the stage for another debate. voters took to the polls and sent a clear message, hands off my body, my books and my rights. on monday, donald trump was called the stand to testify in a 250 million dollar civil fraud trial that could break up his family's business empire. predictably he was -- he gave long winded responses and avoided answering questions directly. instead he took that opportunity to disparage laetitia james. this woman, the internee general of new york who brought that lawsuit. the judge presiding over the case who will hand out the punishment against the company. at multiple points on monday, he had to ask the former presidents attorneys to control their client when trump was on the stand. at one, point when asked about one of his properties, trump declared, quote, i'm not a windmill person. which was odd because nobody asked him about windmills. during another line of questioning's about his financial statements from 2021, trump replied, quote, i was so busy in the white house with china, russia, keeping the country safe. and. quote at which the lawyer from the attorney generals office interrupted him and said, quote, you are not the president in 2021. trump's blustery and contentious behavior, even well under oath in a court of law, is hardly surprising. trump's erratic comments on line, in court and at his rallies have taken on a different tenor in the last few weeks since this particular trial started. about five weeks ago. even though there are still four arguably more serious criminal trials coming up that threaten his freedom, this particular civil fraud case in new york threatens to destroy his livelihood. it also threatens to shatter the public image of a wealthy businessman that he has carefully crafted for himself for decades. even though many of his ventures failed, he was forced to file for bankruptcy multiple times, to trump's credit the persona that he has created has gotten him far, all the way to the white house. it helped him to develop a loyal and developed cult of personality which is today helping him stay on the presidential primary field. tuesday's off-year election results in another surprisingly strong so showing for democrats signaling that there is some issues that are motivating voters across the country. the runaway success of ballot measures to enshrine abortion rights into the ohio state constitution means that it remains a major weakness for republicans. some on the right have also tried to stoke the culture wars recently. liberals and moderates push back against it which results and big losses for candidates backed by the ultraconservative mobs for liberty. they are the book banning group. these are key issues that donald trump has not yet to answer yet or's take a firm position on in the cycle. on abortion alone trump offers contradictory statements. he touts the significant role he plays in the ability to, quote, kill roe v. wade. he also said that florida six-week abortion ban was, quote, a terrible mistake. that resulted in pushback from antiabortion group. trump was absent again for the third debate on wednesday night in miami. he dodged another opportunity to answer policy questions. at some point he will be forced to answer to the general public and face questions on a number of issues that will be determining factors in next year's very important election. joining me now, david, jolly former republican from florida and msnbc political analyst also with us, jonathan allen. senior national political reporter for nbc news. thank you for being with us. david, i will start with you because you and i were incidentally together in this room when the news of that civil fraud trial came down. the idea that a summary judgment had been issued. everything we've been watching for the last few weeks has been to determine the penalty that the trump organization is going to pay. you made the point that sticks with me from that day. the creation myth of donald trump was broken that day. i have since rephrase that by saying that we learned that the emperor has no clothes. stephanie told me she didn't want that image in her head, so we're not gonna say that anymore. tell me why donald trump's unhinged as a result of what is going on in new york. >> we ali, i'm not a windmill person, but let me try to answer your question. [laughter] >> as you and i talked on the day that the judgment was handed down, this one hits at the image that donald trump has cultivated for himself over decades that arguably allow him to become elected president of the united states. that is, in his, words of the most successful businessman in the whole world. everything he touches turns to gold. the values that -- the properties that he has, they might be valued at 10 million but he knows that he could sell them for a billion. that is hooey, is that is the guy who landed his helicopter at the iowa state fair and gave rides to people and said, i'm one of you because i came from nothing. another lie. i made myself one of the most successful businessman in the world. this case says donald trump is a fraud. he is a liar. and he has lied to the american people about his own image. he has lied to the accountants, the, banks he's lied to the regulators. so right now it is an oversight, he's a fraud. i think what is fascinating about this is the notion that he's a fraud, a judgment of a civil court will not likely change the impact on republican voters. however, donald trump's behavior in this moment will remind people why they voted for joe biden over donald trump. if we phosphoric do a case in which his liberty is on the line in which he may go to person, we have seen this behavior in a civil case, imagine that scenario, that's where a trump