this long as a master this is the hostages. >> tonight, the latest details on what some of the hostages might be released, and who might finally come home. >> you know, it's like a russian roulette, you're waiting to see who will come back home. >> then, as the ex president flirts with the legal line on his gag order, new details against the threats against a new york judge and a staff. plus, why democrats want voters to start paying more attention to donald trump this election, and a big victory for autoworkers this holiday season. >> we want things that they have not seen a 50 years, change peoples lives overnight. >> union chief shawn fain joins me live, when all in starts right now. good evening from new york, i am chris, the final details of the negotiations in israel and has e still being worked out tonight, as we are getting reports that the pause in fighting that was supposed to begin at 3 am eastern time has not been delayed. the new york times citing senior israeli officials say that the earliest attempt at a cease-fire is not this friday. earlier today, the head of the israeli national security council confirmed that the release of some 50 israeli hostages in gaza, women and children, supposed to be returned to israel beginning tomorrow, will now not be freed until friday or later. the reason for the delay was not anything clear. if and when what is being bill essay temperatures this come about, the pause is expected to last for four days, as the release of the sausage is spread out over the better part of a week. in return, it is expected that about 150 palestinian political prisoners, also women and children, are going to be released by israel. we should know, the final bill will still be subject to review by israel supreme court. today, deputy assistant brett victor confirmed to msnbc that american children will be among the hostages released, including abigail and don, the two-year-old child, three years old, kidnapped by hamas militants after her parents were murdered in the october 7th attack. advocates and told nbc news that she hopes you can see her family by her birthday this friday. >> she's turning for. to just imagine that she comes home and is with her family, it's our light right now. in such a dark and terribly horrific period. >> they also say that they hope that the framework of the deal, brokered with the help of the united states and qatar, will allow the securing other release of the some 200 hostages remaining in the custody of hamas and other factions in gaza. the white house is stopping short of taking the victory lap today, when the fate of the hostages obviously still uncertain, minute by minute, or finding out developments about what will happen. the deal, again, as struck and as we understand it, will also allow the red cross, crucially, to visit and treat the hostages in gaza. that's been denied to the red cross. they have been trying to get that the moment that the hostages were taken. it also includes additional humanitarian aid, crucially, fuel for gaza. remember, that fuel was basically cut off entirely on october 7th and eighth. since then, the health ministry in gaza estimates that the death toll is somewhere near 14,000. officials there have seen the skill of destruction makes it difficult to capture. about 40% of those casualties, about 1500 are believed to be children. according to one advocacy group, a child dies in gaza every ten minutes. the united nations labeling the territory, quote, a graveyard for children. today, the head of unicef told the u. n. that the pause in fighting is welcomed in negotiated, long lasting peace deal needed to protect for the loss of innocent life. >> we also welcomed the limited cease-fire agreement. we are in a position to compete quickly square up the delivery, desperately needed humanitarian aid in gaza. of course, we're resources are needed, -- the destruction of gaza and killing of civilians will not bring peace or safety to the region. people of this region deserve peace. only a negotiated political solution, one that prioritizes the rights and well-being of this and future generations of israeli, palestinian children, will ensure that. >> such a negotiated political solution appears unlikely in the short term, however. today, benjamin and yahoo adjust the nation, reiterated that his country remains at war. >> translator: citizens of visceral, i wish to be clear. that war continues. we are going to continue with this war until we achieve all of our goals to bring back all of the hostages to obliterate hamas. we are winning, and we are going to continue to fight until we reach absolute victory. >> for now, a brief pause in the fighting, return of some of the hostages, hopefully by the end of the week, beginning of the return of the hostages starting this week, is indisputably the most positive development since the conflict began. david noriega is a nbc news correspondent reporting live from tel aviv. richard stengel is the -- a public affairs, and they both join me now. david, if you can give us what you know about the latest about the timing of this and how, i guess, solid this deal is. >> yeah, chris, as far as we know right now, the only