Transcripts For MSNBCW Chris 20240702

good afternoon. i'm chris jansing live from msnbc headquarters in new york city. today another escalation in what is already a brutal 2024 presidential race. this time coming from hunter biden who says the right is trying to kill him in order to destroy his father. that accusation made in a rare interview after prosecutors filed a shocking new indictment. what his lawyer is saying and what this latest round of charges could mean as his dad tries to hold onto the white house. overseas, the u.n. calls the situation in gaza a, quote, spiraling humanitarian nightmare. >> people with open wounds and people stand in line for hours to use one shower or toilets. families who have lost everything sleep on bare concrete floors wearing clothes they have not changed for two month thes. >> the chilling new letter from the leading u.n. official on the ground who says they are, quote, hanging on by their fingertips. and the major controversy that just keeps growing after leaders of some of the country's top universities failed to unequivocally denounce genocide. the now viral video of that heated hearing on capitol hill and the growing calls from some students and top donors for them to step down. all that is coming up. but we begin with a stunning escalation of the legal peril for hunter biden. a brand new indictment in california. the justice department filing nine charges including three felony counts. prosecutors say among other things, the president's son failed to pay taxes, evaded an assessment, and filed a fraudulent form. the indictment also says rather than pay his taxes, hunter biden spent millions of dollars on an extravagant lifestyle that included drugs, escorts, luxury hotels, exotic cars and clothing. if convicted, he could face a maximum of 17 years in prison. the charges were brought by special counsel david weiss who has been overseeing the federal investigation into hunter biden. this is the second indictment against the president's son in just a matter of months. he's also facing federal charges of being in possession of a firearm while using narcotics. he pled not guilty in that case. his lawyer said in a statement, if hunter's last name was anything oerhan biden, the charges in delaware and now california would not have been brought, and this is hunter biden himself on a podcast. >> they're trying to destroy a presidency. and so it's not about me. in their most base way, what they're trying to do is they're trying to kill me, knowing that it will be a pain greater than my father could be able to handle, and so therefore destroying a presidency in that way. >> the white house has declined to comment, but it does raise the possibility of two trials while his dad is running for re-election. i want to bring in jonathan lemire, host of msnbc's way too early, "politico" white house bureau chief and an msnbc political analyst, barbara mcquade is here as well, former u.s. attorney university of michigan law professor, and msnbc legal analyst, and with me here on set, tom winter following this story very closely for us as you have been throughout. tell us more about these new charges, tom. >> right, so folks over the summer will remember they were supposedd to have a plea of guilty on these specific charges. that was going to be for two years and two misdemeanor counts. what's changed here, chris, is prosecutors are not only just saying, hey, look, there's a failure to file your taxes here, which is something that hunter biden has talked about and was ready to admit in open court. they take it a step further, and the justice department alleges not only did he file his taxes on time, but he too willful steps to evade paying the taxes that were due to the united states. that's where you start to see the crux of these allegations and the weight of these allegations which could lead to potential jail time for the son of the president. what they talk about is in certain years he was categorizing expenses that were, in fact, things that he was using for his own personal expenses. you can write down business expenses. you can deduct those from the taxes that you might pay for a business that you own. the problem is if those business expenses are, in fact, personal expenses, going to very deep detail in this indictment, talking about in one particular instance he was saying something was a golf club membership, when in fact it was a membership for a sex club. they use that to point to his willfulness in the conduct of these allegations, which of course is something that they don't -- they deny effectively. >> so barbara, when you look at that differentiation that tom just talked about from what was original and what is now, talk about the legal significance of that. >> yes, as tom said, this isn't simply failure to pay anymore. this is willful engaging in efforts to evade the payment of taxes. it includes fraud allegations and so that really takes it into a different category. also, the amount alleged here, when he was looking at misdemeanors, they said that the amount was something like $100,000 in unpaid taxes, we're now up to $1.4 million in unpaid taxes. and so i think he gambled when he decided to back out of that plea deal. there was no meeting of the minds, which is what the judge