biden rematch lines up very favorably for the current president. >> how are you evaluating what is going on in the last week? you have trump whose behavior, he is saying weird things. the windmills part of, it you, know that is the least of. it he is doing a lot of weird stuff. you also had a poll that showed he could win in five swing states. you also had an election that seems to demonstrate that americans seem to be in favor of democracy and don't want their rights taken away. it is whiplash this week. >> yes, it is a lot to process all at once, ali. i think a couple of things just sort of on the broad mainstream of what is going on. i think we are a year out from the election and it is not settled yet but there is certainly reason to believe that donald trump would be competitive against joe biden. it is not just one poll, all of the polls that i've seen at a national level, when you look at state level polls, these two candidates are close together right now. and that should not be shocking from the last election in terms of the partisan split in the country's win. biden won by about 43,000 votes over three states. if you look at the voters and what they've done in these elections, certainly what they've done in recent year elections, midterm elections, there is a strong case to be made that for instance with the abortion rights side is energized. you didn't see that red wave that was expected in the midterm election. it did not materialize because democrats went out to the polls to try to secure the abortion rights and to vote out people who would not do that. when there is big yearly elections, they tend to bring all the people out, or a lot more of the people. we will have to see and what happens in a. year i think right now you're looking at a close race for president. >> i just want to show, you were looking at live pictures of the national cemetery with president biden and the first lady marking armistice day. this is the day at the end of world war with two in which the fighting on the western front fell. the allies took the western front. it is generally marked in most western countries on november 11th at the 11th minute of the 11th hour. but over the next few minutes we are going to see the president laying reef and we are going to get some remarks from him which we will monitor very closely. we will keep that up what we talk about this. david jolly, at the debate on wednesday, that soundbite machine, vivek ramaswamy, i want to ask my producers because i don't have a full view of it, but can we see the president -- we saw the soundbite machine from vivek ramaswamy talking about how the republicans have lost elections stretching back to 2018. and then he wanted the person responsible for all of that to come up to the stage and resign. i thought, is this the moment that he calls on donald trump to come up to the stage and resign? it wasn't. he called on with rhonda mcdaniel to come up to the stage and resign. which is -- this is the weird part about what's going on in the republican party. no one will go after donald trump for it. >> yeah, that is exactly, right. alison's donald trump has been on the scene we've seen thousands of republicans politicians try to emulate him with the angry brush populism. we've seen few tried to emulate him as a carnival bargain. that is what vivek has become. a big moment for dickey haley in the debate was she called him scum for bringing her own daughter into the debate. but what we continue to see from this field is an unwillingness to challenge donald trump which is why donald trump is up 30 or 40 points. i think vivek is a side story at this circus. ron desantis's campaign is largely. over everything hangs on iowa. nikki haley has emerged as a clear alternative to donald trump. it is a 20 to 30 point race. we go back to the litigation, does anything -- ahead of the republican primary? it appears. not nikki haley is now the alternative. >> i am going to just ask you gentlemen foot to pause for a moment. we will now see the president and the vice president of the united states we putting their hands over their heart and marking armistice day at 11 a.m., 11 minutes after 11 on november 11th. let's just listen to that. ♪ ♪ ♪ [silence] [silence] ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ [crowd chanting] [whispering] [silence] we will continue to monitor the rest of the seminary that concluded with the playing of taps which is played on military bases to mark the end of the day. it is played on occasions like this to mark those members of the armed forces who paid the ultimate price with their lives. this is of course the commemoration of the german signing of the armistice on november 11th of 1918, around the world this is typically known as armistice day. in the united states is referred to as a veterans day. in commonwealth countries it is referred to as remembrance day. it is a federal holiday in the united states. i will go back to john and representative jolly. we will keep an eye on what goes on at that ceremony in case the president says something we want to pick up on. in an article this week headlined, trump says the primary is over but he is still fighting his rivals like it is not, you wrote quote, there is no question that trump has a commanding lead over the field in both national surveys and state by state polling. yet, with desantis fosing the bulk of his money and energy on the january 15th first caucuses in iowa, trump is focused at least one eye on the florida governor. this at times that i has shifted towards the former u.s. ambassador to the united nations, nikki haley, whom he calls bird brain. talk to me about this. nikki haley is increasingly talked about by more and