90% of contribute ptripoli. one of his three captured sons has escaped. let's he get the late frst from libya and sara sidner. first tell me what's going on there in zawiya. >> reporter: we were hearing a lot of loud booms, a lot of what sounded like mortar fire. there was definitely small arms fire. it sounded like this was a firefight and we went and checked it out. and we think that we have confirmed, we've only talked to one of the rebels who has not been down at the square, but we think that it is again celebratory fire. but what they're using are things like anti-aircraft missiles. so it is very loud. it's hard to tell what exactly is going on. then we started hearing ambulances. we know zawiya has been under the control of rebels for about three days and we know that this has been a place that has been relatively rid of gadhafi forces for that period of time. and they've pushed all the way into tripoli from here. but it is disconcerting when you start seeing tracer fire coming over your head and harnlg large amounts over and over and over again for several hours. >> particularly when you know there are still a fight going on for libya itself. let me take you back to earlier in your very long day. you went to tripoli and back. tell us about that trip, tell us about what you saw. >> reporter: we got up early in the morning, we went back into the city after dawn to see what it was like because in the overnight hours, when we were there about 3:00, 4:00 in the morning, things were pretty tense, although people were celebrating in the green square there which the rebels now want everyone to refer to as martyr square. but we wanted to see in daylight what exactly was happening and what we saw was sort of an eerie scene at first. there was no one to stop us, very few checkpoints that the rebels had set up, very few. we got into the city, we got to the very edge of the city, and we watched just people taking their time, driving in all of he's rebel trucks and then we started seeing some of the celebrations in the city. some of the rebels standing around in complete disbelief that they've been able to get into the city so easily without having what they thought was going to be a massive firefight, they thought her going they werg to be faced with a large contingent of gadhafi forces and those forces never materialized. this fight isn't over. it they were still fighting this afternoon in the square.forces . this fight isn't over. it they were still fighting this afternoon in the square. but we're not seeing those numbers that we heard gadhafi go on state television and state radio saying that he had. we have not seen them. and i think that's also surprised the rebels and perhaps some of the civilians who have stayed behind. >> surprising pretty much everybody. sara sidner, thanks so much. president obama hasn't given up on his vacation, but he is getting regular briefings on developments in libya and spoke by phone with david cameron. he also went before cameras to sound a note of caution saying he wants to family size, quote, this is not over yet. >> the situation is still very fluid. there remains a degree of uncertainty and there is still regime elements who pose a threat. but this much is clear. the gadhafi regime is coming to an end. and the future of libya is in the hands of its people. >> for more perspective on libya and what this means, we're joined by two foreign policy experts. nicholas burns is a former u.s. ambassador to nato and robert kagam is senior fellow with the brookings institute. thank you both. let me start out with moammar gadhafi. are there any options for him at this point? nick, i'll start with you. >> i think there are very few options. even a couple weeks ago, he had the option of making some kind of a deal. the european government wanted to make a deal where he might even stay in the country if he gave up power. other governments are willing to take him. but if he's still in the country, i don't think there's any possibility of another government taking him. he's going to have to make a fateful decision. does he fight for the last person, does he hold out saddam hussein-like and hope his proceponents will fight with hi. or should he resign. and it's an important question because how the war ends will write the next chapter of libya's history. if it ends in vengeance and further blood shed, it will make it all too difficult for the rebel government to become a government of all the people of libya and to bipd up a country that has been brutalized over the whas last 40 years. >> robert, from what we know from knnomar gadhafi, he seem a fight to the bitter end kind of guy. what's your take? >> i wouldn't begin to try to understand the mind of moammar gadhafi. he will probably do lots of things this that we wouldn't anticipate. he had an opportunity to get out both gracefully, possibly live the rest of his life somewhere and allow his country to settle this in peace. he hasn't chosen that yet, but i think it would be foolish to try to predict what he'll do now. >> desperate men do desperate things. what is left to do militarily if anything? >> i think he's finished militarily. it's just a question of how bloody it will be on his way down. if it's true that both his sons have been captured, he can't be in a very strong position otherwise that wouldn't have happened. so i think it's just a