seats of government, the seats of power, and embarks on a campaign, a political intimidation, in order to secure outcomes that personally benefit him. and that at the core is part of the sticks of our democracy that are before us today. because once rule of law goes out the window, it is not something that is easy to get back and it is very much a part of the decision that we have to make before us in the next few months. >> congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez, congressman jamie raskin, thank you for your time tonight. i really appreciate it. that is all in on this tuesday night. alex wagner tonight starts now. >> we have new exclusive audio from the supreme court historical society that lauren winsor has given us and we will be playing that in the hour, so stay tuned. >> i will pick >> like i said, exclusive never before heard audio recordings of justice samuel alito speaking to an undercover progressive activist. that is what we have tonight. that is in addition to the bombshell recordings that were released yesterday and we will definitely want to hear these recordings when we play them. if you have been wondering how those secret tapes were made in the very first place, how activists and judges on the highest court in this land, how they came to mingle behind closed doors? the answer to that begins almost 10 years ago to this day when the supreme court handed down a major decision. >> reporter: supporters of the hobby lobby cheered today's victory. the oklahoma family that owns the chain of 500 craft stores claims that providing insurance coverage for some forms of contraceptives under obamacare would be the equivalent of paying for abortion. the court called the rolling startling and said it will allow companies to opt out of any law they judge incompatible with their sincerely held religious beliefs. >> the hobby lobby decision. the majority opinion was written by justice samuel alito and it was one of the first signs that conservatives on this court were willing to go after reproductive freedoms no matter the consequence. in the wake of the dobbs decision 10 years later, hobby lobby seemed sort of like the canary in the coal mine in more ways than one. in november 2022, the new york times offered key reporting about how the hobby lobby decision came to be. for years before the court heard the case, conservative christians have been engaged in a campaign called operation higher court. that operation was to personally court and influence the supreme court's conservative justices. that effort was spearheaded by a man named reverend robert shank who would recruit christian couples who he called stuff missionaries to gain access to the judges and to impress upon them the importance of conservative christian values. here is how the new york times described one of their strategies. reverend gave his stuff missionaries close instruction, the justices were more likely to let their guard down at the supreme court historical society annual dinners because they assumed attendees had been properly vetted. ca justice, boldly approach, schenck told the couples according to a briefing document reviewed by the times. if given the opportunity, bear witness to biblical truth, but don't push it, he said. your presence alone at the historical society events telegraphs a very important signal to the justices. christians are concerned about the court and the issues that come before it. that strategy appears to have paid off. according to the times reporting, some of schenck's stuff missionaries were able to build enough of a relationship with justice alito and his wife, martha and, that they obtained advanced notice of the court's hobby lobby decision before it came out. that breach of that unprecedented breach foreshadowed the leaked dobbs decision striking down go versus wade two years later. that specific strategy of using the supreme court's annual historical society dinners as a way to gain access to supreme court justices, it turns out that too is relevant again, just this week. they historical society dinner is a yearly event where wealthy donors give money to a nonprofit dedicated to preserving the court's history. in exchange for their money, those donors get to rub shoulders with some of the justices and their spouses. as it turns out, conservatives weren't the only ones in on this arrangement. last week, progressive activist lauren winsor who happens to be a member of the historical society, bought a ticket for the event. she got in, she pretended to be a conservative donor attending the event with her husband. ms. lender then approach some of the conservative justices and secretly recorded her conversations with them. and busyness has not heard the full tape of what is recorded so we cannot say for certain where edits were made if any were actually made. tonight we have some brand-new, never before heard audio from that event to play for you and when you hear these new tapes, he will hear something familiar to what was on the tapes released yesterday. a justice in this case, justice alito, who is aggrieved and frustrated, who is nakedly partisan and totally unconcerned by appearing to be all of those things in front of a total stranger. remember what we heard yesterday. >> as someone who really cherishes my face, i just don't know that we can negotiate the way that needs to happen for the polarization to end. i think it is a matter of, like, winning. >> i think you are probably right. on one side or the other, one side or the other is going to win. i don't know. i mean, there can be a way of working, a way of living together peacefully. but it is difficult, you know, because there are differences on fundamental things that really can't be compromised. they really can't be compromised. so