one day and half the budget on another date. that sounds to me like a little bit of a recipe for failure, but i'm willing to listen to the case that they're making. i would much rather listen to the cr that keeps the entire government open to the same date. >> very quickly before we move on, does this bill make it more or less likely that there will be a shutdown? >> listen, i don't think anybody can predict what happens in the house of representatives. that place is a dumpster fire. until we get reasonable, thoughtful leadership that prioritizes bipartisan cooperation in the house, every single day is going to be a bit of a nightmare for the american people. >> are you concerned about ukraine and israel aid passing? do you think it can get done before the end of the year? >> it has to get done by the end of the year. >> will it? >> i'm going to predict it will. sometimes in this business i've learned there are moments when you can't fail and you can't necessarily see the path to get there, but you get there. ukraine is falling out of bullets with their guns. israel needs our support. republicans in the senate say they want there to be some border provisions as part of this package to move forward. some of us are trying to work hard to meet those republican concerns. i don't know whether we'll get there, but there are a lot of people of good will trying hard to get money for ukraine and for israel by the end of the year, and i think it will get done. >> let's talk about what happened this week and mixed results. on the one hand democrats had election night on tuesday. there were a slate of troubling poll numbers for president biden which showed him trailing former president trump in key battleground states. one democrat described that to me as a five-alarm fire. really you alarmed right now about the prospects of president biden's re-election? >> i actually am not because i don't see those as mixed results. we don't choose a president based upon public polling a year out. what matters in this country is election day. over and over when voters turn out in elections, they are choosing democrats. why? we're talking about things that matter to people. how much money are they making? how much are they paying? republicans are focused on things that don't matter, regulating drag shows, and trying to give guns back to criminals. these are things that fundamentally are completely divorced from where the american public are, and so i don't think these polls necessarily predict what the election a year from now is going to be, and i actually think when voters turn out to the polls that's the sign of how strong the democratic brand and president biden's brand is today. >> when i talk to democrats, one of the things they're most concerned about is the fact that these polls show president biden losing key support among voters of colors, young voters, union voters, as well. how does he win back their support? >> well, continuing to talk about things that matter to those voters. listen, i love president biden taking a bold stand on the uaw strike. a lot of people, some of his advisers probably, told him not to get out there and get in the middle of a labor strike, but he did because he wants to show the american public and he wants to show middle-class voters that he'll take the side of workers and not corporate america, and i think he needs to do more of that. >> let's talk about senator joe manchin and his announcement this week that he's not going to run for re-election makes it tougher for democrats to hold on to the senate. how concerned are you about democrats holding on to the senate? how concerned are you that he's going to run as a third-party candidate? >> i like joe a lot. he's been critical to many of the successes that we've had in the united states senate over the last two years. i'm not sure i would be worried about him running as a third party candidate and if he does he'll draw more votes from donald trump than he does from joe biden. in earlier years we had to draw an inside straight from every competitive race, and the republican candidates were and still are wildly stream, and our candidates were really excellent, and that dynamic is still in play in 2024. >> all right. senator chris murphy, thank you so much for being here. i really appreciate the conversation. >> thank you. >> thank you. when we come back, what are the lessons for republicans after tuesday's election losses? i'll talk to republican national committee chairwoman ronna mcdaniel. that's next. welcome back. after election losses on tuesday including in ohio where abortion rights were enshrined in the state's constitution, the republican candidates challenging former president donald trump responded on stage to what a winning path forward would look like in a post-roe world. >> i think of all of the stuff that's happened to the pro-life cause, they have been caught flatfooted on these referenda. >> let's find consensus. let's agree on what -- how we can ban late-term abortions. let's make sure we encourage adoptions and good quality adoptions. >> it's back to that republican culture of losing. the republicans did not have an alternative amendment or omission on the table. >> this should be decided in each state. >> i would challenge both nikki and ron to join me at a 15-week limit. it is in our nation's best interest. >> joining me now is ronna mcdaniel, chairwoman of the republican national committee. chairwoman mcdaniel, welcome back to "meet the press." thank you for being here. >> thank you for having me. great to be with you. >> really appreciate it. let's talk about tuesday night and let's talk big picture. republicans a tough night losses in ohio, virginia, kentucky. what do you say to republicans who say you bear some responsibility for that and you're not the right