Transcripts For CNNW Piers Morgan Tonight 20120324

her with his idea of a stimulus package. >> gloria allred opens up as ever before. >> i'm intrigued by you. i'm someone who watches your show almost every night. >> passion for woman's rights. >> it matters if any man hurts any woman. >> a daughter, lisa bloom. >> my mother is brilliant and passionate and tenacious. >> and the moment i never saw coming. >> i have a little gift for you. it is a subpoena. this is from your audience. whom i'm representing. it's you to, piers morgan. i want you to tell us under oath how many times you have been properly in love, under oath. >> i'm not accepting that. >> "piers morgan tonight" starts now. >> one woman strikes fear into the hearts of powerful men from herman cain to tiger woods. if you have a secret to keep, do you not want to hear that gloria a allred is on the case. she is the most famous female attorney in the country. what matters to her most is her crusade against victim rights. i was trying to think of the last time you actually sat to do an interview by yourself and not one of your clients. when was it? >> just like this? never. >> really? >> yes. >> why are you doing this? >> well, you invited me. and i'm intrigued by you. and i'm someone who watches your show almost every night. and i'm just in treeinged and also, of course, it's an opportunity to talk about empowering women, empowering minorities and the fact that we still have not won complete equality in this country. >> here's the fascinating thing about you. i've been immersed in all things gloria allred. i knew you'd be a tricky one to interview. you are remotely sensitive about your life. we'll come to those juicy little bits in a minute. there are two gloria allreds. you argued for people with aids who have been let go from jobs. you won a settlement against holocaust deniers on behalf of a survivor of auschwitz. you chipped away at the l.a. district attorney to the endorsed a program to collect from deadbeat dads and so on. all of these incredibly important ground breaking, courageous actions that you've fought that are absolutely in keeping with the positioning of gloria allred as this crusading campaigning attorney. then there is the other side. which is, i don't know, some would argue more trivial. in 1980, you went off to the nudists colony. challenging men for love making classes than women. and you raged a public campaign against madonna claiming she record a pro-choice song to make amends for papa don't preach? >> i'm the gloria allred who is an attorney and part of our law firm. i've been practicing law for 36 years. we are a civil rights law firm. we have won more women's rights cases and civil rights cases than any other private law firm in the nation. we won over $250 million for victims just in the last ten years alone. and we believe that women and minorities are entitled to equality, to liberty, to freedom, and to dignity. to equal rights in every way. and you take that yellow balloon case, for example, piers, that you just mentioned. that was a form of economic equality. for a little girls to be charged more for their haircuts than little boys and in that case we represented a sister and a brother. and that was a case of economic inequality because it took the same level of education and experience and time, we alleged, to cut that little girl's hair as did it to cut the little boy's hair. and, therefore, they should have not had separate pricing for little girls and little boys. >> do you believe that men and women should be absolutely equal in everything? >> i do believe that under the law, under the constitution of the united states and under our public policy that women deserve and should have a right to enjoy equal employment opportunity. >> i agree with a lot of what you've done. i agree with 90% of what you've done. some of the more trivial ones make me laugh. i get that. >> i don't agree with your assumption. >> really? >> what we do -- >> do you ever do anything for pub list i >> we do cases of public interest and importance. we believe that women who are discriminated against and minorities, for example, people who are gay, people who are lesbian, people who are trans gender or bisexual. minorities who have been discriminated against, racial minorities, they should have a voice. >> i agree with that. >> that their cases matter. >> how does equality go? if a man is able to do it -- i'm not saying i agree with you. i'm throwing it out there. if a man is able to do something better than a woman, should he be entitled to be paid more money or should there be equality because simply because a woman may not have the power of a man to play to that ability? >> it really depends on the particular facts. >> i have 80% female staff, for example. >> but, of course, it's better than it used to be. but, you know, often people who are conservative -- i'm not saying you're one of them -- will look back and say it's better. i'm saying some people are concerned and they'll say it's better than it used to be. well, yes. but i look forward. have we achieved equality under the law? the answer is clearly no. and i want our daughters to enjoy equal rights under the law. i don't want them to be sexually harassed on the job. and we have done many cases where women have been sexually harassed. >> do you feel there is a grief for men who get treated badly by women bosses? do you feel angry for the men or all women against men? >> actually, we have had a number of cases where we represent men who have been discriminate the against in employment