i'll see you back here tomorrow for more supreme court decisions and post debate analysis. chris jansing picks up your coverage right now from atlanta. good morning. it is 11:00 a.m. eastern, 8:00 a.m. pacific. i'm chris jansing in for jose diaz-balart, and large here at georgia tech, the site of pretty intense georgia tech matchups, but all the media assembled here waiting for matchup with pressure about as intense as anything we've seen in a presidential debate. in just a few hours donald trump and joe biden will go head to head for the first time in four years. tonight's face-off marks a critical opportunity for both candidates to shake-up this stubbornly static race between two men in an all-out war for a second white house term. and tonight -- tonight they mark the most important battle. new polling from just the past 24 hours continues to show a race with no clear leader. poll after poll after poll within the margin of error, so tonight the opportunity to break out not just with undecided voters, but with 16% of voters who say they're open to changing their candidate choice based on tonight's performance. joining us now here in atlanta vaughn hilliard, nbc news senior white house correspondent gabe gutierrez, former democratic senator claire mccaskill from missouri, and tim miller, writer at large for the bulwark. he served as communications director for jeb bush's 2016 campaign and is an msnbc political analyst. okay, gabe, what are some of the top lines we expect to hear from president biden tonight? >> hi there, chris. president biden is expected to try to make that clear contrast the campaign has been talking about for the last several months, differentiating himself between current president biden and former president trump and also hit the issue of reproductive rights. within just the past hour or so following a supreme court ruling the biden campaign out with a statement that women's health, lives, and freedom remain in peril across the country because of donald trump, essentially tying the former president to those abortion rulings that we're seeing right now. the other key point for the biden campaign is something they've been making since the start of this election season, that donald trump remains a threat to democracy, and that's something we expect them to hit over and over again. and interestingly, cris, this will be the first time we see them in such a setting since january 6th and we expect president biden to hit trump over that, his decisions that and also and 2020 election was rigged, the falsehood trump continues to push. >> vaughn, what's the trump campaign strategy, and what's their expectation for tonight? >> they've been very coy about what the expectations are for donald trump here. let's be very clear. they've suggested he's doing little in the form of traditional debate preparation. at least that's what they are telling us, and donald trump has suggested the same, that he doesn't need to go into a room for two days, he doesn't need to go on retreat for a week to preair for this moment, so you can make the case that tonight will be evidence of what donald trump's preparation, whatever it exactly looked like, will amount to. but so far this morning in just the last half hour we have the first words from the former president in the form of social media posts. one, in which he says in all caps, quote, joe biden a threat to dimocracy and a threat to the survival and existence of our country itself with three exclamation points. there was a question donald trump would essentially attempt to moderate or at least come on with poise onto the debate stage over the course of these 90 minutes, and the social media posts here this morning would suggest otherwise. the second social media post was calling out fox news for having joe biden campaign's communications director on the air here. this is where the focus is this morning, we're still many hours away. he will be flying into atlanta, but for donald trump there's been a lot that's happened in the last four years, not only the guilty conviction on the 34 felony counts, he was found to sexually abused e. jean carroll and defamed here, found liable of financial fraud and fined $350 million. of course he has three other criminal trials that are pending, all of that since the last time he went on this debate stage. and the question for donald trump is what direction can he turn on policy and what can a second trump administration look like as opposed to a second biden administration and push aside the clouds that have loomed over the white house since 2021. >> vaughn hilliard, and gabe gutierrez, thank you so much okay, i've got claire and tim here. shall we get ready to rumble or -- >> i'm tense, i'm tense. >> i'm literally getting texts from people who say i don't know if i can watch tonight. what is going on. >> i think if you care deeply about this country and you see where we are at this moment in history, you realize there's so much at stake. it's very rare in a campaign that you have moments like this, that can in fact -- now, if everyone does as expected, if biden does well and trump is trump, i'm not sure it moves anything significantly. but the potential to change if biden were to have a very bad night or trump were to have a very bad night. >> and they know it. >> oh, they know it. if you think we're tense, imagine ow they feel. >> it was a little different when you were in a primary debate, but you lived through it