person for this moment? >> well, i'm proud of the rnc, and i stand by what the rnc is doing, and some people don't understand what we do. we're a turnout machine, and actually it's going to look like more republicans turned out in virginia than the democrats. we turned out more republicans than democrats in kentucky. we're not the messaging. that comes from the candidate and that's up to them, but i am very proud of our minor the outreach that the rnc is doing and the 70 lawsuits we're in on voter integrity, and it's instrumental to the white house keeping the house in 2024. let's talk about the key issues with the candidates this week, the issue of abortion. >> sure. >> and i want to put this question that we asked them, which is given the losses that you saw on tuesday, given the losses that we saw in the midterms, what is the path forward for republicans on the issue of abortion both in terms of messaging and policy? >> kristen, i'm very passionate about this. i'm a suburban woman. i saw this in 2022 as chair of the rnc. i actually put a memo out letting our candidates know this is a big issue. i probably took it more seriously than some others because i have suburban mom friends. this is my community. we have to talk compassionately. we can't attack women. we also have to define ourselves before the democrats define us. and this is my number one message. if you're digging yourself out of a hole, you're going to lose, but if you go on tv and tell the american people, listen, we're all passionate about this issue, and it's confusing right now. at a time of consensus can't we agree with limitations at 15 weeks when a baby feels pain? when you do that, will democrats join me here? democrats are still extreme on this issue, but you have to define yourself first. >> let me follow up on that. you talk about 15-week limits. that's what the governor of virginia was pushing for and democrats, of course, swept the state legislature. do you still stand by that message that 15 weeks -- a 15-week limit at the federal level is the right policy to be pushing for for the republican party? >> it's not my decision about federal or state. i think glenn youngkin did a good job, and i think the numbers in virginia will bear that out with the higher turnout. where they spent the money, though, is the issue. democrats spent on abortion nine times to one for republicans, and this is my point of if you are letting them define you. they had ads going up saying we're going to ban everything, no exceptions for rape, life, and incest. that just isn't true. i'm proud to be a pro-life party, but we can win on this message. the american people are where we are, and they want commonsense limitations, and they want more access to adoption. we want to make sure that there's pregnancy crisis centers and these are things we can win on, but we have to talk about it and you can't hide in a corner and think abortion is not going to be an issue and this is what democrats are running on because they can't run on crime and they can't run on the border and fentanyl and it was spent on this issue and we just saw in ohio and virginia and there are lessons and it will be up to the candidates to go on tv. i'll say one thing. danny digs in virginia ran for state senate. they didn't sweep virginia. it was one seat and it's a purple state. he had his daughter on tv and he took it head-on, and he handled that issue well. >> nbc is reporting in the wake of tuesday's results the campaign arm of the senate republicans is calling on candidates to clearly oppose the national abortion ban in tv ads and speeches. i know you don't want to weigh in, but just big picture, is that a smart strategy? is that the right approach? >> i'm not going to get involved in policy. i'm not a policy. i know my lane. we're going to let the legislators and the senators stake their lane out. the democrats will make it a national issue, and i do think we have to talk about this issue because the democrats will say we'll take it to the senate and codify it. and so there's a lot of discussion to be had, but we can't just say it's a state's issue and be done. >> let me ask you about the republican front-runner. former president trump this week during his campaign events he threatened to indict his political enemies if he wins a second term. does that essentially make the republican party take a stance of the republican stands for revenge? what do you think of that messaging? >> you know, i'm not going to get involved in rhetoric that's happening during a contested campaign for our presidential nominee. i will say a lot of republicans, kristen, feel like there's a two-tier system of justice, that republicans are getting prosecuted -- or persecuted through prosecution, and they see it with president trump. people feel like there's one standard for democrats and for republicans and they've seen it come through democrats attorneys general and others and that is something that concerns a lot -- >> as you know, senator bob menendez has been indicted and the new york mayor eric adams just had his phone searched by the fbi. doesn't that undercut the argument that there's a two-tiered system of justice? democrats are being indicted, investigated as well. how can you continue to make that argument? >> i think with the biden family -- >> hunter biden's been indicted, too. >> when you see $10 million go to different llcs, it's really concerning. i always think if this were donald trump jr. getting that money, there would be a big issue. hunter biden received millions from china. >> as you know -- >> thank goodness we have the house. >> let me move on, though, because i know you don't want to get into messaging. but let me ask you big picture. former president trump did raise eyebrows with his veterans day message. he said, quote, in honor