more candidates as someone who is at least attracting the attention of donors who were otherwise thinking about rhonda santos as the recipient of the money. her debate performances are not bad. >> her debate performances have been very strong. if you look at the three debates, there's no question that overall she has been the strongest debater. you could quibble that did she went all three of them? or did desantis have a better night this week than she did? but she has been very strong. the trajectory of these two campaigns has been that desantis started off on the top of a cliff where he had donald trump incite. his campaign fell off a cliff. and nikki haley started at the bottom of that cliff and has been trying to climb up it. so you, know they are candidates who have been moving in opposite directions and at this point they find themselves tied for second in iowa. in the most recent nbc poll you see nikki haley leaning -- leading new hampshire -- though she trails trump by a wide margin as both of them do in iowa. desantis is still second in the national polling but if you look at those important early states, what you see is movement from haley, momentum for haley. the larger picture is the question of whether they are simply fighting it out for the consolation prize of second place. a distant second place to trump. right now that certainly looks like what is going on. >> hey david, as you are driving around whatever city you happen to be, and you see these offering 5% on your money. you try to get a, mortgage you find out is 8% for 30 year mortgage. last night movies cut americas rating from stable to negative. faced yet again on the fact that we are a weekend away from a possible government shutdown. these things actually matter and we are looking at a house of representatives that just cannot seem to tie its shoelaces to get the day started. >> that is right. ali, with all eyes on the horse race polling of this week, what was underneath the horse race was americans are very concerned about the economy. you see joe biden, someone who is pursuing economic policies to try to lift up main street, lift up all people despite headwinds in the economy. what you see on capitol hill from republicans is a willingness to do more harm to shut the government down. they had don't have a plan currently to keep the government open. they have not actually resolved their own unity plan to take to the hakeem jeffrey, schumer and biden. this will be the first test for mike johnson. how much pain is he willing to extract from the american people to ultimately lose what will be a legislative fight that he can't win? the masses are not on his. side it's a shameful moment for house republicans but we'll see what the new speaker house in store. >> another busy. big thanks to both of. you i appreciated. former congressman, david jolly, and john eilat, reporter for nbc news. six weeks ago hamas took more than 240 hostages into gaza. most of them remain there. i will speak with a man whose mother, and israeli peace activist, is among the taken. we have today's meeting of the velshi banned book club set against a cold winter at new york city, recently torn apart by those of tempura levant attacks. although reversed told tells the story -- there love as a media and all encompassing but like all good love stories, it is complicated. despite being raised just miles, apart they are from completely different worlds. leota is from israel, he'll me from the occupied west bank. all the reverse demands the reader look squarely at the other and see them for the person they are. for their humanity, for their heart. do not miss today's velshi banned book club. [camera shutter sfx] introducing ned's plaque psoriasis. [camera shutter sfx] he thinks his flaky, red patches are all people see. otezla is the #1 prescribed pill to treat plaque psoriasis. [ned?] it can help you get clearer skin and reduce itching and flaking. with no routine blood tests required. doctors have been prescribing it for nearly a decade. otezla is also approved to treat psoriatic arthritis. don't use otezla if you're allergic to it. serious allergic reactions can happen. otezla may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting. some people taking otezla had depression, suicidal thoughts, or weight loss. upper respiratory tract infection and headache may occur. [crowd gasp] ♪♪ with clearer skin, movie night is a groovy night. [ting] ♪♪ live in the moment. ask your doctor about otezla. is it possible my network could take my business live in the moment. to the next level? it is with comcast business. powering all your devices with gig-speed wifi. and you get fast downloads and uploads. pick it up! pick it up! oh we got this! because it's powered by the next generation 10g network. more speed for your business? it's not just possible. it's happening. get started for $59.99 a month for 12 months. plus, ask how to get an $800 prepaid card with a qualifying internet bundle. as the world's focus has been comcast business, powering possibilities. trained on gaza and israel over the last, month there has been a litany of incidents in recent days signaling that the middle east conflict could escalate and become a much more global crisis. on wednesday, the u.s. carried out a, quote, self-defense strike on a weapon storage facility in eastern syria that the pentagon says was being used by iran's islamic revolutionary guard corps. the department of defense believes the targeted facility was being used to house ammunition and explosives. this is the second time in recent weeks that the united states has attacked targets in syria. this week's strike is said to be in response to wage against u.s. personnel base in