with jeb bush. what's today like for the campaigns? >> it's nervous for people on the normal spectrum of psychotherapy. it seems like donald trump is watching fox news and trashing it on social media. so i don't know what's in donald trump's head, what he's doing today, but for the rest of us it is anxious. there's a lot of buildup. the thing isn't until 9:00. you can only do so much prep until the day of. you feel overprepped the day of. i feel go see a movie on the day and that makes sense to me. >> did you pay attention to the movie? >> yeah. >> you want to be distracted and you want to have your mind cleared. and i think why today feels so anxious we can just be honest, the stakes of it are unbelievably high. we've never had a debate where one of the two candidates attempted a coup during the last election, and the other candidate joe biden for all his strengths this isn't his really top, top strength. he's done some pretty good debates in the past, he was good at the "state of the union," but sometimes he's a little rickety. i think that adds to people's anxiousness. >> he's done like 40 debates, literally according to "the wall street journal" 40 debates including when he was running with president obama. does it help. >> if you compare the debates early in joe biden's career, joe biden didn't have a serious opponent in most of his senate races. when you get a serious opponent it's kind of fun to debate. >> i did a delaware campaign in 2004. it's a little different animal, sure you're, greeting each other afterwards, you're hanging out. >> this is more like mud wrestling. he's got to be willing to go down to a level where it's not easy for him to do because he really feels strongly about the dignity of the office, but i think he knows he has to get down there and mix it up with donald trump. donald trump is going to be all darkness and insults and all the things that joe biden isn't. but if joe biden doesn't show strength more importantly than what he says is that he shows strength while he's saying it. >> i think there's a difference between if you want to talk about i won't necessarily say getting in the mud but being touch and going to places that may be a lower common denominator. there's offense and defense. the offense is he says something about hunter biden we know how joe is going to respond to that. but does he come in and does he say you are a liar? you lied about 2020, are you willing to say you lost in 2020? i won, you lost, stop now. >> i hope so. you're a liar, you're a loser, you're a sore loser. i think that's a good way to get under donald trump's skin. that's part of the reason we did the big lies is he can't accept in his ego that he lost. i think going at him right on that than being a liar. i think donald trump knows he's a liar. strength in this situation is very important. the defensiveness is sitting presidents and all politicians, this was true for jeb, you want to defend every point. especially a guy like donald trump coming rapid fire with lies and he's defaming you, you want to defend everything, you can't do that. you have to defend a few key points and pivot back to going on offense. i hope that's what he's been prepping this week. >> maybe there's such a thing as knowing too much. claire, there's a lot that happens around debate night. for example, the biden campaign is launching project 2025, it's a website where they talk about what they see as donald trump's extreme agenda. they say project 2025 threatens reproductive freedom, social security, could jeopardize the doj, taxes being cut. we know donald trump wants to draw contrast, but let me play devil's advocate. people know who donald trump is, they know he's a convicted felon and he's still running neck and neck with joe biden, so is that the best use of their strategic time and money? >> well, i think it's important to have that there so people can go look in black and white. it'll be a good reference point for people to see what trump is planning. i don't think people realize what it contains. it's 900 pages and these are trump people getting ready for a second term including blowing up something that really separates us from many countries, and that is we don't let government be run by political parties. we have what's called civil servants, and they have certain protections from politic. that's one of the important things he wants to wipeout. take out professionalism in government and just put ipparty hacks from top to bottom. that's what donald trump sees as a reform of our government. and, you know, i've got to tell you on it debate tonight one thing that really worries me is that cnn has said the moderators aren't going to fact check, so that's another challenge for biden. it is a tough thing to do, but if they don't do any of it, that means biden has to do all of it, which makes his job harder. >> is it possible to fact check the president in realtime? >> there's something you have to fact check about the fact the economy is getting better, border crossings are down on those key points if donald trump is doing a fire hose of lies he can't be the realtime fact checker giving him pinocchios up there on stage. he's got to correct and one of the things he has to educate about trump because i do believe your devil's advocate point there's a lot of stuff people don't know about trump or need to be reminded. trump does well with people who are paying attention and you've got to get to people who haven't