question of how bloody it will be at the end. one can only pray that there's some semblance of humanity left in that man and he doesn't want to get more people killed in a futile gesture. >> we heard from the president who said basically that this all began with the u.n. security council resolution that was pushed by the u.s. and here's what he had to say about how this all came about. >> an unprecedented compaalitio was formed that include the united states and arab partners and launched an operation to save lives and stop gadhafi's forces. >> is that indeed, nick, what turned this toward the rebels? was it nato, was this resolution, is that where this began? is that where the end began, let me future it that wput it that . >> there were a lot of people, including me, very skeptical that the united states and nato should go into another arab country. but the brdpresident's right. the fact that the u.n. security council blessed the braoperatio the fact that there was a seize of benghazi i think is what really forced the president to make the decision and he matt right decision to put nato in. and i think in the last couple of weeks, nato found its putting. nato couldn't find a way to tip the balance in favor of the rebel ally apsz, begheny lie an the they fought valiantly. there's been a spectacular victory over the last couple days. it wouldn't have happened in my opinion without the u.s. and allies. >> the president was criticized throughout this, this is where the phrase leading from behind came. the u.s. went in there at first for the first week or so and then it pulled back and it let nato forces, other nato forces, do the bulk of the work. does that now not seem like the right decision? it's turning out okay, isn't it? >> yeah, you know, there were obviously many lives lost if this continuing could have happened faster, if we could have gotten to this point sooner, perhaps with greater u.s. military action early on. i think there probably would be some people alive today. but nevertheless, this has ban a success. it will go down in history as a success and ultimately by the way it will go down in misser to as a success of u.s. leadership. none of this would have been possible without the united states. not only the opening military effort, but also the ability to corral an international community to get a u.n. security council resolution, to get nato on board. and it is unpress tentcedented the arab nations also supporting it. and it's a real blow no american leadership in a time when a lot of people have doubted whether the united states can still play in a kind of constructive roll in these situations. >> let's me ask you one of the question that's out this. we do believe that there are stockpiles of mustard gas and other chemical weapons surface on air missiles. presumably someplace locked up, but do we know, do both of you and i'll start with you, nick, have confidence that we know where these are and that these rebels which really is a collection of people who took up arms almost spontaneously after one after the other, do we believe that they will safe guard these weapons or are you worried about it? >> i'm worried about it as are many others. i don't believe we can have confidence now because of course as gadhafi forces have been in control of all the munitions and weapons in libya for the most part, and so there has to be a transformation from the people's army into an effective government over the next several days and weeks if we're to secure -- if they're to secure the weaponries because if they were to get out and proliferate, it could do untold damage on the united states. and i think it points to another issue. the obama admin stragts made a big point of saying the europeans and arabs should be leading. and i think that needs to extend to the after math of the fighting. if there is going be an effort it rebuild, of course the united states should participate, but the europeans should do more because france and italy and spain have greater historical social economic interests and certain the arab country shoes do more to help the libyans. president obama was criticized. it turns tout have been a wise policy. it does spread the burden and the burden should still rest on the issue of weapons and on economic aid i think with the european allies and with the arab neighbors. >> that the point do you have another faith in whoever these rebels are and whoever their leaders are that they can keep all of this weaponry -- first of all, do we know where it is and that they can keep all this weaponry from falling in to the wrong hands and that could be terrorist organizations buying them from someone? >> i have faith in the good intentions. they've been very inclusive, very clear about who is in their ranks. but at the end of the day, i don't know what their capacities are to find this stuff and to secure it. we will have to talk about some of the difficult issues like what kind of international roll will have to be mayed in libya once gadhafi has fallen. economic aid certainly, but we're going to be facing questions pretty early on about whether there has to be something more including perhaps some international forces that can go in and secure weaponry if the rebels are unable to do so. >> thank you both so much for your expertise tonight. >> thank. >> thank you. ahead, the national hurricane center warns irene may be a major hurricane by the time it closes in it on the east coast this week. what residents should be doing to prepare. and what will libya look like if gadhafi's four decade rule comes to an end? that's next. 