thing that has changed is the timing. the israeli security council told us, told everyone earlier tonight that what was expected to happen for us here in israel pitted this morning, for you guys in the states tomorrow morning, is happening now sooner than friday, but we don't know when it will happen. the core details of the agreement, as we know them, still stand. the exchange of 50 israeli hostages, 150 palestinian prisoners, the allowing of aid trucks into gaza, those details, as far as you know, are still in play. however, the fact that the timing was thrown into question is injecting a lot of uncertainty to what was already an intense and uncertain situation. at the top of the families of hostages since that week here, they have expressed hope, but they also expressed a lot of fear and uncertainty. they say that they still won't be real until they actually see their loved ones released. the politics of this within israel are also playing out in interesting ways. in a press conference that you mentioned, that prime minister benjamin netanyahu gave earlier today, he was clearly finding his right flank, making a point to say to his country is still at war. also saying that he wishes he did not have to release any palestinians in order to get hostages back. i think that is the press he has to pay. however, today, i spoke to some protesters, who were out demonstrating with the families of hostages to say that they actually think that the deal is not enough, that they wish that israel had agreed to release all of the hostages for every single palestinian prisoner currently in israeli custody. here is what those protesters had to say. >> so you don't think they should have lost anyone? >> right. >> it should have been all of the hostages? >> we are in such a bad situation, everything they offered us, we should take. but, i don't know if we could have negotiated for all of them. if we could have released -- their slogan is, everybody for everybody. all the prisoners that we have for all others. >> i should say, chris, that perspective that she just articulated, i have also heard it directly from some of the families of hostages. they are not willing to save it on camera, because they want to have a united front. they want to be seen as processing a deal that allows any other fellow families of hostages some relief in the capacity to reunite with their loved ones. it will be interesting to see if this sort of emerging political colby shin of families of hostages will be divided between families who have been reunited with families in those lab behind, what kind of pressure they might be willing to start putting on the netanyahu government. they are afraid that their loved ones will be forgotten, that this with the fleet some of the urgency in releasing the women and children, or will take away some of the urgency of releasing the of the civilian hostages. it will be interesting to watch how this plays out politically, what role these families will play moving forward, chris? >> rick, let me ask you as someone who served in the state department. this has been an intense focus by the biden administration. there is u.s. interest across the board, one being some of the hostages are american, dual national since. what do you see as the administration's role here. >> i think it's had a big role, chris. from the very start, people that everyone has to talk to. i think the israelis and the white house, by the way, it's mostly the white house here, not the state department, they have been talking from october 7th that they have had a horrific attack. and the israelis have a kind of double interests. they want to get the hostages back. they want to get hamas out of power. i think biden's theory of the case, from the beginning, chris, is that he is trying to help bibi. he's got to show unconditional support for the israelis, in order to have any influence over the israelis, because no one else but the americans have influence over the israelis. i think behind the scenes, the concern in the administration has been the humanitarian issue, getting out the hostages. that's had a big impact. >> let me follow up on that, because i about a theory of the case here. as someone who worked in public diplomacy, the u.s. has not through the public state department, material and support. we are coauthors at the war in many ways. i don't think it's a crush official statement, whatever the outcome is. there are 14,000 people have died in gaza, namely, half of them children, which blows up the population of gaza. you have a leader in netanyahu, who is widely despised in zero. there is a consensus that he'll be out of power once the war is over, and ergo, has every incentive to keep the war going, as long as possible, to save his political hide, and that is the man that joe biden is talking very publicly. >> chris, i think he probably sees it exactly the way that you do. he says to himself, what is my alternative? to publicly criticize him, took it on the side of everybody else, who is criticizing israel? what diplomacy is the already possible. the administration wants to decrease the amount of humanitarian suffering. they want to bring about, ultimately, a