been paying attention the last three years and that inclouds reminding themselves of things tat might be obvious to us. >> all right, you two, get your energy up. we've got so much more ahead here in atlanta when we're back in 90 seconds. coming up, just how president biden can prepare for tonight when trump, as we were just saying, can be so unpredictable. we'll talk with a former hillary clinton campaign staffer who played trump in reversals in the 2016 debate. plus, trump says his vp pick will likely be that tonight's event. we'll talk utthat strategy about when trump will make the announcement. and we'll dive into breaking news from just a short time ago. the supreme court has ruled to allow emergency abortions in idaho affirming that leak yesterday, the issue expected to be one of the flash points in tonight's debate. here's a look how biden and trump handled the topic of abortion at their first debate back in 2020. >> the president also is opposed to roe v. wade. that's on the ballot as well in the court -- in the court. and so that's also at stake right now, and so the election is all -- >> you don't know it's on the ballot. why is it on the ballot? know i ballot why is it on the ballot? sup? -who are you? i'm your inner child. get in. ♪ ♪ [ engine revving ] listen. horsepower keeps you going, but torque gets you going. ♪ ♪ [ engine revving ] oh now we're torquin'! the dodge hornet r/t. the totally torqued-out crossover. it's derm's day off, but neutrogena ultra sheer sunscreen is still on the clock. vital sun protection goes six layers deep blocking 97% of burning uv rays. it's light, but it's working hard. unlike me. neutrogena ultra sheer sunscreen. what if you could go from this to this. with just one step tresemmé silk serum. time for the ultimate humidity test. weightlessly smooth hair your turn. new tresemmé keratin smooth collection. now to breaking news from the u.s. supreme court, new decisions that could inform tonight's debate here in atlanta. the conversation as well over which man could have control over any future court appoints. today brought a major win for the biden administration over the perdue pharma settlement, and justices formally released that big abortion rule that got leaked yesterday. nbc news washington correspondent yamiche alcindor outside the supreme court, dahlia lithwick host of the pord cast and msnbc law analyst with us as well. two big cases, yamiche, tell us about them. >> we should start with the first big case we've been following yesterday. it was that idaho abortion case. the supreme court deciding abortion can continue in idaho, and for now the federal law that requires people get emergency core including emergency abortions can continue to trump that law. of course right now sending it back to the lower courts. people i talk to including the biden administration officials see that as a temporary win. what's interesting here it was decided on a split decision here. usually we try to see what the break down is. in this case ketanji brown jackson was concuring and dissenting. i want to read a little part. it is a delay. while this court dawdles the country waits. pregnant people experiencing medical conditions remain in a precar yg position as their doctors are kept in the dark about what the law require. she went onto say the court could have a chance here to say it trumped any state law from idaho to texas where there's a near total abortion ban, and it's stopping short of doing that. i want to read what justice alito wrote. he said it unbig wsly demands medicare funded hospitals protect the health of a pregnant woman and her unborn child. there's the sort of break down there, and of course this was the case a lot of people were watching because there's a big question whether or not in idaho women could get abortions that would save their future fertility and their health without having to be on death's door. i want to break down another decision, a 5-4 decision on perdue pharma in that case the supreme court decided to block a settlement that would have have multimillions of dollars for opioid victims because they said the bankruptcy court was wrong in allowing a protection to go forward for the sackler family protecting them from legal claims. that's really big because the sackler family is household name and connect today the opioid crisis. there's been a number of documentaries alleging that family pushed the oxycontin in communities here and got a lot of people addicted in this country. the supreme court now saying that family cannot be sort of legally protected from claims there. judge gorsuch, i want to say, though, really wrote -- actually it's judge kavanaugh. he wrote today's decision is wrong on the law and devastating for more than 100,000 opioid victims and their families. and what justice kavanaugh is worried about is while this deal is being blown up, he's worried there might not be another deal down the line for families and these opioid victims and families waiting on this settlement, billions of dollars to go to them, that they might not get a second chance. >> dahlia, what do you make of the decision on purdue pharma? >> well, the most interesting thing about it is in a term that's seen pretty consistent ideological breakdowns that we can predict purdue is an amazing case of strange bedfellows. we have justice gorsuch in writing the majority joined by clarence thomas, justice alito, amy coney barrett, and ketanji brown jackson. and