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>> i interviewed him several times. >> everybody has a bizarre moammar gadhafi story and i know you've met him, as well, fran. so let me ask you both just as a start off and more specific, and that is what is he apt to do now? it seems to me you can be saddam hussein and crawl in a hole and help they don't find you, you kill yourself, you are killed or you give up. >> this was a man who had and a half navigated his reentry. he's now gone. the main son left to advise who runs one of the key military units that is protecting tripoli and the inner circle. and he's the one person who will be with his father. and so when you look at what are the scenarios, the military option seems far more likely than some kind of negotiated surrender. >> and you think there's more fight left in gadhafi? >> potentially more fight, but it's either capture and kill rather than some kind negotiation. >> i think he's going to fight it the bitter end, but i did from the very beginning. i never thought he would negotiate his way out. he has a messianic vision of himself. and i think that he desires if he can't remain in power, he said it himself, he wants hiss flood to darken the soil of libya and he wants to go towndos a martyr. >> so if you're sitting in syria tonight or supposedly you're in bahrain and you're a leadernd you're looking at what's happening to gadhafi, is there a signal in there? >> i think this is the beginning of phase two, that we not only the pressure on on gadhafi, but the international community from washington to tokyo getting together and saying that assad is no longer a legitimate leader and then you also have the trial playing out of mubarak that awful these things are signaling and injecting a new kind offed a dren wherein, a new energy in the arab uprisings and that we're likely to see things bubble. >> message to the streets maybe even more to the leaders. >> i think that's right. if you're a part of syrian opposition, you look at this and say i thought time was not on my side. maybe time -- many it's okay that our consistency and persistence over time may be our great strength and may still force change. so i think there's still inspirational in to the streets of syria. >> and what about the template looking at the international community new the u.n., getting a resolution, nato then acting on that resolution with the u.s. spear heading but the back seat thing and putting nato out in front without the u.s. being the only part of nato, how does that serve as a template for any place else in the middle east or are these just all such different places in a that it d fit anywhere else? >> libya was a special case because of gadhafi's year rerra behavior. pam a.m. 103. >> so it was okay not to like him. >> and fran and i probably disagree on this, the united states got an arab league endorsement for international intervention and went to the united nations and worked through the world e's largest military alliance. this is not something that the united states and its allies could use for example in a place like syria. this is a one time deal. and it's a good thing for the obama administration that he doesn't face this again, but libya's -- >> this is a special circumstance. >> and remember gadhafi had alienated other heads of state in the arab world x most he , m especially, the king of sauddy arabia. he was not viewed as one of them. that's different with assad. there are close ties with syria. so getting the arab league to invite you in works in libya to robin's point, but not to syria. >> so talk to me about what lies ahead. because we just have been told over these months these are shopkeepers and some professionals and then young children and they take 18, 19, 20-year-olds, taking up weapons and this is a people's rebellion and i'm thinking how do they now -- they have to put together a government and we've seen in egypt that's not all that easy. >> libya is very different from egypt and tunisia. this is a place where they've had more than five months of a traditional national council that's had to do everything from work with a wide array of political players and also learn how to collect the garbage, that it has some practical experience in governments. this is also the one country of the 22 arab members that has a very small population, 6.5 million people. and enormous oil well. this is the one place that could actually provide tangible rewards and economic gains, a country that now has 30% unemployment it in rebuilding the country and has the finances to do it. and that's not something you find in egypt with 85 million people and no oil wells. there's no other place that has the things going for it that libya does even though it's got 140 tribes, and a lot of differences that will make the transition messy. >> so give me the other side of that. >> i'm not quite so optimistic. the bureaucracy and organization that makes a government work, it is true it say the transitional national council has had these months of experience, but there will be spoilers in this. as gadhafi forces melt away and dessert him and take off their uniforms and go