. >> seven days from a presidential debate, just as for january 6th is delayed again. we got the judges that have been groomed, put into the pipeline, to do what they are now doing. >> tonight, how the far-read radical court keeps creating its own law. >> once i or the other. once under the other is going to win. then, judge a len cannon puts jack smith's case on trial amid new reporting on the federal judges who asked her to step aside. louisiana mandates religion in the classroom. >> this bill mandates the display of the 10 commandments in every classroom. >> tonight, the hollywood origins of louisiana 10 commandments. >> those who will not live by the lord shall die by the lord! >> when "all in" start right now. good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. all eyes on the supreme court this week again. the end of its term quickly approaches and the justices dragged their feet on some of the most hotly disputed decisions. today, the court released four opinions, but still no ruling on the most pressing case of the year, the one that has a clock ticking against it. of course, donald trump's claim that he is immune from being prosecuted for any of his actions while in office. the court heard arguments in the case, trump and united states, back in february. we have been waiting want is 13 days and counting for a decision. every day that passes makes it more more likely that donald trump will not face legal accountability before the election for his attempted insurrection, but the voters will not be provided information about whether or not he is guilty of this crime. amid that backdrop, it really feels like this supreme court is acting less like a court and more like a right-wing legislature appointed for life. the conservative majority, including three justices appointed by donald trump, increasingly behaves like they have a political agenda to carry out. as we have seen, particularly with justices like clarence thomas, they're making incredible copper miser to get it all done. of course, there's key differences, constitutional differences between the court and legislator. when a new class comes to congress, for example, they have campaigned on a proactive agenda to voters that they plan to enact, and then they come into congress and understand that there's a time limit on their plans with elections happening every few years and political, and what have you. so, they try to get moving quickly on their agenda. legislators, of course, are not bound by precedent the way the court is were used to be. if the party in power does not like a piece of legislation previously passed, say, the affordable care act, they can campaign on repealing it, and they're welcome to try to repeal it as many times as they like. of course, if the legislation is as popular as the affordable care act proved to be, they may not have the votes they need to succeed, but the supreme court doesn't work the same way -- or it is not supposed to. the court is supposed to rule on very difficult matters of law and controversies as they arise out there in the world. they don't have the power like legislators to introduce a bill or a case they really want to rule on. they have to wait for an issue to come before them. but the key thing about this maga court is that everyone in the right-wing universe fully understands the basic we want to be a legislature. they do have ambitious agenda. they do feel like time is of the essence. so, the conservative institutions and groups are constantly teeing up the issues they want the court to hear. they're all kinda working together, even if they don't communicate with each other as such. we saw this in donald trump's third supreme court nominee, amy coney barrett, who was a clear vote against abortion rights was confirmed days before the election, ruth bader ginsburg had just passed away. when that happened, mississippi's attorney general's are opening, and she went back to the court, because she knew there was a 6-3 court, to exquisitely, and her filing to explicitly ask them to overturn roe v. wade she didn't do that before, but when she saw the numbers, she said, actually, let's go here, and it worked. they did exactly that two years ago this coming monday. the abortion bill -- mifepristone kate -- case -- right-wing antiabortion activists said, let's take a shot at this and try to ban mifepristone nationwide via judicial fiat. their argument was preposterous, , and the food and drug administration should not have approved mifepristone as abortion medication and officer missed out on giving birth had suffered an injury and therefore, outstanding. that was a step too far, even for this court, which unanimously dismissed the case on standing grounds last week the same circumstances surrounding the tax case the court decided today. again, conservative think tank brought this case for the united states, and a little complicated. it was a trump-era tax reprobation, but essentially to get the court to rule principally against the possibility of a wealth tax, a policy the aggressive's, including senator elizabeth warren, oppose. once again, went too far even for the maga court. they rejected the challenge, this time, 7-2. again, why not take a shot? right? we are seeing another case in the last 48 hours, teeing up in louisiana where republican governor jeff landry just signed a bill requiring the 10 commitments to be displayed in every public class, with the public schools in the state -- an undercurrent precedent, the law is obviously unconstitutional. i would say, obviously unconstitutional even if it wasn't under current precedent, but there's plenty of established precedent here. in 1980, the supreme court knocked down a very similar raw , ruling was prohibited under the first amendment. governor landry says -- and i quote -- i can't wait to be sued . of course, he can't. that makes sense, because this is all part of the transparent conservative plant to take advantage of this court behaving more like a legislature, eager to act on right-wing issues. do it now while they have this 6-3 majority before something can change. sometimes, they really do overstep. they try to say things there that are a little bit too not even for these justices. i know 7-2, but that is for now. right? not written in stone. once you throw out the notion of precedent, then, the right- wing also knows, if donald trump is reelected, he married a this may very well get your replacement on the court and get an even stronger conservative majority, and in the meantime, they might as well shoot the shot, because what the supreme court had become is really an an elected lifetime legislature, the majority of whom were elected by presidents who didn't even win the popular vote. former u.s. attorney, clerked for two previous supreme court justices, emily must all, just as correspond for the nation, joining me now. first, let me ask each of you if you probably agree. i should say, this is a four that mark justice, my wife kate shot, all the folks that just want me -- not a novel