in the dissent yamiche just talked about we have justice kavanaugh joining the chief justice, justice sotomayor, and justice kagen. this is clearly an issue that really fractured the court down lines we couldn't predict, and we're going to have to try to read deeply to understand why it had that split, but i think it's really one of those cases there was a tension, this was such a carefully arranged deal that took a lot of parties a lot of time to try to do what they thought was the best possible compromise, and it's fairly clear the five justice on the court might have said this might have been a nuanced compromise to do best for everyone but it's not good enough for the victims. >> we also, dahlia, now had almost 24 hours to process that leaked abortion decision yesterday, which now has been formally released. bottom line is this is going back to the supreme court and it still leaves an awful lot up in the air. >> yeah, i think the most important thing about this is there's a fight between the merit and the appearance here. the appearance is the court realizes they dove in way too quickly on the policy dispute and they let it play out. that's kind of interesting given that there is a debate that's happening right now about abortion that's going to take place tonight but also a debate going into an election year about the court it itself and its role in overturning roe. then you have the merit themselves, which are a separate fight, because it's clear as we just heard and as justice jackson says in her dissent, this doesn't help women, it helps a fraction. deeply disturbing pause on a deeply disturbing trend of taking health care out of the hands of women and their physicians and putting it in the hands of states. nothing about this changes particularly in states like the fifth circuit states that will continue to be able to allow really important emergency medical air to be disrupted by the state itself. >> yamiche alcindor and dahlia lithwick, thank you both very much. and with us to take a closer look at all this is anthony michael christ, an associate law professor, former missouri senator claire mccaskill. okay, anthony, look, we can't sit here where there's going to be a debate across the street, and this is going to be the spin room tonight. a lot of that spin is almost certainly going to be around abortion. can you take the politics out of the ruling we saw from the supreme court in. >> absolutely not. i think what we're seeing from the supreme court is this middle ground where they're trying to appease those who believe like justice jackson and those who are squeamish like justice barrett and justice kavanaugh because they're worried what might happen if they restrict abortion access in the middle of a presidential year and election cycle. i i think this is a political decision and i think it does harm a lot of women who don't get the protections an injunction like idaho provides in texas. >> abortion barely came up but since then we've had the overturning of roe v. wade, people have taken to the streets. we all these court decisions in states and the supreme court. but i want to remind people a little bit about what happened back in 2020. let's play that. >> the president also is opposed to roe v. wade. that's on the ballot as well in the court -- in the court. and so that's also at stake right now. and so the election is all -- >> you don't know what's on the ballot. why is it on the ballot? >> because -- >> it's not on the ballot. >> it's on the ballot in the court. >> i don't think so. there's nothing happening there. >> how different is that conversation going to be tonight? >> yeah, and trump's in trouble on this because he's bragged about overturning roe v. wade. he does this specious thing, and i know the professor will back me up on this, trying to say somehow it's great the states get to decide. not in my state. rape victims are being forced to give birth in my state by the government. women cannot -- life begins at conception, we're a person hood state, puts in jeopardy ivf and all kinds of other things. >> women in idaho are being airlifted. >> exactly. it's something that really matters, and it's now front of mind to women because they've lost a freedom that was theirs for 50 years. 50 years the precedents were wiped out by a court that pretended when they were getting confirmed that theyermented precedent. >> i don't know big pharma or purdue will come up tonight, professor at this debate. but this is significant, and anybody who has talked to the families, seen the families, known what's gone into the negotiation that led to this agreement may be scratching their heads. there is definitely an emotional component this country understands what a scourge drugs have been. what do you make of the decision? >> well, i think it's a very complicated decision, and i think part of it is because certainly our hearts and our minds are with the victims of the opioid crisis. on the other hand, the seems as if there was some overreach by the courts in trying to provide protections to a very wealthy family that perhaps didn't need that protection. and so i don't think we're going to see those granular intricacies debated tonight, but certainly the opioid crisis is such a plague on the united states and particularly in the rural parts of this country, i think it's an important issue we'll see talked about to some extent. >> and overarching all of this, of course, claire, is the idea