back into the civilian population, we have to be worried and the tnc's got to be worried about a potential insurgency. take off your uniform, melt in the population, live to fight another day. you hope that you don't see that in libya, but they're certainly vulnerable. >> and the looting that we saw in the aftermath of iraq, that's -- seems there's so many variables here for what is now once again a very young country. >> but this is also a place where the transition has been enacted by the locals. this is not where a country where a foreign army has come in and alienated the locals questioning the intent of a foreign nation where al qaeda could exploit a foreign presence. is this a country where most of the action, august though backed by nato in terms of air power, has played out on on the ground by nato in terms of air power, has played out on on the ground. s question is you can get the different militias that have played out, you can get these two sides traditionally different part of the country, you can get them to koopts. and th cooperate. this is where the international community can play an important role and reminding them what democracy really is. >> so you would agree there is a core there that wasn't really there in iraq? >> they have the oil wealth has rob bensite sit sites. >> tourism. >> right. >> huge tourism. >> fran, rosh bin, thank you so much for joining us. our next guest has met face to face with gadhafi as well and he has serious concerns about libya's stockpile of chemical weapons. or creates another laptop bag or hires another employee, it's not just good for business -- it's good for the entire community. at bank of america, we know the impact that local businesses have on communities, so we're helping them with advice from local business experts and extending $18 billion in credit last year. that's how we're helping set opportunity in motion. i don't always have time to eat like i should. that's why i like glucerna shakes. they have slowly digestible carbs to help minimize blood sugar spikes, which can help lower a1c. [ male announcer ] glucerna. helping people with diabetes find balance. the top democrat on the house select intel against committee says u.s. actions in libya protected america's national security as well as security worldwide. but what happens now to the weapons of mass destruction? the congressman from baltimore joining us. i wanted to read something there your statement that caught our attention. you said we must also ensure radical extremist groups do not take control of the country. libya has a large stockpile of chemical weapons and explosives that must not fall into the wrong hands. i have to telling that you i spoke with two people recently who said what chemical weapons. he handed them over. the man's fired two scuds in four months. he doesn't have them. do we know for sure there are mustard gas chemical weapons stockpiled there? >> based on all the information that i have, he has a lot of weapons. and we're very concerned that he does have those weapons. we were surprised he didn't use those weapons throughout this whole exercise. >> and so you can tell me like what are we talking about? because i thought me a deal on get rid of weapons of mass destruction. >> you have mustard gas, man pads, different chemical weapons that he could use that could be very serious. but we have been keeping an eye on that, when i say we, nato and the coalition. but he's a very danger us person. i met with him and the first thing he said, there were three or four of us from congress, and he said why did you attack me? and i said i don't agree with you. you were involved in the killing of a college student from baltimore in the pan am plane. so let's not go down that road. and then he stopped. and he also knows fwlish, but he mads use an interpreter. and and i think all of us felt he was very unstable. >> so you through whatever means and methods you have and again you are the ranking member on the intelligence committee, you believe that there are large stockpiles of chemical weapon, i'm assuming that will there are others in the u.s. government that know this. come we know where they are and have we done anything to safe guard them? >> well krorks want to get into some of that as classified. what i did want to say is there is going to be a lot of transition that we have to be concerned about. right now know two of gadhafi's sons are in southern libya. and if you look at what happened in iran, we don't wa iraq, we don't want to make the same mistakes. we fired the military who were trained. they became the opposition. they had weapons and it caused a serious problem for a long time in iraq. and we have to make sure that this transition goes well and it's going to take a lot of time and effort to do this. and we also don't need to create another iraq. >> as far as i know, there wouldn't be -- if the rebels win, there is not an army per se or at least a professional army left behind, so who guards those stockpiles? is it important enough for the u.s. or nato, people with boots on the ground and guard wherever this weaponry is? >> that's a lot of what intelligence is about and getting the information and making sure that the right moves are made by the people who will be there. we should not put boots on the ground. and i praise the president for making that decision. it should be