two state solution, which he has talked about every time he's talked about it. the best way to do that is to show support on the outside of zero, while at the same time, behind the scenes, saying, b b, you have to do something about this. you had to pause. you had to be much more careful about the humanitarian catastrophe that is unfolding. i think that is what is going on, and diplomats can never really say that. i can say that now because i am not one anymore. >> david noriega, who is with us live in tel aviv, reporting on this. and richard stengel, thank you both. david, thank you for staying up with us, appreciate it, really. peter beinart is the editor at large for the magazine jewish currents, author of the book -- already whenever it comes out. he joins me now. it's good to have you here. talk about -- i want to talk about one detail here that has struck me in the reporting. we know what hamas did in israel, and the fact that there are one year old hostages, three-year-old hostages, unimaginably awful to contemplate, but one other details in the swap is, palestinian prisoners in israeli custody, also women and children. i think if you read that line, you think, wait a second, what is that about? >> right, why are their children in person? obviously, you said, hamas should never have taken those people. it's inexcusable. profoundly immoral, what they did. and they are also, separately, israel arrest a lot of people in the west bank, in particular. remember, the people in the west bank are not citizens that the country. they don't live under the same law as the israeli settlers, they live under military law. the prosecution rate is more than 99%. people held in administrative detention for a long time. >> he don't have the normal due process that you would anticipate in a rule of law democracy. >> the tragedy for me here is that it is hamas by doing this evil thing, that is not bringing us to talk about something that we should have been talking about anyway. >> right, and that obviously is the sort of propaganda trap here. from the hamas perspective, right? they committed the massacre, and israel has been militarily responding. they now are saying, it is a sort of look at us, world. or getting children released from israeli persons. and i think wrestling with the propaganda, probably the very difficult part of being in israeli politics right now. >> this is why i play in the biden administration. they've been in power for several years now. have they done anything to make mahmoud abbas, who does not support terrorism, who does not support -- to make him a winner? how about allowing him to get in power, so you empower hamas 20 due to, and that is the situation that we're in today. >> it looks like we will have some cessation of hamas hostilities for some variation of time. i got to say, and the ten years that i have been doing this, this is one of the darkest, grimacers i have ever covered. it's punishingly dark. the amount of innocent life and the details of the attack, the details of life in gaza, there is very little light. if there is a cessation of hostilities, it's the image of people being able to like bury their dead and gaza, the image of people returning home. some little light -- okay, do we just go back to this four days later? >> the problem is, now israel basically told people in gaza to move into southern gaza. it's one of the most part it pushes on the world, even more crowded, and they have been saying that they'll go into southern gaza. this is a pause that will be followed by massive amounts of loss of life, unless the biden administration and other people go in there and say, no, we want a different path. >> but this is the problem. i really do feel this way, i've said weeks ago that i thought basically, this situation has difficult and complicated as it was, there has to be a cease-fire. the scale of innocent life being lost is not support-able. but there is a little bit of like, and then, what problem is for both sides. at the end then, what problem is, will defeat hamas. and then what? nobody knows. multinational, arab governments are going to come in. but for the cease-fire folks, okay, there's a cease-fire, and then what? gaza's destroyed, hamas is still empowered, there are still a bunch of hostages, and then what? >> we desperately need to find some legitimate palestinian leadership that will be willing to take over, that hamas may have to go along with that. hamas may have to go along and accept that in some way, but the point is, you need an empowered palestinian leadership. you can't do it with mahmoud abbas, while he looks like israel > this is the problem though. what they say is that the military aim is that will get rid of hamas. the same way that like we kicked i. s. i. s. out of massal, and they don't rule anymore, we kick them out of iraq, we'll do it in gaza, at least that is a clear military objective. let's say we stop here, and i think, obviously, that is what should be done. i really do. but then it's like, does anybody have any vision what the path forward after that is? you conquered some vision of some new leadership. >> look, the most popular palestinian leaders, like -- are in