it is not like you are going to split the difference. >> and that is what i'm saying. i think that the solution really is, like, winning the moral argument. like, people in this country who believe in god have got to keep fighting for that, to return our country to a place of godliness. >> i agree with you. i agree with you. >> member, at this closed-door cocktail party, winsor was also able to get justice alito's wife, martha and, to explain her deeply personal motivation for flaying two insurrectionist flags in front of their homes. that is a story that has just scandalized this court and is reporting this week would seem to suggest that mrs. alito has no shame about what she has been doing , in fact, quite the opposite. after deriding who have been critical of the scandal, she made clear that these flags she flies are explicitly her form of resistance and response. >> i know what i want, i want a sacred heart of jesus flag because i had to look across the lagoon at the pride flag for the next month. and he is like, please don't put up a flag. i said i want to do it because i am deferring to you but when you are free of this nonsense, i am putting it up and i am going to send you a message every day, maybe every week i will be changing the flags, i made a flag in my head, this is how i satisfy myself, i made a flag, it is white and yellow and orange flames around it. in the middle is this word. in italian, it means shame. >> just to be clear here, justice alito has publicly stated his wife did not fly these flags to associate herself with the stop the steal movement or any other group. but it seems quite clear from the clip that his wife very much sees these flags as a form of political expression and a response to what she believes are liberal attacks. perhaps most concerning in these recordings, though, is martha-ann alito's five-year plan for revenge . >> it is okay because if they come back to me, i will get them. i'm going to be liberated, and i'm going to get them. there is a five-year defamation statute of limitations. >> i don't know what you mean by they. >> the media. >> okay, so martha-ann alito, the wife of a supreme court justice, that she has a plan to get back at the media by suing for defamation. and she thinks she will have the opportunity to do that in the next five years, when she is free of all this nonsense. is samuel alito's wife telling us something here about justice alito's retirement plans? and how concerned should we all be that a supreme court justices spouse is talking about the american media with open contempt? tonight we have grand -- brand- new audio from that same event where justice alito himself tells us what he thinks about the press. the other voice you will hear on this tape is an associate of lauren winsor's who was also at this event. >> i just wanted to ask you, why do you think the supreme court is so -- is being so attacked and being so targeted by the media these days? >> well, i think it is a simple reason. they don't like our decisions and they don't like how they anticipate we may decide some cases that are coming up. that's the beginning and the end of it. and there are -- there are groups that are very well-funded by ideological groups that have spearheaded these attacks. that's what it is. >> like who? >> propublica. propublica gets a lot of, you know, gets a lot of money, and they have spent a fortune investigating clarence thomas, for example. everything he's ever done in his entire life, and they've done some of that to me too. but, you know, they look for any little thing they can find, and they try to make something out of it. >> and be seen is reached out for comment from both samuel alito and his wife, martha-ann alito, but we have not heard back. joining me now is lauren winsor, progressive activist and the executive producer of the undercurrent. thank you for being here, i know you have had a busy week so far. we are so appreciative of all that you have set this far and all you have to share with us tonight. first, start with a new sound that your organization or your colleague has given us. there are two parts of this new tape that strikes me as concerning. the first is justice samuel alito saying that the media is attacking him because the media doesn't like how they anticipate the court has decided cases and may decide upcoming cases. was that a window into what may be coming down the pipe in the next two weeks? how did you interpret that? >> i mean, i definitely interpreted it as being a harbinger for bad things to come. >> did you get the sense when he was talking about the media and specifically citing propublica, for example, and their expensive investigators reporting about clarence thomas, that these stories are very much being shared behind closed doors at the supreme court? his media awareness seemed to be relatively high. >> it is very high, and he already had a sense of grievance when i first spoke with him in 2023, but it was much more pronounced this year i think in the two conversations that both allie and i had with him. >> can we talk about the context here? the fact is, you and your colleague both had conversations with the alitos. for those who have not been to historical society of us, is this what happens at them? we know two bombshell series of reports about conversation, advocacy campaigns that are happening between attendees and the justices on the supreme court. >> it is interesting, i had actually read that initial report in the new york times about reverend schenck and that is part of what played into my going in the first place but i did not read that report and think i should become a member now. it really was incited by the propublica reporting on clarence thomas and it is interesting that justice alito wants to