iraq and syria by iran-backed forces. meanwhile, the u.s. military surveillance drone that was flying over yemen's airspace was shot down off the countries coast by houthi rebels who are also backed by iran. the u.s. officials say that the military is still analyzing that incident. joining me now from tehran, iran, is nbc's aly rousey, good evening to you. we've seen a number of incidents enroll involving iraq -backed militias involving the united states. is there a danger of this israel hamas such a asian escalating into a more regional perhaps global incident? >> hi, ali. iranian proxy groups have certainly stepped up their attacks on u.s. -- following the hamas attack. u.s. coalition bases in iraq and syria have been attacked at least 40 times since october 17th. most recently, as you mentioned, the u.s. military drone was shot down off the coast of yemen by iranian-backed houthi forces. that follows a string of missiles and drones fired by the houthis over the last few weeks along the red sea, heading towards israel. they were all intercepted or fell short of their targets. the u.s. retaliated by launching airstrikes in syria, targeting infrastructure used by the irgc and it's -- the strikes targeted weapons and ammunition storage facilities. secretary austin and secretary blinken warned iran not to do anything else. hitting weapons depots and warning iran to back off has not really been an effective deterrent. iran has calibrated its strategy very carefully over the decades. just four days like this, it uses proxies to advance its own address, pressuring them to -- hitting syria and iraq while getting hezbollah to do just enough from southern lebanon to show it is helping hamas. all of this is done with a thin veneer of plausible deniability. but iran has also so far been reluctant to push the envelope far enough to invite a massive u.s. reprisal. all we the attacks have been low level, no fatalities, minor injuries. the most serious exchanges have been between iran's most prized proxy, hezbollah, that has been involved in cross border skirmishes with israel. although they have cost lives, they've been fairly low level. the speech last, week, ali many people thought he would make a declaration of war, given ultimatum, instead he made it clear that hamas -- but cavalry was not coming and is because nasrallah's boss in tehran does not want to sacrifice its jewel in the crown of proxies for palestine. not in this stage of, anyway. all of that to say that the stakes are as high as the tension. there is plenty rooms for miscalculation that can dramatically changed the playing field. houthi missile could hit a target in israel. a militia attack could kill dozens of servicemen. if the u.s. decides to hold iran responsible and moves to punish the islamic republic, who knows what could happen next? iran is walking a dangerous line here. it keeps pushing its proxies forward to prod and poke america to put israel under pressure but says hey, listen, they are acting of their own accord. at some point the u.s. patients may run out. they may hold iran accountable and then that could then widen this conflict to draw iran in and the u.s. that has been fighting in the shadows. they could be fighting directly. that would be catastrophic for the region, ali? >> this is a remarkable context that we needed. thank you as always, my friend. nbc's ali arouzi in toronto. on october, seventh hamas took more than 240 people into gaza. they've been held hostage ever since. one of those people is the canadian israeli peace activist, vivian silver, this, woman 74 years old is believed to have been abducted from her home in kibbutz be'eri in -- october the 7th. much of the kibbutz was incinerated. many of her neighbors were murdered, if they weren't also abducted. her son, yinatan zeigen we, along with their brother have been waiting for news from their mother while doing everything in their power to help get her back. in an interview with the washington post, yinatan zeigen shared the last text messages he exc with his mother as the kibbutz was under attack. >> where is our army? she wrote. are there still shots he wrote at 10:17. there is an eerie silence, she responded. 10:30, gate we might be witnessing a massacre. i'm telling everyone how much i lovend he less than cam to have you in le. at 10:41 she wrote there in the house. now to nathan road mom, 10:54 she responded, i, here i think they've moved on. i'm afraid to breathe, she wrote. i have no words. jonathan wrote i am with you. i feel you. she wrote, are you ow? mom? she didn't respond. within a few hours her phone had been geo located in gaza. i spoke to yanatan when i was in israel a few weeks ago. he told me his mother is a peace activist who dedicated her adult life to lobbying for peaceful solutions to the conflict. giving up on reconciliation between israelis and palestinians was never an option for her. joining me now once again is yanatan zeigen. yanatan, thank you for being with us. normally we plan for our interviews here but i don't have a plan for my conversation with you because it has not had a plan since the beginning. you and i just contacted each other and we said let's talk, and we talked. i just wanted to check in with. you i want to understand how you are feeling and what you are thinking right now. >> i am moving back and forth between optimism and hope. and discouragement and pessimism. there has been a lot of talk about something brewing, a new deal. on the other hand the israeli army is still very much inside gaza. they are fighting hard there. i am not sure that these two things can coincide. i am alert. >> what can you do, yanatan? what can you in your brother? do i know you're trying to