found, because there was the possibility of charges being brought later on down the road. but the consequence is, as is usually the case, it gets worse, and so those are the allegations that we are seeing here. i think one thing that's important, though, is what is in this indictment and what is not. there are some very egregious allegations about willful failure to pay taxes, no doubt. we aren't seeing anything about acting as a foreign agent of the government of china, or acting as a foreign agent of the government of ukraine. he's already paid back the taxes and the penalties, and so it would seem to me that it might be in his best interest to enter a quick guilty plea and move on and get this off the political stage. >> what are the chances that his lawyers are successful in doing what abby lowell has suggested, which is argue that the immunity provisions from his own plea deal remain in force since that part of the agreement was signed by a prosecutor. what are the chances that that happens? >> i don't think it's likely to succeed. it's an argument. he's made it, he's likely to make it in court, but the agreement that they had contemplated required acceptance by the court, and once the court refused to accept it, all the parties stepped away from this plea. if you wanted to go back and enforce it it could include that provision that charges could be brought in the future. i think that's the part he balked at with the possibility of a future trump administration bringing these charges again. >> so in lieu of that, what do you think the chances are based on your appearance and your knowledge, barbara, that there could be more conversations that reopen about some sort of plea deal, that this never actually goes to trial. >> i think it's highly likely. this happens from time to time. you know, parties try to work out a resolution. they think they've got one, and it stalls for whatever reason, and then usually the situation for the defendant gets worse. the value of plea deal is for the prosecution to go lenient, pull something back in exchange for that plea of guilty. now that we've seen this indictment filed and we see these additional consequences for hunter biden, if he goes to trial and is convicted, then i think it is in his best interests to negotiate a plea of guilty perhaps to one count instead of nine counts and acceptance of responsibility. he's already paid back the taxes, and so i don't think these charges bring -- you know, the statutory penalties are enormous. in truth, tax bases usually result in sentences of a year or less, so perhaps there is room for negotiation of even a plea without any prison time. >> tom, help us look back so that we can look forward. was the relationship that frayed and that's using a kind word, right? between the two sides that resulted in the other case plea deal. >> from july. >> yeah, from july going away. could it carry over or do you think knowing what happened there there is still a chance that they'll recognize that maybe one way to do this is to settle. that's the best possible outcome they're going to get. i know you can't read minds, but what's your knowledge of if i buy -- >> i think we have some reporting from our colleague sarah fitzpatrick who obtained a letter last night that was sent back and forth between abby lowell and the prosecutors who brought this indictment. and basically saying, look, you know, we want to engage with you. we want to have another discussion with you. we want to talk about these tax charges. by the way, it's a unique thing about tax charges in cases according to legal expert, and certainly barb can speak to this. you do have the opportunity to appeal to the department of justice to explain what was going on in your tax case. it's a bit unusual when it comes to some of these counts. effectively prosecutors saying you already had your chance. we spoke with you back in the spring. we had a long negotiation. we're not engaging with you again even if you have a new attorney, in this case abby lowell this time around. so it's very clear already that they were not interested in further discussions, that they were going to bring this indictment. we have no indication that the biden team was given any sort of heads-up. i'm not talking about the white house speaking specifically to hunter biden. no indication that they had any sort of a heads-up that this was coming. i think they learned about it from reporters. the white house says they were not told in advance as well, so i don't know how strong that relationship is to your question, chris, and i don't know if there's going to be a real -- you know what, let's all get together and work this out because i think they feel like they've been down that path before. so what will ultimately happen here, i think, still remains very much a question. and of course you have to look at -- looking at the indictment, the types of witnesses that could be called, the types of things that could come out in a trial that might be personally embarrassing to hunter biden, at a very dark and difficult time in his life, how that could impact a presidential election should that trial occur during the next year i think is something that will be cons as ll. >> which brings me to you, jonathan. this indictment lays out a split screen. prosecutors say they trace money that hunter biden took from his own company, 1.6 plus million in atm withdrawal aost 690,000 in payments to various women, almost 400,000 in clothing and accessories, 189,000 almost in adult entertainment. 