on account of their gender. but we've had those cases in the past. i objected many years ago this was a well known case towards the beginning of my career, when there was a commission on the statous of women created in santa monica and they excluded men from being able to participate. and i went before the court and i argued that that was discrimination against men. that men have a stake in the equality for women. and that men should not be excluded from that conversation and especially not from a governmental entity that was going to opine about that. >> does it worry you that for all the very good cases you fight, where there is clear evidence of discrimination or harassment, does it worry you that you single-handedly created an atmosphere, a culture perhaps where people who want to try it on and who want to make a few quick bucks by claiming discrimination and harassment can now do that because of this atmosphere that you have helped propagate? does that worry you? >> not at all. because we are a plaintiff law firm. we screen our cases very, very carefully. we make sure we have the facts. we investigated the facts. and, you know, we can only take a small number of all of the case that's people ask us to take. so, no. the weak cases we are not taking. but i'm happy when women who believe they have been discriminated against on the account of their gender seek the advice of any attorney whether it's myself or anyone else in the country. and say i feel that i've been discriminated against on the job or sexually harassed s there something i can do about it? do i have a strong enough case? i don't want them to judge that themselves. we act like private attorney generals. in enforcing the rights. and we look forward to women standing up and asserting their rights and protecting their rights and vindicating their rights in a court of law. we're very proud of those women who have the courage to do so. >> and snmen? >> and men as well. >> we're going to take a break and then get into the high profile cases you take on. you seem to be popping up with all of them. one of the more predictable elements of any scandal is you and that little red top of yours. 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>> i like empowering my clients. i like providing them with a voice that they otherwise might not have. because i think they matter. the typical person matters. not just celebrities in our culture matter. and this is what we do. we go up against the rich, the powerful, the famous, big corporations, government, celebrities, batterers, wrong doers, killers. wrong doers of all kind, sexual harassment and we allow that individual person to fight that, i'll call it a david and goliath battle and often win. and, yes, people say oh, my god. how could you go up against them? i mean these celebrities often they have their entourages and they have their pr people and army of lawyers and their managers and everybody else. who does that individual person have? they have us. and they get to have a voice. >> roman paul an ski, that i get. there you have serious allegations of serious sexual misconduct. tiger woods is an interesting case to me. because he's a golfer. what really is the public interest in exposing tiger woods when it comes down to, yes, there is the role model argument and making money from whoever. but actually does it matter what tiger woods does in his private life? why did you feel compelled to expose him? >> well, it matters if any man hurts any woman. and in the case of jocelyn james whom i represented, she was hurt. she was deceived. she was lied to. and he never even offered her an apology. they had a -- she was an adult film star, yes. >> and she went on to make an adult movie based on tiger woods' text messages. >> well, you know, she has a right to have a career. >> but how -- >> let me just say, he asked her to give up her career because he was jealous she would be with anyone else. she did at great economic sacrifice to herself. >> yes. >> and then -- >> she doesn't seem to be -- >> yes, she had to go and make a living. >> she went and made a porn movie starring tiger woods' text messages. how hurt could she have been? >> those of us who lead a more privileged life and able to make a very nice living the way you are and the way i am, i don't think we should look down our nose at other people who have to make difficult choices about how they make a living. it's'for me to sit here and judge or second guess how anybody makes a living. i'm so glad that anyone is able to work. >> rewind. i wasn't making any moral judgment about her career. she's perfectly entitled to be in the entertainment industry. my point is how hurt could she have been by tiger woods if she then just the moment i was over went out and made loads of money making porn movies starring his text messages? it seemed to me she is one of the cases where you were at your weakest and you had so many where you've been very strong. i just wonder sometimes when you watch what she did afterwards, do you slightly sit back and go, maybe i shouldn't have left that one alone? >> not at all. >> really? >> no. you know, i'm not a politician that sits there and puts my finger in the wind and sees which way it's blowing. i'm going to stand up for women. i stood up for women that are adult film stories, judges, secretaries, factory workers, farmworkers. you name it, we've had it just about. and i -- >> do you ever regret afterwards taking cases because of the way that perhaps the person you had been defending or prosecuting on behalf of because