rail about the money taken by propublica for investigating public servants while clarence thomas is not disclosing millions of dollars of gifts from gop donors and i have no idea what propublica's finances are but as someone who is an independent journalist, i would imagine that the money that clarence thomas is taking probably read the budget of propublica in any given year. >> is such a good point, what did you hear in justice alito's explanation for that? did you hear -- it almost seems as if there is certainly no contrition, but there is not even an acknowledgment that there was any wrongdoing on the part of clarence thomas in accepting potentially millions of dollars in unspecified gifts from conservative donors? >> it is not verbatim, but it is almost for meeting -- verbatim, making something out of any little thing. i don't consider any little thing to be buying my mother's house or paying for my nephew's tuition or getting a free rv loan. and these are all things he has accepted from gop donors. so, it would be a much different story if this were just about vacations he was taking with his wife and the family, most people would write it off as, it was a trip. most people would not consider traveling with friends or associates as being something that is that big of a deal, that is not actually what we are talking about with clarence thomas, is it? >> no, it is another order of magnitude, it would seem. and it has been going on for years. i guess some part of me is surprised that you, not knowing the alito's, you're just a random member of the historical society, is able to even get within shoulder rubbing distance of a justice and then draw him into conversation about some of the most incendiary topics in this country, which is a partisan divide. how did it actually unfold when you were in the room with the justice? >> it should be stated that in the guidance for the events, the historical society says, if you broach topics that are before the court, it may be grounds for you to be kicked out and so there is definitely a deliberative process in, how do i approach someone that, you know, not only are judges supposed to be really the height of discretion, the height of, you know, judgment, right? this is the highest court in the land, this is the supreme court justice, so i definitely went into this assuming that i was not going to get anything newsworthy. in 2023, i did not get anything newsworthy. but, i thought, you know, throughout the year that transpired, the media's scrutiny on justice alito has intensified so much and his grievance level is probably so much more peaked, that unlike clarence thomas who did not show up to this dinner but has been reported to have shown up to it many times, and he did not show up in 2023, by the way, that justice alito would probably attend anyway, even though he was undergoing this very intense media glare and sure enough, he was there and i think, you know, it was just something that i can't say what was in his mind so i don't know if in 2023, he had the same level of grievance and, you know, it changed over the course of the year? there are a couple options there. did it change or was it always there and he just felt more comfortable? >> was it hard to get him to talk? at the very end of this conversation, he says, are you a lawyer? i think he is talking to your colleague, i am not sure if it is you or her but it wasn't like you had offered any biographical information other than you had a husband who is not in the room. and i wonder why you operate that piece of information? how did you actually get into conversation with him? did you go up to him and start talking to him? >> the reason why i brought up my husband was that in 2023, i came with a male friend. the context of it was, we had a conversation after dinner, in 2023, my male friend was with me , he was not with me in 2024, so when i saw justice alito solo, it was one-on-one. it was, hi, there, my husband really wants to let you know that we are rooting for you, that you really have all the grit. the reason why i said you have all the grit, if it does not stick out to people, this is because donald trump had treated something out about how , you know, there should be more justices like samuel alito , with the grit that samuel alito has, so i felt like it was kind of a flag, if you will , to justice alito, that it was -- >> a safe space for him? >> a safe space, yes. i was trying to signal to him very coyly without saying trump because it goes back to the way the conversation -- to bridge a conversation with someone who has the highest level of discretion come you can't talk about partisan politics, if i had locked up in answer to talking about joe biden or donald trump, he would have shut down. so talking about polarization was really a way into the conversation that wasn't as aggressive but also indicative of what i was really trying to get out, was, is he acting on bias? and i really do believe that the american people deserve to know, is the supreme court so compromise that we do not really have impartiality, the bedrock of our judicial system? i think hearing it from his mouth, that he cannot be impartial, there are things that cannot be compromised, that needs to be fuel for journalists and for congress to say, tell us, what are the things that can't be compromised? >> lauren, look. you brought us into a room that few people are ever in and i think these tapes are revelatory and they are coming at a time of crisis for this court. we are not in having this conversation, thank you for bringing some of that conversation to our air, we are really appreciative, thanks for spending some time with me tonight. >> thank you, alex pick coming up this hour, we have new details about donald trump's presentencing meeting with his probation officer. it turns out he is being treated differently, just maybe not in the way he would like you to believe pick for scott hunter biden today joined donald trump in becoming a convicted felon facing possible jail time. does that mean the system is now en route? we will get into the republican response, coming up next. next. ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ chewy, a citi client, uses citi's financial expertise to help drive its growth and keep its supply chain moving, so more pet parents can get everything they need... right when they need it. keeping more pets, and families, happy. ♪♪ for the love of moving our clients forward. for the love of progress. if you have chronic kidney disease you can reduce the risk of kidney failure with farxiga. because there are places you'd like to be. farxiga can cause serious side effects, including ketoacidosis that may be fatal, dehydration, urinary tract, or genital yeast infections, and low blood sugar. a rare, life-threatening bacterial infection in the skin of the perineum could occur. stop taking farxiga and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of this infection, an allergic reaction, or ketoacidosis. ♪ far-xi-ga ♪ did you know... 80% of women are struggling with hair damage? just like i was. dryness and frizz could be damaged hair that can't retain moisture. new pantene miracle rescue deep conditioner, with first-of-its-kind melting pro-v pearls... locks in moisture to repair 6 months of damage in one wash, without weigh down. guaranteed or your money back! for resilient, healthy-looking hair... if you know, you know it's pantene. ed gutters. call leaffilter today. and never clean out clogged gutters again. leaffilter's technology keeps debris out of your gutters for good. guaranteed. call 833.leaf.filter today, or visit leaffilter.com. that grimy film on your teeth? dr. g? (♪♪) it's actually the buildup of plaque bacteria which can cause cavities. most toothpastes quit working in minutes. but crest pro-health's antibacterial fluoride protects all day. it stops cavities before they start... crest. voices of people with cidp: cidp disrupts. cidp derails. let's be honest... all: cidp sucks! voices of people with cidp: but living with cidp doesn't have to. when you sign up at shiningthroughcidp.com, you'll find inspiration in real patient stories, helpful tips, reliable information, and more. cidp can be tough. but finding hope just got a little easier. sign up at shiningthroughcidp.com. all: be heard. be hopeful. be you. her uncle's unhappy. sign up at shiningthroughcidp.com. i'm sensing an underlying issue. it's t-mobile. it started when we tried to get him under a new plan. but they they unexpectedly unraveled their “price lock” guarantee. which has made him, a bit... unruly. you called yourself the “un-carrier”. you sing about “price lock” on those commercials. “the price lock, the price lock...” so, if you could change the price, change the name! it's not a lock, i know a lock. so how can we undo the damage? we could all unsubscribe and switch to xfinity. their connection is unreal. and we could all un-experience this whole session. okay, that's uncalled for. president biden's son, hunter biden, was found guilty today on three felony gun charges. given this news you might have thought maybe the conspiracy about president biden rigging the justice system, maybe you thought that is going to collapse. it did not. >> today is the first step in delivering accountability for the biden crime family pick >> we have been saying two-tier system of justice for some time. the president son being convicted on three counts -- [ inaudible ] >> it doesn't, every case is different and clearly the evidence is overwhelming here. >> do you think the department of justice is still left nice against conservatives even though we see this verdict today? >> absolutely, when they tell school moms they are domestic terrorists because they don't like what is being taught in their classroom and other things, we can go into it, but -- >> we can go into it, but we want. atrial campaign statement released today callcenter better's trial nothing more than a distraction from the real crimes of the biden crime family. and in lockstep with the party front-runner, the chairman of the house oversight committee, republican james, said the work will not be done until the department of justice investigates everyone involved in the the biden's correct influence peddling schemes. joining me now is the cofounder and editor at large of the bulwark. thank you for joining me. this criminal conviction is apparently a distraction from the real crimes of the biden crime family pick is that strategy going to work? >> today's conviction was awkward, right? it is awkward for the talking point that it was all right, that biden justice department was weapon eyes only against republicans. but we live in a world in which the reality and the fact have a hard time catching up, you can see how deeply invested republicans are in there talking point about the biden crime family pick so it is not a shock that they are going to continue to repeat those talking points over and over and over again. but, i do think the contrast and the reaction to the conviction of donald trump in the conviction of hunter biden has been very, very telling here. again, it is always difficult to know how it is going to play out. we may see this at the debate. and other biden folks think this is going to come up at the debate and you know donald trump is going to try to make an issue of the fact that the president's son is a convicted felon which will be offered, being a convicted felon himself . but democrats have been making this point and let me even make the point that there