214,000 plus restaurants and groceries, all while not paying his taxes they claim. president biden is not so much is mentioned in the indictment, but is there a condition in biden world that it could hurt him with voters? obviously democrats would prefer to draw attention to trump and his trials, not to hunter biden trials. >> there is far more concern about the weight it will have on joe biden the man, the father than it is joe biden the candidate running for re-election according to those in his inner circle. most in the biden campaign and white house don't think this will move the needle very much. there's no allegation here either in these criminal charges or in the investigation that the house republicans are conducting. there's been no evidence whatsoever that joe biden was involved with any of his son's alleged wrongdoing, and also to the point mentioned, this is narrow charges about taxes. it has nothing to do with some of the more outlandish claims of republicans who have yet to prove anything about hunter biden. it's clear what the republicans are trying to do here. they're trying to create a false equivalency between legal trouble with people of the last name biden and people with the last name trump. donald trump himself has been indicted 91 times. he is running for re-election. hunter biden's name is not appearing on any ballot. those close to the president believe that frankly some americans will be sympathetic, that they themselves have people in their lives who have struggled with addiction as hunter biden has so powerfully written that he has done, and we see how joe biden loves him. that is certainly, though, there are those close to the president who do worry about the toll this is going to take, the worry he's going to have about his son potentially going to trial or potentially pleading guilty and facing prison time, especially as he embarks on a gruelin campaign. >> a distraction to say the least for any loving parent. so jonathan, speaking of no evidence, the house ways and means committee chair jason smith said these new charges, quote, further confirm the need for congress to move forward with an impeachment inquiry of joe biden in order to uncover all the facts for the american people to judge. but i wonder, does this latest indictment work against republicans' argument that biden is corrupting the doj for his own benefit? >> no, i mean, that's certainly a bad faith argument from the congressman. we've heard these claims from other republicans before, upset that hunter biden wasn't being charged with more extensive crimes and pointing to that as evidence of some sort of cover-up ordered by either merrick garland or the president himself. i think we can look at it the other way. this president has said from the beginning he would not interfere with doj. could you imagine his predecessor donald trump standing idly by if donald trump jr. was charged even with some sort of track crime while donald trump sr. was in office, i highly doubt it. i think these arguments republicans are making are not going to carry much in the way of water, and we're going to hear, we believe as soon as next week, that they're going to officially vote to open up an impeachment inquiry. speaker johnson thinks they have the vote to do that. we don't even know that there will be enough votes to impeach president biden. heading down this path, i will simply say, some mainstream republicans have said to me in the last couple of days, they're really worried about this. we have seen other occasions where presidents' poll numbers go up after impeachment, certainly most famously bill clinton, but even donald trump's first impeachment, the one about ukraine, his numbers went up slightly afterwards. so this has a real chance to backfire on republicans in 2024. >> tom winter and barbara mcquade, thank you both, and jonathan, you're going to stick around for a bit. the united nations is making moves not seen in decades, and the secretary general is now pushing for a cease fire in gaza. warning of impending humanitarian catastrophe. we'll explain when we're back 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(avo) this holiday turn any samsung phone, in any condition, into a galaxy s23+ on us. and now add netflix and max to your plan for just $10 a month. only on verizon. inside gaza this morning, more signs of the horrors of an escalating war, among the many stories we're learning about today, that of a 13-year-old girl who lost her leg and 15 members of her family as well, including her parents and siblings. her aunt who now watches over her tells nbc news we try as much as possible not to talk about her father, but when we talk about her father, she loses consciousness, feels like a hopeless situation and screams. no matter what we do, it will never be possible to replace the presence of the mother and father. and just today in gaza, a huge explosion and large plumes of smoke were seen. the top u.n. humanitarian official says the plan to provide critical aid to civilians is in tatters. the