jail. you let that kind of guy tomorrow, palestinian politics changes in a big way, because you have a legitimate, credible alternative to hamas, and you could talk to him about going to elections and creating a palestinian leadership that you can actually talk to. this is why the netanyahu government has not wanted. this is not easy, but if i were to think outside of the box, it seems to me that we fit in. >> the day after two, which is what makes is difficult. peter beinart, great to talk to you. coming up, is a federal appeal court considers many of the got runners on the republican front runner, the grand, really shocking revelations about the specific danger posed by donald trump's words, next. i got this $1,000 camera for only $41 on dealdash. dealdash.com, online auctions since 2009. this playstation 5 sold for only 50 cents. this ipad pro sold for less than $34. and this nintendo switch, sold for less than $20. i got this kitchenaid stand mixer for only $56. i got this bbq smoker for 26 bucks. and shipping is always free. go to dealdash.com right now and see how much you can save. 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>> we got this filing on behalf of judge engoron, made by the office of the court of decisions, a lawyer there effectively representing him in the proceeding. let me ask, why does he need his own lawyer here? this is no ordinary appeal. this is a particular type of lawsuit in new york state where you can sue a government official for unconstitutional, unlawful actions, so what trump is doing here is suing judge engoron himself and therefore, the office of court administration is stepping in as his lawyer. in as his lawyer. the affirmation that you're referring to was filed by basically the equivalent of a police officer for the court system who works for the judicial threat assessment unit >> you work in new york city in the court system and still do. this kind of thing directed a clerk at the court, it's one thing, right, if you run for district attorney of manhattan, you're going to take some income. there are going to be saying nasty things about you. you may have to worry a bit about security, but you know that when you're doing it. not to say it's okay, but it's just a little bit of a different thing. a court clerk, have you ever encountered a situation and in the time you have worked in the. new york city court system of that level of public harassment targeted at someone like that? >> unheard of. a judge's law clerk, i don't want to say that they're a plotted plant, but when you got to court as a lawyer, you don't deal with a law clerk. sometimes, the judge will have the law clerk speak to the attorneys, have a settlement. but it's the judge that makes a decision. in this case, not just donald trump, to have a lawyer that have been attacking this law clerk is unprecedented. it's unheard of. >> it's one thing if you are this clerk, and you have been up against your will, elevated to a public figure by one of the most, the biggest platforms and the person donald trump. it's one thing for people to say nasty things about you out in the world. it's horrible, but that's one level. what's revealed in this filing is like, she is getting 50 phone calls a day. her life is disrupted. yes, she has been doxxed. her addresses in the public domain. her personal emails have been compromised. her personal cell phone has been compromised. she gets dozens of messages, as you mentioned, on her social media, personal email and cell phone every day. and, the threatening phone messages and voice mails have been directed at the judge and the clerk combined, filled 275 single spaced pages as transcribed. to me, that was a thing about this filing that stood out the most,, just the sheer volume of the hate. >> i am sorry, this is unacceptable. it's entirely unacceptable. i am sorry, we cannot run a system like this. it cannot be the case that you can use the leverage of your platform to essentially by other means, paying a targeted intimidation, upon a court. i feel like i am reading about a state where the rule of law has unraveled. >> it shows. this is proof, if you want proof that donald trump's words when he attacked someone has an effect of encouraging, threatening behavior, this is proof. this poor law clerk who he puts her photo up and he also linked to her personal instagram on that on social media, and i just started, and it hasn't stopped. >> this also seems a real test to me. you've got the protective order that judge chutkan issued, now being appealed, working its way through. again, donald trump is the amazing example of you get one process of the u.s. system of, justice as you can afford. not everyone gets the process, but donald trump does. fine, great, that is his constitutional right. that is working its way up. someone has to draw some real hard lines here. i'm feeling like i'm watching some ridiculous testing things happening, where i can see what is happening. i can't see what the threat is. i don't know why i am getting worked up. >> you and i have been sitting in this courtroom for weeks and days on and, watching this trial. to watch that law clerk and judge engoron come into the job