a coalition and other countries need to be involved in the transition that is going to happen in libya, including money. we just can't be in charge of everything and with other issues that we have, we're still in afghanistan, we need to look at this. but our national security could be at risk here just as any other country. we don't want radical terrorists to take control when taking advantage of this situation. >> the national transitional government's ambassador to the u.s. just told cnn that one of gadhafi's sons that has has been captured was, quote, hijacked somehow managed to escape from where he was being guarded by rebels. what does that tell you about the ability of the rebel forces to maintain a calm to stop looting, perhaps protect these weaponry stockpiles? >> it's a wake-up call. just because gadhafi goes doesn't mean things will change right away. again, let's learn from the lessons of iraq. there was looting when finally we were able to take control of rag. we have to make sure that that doesn't occur. and there will be a lot of different extremist groups that will try to take advantage of the situation. but we hope that we along with the coalition will have enough intelligence to be able to make a move to make sure that we take control of those weapons of mass deconstruction because they could be very dangerous. and that's another thing that you just -- gadhafi's soon who escaped, this group, the rebel group, is not very so he physical if i indicated, so they'll need help in trying to stand up and bring peace to the government and the people who eventually want their rights and they want liberty and democracy. >> let's me ask you about a than there your sdwridistrict, matthn dyke, he's been missing in libya since march, 31 years old, he's from baltimore. he was in libya to write a book about this uprising. first please tell us what you know about him and do you think that this obviously -- i think you must be hoping at any rate in the rest of tripoli falls that you can find matthew van dyke. >> sure. we were very concerned about matthew van dyke. a state senator contacted me and shed mrs. van dyke was going to call me. our office got called right away and we attempted to find matthew. the last time that he was seen was right around the time that the coalition started to get involved in the battle with gadhafi. we didn't hear -- i was concerned that he might have been killed. as it turned out, we finally -- he was finally identified and the hungarian government has been our liaison and nefs a poli he was in a prison. we know there are a lot of people in prisons, there's been one where there's been a prison break, but that's still a very unstable situation and we want to make sure go whatever we can to bring an american back to the united states who has been in a prison. he went over there as a journalist. but the good news is that we know that he's alive and he's been identified being in prison in libya. >> i want to thank you so much congressman. we appreciate your time. hope to talk to you again. >> okay, candy. we are keeping a close eye on libya. cnn has word that another moammar gadhafi son who was supposed to be under arrest has been seen at a hotel in tripoli. matthew chance will call in live with a report shortly. 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[ screeching ] the s.u.v. is back. right now, get $2,000 cash allowance or 0% apr financing on the 2011 dodge durango. a network of possibilities. in here, the planned combination of at&t and t-mobile would deliver our next generation mobile broadband experience to 55 million more americans, many in small towns and rural communities, giving them a new choice. we'll deliver better service, with thousands of new cell sites... for greater access to all the things you want, whenever you want them. it's the at&t network... and what's possible in here is almost impossible to say. breaking news from from tripoli with word that yet another of moammar gadhafi's sons who was supposed to be under arrest has been seen at the hotel. matthew, where did you -- first, where are you and where did you see gadhafi's son? >> reporter: in the hobby of the hotel where we've all been hold up for the past several weeks with all the fighting around tripoli. there are many reports over the course of the last day or so that the oldest son of colonel gadhafi has been i think ditinde kr krim court. they're reporting that he has been taken by the rebels. they confirmed they had word that this is the case. but i can tell you within the past ten minutes or so, there was a big white armored land cruiser and saying he's inside that car and just about to drive up. so i knocked on the window, you can open the door, you know, we want to see your face. we want to make sure it's you. and he opened the door, turned the lights on inside the back of this armored land cruiser and it was indeed him. he was bearded. he looked quite thin. i took some video. he told me he said moammar gadhafi remains in tripoli. he said it was a trick luring the rebels in to tripoli, he said that now gadhafi forces had broken the backbone of the rebellion and given them a hard time. and then the door closed and he sped off in an armored convoy into the night, into the capital. so these reports that he was in the custody of the rebels and they were poised apparently to hand him over to the