are a number of democrats who are facing indictments under the biden justice department, not just the president's own son, but a democratic senator, senator menendez, henry cuellar, down in texas, these are all democrats. if the system is so rigged, how do they explain that? the answer is, they don't feel the need to explain that at all. they are just going to go with a spin. >> i just wonder who the spin is for, right? you talk about the reaction, this was a statement from the president of the united states after his son is convicted of felonies. as i said last week, i am the president but i am also a dad, jill and i love our son and we are so proud of the man he is today. so many families who have had loveland battle addiction understand the feeling of pride seeing someone you love, out the other side and be so strong and resilient in recovery. as i also said last week, looks at the outcome of this case and will continue to respect the judicial process as hunter considers an appeal. jill and i will always be there for hunter and the rest of our family with our love and support. nothing will ever change that. it is a very strong statement, it is a tough statement for a father to make, and i think [ inaudible ] whatever the republican argument here is about biden rigging the system, among the -- [ inaudible ] i don't think there is any reason to doubt his word at this point. and again, this creates a really significant difference between the tantrum donald trump and his supporters have thrown and the acceptance of the rule of law and the decision of a jury that was represented with all of this evidence. the point you're making is, who is this for right now? almost everything republicans say is for the audience of one, it is for donald trump. this is what the base wants to hear about that is not the group of voters who will be deciding the selection. >> not to ask too poetic about it but i think embedded in biden's statement is a call to empathy, right? for those who have fallen, for people who have addiction and are trying to make it through a dark period, versus trump, who is all grievance all the time, and i think we think a lot -- we don't know a lot about where this country is headed, but really, appealing to people's since of forgiveness and empathy does not seem like a political strategy that has an expiration date. am i being too soft here? >> no, again, it is a very interesting contrast. if donald trump's superpower is his shamelessness, his refusal to ever take responsibility or apologize, joe biden's superpower is his empathy. and again, republicans aren't going to give him any credit for it but i do think there are a lot of americans who are going to say, this is a tragic situation, there are questions about hunter biden's judgment and his behavior, but also what you are seeing from joe biden is, this is what a father, a father who has lost his other son, how they would react to something like that. and i think there will be a sliver of the electorate, a crucial sliver, that is going to look at that and say we understand that seems human to us. that seems like something that we can identify with and admire as opposed to the constant conspiracy theories and the victim cardplaying and really, the vicious attacks on the criminal justice system and the jury system coming from donald trump. >> it is a real choice i had. this is going to be very, very indicative of who we are as a country. thank you again for your time, it is great see you. >> thank you. still to come this evening, we have new reporting about what appears to be a coordinated effort to broadcast disinformation about this fall's election on your local newscast. when it comes to donald trump a criminal conviction, republicans need a reality check. we have one, that is next. nex. with all the money i saved i thought i'd buy stilts. being so tall definitely has its advantages. oh whoa. here you go, kiddo. thanks. hi honey ready to go? yup. there it is, there it is... ahhh...here we go. i guess it also has some disadvantages. yes it does. only pay for what you need. ♪liberty. liberty. liberty, liberty.♪ as americans, there's one thing we can all agree on. the promise of our constitution and the hope that liberty and justice is for all people. but here's the truth. attacks on our constitutional rights, yours and mine are greater than they've ever been. the right for all to vote. reproductive rights. the rights of immigrant families. the right to equal justice for black, brown and lgbtq+ folks. the time to act to protect our rights is now. that's why i'm hoping you'll join me today in supporting the american civil liberties union. it's easy to make a difference. just call or go online now and become an aclu guardian of liberty. all it takes is just $19 a month. only $0.63 a day. your monthly support will make you part of the movement to protect the rights of all people, including the fundamental right to vote. states are passing laws that would suppress the right to vote. we are going backwards. but the aclu can't do this important work without the support of people like you. you can help ensure liberty and justice for all and make sure that every vote is counted. so please call the aclu now or go to my aclu.org and join us. when you use your credit card, you'll receive this special we the people t-shirt and much more. to show you're a part of the movement to protect the rights guaranteed to all of us by the us constitution. we protect everyone's rights, the freedom of religion, the freedom of expression, racial justice, lgbtq rights, the rights of the disabled. we are here for everyone. it is more important than ever to take a stand. so please join us today. because we the people means all the people, including you. so call now or go online