u.n. security council is meeting today on a resolution calling for an immediate cease fire. already, the secretary general invoked article 99. that hasn't been used in half a century, but it allows him to call for a vote on any matter he believes threatens world peace and security. nbc's challah gor ra knee reports from tel aviv. gaza is on the blink of a full-blown collapse. what can you tell us from on the ground? >> reporter: we're hearing from thomas white who is with the u.n. relief agency inside of gaza who was saying essentially after dark the streets feel wild, that the whole gaza strip is on the blink of a full-blown collapse. as you mentioned, the u.n. is calling for a cease fire. this is a resolution introduced by the united arab emirates, but as a permanent member of the u.n. security council, the united states is expected to veto that. with that veto, the u.n. will not adopt that resolution. that is certainly the expectation. as far as the situation on the ground as we've been reporting, over 2 million people crowded into an ever shrinking strip of the gaza strip in the south, and those people who have moved to the south where they were told to go for shelter, for safety, oftentimes in this u.n. relief agency school system as well, they say they're being targeted by air strikes in that part of the gaza strip as well leading many to say nowhere is safe for them. some of the air strikes have hit rafah, so close to the egyptian border. that is the crossing that was used to release those initial waves of israeli and dual national hostages you might remember. so it is very, very deep into the southern part of the gaza strip. there is really no infrastructure to support any kind of life in the north, and as far as the medical system in the south, it is really at breaking point, people with just ordinary illnesses that are becoming chronic in some cases, whether they're digestive or skin conditions or diabetes or cancer patients are just not able to access basic health care, chris. >> nbc's hala gorani, thank you. i wanted to bring in ambassador elon pin kus, also with us is jonathan lemire. mr. ambassador, secretary of state antony blinken said there is a gap between what israel agreed to do in its military operations, which is prioritize reducing non-combatant casualties and the actual results we're seeing on the ground. is he right? >> yeah, he is right. i mean, secretary blinken, chris, in diplo english, or american diplomatic jargon basically said israel is losing credibility in terms of the promises they made to us, the pledges they have made, and not keeping them. and this pertains both to the management of the war, but also when we discussed this in a previous show of yours, also it pertains to the so-called post-war gaza day after, both euphemisms. the secretary is just one of three american officials. before hand secretary of defense lloyd austin who warned israel it's turning a tactical win into a strategic failure. and then came last week, last saturday, vice president kamala harris who outlined or sketched out a day after american idea, framework. it's not a plan but a framework, which israel dismissed and derided offhandedly. yeah, the secretary is right. >> the u.n. is warning of that humanitarian collapse in gaza, and you heard what hala just reported that there's no infrastructure to support life in the north, that the medical system is close to collapse, if not collapsed in the south. there's a particularly heart wrenching example with former hostages and their families of hostages meeting with prime minister netanyahu and the war cabinet yelling shame over reports that the military is considering flooding hamas tunnels with sea water where at least one of the released hostages and, again, other family members believe their loved ones are being held. do you believe israel is willing to pay the price of hostages' lives if it kills hamas leadership? >> yeah. i mean, i say it casually, but i don't mean it casually, chris. but i think that in terms of how this war is being prosecuted, mr. netanyahu is desperately looking for some kind of a win, some kind of a picture that would signal that he won the war, that israel won the war. that's probably not attainable, so in terms of the tradeoff, will he be willing to sacrifice lives of hostages to get to hamas leaders, my -- i know it sounds crude and cruel and insen sensitive, but the answer is yes. >> what can be done with the remaining hostages to get them out of gaza? >> well, i don't know if it's been proposed yet because i'm not privy to those negotiations, but there is -- you know, there is the possibility that israel lays forth the following. every palestinian -- every hamas palestinian prisoner, and removal of hamas from the government in gaza. you know, it sounds easier said than done on your show, but you asked how these hostages can be rescued and eventually released. that's the way to do it, to offer a grand deal of everything in exchange for everything. i think the u.s., even though the u.n. -- the u.s. ambassador to the u.n. today said that the u.s. does not support a cease fire and indeed your correspondent indicated that it would veto such a resolution, but i think at some point in the next two, three weeks, the u.s., the biden administration