there could be some seats that open up for the next president. joe biden, the democrats certainly want to make that point. are there other cases this term we haven't talked about that are important to inform people as they decide who they want to vote for president? >> i'm so glad you asked. there was an opinion yesterday that should be leading the news, the snider opinion. this ethnically challenged supreme court that has received gifts over millions of dollars, they decided that giving a public official money after they have done something for you is okay. they decided in the snider decision that if you give an elected official money before they do something for you, it's a bribe. but if you give it to them after they do something for you, and in this case it was a $13,000 check given to a mayor in indiana after the fact, that that's a gratuity and that's okay. kavanaugh had the never to equate a $13,000 check to a mayor to the same thing as giving a gift card to your child's teacher at the end of the school year. give me a break. >> we're out of time. but is this as shocking as it sounds? >> oh, it absolutely is and it certainly wasn't what federal law was designed to do and to protect people who have integrity in their government. >> thank you both. we've got much more ahead from atlanta up next. president biden facing the challenge of preparing for the unpredictability of donald trump. we'll talk with a former hillary clinton campaign staffer who actually played trump iprehearsals for the 2016 debates. also ahead president biden won the key swing state of georgia four years ago. where we are by a hair, what he and trump both need to do tonight if they're going to appeal to the undecided voters here and across the country. stay with us as we welcome you live from atlanta. welcome you live from atlanta. with fastsign, create factory grade visual solutions to perfect your process. ♪♪ fastsigns. make your statement™. why use 10 buckets of water when you can use 1 fire extinguisher. and to fight heartburn, why take 10 antacids throughout the day when you can take 1 prilosec. for easier heartburn relief, one beats ten. prilosec otc. one pill. 24 hours. zero heartburn. four years ago. four years ago shop etsy anytime for furniture, lighting, and other thoughtful pieces made by real people to bring a little something extra to the ordinary. find handmade items that add wow to your walls, help your party set-up pop, and new things to help you fall in love with your family room again. when you want one-of-a-kind items to give your home a little refresher... etsy has it. liberty mutual customized my car insurance and i saved hundreds. with all the money i saved i thought i'd buy stilts. hi honey. ahhh...ooh. look, no line at the hot dog stand. yes! only pay for what you need. ♪liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty.♪ her uncle's unhappy. only pay for what you need. i'm sensing an underlying issue. it's t-mobile. it started when we tried to get him under a new plan. but they they unexpectedly unraveled their “price lock” guarantee. which has made him, a bit... unruly. you called yourself the “un-carrier”. you sing about “price lock” on those commercials. “the price lock, the price lock...” so, if you could change the price, change the name! it's not a lock, i know a lock. so how can we undo the damage? we could all unsubscribe and switch to xfinity. their connection is unreal. and we could all un-experience this whole session. oksan francisco's beenfor. through tough times. london breed led us through the pandemic, declaring an emergency before anyone else, saving thousands of lives. from growing up in the western addition housing projects to becoming mayor, london has never given up on the city that raised her. london is getting people off the streets and into care. london never gave up on me. i found a home, and my life is on the right track. london made it super easy for me to open my small business, by cutting city fees. and she's reinventing downtown to make our city vibrant again. she's building 82,000 new homes and helping first time homebuyers, just like us. and london's hiring hundreds of police officers, and arresting drug dealers. san francisco has been through difficult times, but our hard work is paying off. working together, we're building a better future for the city we all love. ad paid for by re-elect mayor london breed 2024. financial disclosures are available at sfethics.org. tonight, a rematch for the ages. back in 2020 biden and trump faced off twice. in the first debate trump kept the pressure on biden, interrupting him more than 140 times. here's a little bit of what that looked like. >> vote and let your senators know how strongly you feel. vote now. make sure you, in fact, let people know. >> he doesn't want to answer the question. >> i'm not going to answer the question. >> why wouldn't you answer that question because -- >> the question is. >> the radical left. >> would you shut up, man. >> joining us now the former spokesman for hillary clinton who played donald trump during clinton's debate prep back in 2016. did you go into deep training for that one? >> kind of did. a lot of method acting, immersion into watching the gop primary debates there. i think there were a dozen. >> so you know what the donald trump strategy is even though there are new rule this time. they're going to cut the mics, there's not going to be anyone in the audience, so trump can't