international criminal court. >> so matthew, let me try to separate truth from propaganda. for sure he was riding around freely. he says that his father is in tripoli. but what about the part that they pushed the rebelses out, that this was all a as far as? do y farce. >> do you see any sign that the rebels are not in control of the 90% that we were told they were in control of? >> it's really difficult for me in this hotel to give a good assessment as to-to-whto what e rebels are in control. they're definitely not in control of this area, nor have they been from the start of this crisis. this is where gadhafi's main com pain is located. there are area keep installat n installatio installations, as well. there have been ferocious fighting all over the city particularly in this area, but i can tell you quite definitely that they're not in control in this area. it's difficult to draw from what he said any real firm as ssessmt assessment. clearly there is a large rebel presence, but what saif gadhafi was saying now there's been a counter attack and the backbone of the rebels has been broken. i don't know to what september that's the reality of what's happening or to what september that's just a line that this oldest son of colonel gadhafi is spilling to the international media. i don't know. but nefs a defiant mood and he was a free man. >> matthew chance, why we have you and so many other reporters to give us the news. thank you so much for being there for us. we appreciate it. coming up, hurricane irene is causing flooding and landslides in the came rib would he rib bee an. we'll get an update. 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[ male announcer ] ask your doctor if cialis for daily use is right for you. for a 30-tablet free trial offer, go to cialis.com. anderson cooper 360 is coming up. anderson, i know you talked to a witness to the fighting in tripoli. what you can tell us? >> and i know you were just talking to matthew chance who had that remarkable breaking news who said saif gadhafi is alive. opposition had claimed he'd been captured. raises a lot of questions. there have been street to street firefights in the capital. unconfirmed reports tonight of a new round of nato air strikes. we'll talk with a young woman in tripoli who believes she is on the cusp of tastie ining freedo the first time. >> i'm 23 years old and i lived all my life under the control of him. my feeling now, i'm very, very close to my freedom. so i will just -- the moment that i will take it, i would live every womt moment of my lid we doubt his control and his son's control, as well. >> of course we'll also check back with matthew chance or try to get back in touch with him. he's trapped in that hotel in gadhafi's territory. try to get an update on the appearance of his son. >> we will be there. thank thanks, anderson. hurricane irene is causing major flooding and landslides. also the national hurricane center warns eye rain may be a major hurricane by the time it close ngs on the u.s. east coast. chad myers is tracking the storm. so, chad, when does it hit the u.s. coast? >> well, if it does, it will be thursday or friday for florida. or friday or saturday for the carolinas. or saturday or sunday for massachusetts. it could be a very big turn as the storm continues to get stronger. and turns to the right as they always do. that big right hook. but right now, the storm is much stronger than it was just three hours ago. it was 80 miles an hour. now it is a 100-mile-an-hour category 2. this literally justup da update we got on the air. that means it will probably be a category 2 tomorrow and into that category 3 which means major hurricane status making a run either at south florida, got to look at this cone, it could miss the u.s. all together, it could run right into south florida, or somewhere probably more likely in the carolinas. maybe northern florida or georgia. but these storms tend to keep turning to the right. and as it away, in fact it may completely miss the u.s. that's not the forecast. the forecast is for a u.s. landfall of a major hurricane on friday. there's the storm right there, the eye moving away from san juan, still very significant flooding going on in san juan, puerto rico, at this hour. it's been flooding all day long. trees are down, over a million people without power in puerto rico as we speak right now from all of this. we do know that there is a hurricane hunter aircraft in it. this is a google map. it has flown through the eye of the storm right there. it has found that the pressure has gone down significantly in the past two or three hours. that means the storm is rapidly intensifying. that means it's going to be a major hurricane fairly soon. candy. >> you've got your work cut out for you for the next couple of days. thanks so much, chad myers watching hurricane irene for us. up next, can the u.s. military secure libya's weapons of mass destruction if they're there during this political upheaval. we'll have an update from the pentagon after the break. at exxonmobil we know the answer is yes. when we design any well, the groundwater's protected by multiple layers of steel and cement. most wells are over a mile and a half deep so there's a tremendous amount of protective rock between the fracking operation and the groundwater. natural gas is critical to our future. at exxonmobil we recognize the