will weigh this option as a way out. because at this point, chris, israeli and american clocks in terms of the war's management and that so-called day after are not synchronized at all, and in fact, they're in different time zones right now. >> so jonathan, given all that, where does this leave this relationship between the u.s. and israel? tell us what you've learned about the growing rift between these two long-time allies over how this war is being conducted and particularly in light of secretary blinken's comments. >> yeah, we'll start by underscoring that of course publicly the united states is still backing israel. there's no doubt about that, and they're still defending israel's right to strike back after the october 7th attacks. but the rift between these two nations is absolutely growing. there has been tension behind the scenes for a while. we're now seeing it spill out into the open. what we are -- it's on a couple of different levels, and as secretary blinken said, there's grave concern in the united states government about israel, what they perceive as israel's lack of concern for civilian casualties. the numbers being put out by the gaza health ministry which is run by hamas, can't be totally taken at face value, a number of independent groups says they believe the accounts are fairly accurate, and they believe the numbers are very high, even if not as high as the health ministry suggests. a lot of these dead are children. there's real concern for the day after the war. netanyahu in recent days said the idf would have a presence there. and on "morning joe" today we pressed a spokesperson for the prime minister about that very idea knowing that the united states has very clearly said they don't support that and she sort of dodged it and said, well, that's what we believe needs to be done right now to eliminate this threat. by doing so, u.s. officials tell me when the actual shooting war ends but israel with their military remains in gaza, all that's going to do is further radicalize the population there and probably create more terrorists. there's deep concern here, and certainly the u.s. is not at the point where it's going to sever relations or even so far put conditions on aid to israel, but the tension is growing, and we know certainly behind the scenes, president biden no fan of prime minister netanyahu. >> jonathan lemire, ambassador ilon pinkas, thank you both so much. senators on both side of the aisle are back at the negotiating table today, hashing out the future of funding for israel and ukraine, but a top republican senator says one more person needs to show up to strike a deal. >> we're going to have to get the president of the united states involved. e president of states involved. get the bank of america customized cash rewards card, choose the online shopping category and earn 3% cash back. (husband) ♪ hey there family! while you're shopping, ♪ choose the online shopping category ♪ get me a 5g phone, it's on my list. ♪ (wife) instead of doing all of this a better plan is to switch to verizon. (avo) this holiday turn any samsung phone, in any condition, into a galaxy s23+ on us. and now add netflix and max to your plan for just $10 a month. only on verizon. (carolers) ♪ iphone 15 pro, your husband deserves it! ♪ (mom) carolers? to tell me you want a new iphone? a better plan is verizon. (vo) for a limited time, turn any iphone in any condition into a new iphone 15 pro with titanium and ipad and apple watch se - all on us. only on verizon. 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great in my book. who are you? no power? no problem. introducing storm-ready wifi. now you can stay reliably connected through power outages with unlimited cellular data and up to 4 hours of battery back-up. plus, now through december 31st, eligible xfinity rewards members can get 25% off a storm ready wifi device. talks are expected to continue through the weekend on a deal that would deliver critical aid for ukraine and israel, but still, standing in the way finding a compromise on the border. nbc news reports that democratic senator chris murphy and his republican colleague, james lankford, met yesterday in the basement hideaway office of independent senator kyrsten sinema who's also involved in this effort. nbc's julie tsirkin is on capitol hill for us. former republican congressman carlos curbelo is an msnbc political analyst. so julie, what do we know? what's the latest on these talks? >> reporter: well, we know that republicans have given another offer to their democratic negotiators including independent senator kyrsten sinema yesterday. we also know that that offer was tepidly received. chris murphy left the meeting with a sour look on his face. again, we don't know the concrete details of what's in this offer yet, it's something we're talking to sources about and trying to nail down. the bottom line here is it still appears according to conversations i've had, that this is still going a step too far in a direction the democrats and the house and senate might not be willing to accept. and of course then you have the dynamics of the republican-controlled house, a very slim majority for speaker mike johnson and growing slimmer by the minute with mccarthy, the former speaker set to depart. is that something