feed off of that. what would you say? >> well, his camp's got some of the best including ron klain, but yong you have to kind of approach it donald trump doesn't have a strategy as much as he has a list. there's always a long list of items on his mind that he just prefers to take and get off his chest. we can all do a pretty good donald trump imitation. it goes back to how badly he was treated his first term, how badly he's being treated now, and there's this third category of sort of the blur of the economy and immigration. we have not had two people run against each other who are switching jobs in 134 years. so there's a lot of ways to look at the economic data. there's a lot of pain to go around on immigration. i think trump's strategy for lack of a better word, his guttural the intent is to really get the biden moment, which he talks about incessantly, it's not a secret to find a moment the president looks out of it. and he's going to do that through huraging and negative stuff, but i think he's also going to do it through a barrage of data. now, it'll be mostly contrived, but he's going to say he's proud of the economy. and under my economy the dow was a million and inflation was negative, and items were free, that's going to fall to the moderators. but it'll be confusing for the viewer and for everyone on stage. >> there are probably not going to be many fact checks, and joe biden can only do so many. sometimes frankly trump will throw things out even the most seasoned people -- >> exactly. >> but i want to ask you about a moment because we know there are a lot of people who may watch as part of the debate, none of the debate and they may see what those are on social media, on newscasts. it's very funny we have that clip when you were playing donald trump and he comes in to hug hillary clinton, and what would you do in that moment? i mean the fact is can you really prepare to have a moment that in a positive way goes viral? >> probably not, but you can have gone through as many hypothetical moments so that if any of them come up, you would have thought them through. and what's really apt about the clip you just showed is that from the very first moment tonight, we're going to get a real good sense of what's going on because these two guys don't like each other. >> at all. >> the animosity is going to boil -- are they going to shake hands? are they going to say hello? i mean they couldn't in 2020 because of covid, but the idea that someone might come in even keel and eventually lose it, height not be accurate if right off the bat they haven't seen each other in 1,343 days. that's a lot of pent-up anger. i mean they might take a swing at each other to start. >> verbally. >> verbal. and it depends on what the moderators -- you know this the moderators have a tremendous amount of say in what goes on and you hit the nail on the head you could have no belt winning economists up there, they're not going to fact check in the moment. but they will be able to say things if he says october 7th the attack on israel wouldn't have happened if i was president, i assume the moderates would say you know what, that's just not true, and they wouldn't have been able to do that without the muting because the muting is really helping the moderators to just process what's being said. >> but is it hurting joe biden? because sometimes an argument could be made that letting trump just go, look rude, looking a little unhinged is actually to joe biden's benefit? >> i don't buy this notion everything somehow is down to trump's benefit. he lost in 2020, is that to his benefit? i don't think so. look, if your see worried about what donald trump is going to say, he's got 45 more minutes to really undistinguish himself. joe biden is at his best when he is talking to people and telling him things. so someone not barking at him from 10 feet away or not being heard is completely to his benefit. and also let's -- it's a kind of funny thing going on where the rule now isn't that you can't interrupt. that was always common sense in humanity, it's the mute because he can't control himself. he can't control himself when he's speaking either. >> it's so good to see you again. >> i'll see you again in 2028. up next georgia went blue for the first time in decades in 2020, but there are signs joe biden is faltering a bit here and in several other battleground states, so we're going to drill down how georgia is prime example of where this race is going to be won and potentially won. you're watching msnbc live from atlanta. you're watchingn msnbc live from atlanta. all in one. to those with migraine, i see you. for the acute treatment of migraine with or without aura and the preventive treatment of episodic migraine in adults. don't take if allergic to nurtec odt. allergic reactions can occur, even days after using. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. it's time we all shine. talk to a healthcare provider about nurtec odt from pfizer. every day, more dog people are deciding it's time for a fresh approach to pet food. developed with vets. made from real meat and veggies. portioned for your dog. and delivered right to your door. it's smarter, healthier pet food. with tonight's debate just hours away now, the key audience will come down to thousands of undecided voters in battleground states like here, georgia, which biden won, by the way, by less than 0.3 of a point back in 2020. as the candidates prepare to take the stage a new atlantic journal constitution poll shows trump leading biden by 5 points within the margin of error. joining us now two georgia-based veteran reporter, greg bluestein and an msnbc contributor, maya king is politics reporter for "the new york times." you both spend your days here. look, six battleground states. this is one of them. what can georgia tell us about this national race for president? >> i think the one demographic you really should look at here in georgia is black voters, particularly black men. this is the block that definitely made a big difference in 2020 and helped joe biden win the state by a very narrow margin, and now we've reported and it's laid out in polling this is a block that has some questions for biden and it's not entirely sure if they'll turn out in large numbers. i think we can look particularly in the atlanta suburbs to get a sense of exactly how the democratic base is feeling. >> so there's no doubt trump sees an opening here, right? and he has been sending people into places to court the black vote, in particular black men. but that ajc poll shows trump trailing biden by 64 points among black voters in georgiach. sounds like a tremendous amount, but is it in. >> yeah, look, trump's support among black voters is about 90%. what's really important for joe biden he needs the support to be above 90%. he'll get overwhelming support among black voters, but the battle for him is not between trump -- for black voters it's not between trump, it's really between the couch. he's worried about apathy, the lack of enthusiasm and that's why the get out the vote machine is revving up here in georgia. >> the other thing we know about georgia and we spend a lot of time talking about is the backdrop of legal challenges. they're still facing donald trump here. third party voters have been split on their opinion about trump's conviction in the hush money case. just take a listen. we talked to some of them. >> what makes them better than everyone else who have committed the same crimes and are put in prison for that or even much less than what he's committed? i think he should serve time. >> it didn't seem like real charges. i mean it just seemed like something they were trying to -- almost seemed like the jury was almost rigged. they were going to convict him, you know, no matter what. >> we've been hearing, maya, that joe biden is not going to be shy, and certainly his campaign has been amping up calling him a convict, going after him for -- for being a felon, calling him a felon. is that something that will resonate with voters? >> i think we'll have to see. and i think you can expect biden and democrats to take this a step further and talk about the democratic implications of this. this is also the state where trump tried to overturn his election loss. and so democrats and biden have been very clear about the democratic implications of this election, and they know that's front of mind for voters here in georgia particularly as it relates to trump's conviction and also the ongoing fight for voting rights and access to the ballot. >> so, greg, what else can the ajc poll tell us about what is going to be key for those undecided and double hater voters tonight in georgia? >> well, one thing going back to what maya was just speaking about was those convictions. while a majority of republicans disagree the convictions, a majority of democrats agree with them, it was independent voters. and in georgia independent voters for a very long time have tended to vote republican. that started to change in 2016. that changed even more in 2020, and independent voters are relatively split over those convictions. that's 1 reason why we might see president biden lean into that tonight. >> we're excited to see what happens tonight. coming up next we'll be closely watching who shows up tonight with donald trump as he gets ready to announce his vp pick. what we're learning about that and when it could all go down. we're back after a quick break live from atlanta for this historic presidential debate. m s historic presidential debate ♪♪ imagine a future where plastic is not wasted... but instead remade over and over... into the things that keep our food fresher, our families safer, and our planet cleaner. to help us get there, america's plastic makers are investing billions of dollars to create innovative products and new recycling technologies for sustainable change. because when you push for smarter solutions, big things can happen. if advanced lung cancer has you searching for possibilities, discover a different first treatment. immunotherapies work with your immune system to attack cancer. but opdivo plus yervoy is the first combination of 2 immunotherapies for adults newly diagnosed with non-small cell lung cancer that has spread, tests positive for pd-l1, and does not have an abnormal egfr or alk gene. opdivo plus yervoy is not chemotherapy, it works differently. it helps your immune system fight cancer in 2 different ways. opdivo and yervoy can cause your immune system to harm healthy parts of your body during and after treatment. these problems can be severe and lead to death. see your doctor right away if you have a cough; chest pain; shortness of breath; irregular heartbeat; diarrhea; constipation; severe stomach pain; severe nausea or vomiting; dizziness; fainting; eye problems; extreme tiredness; changes in appetite, thirst or urine; rash; itching; confusion; memory problems; muscle