of our great veterans on veterans day, we pledge to you that we will root out the communists, marxists, fascists and radical left thugs that lie, steal and cheat on elections and will do everything possible, legally or illegally, to destroy america. are you comfortable with the language coming from the gop front-runner? >> again, i'm not going to comment on candidates and their campaign messaging. i will say this. i know president trump supports the veterans. our whole party supports our veterans. and i do think we're at a very serious moment in our country. the one thing i wish had come out more in our debate is that the rnc and nbc for the first time ever had a jewish co-sponsor for the debate. i am very proud of that history that we created. so thank you for being part of that because this is the time when we met the moment. >> thank you so much for having us. it was an honor to co-moderate that debate and we really appreciate it. ronna mcdaniel, thanks for being here. >> thank you for having me. >> when we come back, why is the maternal mortality rate so high for black women in america? ack a welcome back. turning now to an issue which is important to us on "meet the press." the crisis of black maternity in america. black women have maternal mortality rates roughly three times those of white women in the united states. on "meet the press" reports zinhle essamuah has a report on being pregnant and black in america. >> i think god put you on this earth to do something. i think being a mom is my something. >> reporter: her third time around, kaniah says her delivery experience was good, but it wasn't always this way. >> i've noticed that with having babies, the doctors don't care what will happen to you as a black woman. they weren't talking to me. they were talking amongst themselves like i wasn't in the room and i was the one giving birth. i was just an object, it seemed like. >> what do you think made the difference? >> miss robin, actually, my dula. with her advocating for me and her talking to my doctors, having someone advocate for you when you're in that time when you cannot advocate for yourself means a lot, and i think every black woman should have that. >> you can watch "meet the press reports: pregnant and black, america's maternal health crisis." this is an issue we will continue to stay on top of here at "meet the press." when we come back, congress has less than a week it avoid another government shutdown. is there a plan to avoid it? the panel is next. hi, i'm jason. i've lost 228 pounds on golo. ♪ changing your habits is the only way that gets you to lose the weight. and golo is the plan that's going to help you do that. just take the first step, go to golo.com. c'mon, we're right there. c'mon baby. it's the only we need. go, go, go, go! ah! touchdown baby! -touchdown! are your neighbors watching the same game? yeah, my 5g home internet delays the game a bit. but you get used to it. try these. they're noise cancelling earmuffs. i stole them from an airport. it's always something with you, man. great! solid! -greek salad? exactly! don't delay the game with verizon or t-mobile 5g home internet. catch it on the xfinity 10g network. welcome back. the panel is here. nbc news managing washington editor carol lee. former homeland security secretary jeh johnson. and marc short, former chief of staff to vice president mike pence. thank you for all of you for being here today. carol, let me start with you and set the stage because you have some news that you just reported out moments ago, which is basically that the president's top adviser in the middle east is heading to israel. what do you know? >> that's right, kristen. brett mcgurk, the president's top adviser will go to israel, and his mission is to focus on the release of hostages. he's also going to qatar, which has been key to these negotiations over the release of hostages and they're exploring multiple options, the administration is, and one of those options is securing the release of 80 women and children who are being held hostage and in exchange for that the release of palestinian women and teenagers being held by israel. it's one option. there's no guarantee that any of this is going to succeed, but brett mcgurk is going to travel there to try. this all comes out as this administration is trying to weigh its support with israel, and its growing concerns about how israel is carrying out this war in particular. there are concerns, officials tell me, that is reeling is not doing enough to try to minimize civilian casualties. there are officials that don't believe that israel cares that the israeli government cares, that public opinion is turning against them and it all comes as conversations, i am told, between israeli officials and u.s. officials are getting increasingly testy and at the same time we are told that there's no change in the strategy that the administration will stand with israel and it will continue to give them the support it needs. he's given things like pauses and humanitarian aid. >> such great reporting. and, jeh, it gets me to my next point because you heard prime minister netanyahu's defiance when i pressed him on this, that there are protests all around the world calling for a cease-fire and an end to the civilian deaths. >> if the reporting is to be believed, civilian deaths in gaza are about to become ten times the number of israeli deaths on october 7th. prime minister said that the israeli defense forces are not targeting civilians. of course, they're not targeting civilians. no one believes that they're targeting civilians, however, you can target the enemy, the terrorist, and have a callous disregard for civilian deaths and violate the laws of armed conflict, and that's the rising concern across the globe right now. i give the administration, the