to my aclu.org to become a guardian of liberty. we're trying to save the planet with nuggets. because we need the planet. and we also need nuggets. impossible. we're solving the meat problem with more meat. (vo) in two seconds, eric will realize they're gonna need more space... (man) gotta sell the house. (vo) oh...open houses. or, skip the hassles and sell directly to opendoor. (man) wow. (vo) when life's doors open, we'll handle the house. i just went through a rigged trial in new york. >> it is a rigged system, a terrible system, actually, but it is a rigged system. >> the whole system is rigged. >> this was a rigged trial by a conflicted judge who was corrupt. >> rigged, rigged, rigged, rigged. that has been donald trump by the refrain during his criminal trial in new york, the entire system is rigged against him. and yet, the system really seems to be bending in his favor lately as we saw yesterday at his probation interview. trump's interview lasted less than half an hour and trump was allowed to attend the meeting over zoom from his mar-a-lago beach club in florida. with his lawyer, seated by his side. just for perspective here, according to a statement released by multiple public defender groups in new york city, public defenders are deprived of joining their clients for these meetings, the option of joining these interviews virtually by zuma is typically not extended to the people we represent either. joining me now is duncan levin who was a federal prosecutor and served as a senior staffer in the manhattan va's office, he is now a criminal defense attorney. thank you for joining me to make sense of this madness her. first of all, the circumstances of this probation, they sound relatively easy, maybe even cushy but donald trump says that everything is rigged against him. who is right? >> this is something that is a routine and it typically takes hours. to the extent that there have been things that have been different for him, they have only been different in his favor. most defendants have to come there in person, it is a drab office, these things take hours, there are reports his probation interview took half an hour. this is an opportunity for probation to actually ask the types of questions that a judge might want to know on sentencing that don't come out in the trial. this defendant is somebody who is so well vetted, everybody knows everything, but for most defendants, the judge does not have a sense of who they are as a person. what their family situation is, with her immigration status is, are they using drugs? a lot of people notice about donald trump but you could say half an hour maybe all you need but the fact is, this is them doing their due diligence and to the extent that it is on zoom, the lawyer is there, it is only half an hour, to the extent it is rigged or indifferent, it is only been in his favor picked >> the other piece of this he likes bringing up is the presence in this case on the da side of amending matthew purkey. they were to the department of justice and now works for alvin and they have literally used matthew to be like, the missing link between job biden, the publisher of the justice department and alvin bragg, the prosecutor that has sought charges against donald trump. for people who aren't familiar with this line of attack, this is how comp talks about matthew. >> matthew colangelo is a radical left from the doj who was put into the state, working with lakisha james , and then was put into the district attorney's office to run the trial against trump. >> we will take issue with it put into passive in that statement but you have gone between the doj and the das office, so you know what it is like, i guess, to be a plant. first of all, is that a normal thing that happens? and how in line with reality is this argument? >> this is something that is also being jammed up on capitol hill a lot. in a letter today, the department of justice said this was conspiratorial speculation. i think it is something a lot more sinister and dark that is going on, this is an attempt to really undermine law enforcement and to so distrust of the public if enforcement function. first off, the manhattan das office and doj walk together all the time, everything today. there are joint task forces on terrorism, on hate crimes, there is a joint task force that looks the filings the banks viral, the suspicious activity reports, there have been drinking since i have been prosecuted by the department of justice and manhattan das office against banks like standard charter, hsbc, ing and barclays, there have been cases every day that rd conflicting between department of justice and the manhattan das office, they don't arrest the same person or step on each other's toes and people go back and forth, and from the manhattan das office to the aspersion of justice and back to the manhattan das office, robert morgan was the most famous manhattan da who served for 35 years from 1975 to 2010, prior to becoming elected as a manhattan da with the united states attorney for the southern district of new york. >> he was an obama plant quick >> exactly, a stooge of the ministration. >> it is preposterous, right? and yet there is no sense these cries of foul play are going to end anytime soon. this is all coming to a head on july 11 when there is the sentencing hearing for trump and i guess i wonder what your expectation for that is and whether there is anything to be done around the cries of foul play in a rigged system that are inevitably going to come up no matter what trump is sentenced to? >> this is such a hard decision for the judge and you would not wish it on your worst enemy and frankly on both sides, nobody should want him to go to jail or want anyone to go to jail, it is a sad day. that being said it