that is even going to be put on the house floor. all the while, you have republicans in the senate, including senator lindsey graham who for the first time that i've talked to him in the last few months told me this week that he considers the u.s. southern border to be more of a front and center issue than he does aid to ukraine. take a listen to what he said yesterday. >> bottom line is we're urging the president to get involved and fix this problem. senator murphy's a fine fella, but it's never going to happen as long as senator schumer is in charge of these negotiations. we're going to have to get the president of the united states involved. he owes it to the american people to fix a broken border. and when i say broken, what do i mean? i mean really broken. >> reporter: so democrats involved in these negotiations, chris, do tell me that the white house has been involved, staff at least have been kept apprised of any kind of movements, any paper trading back and forth, but the clock is really ticking. they're set to leave next week. they could potentially, of course, extend that time line, but certainly not a lot of time to get all of this done. and remember, if they don't get something passed by the end of this year, it will be a lot hard tore get aid for ukraine, aid to israel fixed, all of these priorities in the new year and in an election year. >> okay, carlos, what needs to happen to get these talks going and the deal done? >> well, chris, probably a major point of contention between republicans and democrats is asylum laws. republicans for years have been wanting to tighten asylum laws making it harder for people who show up at our southwest border or any border to make a claim that gives them the right to remain in the country while their asylum request is reviewed. republicans view this as a loophole in the law. however, immigration activists consider this an important component of element of u.s. immigration, also democrats are going to find it difficult to compromise on that question. however, given how high profile this border issue has become and given the fact that it isn't an issue where president biden does very well in polling, i do think democrats are looking to give republicans something. it will depend on how far they're willing to go, whether or not we get a deal. >> so here's what punch bowl writes, carlos. there's o wk left until the house and senate are scheduled to recess if the year and the list of legislative items left undone, half done, or in limbo is unusually long and incredibly consequential. in other words, congress is getting very good at being very bad. they say, punch bowl's words, this could be the do nothingest congress the hill has ever seen. but seriously, with so much serious work to do, explain why speaker johnson would not keep his members working rather than sending them home? you know how this works. you lived it. >> well, speaker johnson on the one hand is tired of having to pull bills from the house floor because there isn't consensus among house republicans to move legislation forward. so that's why the speaker kicked the can down the road, put forward this two-pronged -- or this continuing resolution with two different deadlines. at some point, chris, the clock is going to run out, and republicans are going to have to get together and decide a way forward. and certainly when you compare this congress to the last congress, a congress where both chambers were controlled by very thin margins as well, this congress has been far less productive. obviously a major factor in all of that, was all of this republican infighting that brought the house to complete paralysis for a few weeks there as they settled on a new speaker. >> julie tsirkin, thank you as always. former congressman curbelo, you're going to stay with us. after the break, anti-semitism on college campuses, putting new pressure on some of the country's top educators with major donors flexing their financial influence, will someone be pushed out of the job. you're watching "chris jansing reports" only on msnbc. you're watching "chris jansing reports" only on msnbc and ipad and apple watch se - all on us. only on verizon. have fun, sis! ♪♪ can't stop adding stuff to your cart? 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(vo) for a limited time, turn any iphone in any condition into a new iphone 15 pro with titanium and ipad and apple watch se - all on us. only on verizon. today there is ongoing backlash against the presidents of harvard, m.i.t. and the universal of pennsylvania. their refusal to denounce genocide on capitol hill tuesday has some major donors pulling back, and there are demands for those presidents to resign as well as plans for a congressional investigation. nbc's stephanie gosk joins me now for the latest on this. stephanie. >> tensions are still rising across the country during the israel-hamas war including on college campuses. law enforcement nationwide have been tracking an uptick in threats, and last night, an alarming scene at a synagogue in new york. shots fired on the first night of hanukkah. just hours before the start of hanukkah, at least two shots fired outside a temple in albany, new york, yesterday. while two dozen preschool, were at the synagogue, none were injured. police