challenges and how important it is to do this right. a living, breathing intelligence that's helping drive the future of business. in here, inventory can be taught to learn. ♪ machines have a voice. ♪ medical history follows you. it's the at&t network -- a network of possibilities... committed to delivering the most advanced mobile broadband experience to help move business... forward. ♪ ♪ [ country ] [ man ] help move business... ♪ gone, like my last paycheck ♪ gone, gone away ♪ gone, like my landlord's smile ♪ ♪ gone, gone away ♪ my baby's gone away with dedicated claims specialists... and around-the-clock service, travelers can help make things better quicker. will your auto and home insurer... be there when you need them most? for an agent or quote, call 800-my-coverage... or visit travelers.com. 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[ slap! slap! slap! slap! slap! ] [ male announcer ] your favorite foods fighting you? fight back fast with tums. calcium rich tums goes to work in seconds. nothing works faster. ♪ tum tum tum tum tums recapping this hour's breaking news, moammar gadhafi's sons say he made an appearance outside a hotel more than a day after rebel forces captured him. saif said moammar gadhafi, his father, is still in tripoli. he also told reporters rebels had not in fact taken over 90% of tripoli. always an interesting situation over there. we have reporters all over the place and here. we want to check in with pentagon correspondent chris lawrence and foreign affairs correspondent jill dougherty at the state department. jill, let me begin with you. you've been reporting that in the final -- even up to the final moments, moammar gadhafi was reaching out trying to buy time. tell us about these negotiations, if they even were -- if they even got to that point. >> well, it was people who were close to gadhafi. six people in fact who had been in contact with u.s. officials before and we are told by jeff feldman, the assistant secretary of state for near east affairs that all of a sudden there were these frantic calls coming from these six men. they were saying, look, we want to negotiate. we want to negotiate. and when it came down to it, u.s. officials said negotiate over what? they did not want to negotiate over moammar gadhafi leaving. so at that point the u.s. said come back when you get real. but the u.s. officials took it as a sign of desperation. they say that what they really wanted to do, the libyans, was to stop the rebel attack on the city of tripoli. >> chris, to you, we've been talking throughout the day about chemical weapons or stockpiles that moammar gadhafi might have. i thought many people were under the impression that he had given up weapons of mass destruction. what do we know about what he has and what's been done to try to safeguard it? >> yeah, candy. the arms control association estimates right now that libya still has about ten tons of mustard gas, the deadly blister agent. we're told by a nato official that nato has been using satellites, drones and other aircraft to keep a sort of direct eye on where some of this material, the mustard gas and other weapons of mass destruction are being stored. we've also been told that the u.s. and other countries have had people in contact working with the national transitional council to try to help them in securing some of these sites. they have been in the country over the past several weeks and have been in contact with ntc leaders, and the hope is that none of this material would sort of leave the control of the ntc right now. >> chris, we want to show our audience some video, this just coming into us, in reuters. this is, and i'm seeing it for the first time, but in -- we are going to see saif al islam who is on the shoulders of some people here. you've looking at this as i'm looking at it. and we have been told all along that this man had been captured by the rebels. now, we are in a part of tripoli that we know is under gadhafi force control. but what does it say to either one of you that the rebels said they had saif and another brother in fact and they apparently don't? who are we to believe in all of this? >> well, in some ways you have to believe your eyes if you see saif on the shoulders of people outside, clearly not captured. i think it does sort of call into question exactly how organized the hierarchy of the rebel forces. >> this is saif here that we're seeing here, chris. i know you can't see it. >> i can see it now. i mean it does call into question if he's out and about, you know, clearly you have to believe your eyes if he's standing there and he's out in public talking. and it also, you know, lends new credence to what some u.s. officials have said is a concern that gadhafi may launch a last-ditch attack. that the rebels are not in complete control yet and that, you know, this combined with the fact that a scud missile was launched near the city of cert today show that gadhafi's forces are still viable and still very much have a chance to mount an offensive. >> jill in, our last 50 seconds or so, let's assume that gadhafi goes at some point, although the president is right, it's not over yet. what's next for the rebels? >> well, if that happens, then the transitional national council, the ntc, puts together an interim government and that's kind of
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