every day, still themselves to preside over a child in which there are daily attacks, it's really hard to watch. in terms of drawing lines, it shouldn't also be the case that you only get to make this showing if you're represented by the court system. and some respects, a judge engoron and's law clerks were very lucky in that there was a police officer able to dimension the size and scope of the threat, but fani willis had some trouble yesterday in a similar hearing with respect to harrison floyd and his bond replication. he is one of the codefendants in that georgia r.i.c.o. case. he's a publicist associated with that weird episode in which a woman went down to try to get the two election coworkers to falsely confess. >> correct, and she had trouble demonstrating us today that harrison floyd's point -- post about this woman, ruby freeman, an election worker, were in fact threats. why, because there's nobody appointed by the government was writing them down or transcribing them. it should not be the case that you have to report to police to get the police involved for a judge to believe that is a credible threat that violates conditions of release or a gag order that is in place. >> look, the first one is really important. there are novel first amendment issues here, for the person running for president. there is something insidious here, catherine, that it's like when trump tweets mike pence did not have the courage while the mob is overflowing the capital, he knows what he is doing. we all know what he is doing and a technical, sense you can say, he did not technically tell them go try to kill that dude. but two-plus-two does equal four. he's doing the same thing here, and someone has to be able to say two plus two equals four. >> we now have, what we call a pattern of behavior for donald trump. he put all of the pieces together. say that constantly about mike pence and what do we hear? hanging, mike pence. the secret service had to take him away. he constantly does this. i hope the d.c. circuit reads this affidavit filed by did new york appellate division. you know, judges pay attention, and we will see what the cause and effect is when donald trump speaks. >> we're waiting on the order of the d. c. circuit, as well. we're waiting on a resolution on this lawsuit against the gag order. lisa rubin and catherine christian, great have you both. still to come, the latest for democrats, how do you express the danger that donald trump poses to voters, who understandably don't want to talk about him anymore. that is next. i got this $1,000 camera for only $41 on dealdash. dealdash.com, online auctions since 2009. this playstation 5 sold for only 50 cents. this ipad pro sold for less than $34. and this nintendo switch, sold for less than $20. i got this kitchenaid stand mixer for only $56. i got this bbq smoker for 26 bucks. and shipping is always free. go to dealdash.com right now and see how much you can save. >> there's an interesting and perhaps novel concern circulating in a lot of democratic political circles, with polls showing that president joe biden and donald trump are essentially a dead heat poll after poll in a potential rematch next year. some people feel that part of the problem for biden and the democrats is that america is not paying enough attention to donald trump. of course, that is the opposite of the prevailing opinion over many at the last several years, everyone was paying too much attention. there's a case to be made that the further that trump or receipts frothe competition, the easier to get out uniquely repellent and dangerous. the founder of progressive north carolina told the new york times, quote, i think it's like a relationship. there's a lot of bad things that happened, but the longer distance to get away from the d things, you may be, like, maybe the bad things went bad. a torture biden but are now supporting trump echoed that sentiment. i know it lot of people get mad about what he said earlier, about crap them by the whatever, that was aggravating. but, that was years ago. this woman is a former democratic senator of missouri and co-host of the how to win 2024 podcast. david plouffe served as campaign manager for the 2008 obama campaign as well as senior adviser for president obama. people join me now. i have been saying this to myself for a while that the more that donald trump is in the public eye, the more attention he gets, the worse for him politically because it is a reminder of how uniquely unsuited he is for the job. i think a lot of people thought the opposite. they are like, you are giving him attention and that gives him power. i am curious just to start off, clear, and then to you, david, where are you on this as a theory? >> well, i think there is a lot of validity in this theory. i think people -- it is very easy to forget how scary this guy is if you are not listening and watching him right now. >> yes. >> i mean, he just -- chris, not that long ago, he actually said that he would terminate the constitution. that was just a -- like, eight months ago. a few months before that, he was threatening to execute four trees and one of our top military leaders. these are the things that i think