of their behavior afterwards? do you have moments of self reflection after? >> no, i'm so proud of my clients and the courage they've shown. you have no idea. we are a living -- i feel i live in a war zone every day for women where we are fighting for their rights against very powerful, very well-funded forces. i'm so proud of the courage of my clients. they come in and often crying on a glass table like this tears all over the place. and then i see them evolve into from victims to survivors to fighters for change and standing up and being empowered and then going on and empowering children and co-workers and other people in their community. >> where does, for example, the rights of tiger woods' wife override the rights of the adult entertainment star who has been having an affair with him who just feels a bit, you know, agrieved by the fact he isn't actually going to stay with her? where do the rights of his wife come into that in terms of your moral compass? >> i wouldn't characterize the fact that ms. james was upset that he wouldn't stay with her. it was his lying. it was the deception. it's the way he treated her after three years of an intimate relationship over 1,000 text messages and flying her around and making her feel that she was the only one. as to his wife, of course she has rights. and i assume that she asserted them. i'm glad she did so. that would be her right. >> you know, the point i'm getting at, right? you sort of paint a very compelling picture. you're very eloquent about this of this poor unsuspecting adult entertainment start who got duped by tiger woods. >> would you think it's okay for men to lie to women and break their hearts? i don't. i make no apology for that. i don't think men should be able to hurt women and then just walk away and throw them out like a piece of garbage. >> but she knew he was married. >> of course she knew he was married. >> does she care about mrs. woods? >> of course she did. but do you care about women being hurt by men who they trusted, whom they loved, who they had every reason to believe loved them. >> i hear that. >> that's it do. you care about the rights of women? do you care about all those women across this country who are being hurt and men treat them like oh, that is just an after thought. they can walk away after income a long-term relationship with him. >> i'm not condoning it. but if you're mrs. woods and you see this adult entertainment star claiming my life is ruined and just goes out and starts making movies -- >> she didn't say my life is ruined. those of us that have a lot of opportunities shouldn't look down on those who are trying to make a living. >> no. no. you keep trying to paint me as -- >> i don't represent his wife. i don't know what her thoughts are. i'm glad she stood up for herself. >> i'm not making any moral position or argue bment what she does for a living. what i'm saying is if you go out afterwards, after you have gone public and said tiger was treat meg really badly. he lied to me. he broke promises. but if you then go and make movies based on text messages, all that's going to do is really add to the hurt and humiliation in public shame of tiger woods' wife. and i'm curious as to where you representing that client would have a view about that kind of behavior and say maybe that's not a good idea. >> you know, i just don't sit in judgment of my clients. they have to -- >> ever? >> they have to survive. they have to make a living. i'm proud of her that, you know, she's trying to make a living. not everybody has a lot of options to make a living like you do and like i do. >> let's come back after the break and talk about the political cases. because there i have a little bit more sympathy with their clients. >> okay. 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is it ever political or is it always strictly legal? >> well, we represent victims rights. that's basically who we are as a law firm in the case of meg whitman, we represented the house keeper who wanted to speak out. that was also an employment case. and we felt that that was an important issue, a public interest and concern. and we also went ahead, by the way, and recovered wages she was due from ms. whitman. in the case of herman cain, we had a woman who wanted to speak out. so we helped to empower her. helped her to have a voice to speak out. and to speak the truth. i do think the truth matters. and it may make some people uncomfortable. >> should having an affair preclude a man from running for office? >> i think that if -- >> if that was the case, then there would be no jfk, no bill clinton, there is no newt gingrich. i mean there are lots of people who have been top of american political life and would never have careers. so where do you draw the line? >> well, i think that politicians, if they are going to seek the highest office in our land, the presidency of the united states of america, they need to be honest with the american public and put it all out there. and not be hypocrites. don't present themselves as the perfect family man if they played around if, they've had affai affairs. put it out. there the public will decide if it matters or not. >> newt gingrich has been now pretty open and said look this is all in my past. i'm married now for the third time. i'm very happy. i'm a changed man. are you happy with that? are you happy for him to restart politically if he likes? >> let me just say, i'm not a person who is going to vote for any of the potential republican nominees for the presidency. but not for those reasons. for the