do things because there's no worse feeling than when a family member is in trouble than not being able to do anything. what have you've been able to do? what are you doing that makes it feel like you are getting forward momentum? >> it's the right analysis, doing is partly self care in our situation. but we hope that what we are trying to do, raise awareness and keep this on the agenda, we hope that it is working and pressing the people who are involved too stay involved and to push harder for the hostages being released and for a solution to be thought of. >> when you and i talked, you said that you hoped they google who your mom is because they will know that -- where she stands on these things. knowing who she is, what do you imagine she is doing? what do amanda carve perceptions are looking like? there are some people in your country who can have conversations with people in gaza. she was very much one of those people. >> yes. i think we have to differentiate. she had a lot of conversation with peace activist and civilians in gaza during the years. she is now being held by a militant organization. i think it is a different discourse. but i can imagine her over there taking on a role and being -- as much as the language permits, being significant there and trying to think of how to get out of the situation. and to take care of the other hostages. if she is willing in her body and mind still, which i hope so. >> when we talked, i will say, i am remarkably taken by your -- how centered you are about this because i cannot believe that i would be if someone in my family were being held. you said that some of that is influenced by your mother's sense of empathy and commitment to peace. how has that held out in the last five weeks since you and i have talked? how are you feeling. ? are you still feeling centered in your philosophy about life and peace? we >> maybe it is ironic but i think it has only grown stronger. my conviction for peace. because as she used to say, and i agree, it's the only way for us to be secure and to lead good lives. , it is through pace, we're only brings death and destruction. or you can see it now. it is a horrendous human tragedy all around. on the seventh for the israelis and during the past month in gaza, it just goes to show us that this is a powerful war. if we had listened to people like my mother before, wave might not get to this point now. >> yanatan when we, talk to talk about your family and your kids, and you said it's not ideal because kids require their love and attention from their parents. you said you are distracted. they are holding on to their childhood, how are they doing? >> i think it is still the case. they are paying a price because for me, you know, i am still living on the seventh. i can't be -- the attentive father that i used to be. they are paying a price for that. but we do our best efforts to have a lot of hugs. i read them stories before we go to bed. i mean, i did not stop doing that. and we talk about our feelings, i invite them to ask questions so they are part of the situation and not estranged from it. >> you know, yanatan, i hope one day that i can emulate your courage and strength and bravery. until then, lets you and me stay in constant touch. thanks for being with us again and reminding us about your mother. thank you so much. >> thank you for having me. >> all right, you heard me say before that a book can't make a lasting impact because of the words or the ideas or the author or all three. today's book, all the reverse, by dorit rabinyan, is all three. from the first draft, or we are swept into a love story. yet, we feel the invisible force calling them into separate identities, cultural heritage and communities. all the reverse is an ode to the other. an undeniable proof of the power of love. this is a book we should all read. the velshi banned book club is next. next. sometimes jonah wrestles with falling asleep... ...so he takes zzzquil. the world's #1 sleep aid brand for a better night sleep. so now, he wakes up feeling like himself. the reigning family room middle-weight champion. better days start with zzzquil nights. these two meet in a greenwich village café, south of where i am in new york city. their attraction is immediate. their loved is unavoidable and life-changing. quote, in tse moments when we talk and talk and talk i feel like i have been sort of an enigma to myself a difficult riddlelve, he has come along to know me and to answer all my questi i feel i am almost becoming him, so close to him and infused with him that i can practically feel what it is like to be him. if there is an impossible forbidden, love one that threatens their identity of identity, cultural heritage and choice, the odd is from israel, helmy's from the occupied west bank. they are our star stalked lovers, our modern-day romeo and juliet. this is the story of today's velshi banned book club, feature -- dorit rabinyan. it is also based on her real love affair with the late palestinian artist, hassan hiromi, in her twenties. she skillfully captures the speed and intensity of passion and love, with short chapters, pointed dialogue. the reader swept away just as quickly as leota, our narrator and protagonist is. from the moment leon and he'll meet in the café the router -- reader is rooting for them. as immediate as their love story is, there are cultural and political differences are ever-present and intrinsic to their relationship. these moments feel like coming up for air after diving underwater. unnecessary interruption. ultimately, all the reverse tells two stories, love of country and love of each other. it asks its readers to consider whether they could coexist. there is a pervasive nostalgia