is a tough decision for him to make. the prosecution is virtually going to be asking for jail time. the defense is looking for a conditional discharge saying he has been punished enough by the felony and that is it. it will be an outcry on both sides no matter what it is. this is something that is very difficult decision. i don't know that there is any way to the political thicket of it, other than to say this is a judge who has really been around the block and will be taking this seriously unfairly and i think you'll see a sentence that is free of some of those political considerations, something that he will be, maybe dom amato, but i think both sides will be able to make of it like a rorschach test, if you will, they will be able to argue around it what ever it is. >> that is not exactly -- you are not giving me the inside dope on what you think it would be and i would never put you on the spot for that, but for all the we have seen thus far it feels like the volume is only going to increase. thank you, my friend, for being here, helping us all through this. coming up, trump appointee judge eileen cannon tosses out part of trump's indictment in the classified documents case. we are going to get to that but first, some very orwellian messaging broadcast from your trusted local news station, that is next. next. at bombas, we're obsessed with comfort. softness. quality. because your basic things should be your best things. one purchased equals one donated. visit bombas.com and get 20% off your first order. when life spells heartburn... how do you spell relief? r-o-l-a-i-d-s rolaids' dual-active formula begins to neutralize acid on contact. r-o-l-a-i-d-s spells relief. our greatest responsibility is to serve our treasure valley communities. >> eastern iowa communities. >> we are extremely proud of the quality balanced journalism that cbs-4 news produces. >> but we are concerned about a troubling trend of irresponsible, one-sided news stories plaguing our country. >> we are concerned about a troubling trend of irresponsible, one-sided news stories plaguing our country. do you remember that nightmare fuel from 2018? the media organization, sinclair broadcast group, which owns nearly 200 local tv news outlets, had dozens of their local anchors across the country all read the same orwellian script about bias in the media. >> unfortunately, some members of the media use their platforms to push their own personal bias and agenda to control exactly what people think. this is extremely dangerous to our democracy. >> today, sinclair broadcast group was caught again, with dozens of local anchors, again, reading the same script. the newsletters public notice and popular information first brought attention to the copycat newscast, which featured a script you might say has a very clear, conservative agenda. >> the wall street journal calling into question the mental fitness of president joe biden. >> illustrate journalism with reporting calling into question the mental fitness of president joe biden. >> is national correspondent matt galka tells us, the issue could be an election decider. >> the issue could be an election decider. >> now, the story, these dozens of local news outlets ran with was based on a widely panned piece in the wall street journal last week, claiming that behind closed doors, president biden was showing signs of mental slippage. the only people quoted on the record in that piece to support that reporting were republican officials, including former speaker of the house, kevin mccarthy, who is not at all known for being the most reliable anything. meanwhile, several democrats including senator chris have come out publicly to say that they get quotes to the wall street journal for that piece and the paper chose not to include them. include them. chose not to include them. said he told the journal that biden is someone who is sharp, engaged, and leads the conversation. on aside from the clear partisan edge to all of this, recent polling from gallup says that americans have very low trust in media outlets. just 32% of the country trust the media. but, that is not true when it comes to local news. pew research polling from earlier this year showed that 71% of americans trust their local news outlets. which is what makes what sinclair is doing here snow so nefarious. maybe you don't trust the wall street journal or cable news, but it might trust the station that gives them the weather, and that is the real issue. >> that issue could be an election decider. election decider. because there are places you'd like to be. farxiga can cause serious side effects, including ketoacidosis that may be fatal, dehydration, urinary tract, or genital yeast infections, and low blood sugar. a rare, life-threatening bacterial infection in the skin of the perineum could occur. stop taking farxiga and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of this infection, an allergic reaction, or ketoacidosis. ♪ far-xi-ga ♪ they say we should stop eating so much meat. an allergic reaction, or ketoacidosis. so we made meat out of plants. because we aren't quitters. impossible. we're solving the meat problem with more meat. if you have generalized myasthenia gravis, picture what life could look like with... vyvgart hytrulo, a subcutaneous injection that takes about 30 to 90 seconds. for one thing, could it mean more time for you? vyvgart hytrulo can improve daily abilities and reduce muscle weakness with a treatment plan that's personalized to you. do not use vyvgart hytrulo if you have a serious allergy to any of its ingredients. it can cause serious allergic reactions like trouble breathing and decrease in blood pressure leading to fainting and allergic reactions such as rashes, swelling under the skin, shortness of breath, and