reason that they are against the right to choose abortion and i believe that women must have safe and legal and available abortions in this country. and i'm not going to be willing to go back to the days when states had a right to criminalize abortion and right now we've got like 88% almost of all the counties in the united states a woman can't even get an abortion even though it is legal. because of all the harassment of doctors, harassment of the clinics, the threats that are made against them, the constant restriction that's certain legislatures are placing on a woman's right to choose abortion. that hurts the poor. it hurts the young. it is absolutely wrong. i can't support any of those potential nominees for that reason. and also because they're not willing to say that gays and lesbians should enjoy marriage equality. and that is an affront to their dignity. it is an affront to the respect that gay and lesbian individuals have a right to enjoy, to say they should have some other status like civil unions rather than full equality. we fought in our law firm for six years in the california courts and we won a case in the california supreme court. and as a result of another case that we argue in this the supreme court, 14,000 couples were permitted, gay and lesbian couples to marry in california. i'm against all the republican nominees because they wouldn't afford equal rights. >> i have a shocking thing to tell you. i agree with you. let's have a break and come back and talk about your passion, particularly the abortion issue. you went through this harrowing experience as a younger person. you were raped at gun point and then you had to have an abortion. that is a strong motivating reason for why you feel this passionate. i totally understand why. 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>> i have no idea. >> did you ever see or hear of him again? >> i never d i went back to the united states. i felt at the time who was i? nobody was going to believe me against a well-known mexican doctor. i never thought that i could do anything in mexico. it never occurred to me. and so i just came back to the united states. >> you never found out what happened to him? >> never found out. >> what are your feelings towards him now? >> you know, i generally don't look back. i look forward. but i take what i believe was an extremely negative experience and i try to turn it into a positive. it helps me to understand others. and i have represented many women who have been survivors of violence against them, of rape, of child sexual abuse, of other kinds of violence. and i think i have a sympathy for them, empathy for them because i have lived it. and because i have lived it, i can help them to become empowered and put this all in perspective. not to forget it. but to put it in perspective to know that there are many choices you can make to help others given your experience. >> we're going to bring on your daughter shortly. but the man that was her father, somebody you married when you were both young. he turned out to have a bipolar condition. he was pretty abusive to you. physically abusive to you. very sad. he later committed so you siuic. that had to be an awful experience for you. >> i was in love with him at first. i met him in college. and, you know, there's a lot positive that i remember about him. but, of course, ending up as a single mom, raising a child on my own for a number of years, it really taught me a lot and helps me to have sympathy for others. and i will say on those positive thing that came out of that relationship is that i have a beautiful daughter who i think is brilliant and sweet and understands her duty to her family and to her community. and lives her values. and so i'm proud that i -- i had my daughter. >> were you able to forgive your first husband for the abuse when you discovered about this bipolar? >> it wasn't about forgiving. i always wanted him to be able to have a role in my daughter's life. because i believe that when you get divorced from somebody and you have children, you're getting divorced to them because you want the other parent to be able to continue in that child's life in a way that is safe for the child. and i try to look to the best in people. and i am basically an optimist. i look for the best. but i do prepare for the worst. >> you had a second marriage, 18 years to william allred. you still have his name. that ended badly. you got divorced. and he went through criminal charges for various things. it's said you felt betrayed by him. you never really said why. >> and i never will. but all i can say, that was then and this is now. and, again, i'm focused on helping women, helping minorities and that's what my life is all about. and i'm blessed to be able to have this life. i'm privileged to be in a law practice with my partner, same partners for 36 years, michael more 5:00 y moracco and blessed to be able to do what i do. and try to win change and work to win change and make it a better life for others so that they can go on in their lives. and that's what i'm focused on. it's not really about me. it's about helping others. and that's what i believe. >> let's bring out somebody else after the break who you have helped indisputably. you raised her as a single mom, through thick and thin, through the tough times and good moms. lisa? 