pain or weakness; joint pain; flushing; or fever. these are not all the possible side effects. problems can occur together and more often when opdivo is used with yervoy. tell your doctor about all medical conditions including immune or nervous system problems, if you've had or plan to have an organ or stem cell transplant, or received chest radiation. your search for 2 immunotherapies starts here. ask your doctor about opdivo plus yervoy. a chance to live longer. only purple's gel flex grid passes the raw egg test. asno other mattress cradleso your body and simultaneously supports your spine. memory foam doesn't come close. get your best sleep guaranteed. save up to $800 during our 4th of july sale. visit purple.com or a store near you welcome back. today won't just be about how donald trump and joe biden perform on stage here in atlanta. it will also be about how trump's potential vps perform off stage. four sources tell nbc news trump is considering revealing his running mate as early as this afternoon. nbc news has learned that high on trump's list of potential candidates are doug burgum, jd vance, and marco rubio. all three will be at tonight's debate. back with us and trying to make me laugh is tim miller. >> i would spin you. i wouldn't always tell you 100% the truth. >> i'm shocked and dismayed. >> i never did stupid stuff. you never know, we will announce our vp three hours before the debate. >> it's all a gag. the whole thing is a gag. it would be funnier if it wasn't sad and dangerous. it's this "apprentice" thing when you bring guys out. see who looks the best on the screen. >> they decided they're going to come here. >> why? >> maybe do you think if they're in the spin room, he will check who does the best job in i'm asking seriously. >> i seriously think -- it's almost like this test, like a gang test, an initiation test. you are asked questions about my ridiculous lies and see how well you can defend them. that's a key part of the job. i don't know. i wonder if any of these three guys have called mike pence. >> i'm guessing now. >> and asked for tips or advice. it's crazy to think the actual vp is not only not here but not endorsing trump, trump's vp. you have other guys who are like begging him to be the vp. it's a bizarre circumstance. >> there's another theory, maybe wild, but i will run it by you. >> okay. >> they are here as insurance. if he doesn't have a good night. if tonight, even the fox news hosts say, joe biden won, you can reset what the story is tomorrow by announcing your vp. >> i guess. only the candidate can reset the story. i've been in spin rooms at losing debates. having surrogates get pummelled doesn't do any good. the only way to reboot a bad night is for the candidate to do it. the candidate would have to come out and do a mea culpa or change the news. trump is good at this, doing something to change the attention. i don't think that doug burgum's announcement or fox tv hit, god love him, is going to do anything to change things if trump has a bad night. >> what's the criteria, do you think? what is going to ultimately make the decision for donald trump, aside from who does well tonight in the spin room? >> look, i mean, i think that looking the part for trump obviously matters. it'sin ridiculous but it does. on burgum it feels weird. that was his skill set -- >> marketing? >> marketing before he became president. shamelessness, willingness to go along with it. 2028, you imagine a horrific scenario where trump is in there. it looks like a democrat will win. he is worried about jail on the other side. he wants a vp that will stand by him. burgum brings something else else, which is money. maybe it feels less important now because of the rules of campaign finance a vp can put in their own money. that maybe feels less important now. >> vp picks usually don't matter. i wish both of these gentlemen good health. they both are of a certain age where you have to look at the potential vp as someone who may have to be able to step up. do you think the american people look at it that way, any differently than any previous pick? >> i think so. the only vp pick that mattered was palin for this reason. john mccain was old. there was a specific swing voter that was like, i don't think she's ready. i think it could matter. >> tim miller, thank you. tonight, special coverage and analysis of the first presidential debate hosted by cnn. watch tonight beginning at 7:00 p.m. eastern on msnb. at 9:00 p.m., you can watch the debate right here. stay tuned for analysis and coverage all night long. that's it for me this hour. i'm chris jansing. i will be back from 1:00 to 3:00 p.m. eastern. andrea mitchell picks things up next. iberogast bloating iberogast thanks to a unique combination of herbs, iberogast helps relieve six digestive symptoms to help you feel better. six digestive symptoms. the power of nature. iberogast. power e*trade's award-winning trading app makes trading easier. with its customizable options chain, easy-to-use tools and paper trading to help sharpen your skills, you can stay on top of the market from wherever you are. e*trade from morgan stanley power e*trade's easy to-use tools make complex trading less complicated. custom scans can help you find new trading opportunities, while an earnings tool helps you plan your trades and stay on top of the market. e*trade from morgan stanley you know what's brilliant? 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