will turn off, particularly, suburban voters if they see it and hear it and are reminded of it. if the news media is not covering him so they see and hear it, and the biden campaign will have to. >> what do you think, david? >> i concur completely. the only way to turn this into the searing contrast has to be is to swing him into the discussion, and joe biden has to turn this into a choice, not a referendum. it is the only way to raise the stakes. i think raising the stakes works with swing suburban voters as claire talked about, but also for younger voters who are probably my biggest concern. when it the presidency is like putting together really complicated puzzles. young voters turnouts and vote share for biden will be critical. so, you have to make what trump will do, and i think it will be more important to talk about what he will to. you can obviously, based on the past, but on any number of things. there are incredibly unpopular -- the president -- the person most responsible for roe v. wade being illegal and overturned it is not going to be back in the presidency and point a lot more judges. he wants to basically does michael government, and people who issue social security and medicare he. wants to get rid of the constitution. he wants to kill military generals. he wants to never have an election again where you have a voice. all these things are not made up. there are real. so, you have to bring him into this and make the prospect of what people do in the next four years as well as possible for people. >> so, there is something to this to, i think, claire, and i agree with both of. you i really do think it is key and urgent. i think one is that the -- heat is exhausting to think about and i know this is and a professional capacity, and there is some degree that people who are not the most tuned into politics, the people who are so the further on the margins, it's like it is sort of more pleasant not to think about him. i am not thinking about the people who go to -- and our political junkies. i think that because it is unpleasant to think about him [laughter] , it is actually hard and that respect because people understandably would rather not. >> yeah, i think it is really important to remember that the voters that joe biden has to get certainly our young voters, and i think the biden campaign has to really focus the conversation for young voters around jobs, gun safety, climate change, him saying there will be a ban on muslims being able to travel into our country. the way that the right wing is looking down their nose at people who are gay and married in this country. those are the people -- things they have to do with young people. for some voters, who have to remember, chris, you know what they say when somebody brings this up? on both their houses, they are all a mess. i don't like any of them. so, you have to pull them out of that, i don't want to hear about any of them, i'd like somebody brand new, mind set. you have to bring that home and make them realize how dangerous that attitude is when you have one middle -- ventilate deranged candidate and one normal candidate. >> there is another aspect to this to, and i thought that quote was really interesting, the relationship quote, the sort of further you get, the bad times proceed. i think there is some nostalgia among the electorate, again these are not politically checked and people, to basically 2019. it has been a rough run for the country and the world [laughter] 2020, covid, that election, the aftermath of covid, all the disruption and all the societal change and dislocation. and so, i do think, david, -- like, people have a little bit of this image of -- they are conflating some sense of, it was nice when we didn't have all this stuff we had to deal with with the guy that might have been president, then. >> absolutely, and that is a real factor in this election, which is there are a lot of voters say the economy was good in 2019. so, you have to prosecute and economic argument against trump, basically. he will just do everything for the wealthy and school workers, but this is why this is so important. listen, i think i and i'm sure the biden campaign -- i certainly wish this turns into an errant sorkin's swing -- screenplay and biden wins because he sells his accomplishments. but that is not what this is. this race will be decided by people who, to clare's point, are pops on both their houses, who aren't going to vote, may disapprove of both candidates, and what you just described is so important. if they say, well, maybe it wasn't so bad under trump, but what you have to say is, oh, it was, but it will be worse. and here is how it will affect you. because ultimately, this will be decided by voters who may be holding their nose, who are really bummed about their choices. that is why this question you ask is so important. you have to make the prospect of donald trump being president from january 2021 until the end of 2025 as real for people as possible. it is not that hard to make it scary and concerning because it is. >> no, it is legitimately, substantively, the most scary and concerning eventuality that we face, probably in my lifetime. to your