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>> she gives it to everybody. >> my mother is brilliant and passionate and tenacious. and really nobody can beat her in a debate. i don't even try. >> you're like two peas in the pod here. >> we are. >> she's the new improved. >> i'm going to be gentlemanly but for one good reason. i think people will be shocked by the answer. tell me how old you are. >> i'm 70. >> you see, you do not look 70. >> does she? >> i'm 50. >> that's even more ridiculous. >> i don't believe that women -- >> it is not a crime to get old. although a lot of women in this town seem to think that it is. it's silly. we should be healthy and take care of ourselves. >> you look as glamorous as you two. >> you know, especially considering the alternative to getting older, getting older is just great. as a matter of fact, in this country, i think women should get medals for getting older. >> your mother is a fascinating creature in many ways. >> she is. >> and cute. >> what a good girl she is. >> so you haven't had a vacation since the early '80s, is that true? >> no one can remember when i took a vacation. >> you never a vacation? >> i've had a vacation. well, years ago i took my grandchildren on vacation. >> but you don't take vacations. >> >> i don't want vacations. >> why? >> because i have too much to fight for. >> you have an old car? >> it's a nice car. >> you don't collect art. you don't really collect material things? >> i don't. >> she got a couple pieces of art. >> most people are artists wouldn't call them art. but in any event. >> the point is that material things don't seem -- people look upon gloria allred from what they heard you about and she's only in all this for the money. i don't ghaet sense whether i research your life that money is a motivating factor for you. i just don't. >> justice is the motivating factor. you know, providing a voice for the voiceless. power for the powerless. hope for the hopeless. and justice. that's what i'm all about. >> tell me about this sort of passion she has. >> if you're in it for the money, you're not going to be a plaintiff's civil rights lawyer. i know from working for my mom for nine years that many of the cases she does she does for free. okay? the way you make money as an attorney is work in a gigantic law firm and represent fortune 500 companies. can you guaranteed a couple million dollars a year if a partnership in a firm like that for years and years and years. so it's not about the money. it's about justice. you think when she represents 35i-year-old in a haircutting salon in an economic injustice case that's a profitable case? it's just not going to be. >> of course. then i come back to the tiger woods case you heard us debating earlier. i kind of think why would this woman who does all this incredible stuff take on a porn star to flimflam tiger woods? >> let me respond to that. >> what do you think? >> i'll tell what you i think. my mother represents farmworkers. the press doesn't cover those cases. let me explain. she represents holocaust survivors, cocktail waitresses in age discrimination cases. on this show we spent 50% of the time talking about the tiger woods matter. that's one case in a career. why does she get blamed for the media short comings? the media obsesses about one or two cases, which are important. >> i'm not letting you get away with. that whoa. whoa. whoa. >> and the gay rights case she took to california supreme court. >> i'm not letting you pin it on the media. the media did not parade this adult entertainment star to the world. >> but the media covers it. two years later we're still talking about it here. >> yeah, because i think it's interesting. >> for half the interview. >> it's an article moral dilemma. the nakt you're so exercised about it confirms i rattled the cage. >> the point is why aren't we spending half the show talking about age discrimination or farmworkers or gay rights or animal rights? most of what she does. if the media covers the stories, why does she get blamed? her career is very balanced. >> here's my answer. precisely, the reason why gloria's career is not centered all the time in terms of the publicity it attracts on the cases you just quoted to me, is that you're not coming in here saying ask my mother about the tiger woods porn star because you know that's not what she's proudest of. and that's -- >> she's very proud of it. she's been defending it for the first half of the show. >> you are proud? >> absolutely. >> really? >> you know what? every woman deserves a voice and deserves to have her rights enforced. >> and she goes out and makes a movie about his text messages? doesn't that cheapen everything else? >> may i finish, please? >> yes. >> we have a real double stand understood this case about the porn industry. the men at the top who make billions of dollars from it are received in the highest circles. the women at the bottom would are the performers in a legal industry are, you know, sneered at as if they're nothing, as if they're dirt f they have a press conference, everyone -- >> you do the same thing your mom did. >> because that's the reality. >> you're trying to make out that i'm casting a moral judgment over her career. >> why do you keep saying porn star as if that's relevant? >> i wonder whether your mother takes on a case like that, she is obviously so high profile, obviously going to get so much attention. when you see this victim as she's being portrayed go on to make another movie and she uses tiger woods. >> you would want her to go on welfare instead of working at a profession where the occupation that she's involved in. >> how hurt if she feels she can make a porn movie out of it. >> a lot of working people are hurt by things and keep working because they have to work. that's the reality. she's not going to roll over and die. she can be both hurt and continue to work. >> an exploit it and commercialize it. >> why don't you spend as much time talking about the fact that tiger woods should apologize to the women that he hurt? all of the women that he hurt. >> he did. >> he didn't apologize to jocelyn james. he slu had a private meeting with her or at the minimum called her on the telephone and say i acknowledge -- >> let's have a break and come back and talk about you two, your relationship and whether you think your mom should find love, get married again. >> ooh. >> or does she just want every man trampled in the dust? ♪ let me get that door for you... 