throughout all of the rivers. phone calls made on land lines, magnet for a taxi company stuck to a refrigerator door. nirvana playing out loud on a stereo. leigh ott realizes back in tel aviv that she does not have a single photograph of helmy and no social media exists to scroll and find. one perhaps the nostalgia is because all the rivers is more than just a recollection of a life-changing. love it is we attribute to huron-y. the semi autobiographical nature of all the reverse is not the only aspect of the novel that exists off the page. in late 2015 gets real's ministry of education rejected requests from israeli educators to add all the reverse to the national high school curriculum. including to student reading lists. dahlia fan egg, an education ministry official at the time defended barring the novel to an israeli news website saying, quote, the its story is based on a romantic motif of a forbidden, sacred and impossleove. adolescent used tend to romanticize and don't have, in many cases, the systematic point of view that includes consideratns about preserving the identity of the nation and the significance of assimilation. and quote. suddenly, all the rivers, a work of art, a real experience, a bestseller and an award winner became a political symbol. a means of division in israel. high school educator swiftly expressed outrage and protested. dorit rabinyan with spot on in the street. six weeks, ago before october, seventh in a world that seemed so far away now, i would have said something salient to say about the statement from israel's education ministry and the grave need to reserve speed or freedom of speech. all i can think of us love. all i can think about is how those stolen moments of passion between two kids, one winter in new york city, has power. immense power. it has immense power to change e world. bell, hooks the te american author and theorist who studied love said, quot the moment we choose to love we began to move towards freedom. to act in ways that liberate ourselves and others, and quote. we are going to take a quick break. then we will speak with dorit rabinyan, on her bernstein prize winning novel all the rivers. rivers. my frequent heartburn had me taking antacid after antacid all day long but with prilosec otc just one pill a day blocks heartburn for a full 24 hours. for one and done heartburn relief, prilosec otc. one pill a day, 24 hours, zero heartburn. liberty mutual customized my car insurance and i saved hundreds. with the money i saved, i started a dog walking business. oh. [dog barks] no it's just a bunny! only pay for what you need. ♪liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty.♪ ♪♪ we're not writers, but we help you shape your financial story. ♪♪ we're not an airline, but our network connects global businesses across nearly 160 markets. ♪♪ we're not a startup, but our innovation labs use new technologies to help keep your information secure. ♪♪ we're not architects, but we help build stronger communities. ♪♪ we're not just any bank. we are citi. ♪♪ right now get a free footlong at subway. like the new deli heroes. buy one footlong in the app, get one free. it's a pretty big deal. kinda like me. order in the subway app today. why didn't we do this last year? before you were preventing migraine with qulipta®? remember the pain? cancelled plans? the worry? that was then. and look at me now. you'll never truly forget migraine. but qulipta® reduces attacks, making zero-migraine days possible. it's the only pill of its kind that blocks cgrp - and is approved to prevent migraine of any frequency. to help give you that forget-you-get migraine feeling. don't take if allergic to qulipta®. most common side effects are nausea, constipation, and sleepiness. learn how abbvie could help you save. qulipta®. the forget-you-get migraine medicine™. he hits his mark —center stage—and is crushed by a baby grand piano. you're replacing me? customize and save with liberty bibberty. he doesn't even have a mustache. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ i'm back now with its dorit rabinyan, author of toy's velshi banned book club feature the semi autobiographical award winning novel, all the rivers. thank you so much for being with us. i hope we try to do justice to your book. in the introduction i compared liat and hilmi to romeo and juliet, both passionate but ultimately could never. b is that a fair comparison? >> often it is reminded, yes. but i believe that it is the tribal instinct that is the bug that makes the association. it is not necessarily the tragic ending. it is the fact that these two have loyalties, both to one another and to where they belong to. and that is the conflict that they have within them. >> back in 2004 you wrote a beautiful tribute to hassan maroney, the inspiration for hilmi in the guardian called, the exiles return. your words nearly two decades later are as pertinent as ever. let me please quote from it. you, say i prayed and i still pray for a modest lukewarm mediocre piece. well you dreamed of harmonious, utopian, john lennon reconciliation. i insisted repeatedly that the crisis of hatred and suspicion between the two peoples was too deep and tragic for such a dream to come true. you mocked me and said i had little faith, that i was restricting the horizon of my thinking. and quote. what has changed since then? >> i no longer have my muse with me to witness and perhaps ask him if he would have been ready to compromise on a more modest solution. but i do believe that time would have the unfair justice with him as well acknowledging that a lot of stock shun would have been more sustainable. >> one particularly pointed part of all the rivers occurs again and again where