arresting 28-year-old mu feed al cotter and charging him with illegal possession of a firearm, the case also being investigated as a potential hate crime. >> we were told by responding officers that he made a comment, free palestine. >> reporter: jewish students on college campuses also concerned for their safety. at the university of pennsylvania, president liz magill is under fire following her comments at this week's anti-semitism hearing on capitol hill where she and the presidents of harvard and m.i.t. testified for hours, each condemning anti-semitism while attempting to embrace the importance of free speech. but it was exchanges with new york congresswoman elise stefanik that triggered widespread criticism. >> i am asking specifically calling for the genocide of jews, does that constitute bullying or harassment? >> if the speech becomes conduct, it can be harassment, yes. >> conduct meaning committing the act of genocide? the answer is yes. calling for the genocide of jews violates harvard code of conduct, correct? >> again, it depends on the context. >> it does not depend on the context. >> the white house weighing in after the hearing, we should all stand firmly against calls for genocide. the governor of pennsylvania, a democrat who is also jewish, taking aim at penn's president. >> leaders have a responsibility to speak and act with moral clarity and liz magill failed to meet that simple test. >> reporter: president magill attempting to clarify her comments. >> that a call for genocide of jewish people is a call for some of the most terrible violence human beings can perpetrate. it's evil, plain and simple. >> reporter: harvard's president also writing calls for genocide of any group are vile, adding they have no place at harvard. magill says penn would immediately examine and clarify its policies regarding speech, but the school is now also facing a major financial hit with a wealthy donor threatening to withdraw a $100 million donation calling on the school to replace president magill. a university spokesperson tells nbc news the board of trustees has no plans to change leadership, but overnight, the board of the influential wharton school of business called on her to step down. back to you. >> stephanie, thank you for that. >> i want to bring back former congressman carlos curbelo. so look, do you think, first of all, that there is reason for concern here or as some people have suggested, even those who do not defend the things were said or the answers that were given by these college presidents, there's been a suggestion that they were essentially set up, that the idea was to put them in a difficult place to have to choose between free speech and what crosses that line. >> chris, it's probably true that they were set up, but they should have been ready for it. i mean, here at the networks of nbc news especially, we all understand the importance of communication, and if you're in a leadership role, it's important that you be prepared and that you communicate clearly. of course any -- institution of higher learning has to stand up for free speech. you can do that while at the same time condemning any calls for genocide or for the systematic killing of any group. i mean, this is what these presidents ended up doing anyway the day after. however, that tape is there. it's extremely damaging. congresswoman stefanik was very opportunistic about pinning down all of these presidents. it sounded like they were all reading off the same script, so it really did make them look bad, and for the average american, you know, this legalese that they tried to speak in, it just sows a lot of distrust, a lot of resentment and really puts institutions of higher learning in a tough place, a cohort that has been under the microscope for many years now for tuition increases and all sorts of other controversies. >> should this lead to further congressional investigation as is already being planned? >> well, i think congress does need to figure out what the role of federal dollars may play in advancing any kinds of these policies that don't allow university presidents to explicitly condemn something like genocide. i have a feeling that this is going to get cleaned up real quick and that these universities are going to address this by changing their codes of conduct or changing their policies to leave it clear that they would never condone or in any way tolerate any calls for genocide or of the killing of any specific racial or ethnic group. >> former congressman carlos curbelo, we appreciate you sticking around. thank you. and we're going to continue this conversation in the next hour of "chris jansing reports" with avi balsam a leading member of hillel house, what life has been like for jewish students on that campus. sweeping storms burying parts of the sierras and now barrelling towards the plains. our meteorologist is standing by, in fact, i can see him right there. you're watching "chris jansing reports" only on msnbc. and ipad and apple watch se - all on us. only on verizon. have fun, sis! ♪♪ can't stop adding stuff to your cart? 