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[ laughter ] >> mandy, contacting gloria allred. this is not all right. >> tina fey and justin bieber on "saturday night live." what a moment, justin bieber giving you a name check. oh, my. you two are -- i mean, it's almost bordering on double trouble. >> i certainly hope so. >> it really is. i can take one of you, but the pair of you. even during the commercial breaks you have been hammering me. >> you can try. >> do you like having this famous/infamous mother? >> i love my mother, i'm very proud of her. everything you see here, this is who she is. you don't get to see her wicked sense of humor as much. >> does she get mischaracterized do you think? >> yes. >> how much of that is her open fault for taking on cases -- >> none. none. i wrote a book -- i'll tell you why. because the american media has deteriorated in the last decade to this level of celebrity obsession. college students can name more kardashians than wars than we are. why? because they'll break into the network programming about a silly sex scandal. >> often involving your mother's press conferences. >> why aren't we obsessing ab the military battles or the poor of the women. we're talking about the media. she does not control the media. she has a broad range of cases. probably 98% -- >> persuade your mother to drop all the scandalous celebrity cases. >> i don't consider them to be scandalous celebrity characterie on behalf of human beings. i represent some celebrities too. i represent reality stars. >> i what? >> because i care about them. because they're human beings. >> draw attention to them. i don't get it. >> these are people who have been abused by a network or somebody else on the show and they have a right to justice, just like the big stars do. and that's why they get represented and often get battles won by my mother or me. they have somebody who believes in them. >> put down your weapons for a moment. your mother has been through two difficult marriages and divorces. you look pretty amazing. i hope i'm not harassing you by saying that. but you do. you both do. >> you'll have a complaint filed after the show. >> i'm on egg shows. >> i'm waiting for how many times i have been properly in love. >> yeah, how many times have you been properly in love. >> before that, i have a gift for you. it's actually a subpoena. i am presenting you with this subpoena that i have brought and this is from your audience. okay? whom i'm representing and it's to you, piers morgan, i want you to appear for a deposition very soon and tell us under oath how many times you have been properly in love, under oath. >> i'm not accepting that. i didn't touch it. i didn't take it. >> take it like a woman. [ laughter ] >> in other words with courage. and strength. >> come on. answer the question. >> all right. how many times properly? should i count being in love with my computer or -- >> no. >> no. all right. >> all women are indiscriminate. >> of course both of my husbands and of course my family and -- >> any other men outside of your husbands? >> no. >> would you like to fall in love again? >> no. >> really? >> no, i don't have time. and i don't want to make that investment. my life, the rest of it, whatever gift god gives me, i'm dedicated to helping to empower women and minorities to fight for justice, to show them that they have more strength and courage within them, to win justice that they're entitled to than they realize they have. that's what i want to do with the rest of my life. i love it. i do it every day. 24/7. if i didn't have to sleep i'd be doing it then as well. no, i'm not interested in having a relationship, except with my family, and my clients. >> people have a hard time understanding, single women can be very happy. my mother is very happy. if it ain't broke, don't fix it. especially older women. who have been married and they're divorced. they reach a certain age a lot of them say i don't want that anymore. i'm really happy with being able to make what ever choices i want in my life, to do whatever i want to do. and i think that's my mom. so because of that, i have stopped nudging her about dating. >> the big question -- i can't even imagine what dating you would be like. terrifying. >> we have offers from younger men. much younger men. >> we have a saying, become the person you wanted to marry. if you wanted to marry a person with a sense of humor, develop that in yourself. if you want to marry somebody what's going to protect you and take care of you, become that person yourself. >> gloria, i have to leave it there. the big question with you are you predominantly a force for good or a force for evil and i have concluded you are a force for good. >> thank you so much. einstein said the world is a dangerous place not because there are evil people in

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