liat and hilmi referred to israel in the west bank respectively as home. not by the actual names of the places. i ask you about the significance of that because we are in this moment where names and what you call places has become such a flash point. >> i do believe that this state is -- should and is a destiny of us, both nations, to share. we should coexist side by side. what we are facing today is this army, a proxy army of iran, that is neighboring us from the south and threatens the idea of side by side. what we aspire, let's say, the more -- i'm very emotional these days. being on live tv is -- i do know we have allies in the west bank. i know we have allies in gaza. i know we have allies in the arab world. they are silent and we need to reach out to them. we have to have cooperation from within the region. but we need support from the world to have [inaudible] to start, to initiate again the aspiration for. hope the aspiration for peace. because by that we go against what hamas was asking to have. hamas was asking to pull the israeli army within gaza. this war was inevitable due to the fact that this was their ambition. and by the fact that this was their ambition, supporting their ambition would be crying to have mutual states. i trust that this travesty, this horrendous event made people who are more extreme to come more to the center, to be more compromising. there is no peace treaty in the past history of humankind that was made without compromises. we should be compromising. and we should aim for a compromise solution. >> i understand the depth of your emotion. this is an emotional story before what happened on october 7th. the story you have written is deeply emotional and it is something we should all read within the context of what has just happened. i do want to talk about your depiction of new york city. new york is much more than just a backdrop for liat aunt hilmi 's relationship. it is almost as if they could not have fallen in love anywhere else in the way that your book a set up. new york's neutrality is almost magical or surreal. talk to me about the story of love story between two people who were raised so close to one another and yet found each other and it up so far away. >> so true. new york offers a surface ground that would allow a palestinian and israeli to see each other equally, free and to explore one another's identity. at the same time, they explore themselves reflected by the other. this -- just knowing the other from within, studying the other from within. learning about yourself via the other, it allows them to know much deeper and much more authentically how much bruises they carry, how many stereotypes they bring from home. and how forceful are those powers of education that formed the identity and the outline of who they consider themselves to be? this is a huge gesture to know the other from within. to allow yourself to get near the stereotypes. all those harmful interests that make us a multitude. we are individuals. this is only the literature that can allow us to be seen as individuals. this is a grand gesture that people do reading books, to be given the chance to see a particular person, a specific person and to see how much [inaudible] to the sack of nationalistic powers that mold who we think we are ourselves and who we consider the other to be. and think of the immense time and life experience, the imagination you invest in knowing the other from within while reading a book that depicts the other. this is another subject in the book. the intimacy, the proximity. this is the main center of what we are going through in the past five weeks. it is how near we are, how close geographically and how undeniably palestinians and israelis share in common than indifferent. it is the temperament, the humor,, there is something living under the sun and enjoying so much of this beautiful earth. this emotional landscape is reflected within the relationship. what i'm trying to say is that there should be a [inaudible] of who you are and who i am. and this is why i have been demonstrating crying out loud, being such a vocal activist for peace and for a two-state solution because neighbors should follow what benjamin franklin has phrased so well, saying that good fences make good neighbors. we should have a very clear boundary knowing where i and you begin, where i and you and. this is symbiotic, and unsolved existence, it is perhaps the bitter source of all of our agony's up until today. >> dorit, thank you. >> you made me think of what hassan would've said today. what he would have contributed to my dire straight and what i would have said. i heard the interview and i want to believe, perhaps it's my literary imagination, perhaps it is a scenario that i'm telling myself a story, but perhaps in the tunnels, in the underground of gaza, perhaps behind a wall there's a screen and she hears my voice and they all hear our voices. [speaking in a global language] >> thank you. dorit rabinyan, the author of all the rivers. that is today's velshi banned book club feature. that does it for me, times like, this you have to toss it to alex witt, she will be back after a quick break. after a quick break. witch back to my regular shampoo. you should use it every wash, otherwise the flakes will come back. tiny troy: he's right, you know. is that tiny troy? the ingredients in head and shoulders keep the microbes that cause flakes at bay. microbes, really? they're always on your scalp... little rascals... but good news, there's no itchiness, dryness or flakes down here! i love tiny troy. and his tiny gorgeous hair. it's the top of the hour, he's the best. - make every wash count! - little help please. welcome, everyone. i'm alex