biden administration, a lot of credit for firmly standing behind israel right after october 7th, but also publicly and privately warning the government of israel about civilian casualties, about the possibility of a cease-fire, getting humanitarian aid. they're walking a fine line, but i think our government is doing the best it can right now. >> marc, weigh in on this because politically speaking, republicans this week had a debate. they largely stood firmly by israel just as the biden administration has been doing. on capitol hill a battle is playing out about how to get funding for israel. it's not included in this first proposal to keep the government open. how much urgency do you think there is to get something passed on israel aid? >> i think there's urgency, and i think speaker johnson is uniquely positioned right now in a very divided conference to help unite it and get that done. i don't know that i accept the premise, kristen, your question that the house republicans and the people on the stage are in the same position as the biden administration. i do think the biden administration is getting weak-kneed on this, and it's concerning. there's not been an attack in 80 years like this on the israeli people and the concern is about islamophobia. i think the reality is we need to stand with israel right now, and i think that republicans on that stage and the republican members of congress are willing to do that. >> jeh, what's your reaction to what marc just said? >> i agree. i think we need to stand by israel. i see public opinion, political opinion in this country shifting as carol pointed out, and increasingly as the civilian deaths in gaza are highlighted every night on the news and you know, opinion in congress may shift, as well, but this is a very tough situation. >> it sure is, and it's all coming against the backdrop of these election results that we saw on tuesday, carol, and because you never sleep, you have more reporting about all of this as well and the fact that this was a mixed week for democrats. they had wins on tuesday night. on the flip side, they had some poll numbers that were really troubling to them, the fact that biden trails trump in five out of six key battleground states, and senator joe manchin announcing he's not running for re-election. if you look at the battleground map, it shows you how tough it is for democrats to hold onto the senate. there you see ohio, arizona, the toss-ups. what's the strategy that you're hearing within the biden campaign? >> well, first on senator manchin, the white house tried to convince him to run for re-election. obviously, that didn't work. the officials that i've talked to say they don't think that he'll ultimately run third party and they don't really know. he's worried about his legacy and he doesn't want to be seen as electing former president trump and has a good relationship with president biden and wouldn't want to put him in that position. in terms of where the president and his team are after those polls and the election, i am told that the president is feeling really good after that tuesday's election, that he also heard privately from allies of his that he needs to take the fight to former president trump much more directly, and he made a concerted decision to do that at an event with union workers where he went after the president and the former president and said, look, i've been there for you and i hope you remember that, and he also called him out on abortion, and it's increased -- he's increasingly doing that. >> jeh, take us inside what democrats are saying. are alarm bells going off, and is this a shift in strategy? the president will shift to taking on trump. he's in campaign mode despite the fact that the white house said they would wait until the spring? >> first of all, we're a year from the election. i agree with david brooks. polls are where people vent, not where they vote, and you look at history. look where obama was in 2011. you look where barack obama was in 2007, 30 points behind hillary clinton right now. so it's still a long way to go. i do not believe joe manchin is going to be a third-party candidate for president. i don't think he wants to be perceived as the spoiler that hinders -- that hands the election to donald trump. >> yeah. >> it's still a long way. >> marc, what do you make of this moment and what we all witnessed on tuesday night? how much do you think abortion is a motivating factor for the democratic base, and how concerned are republicans about that? >> well, i think the republican party needs pro-life voters, and the reality is the party needs to be the party for life. there's no doubt that right now the left is more energized since the dobbs decision than the right is. i think that's apparent. but i also think that accepting as tim scott said on your debate stage, accepting -- at minimum it says when a baby can feel pain, that's when we'll protect life is generally supported by a majority of americans, and i don't think we've articulated that well. we need to contrast the democrat position which is abortion on demand up until bother which is far in line with north korea and china than the developed world. the position of taking -- limiting abortion once you can begin to feel pain is even to the left of where france and macron is where the limit is 12 to 14 weeks. >> okay, thank you, guys for a investigate conversation. really, really appreciate it. that is all for today. thank you for watching. happy veterans day weekend. thank you to our veterans and families for their service and sacrifice. we will be back next week because if it's sunday, it's "meet the press." do you think it will take months? will it take years? what should people be expecting? >> i don't think it's going to take the time that it took the united states and the