point, david, the date i was thinking about is when trump won the dual disapproves against hillary clinton, people that disapproved vote by a pretty good margin. biden won them in 2020, that is a key thing to keep your ears on. karen mccaskill, ethan plouffe, thank you for joining us with this thanksgiving in. have a good holiday. coming up, on the heels of a landmark labor deal with the big three u.s. automakers, the man who let that strike, united auto workers president shawn fain joins me for an exclusive interview, ahead. this month, we've vanished and incredibly fun and successful live tour of my podcast, what is happening. our culminating event was at the historic town hall venue, right here in new york city, with a packed house, and my dear friend and colleague which will maddow. many things, but among them, author of the great new book, prequel about americas tangled history with fascism in the 20th century and what it and tell us about today's fight against creeping authoritarianism. >> if i had the nba draft of fascist autocrats and i was like, running them through, you know, the pace, is like, i don't know in the and what makes someone work for someone and not for someone else. >> well, i have -- this is a very unpopular opinion, but i do not believe that the leader matters. you need a country that is looking for an authoritarian solution and you need people who are willing to submit themselves to the authority of the person who says they deserve it. and you have got franco was napoleon sized, right? hitler was a dork, right? mussolini was a journalist and a socialist. there is nothing about the skies that is transforming those countries against their will. those countries were subject to and anti democratic pro authoritarian movement that had skills and the people weren't ready to do it. >> our entire wide-ranging tour of the conversation was really memorable, epic. stories and the back stories from the vehicle were amazing. we talked about how you at home could prepare for what could be if there were tumultuous year ahead and rachel told me but keeps her up at night, which was very, very funny. so, if you are not able to make it to town hall this past weekend, you are in luck. we have taped the whole thing. we shot it for tv. you can watch the entire episode friday seven pm eastern on msnbc, or you could stream it right now on peacock. i think you are going to really like it. detect this: most hiv pills contain 3 or 4 medicines. dovato is as effective with just 2. if you have hepatitis b, don't stop dovato without talking to your doctor. don't take dovato if you're allergic to its ingredients or taking dofetilide. this can cause serious or life-threatening side effects. if you have a rash or allergic reaction symptoms, stop dovato and get medical help right away. serious or life-threatening lactic acid buildup and liver problems can occur. tell your doctor if you have kidney or liver problems, or if you are pregnant, breastfeeding, or considering pregnancy. dovato may harm an unborn baby. most common side effects are headache, nausea, diarrhea, trouble sleeping, tiredness, and anxiety. detect this: i stay undetectable with fewer medicines. ask your doctor about switching to dovato. you want to be able to provide your child i stay undetectable with fewer medicines. with the tools or resources they need. with reliable internet at home, through the internet essentials program, the world opened up. fellas, fellas. that's how my son was able to find the hidden genius project. we wanted to give y'all the necessary skills to compete with the future. kevin's now part of this next generation of young people who feel they can thrive. ♪ ♪ this week, united auto workers announced its mark members at each of the three big automakers had ratified their newly negotiated contract. according to the union, 64% of workers across for, stellantis, and general motors voted in favor of the deal, won by the union after a six-week strike. in an enduring lesson about the power of liberty unions, the new contract brought gains beyond uaw membership. at least half it not union autoworkers, on, dieonte, toyota, nissan, subaru and volkswagen all announced they would raise the pay of their u.s. autoworkers, most in line with the uaw contract. this cements the longest autoworkers strike in 25 years as not only a huge success for the l.a. w, but to success for a lot of workers across the industry and a reminder of the impact that unionized forces can have on the distribution between wages and profits. joining me now for an exclusive interview is the man who left the union in that strike, shawn fain, president of the uaw of america. congratulations on this very successful undertaking. how stressed out were you about how long this might go? >> hey, chris, thanks. for having us. it's an honor to be here. i will tell you, really wasn't stressed about how long it takes because we knew we had the power of the membership behind us and we had a membership because of our contract campaign and things we would have done differently since we took over. i remember it was energized and ready to do whatever they had to drink to get the right results, so it was just