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(avo) this holiday turn any samsung phone, in any condition, into a galaxy s23+ on us. and now add netflix and max to your plan for just $10 a month. only on verizon. relentless winter weather continues in the west with storms headed for the central u.s. and the entire east coast this weekend. expected to bring torrents of rain, wind and snow. winter alerts are in effect in at least four western states, and we're seeing continued snowfall in northern california. this is a look at a frosty highway in sierra. it's making for dangerous driving, very little visibility in some areas. meantime in new england, the national weather service warns of a roller coaster ride of weather with the worst conditions expected on sunday. the new storm system coming just days after record floods submerge massive swaths of the pacific northwest, demolishing livelihoods. >> as you can see everything is destroyed. i put a lot of time and effort into this. it took one thing to take it all away. >> nbc meteorologist bill cairns is with me. people are starting holiday parties, shopping! only two weekends left before christmas. >> i didn't need to know that. >> a lot of people with a lot of big long to do list this is weekend, and the least thing you need to do is worry about the weather. you're going to want to time this out. especially if you have travel plans. we're going to have a lot of issues with the airlines. light snow in colorado, a little bit of snow in bismarck and north dakota, but this storm will grow in intensity all weekend long. so we'll start late tonight. we will get some showers and thunderstorms near columbia, heading up into areas just south of the quad cities, but then again, not a huge ordeal. tomorrow, the storm taps the moisture out of the gulf of mexico, and this is when it kind of explodes. i paused this at 5:00 p.m. tomorrow. these are thunderstorms on the line. we have the warm air ahead of it. cold air, classic severe weather, especially for damaging wind. we may even get small hail and isolated tornadoes. this area of concern is from shreveport, alexandria to monroe. those are the areas with a chance for severe weather, isolated power outages. we'll cross our fingers if tornados do form, they don't hit anyone. notice how much it grows in intensity here. this is 5:00 p.m. on sunday. there's a lot going on sunday, a lot of nfl games are going to look windy and wild. rain going over to snow on the backside, and pittsburgh and eerie, and buffalo, throughout the appalachians. any flights late sunday night throughout the overnight are going to be difficult. 40 to 60 miles per hour gusts here. this is 8:00 a.m. monday. not fun in boston or in maine, and then a burst of heavy snow from the capital district northwards and back towards syracuse. here's what it all means. a lot of rain. i don't think we're going to get a lot of damage like we do in the northwest. you have to time out the rain to avoid the 1 to 3 inches. as far as the wind gusts go, long island, areas in the cape and the islands, there is a chance that you could have isolated power outages. we get the wind gusts in the cape, 64. a little shoveling to be done, and the appalachians from scranton to syracuse, adirondacks, too, it's a lot. i don't think we're going to be talking damage come sunday. but a lot of people will be complaining. >> when aren't we all complaining. thank you so much. we've got some major news for the 100,000 americans living with sickle cell disease, the majority of whom are black. in a ground breaking decision, the fda has just approved the first u.s. treatment using a gene editing tool that modifies dna eliminating the need for a risky bone marrow transplant. the cure for the blood disorder is extremely expensive. it could cost $2 million for each patient. doctors are calling it a game changer for patients. we've got a new look into the suspected campus shooter in las vegas, through the eyes of his former students. you're watching "chris jansing reports" only on msnbc. reports"c phone, in any condition, into a galaxy s23+ on us. and now add netflix and max to your plan for just $10 a month. only on verizon. have fun, sis! ♪♪ can't stop adding stuff to your cart? 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(husband) ♪ hey there family! while you're shopping, ♪ choose the online shopping category ♪ get me a 5g phone, it's on my list. ♪ (wife) instead of doing all of this a better plan is to switch to verizon. (avo) this holiday turn any samsung phone, in any condition, into a galaxy s23+ on us. and now add netflix and max to your plan for just $10 a month. (car engine revs) only on verizon. (engine accelerating) (texting clicks) (tires squeal) (glass shattering) (loose gravel clanking) first time i connected with kim, she told me that her husband had passed. and that he took care of all of the internet connected devices in the home. i told her, “i'm here to take care of you.” connecting with kim... made me reconnect with my mom. it's very important to keep loved ones close. we know that creating memories with loved ones brings so much joy to your life. a family trip to the team usa training facility. i don't know how to thank you. i'm here to thank you. it's good to be back with you on this second hour of "chris jansing reports." at this hour, hunter biden indicted again. the president's son accused of spending millions on drugs,

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