hives. the most common side effects are respiratory and urinary tract infections, headache, and injection site reactions. it may increase the risk of infusion-related reactions and infection. tell your doctor if you have a history of infections or symptoms of an infection. talk to your neurologist about vyvgart hytrulo for gmg and picture your life in motion. oh, why leaffilter? it's well designed, efficient, i appreciate that. leaffilter's technology keeps debris out of your gutters for good, guaranteed. what more could you ask for? call 833.leaf.filter today, or visit leaffilter.com. in an order that otherwise denied yet another attempt to end the criminal prosecution of donald trump over his handling of classified documents, judge aileen cannon has given trump a partial win. she decided to strike one incident from special counsel jack smith's indictment, the paragraph describing that after he left the presidency, trump allegedly showed a classified map of a foreign country to a representative of a political action committee while saying that an ongoing military operation in the country was not going well. trump allegedly admitted at the time that he shouldn't be showing the map to someone without security clearance, and told the person not to look too closely at it. but, while the incident illustrates how allegedly cavalier trump was with classified information, prosecutors never charged trump with crimes involved with sharing classified information, and now the judge has struck it from the indictment. joining me now is bradley moss, a national security attorney who routinely represents national officials and members of the military in matters pertaining to classified documents. how big of a deal of it -- is it for prosecutors that this has been struck from the indictment? >> it is certainly not a critical factor. all this means is that it is not sitting in what is otherwise known as a speaking indictment. it is still information prosecutors can bring out at trial, and almost certainly will litigate to make sure they can bring it out, as evidence of a prior bad act strictly in the context of mr. trump's intent, his motive, his desire, his willingness to conceal this information that he knew -- he knew he had classified documents, he knew he wasn't authorized to have them and he was retaining them at mar-a- lago. this is a minor, little victory for mr. trump. otherwise, the motion was denied. otherwise, the issue, of course, is that it just took so long. this could have been resolved weeks ago. it never needed to take this long. >> if it is not a significant win for trump, is it indicative, though, of a broader tension between the special counsel's office and this judge? because throughout this case -- and it seems like it has ratcheted up in recent months -- there is maybe not a volley because it seems like it is coming from one side, the judge does not seem happy with jack smith or his team. >> yes, certainly the tensions continue to boil and they have reached the point where in a hearing just a few weeks ago, prosecutors were so upset and frustrated with their attempts to try to explain to judge cannon their view on the case law and how certain legal precedents apply that the judge had to basically counsel them to calm down. none of us were there, i don't know how badly that got out of hand, but it is never a good sign when you are a lawyer and the judge is telling you to calm down. but, let's be honest about where this is going. judge cannon, for whatever reason, has chosen to take a slow and methodical approach. she hasn't granted donald trump anything of substance, yet, at any point in this case. but because of how she has dragged it out, because she is making sure the classified portions in particular are taking forever, it is almost guaranteed this will never see the light of day, it will never go to trial before people go to the voting booth in november. >> that seems guaranteed, there seems to be a question about whether we will see the trial, period. but, that seems to be based on politics. trump filed another motion to dismiss today, this one says that the fbi destroyed evidence by not preserving exactly where the classified material was in proximity to nonclassified material and trump is arguing he didn't pack the boxes, he didn't know what was in there. how substantive is this? or, does it matter, is it just more delay, delay, delay? >> i think it is largely a delay tactic, but the hope is that they might get an evidentiary hearing, something big mentioned in the motion, they want a hearing to probe into how this was conducted, how the boxes were organized, this way whether or not there is something to whether there are allegations of bias or improper storage. on the merits, it's garbage. it has nothing to do with anything in terms of destruction of evidence, and it doesn't absolve trump of the idea that he willfully retained the documents. he knew he had them in 2022, when he turned stuff over to the archives. they told him, hey, there's classified documents in this stuff. they knew he had them over the course of the next year, talking to his lawyers telling him, turn them over. and the fbi kept funding stuff in what you are turning over. it will ultimately not change anything, but quite possibly with the way judge cannon handles things, it could drag it out just a little bit more. >> just a little bit more. we are now at the first anniversary of the mar-a-lago case, the grand jury and bob dikeman came down on june 8th, 2023. anyone's guess if we get to the second anniversary. bradley moss, thank you, sir, for your time tonight. >> have a good night. >> that is our show for this evening. now, it is time for "the last word", with jonathan k part. lawrence o'donnell come in for jonathan.