really a matter of the strategy and how we were going to exercise that and just really is the power of the membership. and that is what gave us power at the bargaining table. >> obviously, united auto workers democratic union work as their representatives and their contract negotiations, not at the places that are unionized. i am curious to hear your reaction to this kind of spillover effect that we have seen at non-union automakers raising their wages as well. >> hey, we call that the uaw bump. that is what happens when we bargained good contracts. bargaining and organizing cohen hand and hand. and it is not a coincidence that within three days after us coming to tentative agreements with the big three, toyota raised their wages by 11% and reduced their progression to four years. and then honda followed suit with bigger races and a three -year progression. then hyundai dropped jumped on board. they want workers to fear having a union. so they are trying to, you know, give him reasons not to join the union. but we know those orchestras are their fair share and that will be the next face as this is organized in those places and giving thousands workers their full share of the fruits of their labor. >> i want to get into that, but just to recap what you just said. those numbers you went through are very similar to the deal that you worked out, 11% pay increase immediately, a 25% pay increase over four and a half years, cost of living adjustments reinstated, shortened time from the top wage from eight years to three years, i know that is a big deal. right to strike over plant closures, and ending the two tier pay structure, which i know from conversations i had was an enormous deal. when you talk about looking to other places, let's talk about tesla, which is the largest ev manufacturer in america and non unionized, and how important you see that for the future of your union. >> i think one of the best -- and i think we have done with this agreement. when i took over, we were doa when it came to the ev battery work. we were in a bad position and again, thanks to the power of the membership standing up, we were able to bargain some of that work under our master agreements, under our standards. we approached the white house and congress about this issue and our taxpayer dollars are helping fund that transition, so we expect to be that standard of everywhere and the elon musk of the world that have the tesla's, you know they want to -- that is how billionaires get their money, they do it on the backs of the working class people and they take the profits and other people cope or in the process of these people getting rich so they can built rockets and fight themselves into outer space, whatever the heck it is they want to do with their spare time. workers are fed up in this country. our fight is not just with the uaw, our fight is with the entire working class. that is why 75% of americans supported us in this fight. >> you know, let's talk a little bit more about that sort of transition. one thing you talked about in your contract is up may day 2020 -- what here is it? 2028? >> yes, four and a half years. so, yes. >> and the idea that other unions negotiate similar contracts with similar dates as a sort of additive power to the threat of strike. what do you think the lesson has been from this ear, not just for the uaw, we have seen it with the writers guild, we see it with sag-aftra, with flight attendants, across the labor movement and across working people in this country. the most amount of strike activity we have seen in a generation. >> look, working class people are fed up. union or not, i think covid taught us a viable lesson. people reflected on what is important and life and what is important is not working seven days a week, 12 and 16 hours a day, or working multiple jobs, scraping to get by, living paycheck to paycheck. people want a life, and that is not a life. so, i think that is what people are seeing now is the pathway to having a better life is by organizing and joining a union. i west period static we got may day as an expiration date, and i look forward to not only unions in this nation, but in this world to align our dates and that is one thing we learned in that process is, we have the power. when we withhold our labor, no matter where people work, nothing moves. the billionaire class, the corporate classic and built all the factories or businesses they want, but if there aren't people there to do the work, nothing will move. so, we have to harness that power, come together and organize, and work together, and stand together. we will take our lives back. >> shawn fain, president of the united auto workers union was just a very successful strike, the largest and longest in 22 years. thank you very much, sir. appreciate it. >> thank you, chris. >> that is all in on this thanksgiving eve, i have a lot to be thankful for, too much to list, but among the many, many things, i am thankful to be tha for. among the many things i'm thankful for is your trust. so thank you. have a great holiday. >> alex wagner tonight starts right now. good evening, alex. >> it's a great conversation you ended on with sean fain is a veryen