insight on my part of this. a proactive agenda acting like a legislature in terms of what cases they're reaching out and taking. does that scan for you, harry, comparing it to what it used to be like when you clerked? >> vividly. it is even stronger, chris, then you are saying. the louisiana case is a perfect case in point. if you are a court that cares about precedent and the rules of law, what you stay with for a state legislature boldly and actively flatly unconstitutional provision under the current law is forget about it, that's the law on the land, you have to follow it, change it, we will see you then. until then, please follow the supremacy clause and the law of the land. the sponsor actually said she wants all children to look up and see what god says is right and what god says is wrong. it is really, in fact, a violation. it goes to show the repercussions of this hyper conservative court because this wasn't done with in the coronation with the courts, but the groups were there, and they were emboldened and enthusiastic. ring it on. is considered knowing that they can act directly contrary to the constitution, or at least as we now understand it, and that's just another court setting an agenda. we saw this very much in dobbs as well. was an just went the state actually changed as long and asked the supreme court to do it, but other states, going forward, were violating roe and getting away with it. that is not the way the rule of law is supposed to work. however you think you are going to change it in the future. >> ellie, to argue against myself for a moment -- or play devils advocate and get your response -- in some ways, you have been looking at mifepristone 9.0 or moore 7-2, teed up by the conservative groups. they were wacky, wacky legal theories. in the end, this very conservative court ruled against them pretty happily pretty good say, look, they really are still doing law, they're not just, essentially, doing the bidding of the right- wing. what do you say to that? >> no, chris. you forgot about the guns. right? in a wacky legal theory that leads to mass shootings and mass death, guess what? the court is right back on schedule doing the nra's bidding. i want to get your question about whether or not this is due, because i think it is important for people to understand that, in the conservative's on mind, and the republican groupthink, they're on their revenge door, because from republican effective, the court has been acting like a super legislator in the '60s when it ended segregation, when we had the civil rights era and all that kind of stuff.so, they think they have made a false equivalency between treating black people and women as people with, like, my 10 commitments back into that kind of topsy-turvy thing. but they think that they are getting their revenge on the 1960's and 1970's. they're wrong, but one of the reasons why they're wrong is because this idea that the warren court sort of superseded elected majorities in the south is kind of wrong when you remember that the 1964 civil rights act and the 1965 voting rights act were probably popular and pass through the democratic process, not the supreme court process. that's the part of the story the republicans always seem to forget. if they could pass a law banning abortion, if they could pass a law, you know, allowing anybody and their mother to own guns, i would like to see them try. they would lose elections. but because they would lose elections, that's why they have gone to the conservative buddies in the supreme court. >> this is the thing that i find that the city issue -- something i really do come january 6th, 2020, which is the law is what a sufficient critical mass report of people law degrees say at any given level. it is what will people acculturated to legal culture accepted as an argument. in the case of 2020, the ottomans were too bad to get a critical mass of those people, whether in the white house counsel's office or in courts, but that is not fixed in stone. what you have, harry, is a situation where, in the political sphere, the limiting issue is politics. pass it, is a popular, do you get backlash? in the judicial spirit, it is precedent and legal reason. right? but if you throw out the precedent and legal reasoning and do what you want to do but you no longer have limiting condition of politics, then that is a really, really scary place to be, which is where it feels like we are headed towards . >> yeah. at least in the short term. look, there are three things going on here. the first is, just as elie says -- there's a difference, it so happens, even if held in good faith, the views of the current court really are very much out of step with what you just said , 90% of the lawyers and the legal scholars would say, for starters. second, they have jumped into the political ground. how else can you make sense of the way they have shielded trump, in this case, and helped him in the colorado case? it is sort of a problem, the agenda there, and other we helped donald trump, it is not a legal principle. third -- and this is connected with the ethical problems you said -- there's a certain contempt, not something that they're out of step with the people, on the part of several of them, we are, we don't care, we're proud of it, that's why we got here. that is what distinguishes robbers -- for example it is very conservative instincts, but that viewpoint from the court is not is and will get them in trouble. >> that brings us, as we have the gun case coming, we have got this sort of whole apparatus for the administrative state coming, elie .we also have this immunity thing. if you were to ask me what my guess is in terms of that sort of contentiousness, it is to do it on the very last day -- basically saying, we are taking the maximal time to delay for donald trump, and good night, have a nice summer, we have major he can't see trump. >> they can do with them, or they can do it on the day of the debate. they just announced the opinion day wednesday, most likely going to have one next thursday. that's the day of the debate. what better time than to give trump a gift of saying that he is immune from all prosecutor crimes other than the day right before he goes to debate to run for reelection, but the part of me that is like -- look -- i also want to see the immunity decision. i think it is important. but, needs people to realize they already won. >> right, yes. >> they already did everything they had to do to keep trump -- right? the fix is already in. we're now kind of waiting for their reasoning behind the fix, but they have already secured trump won ability to run for reelection before he is brought to justice or even a trial over january 6th again, when harry is talking about the political rulings, it is kind of obvious for everybody to see -- and i keep waiting for the political branches, for the people i vote for, to do something about these guys, to lock arms, unify and say, you know what, we're going to get rid of the filibuster, and we're going to bring the supreme court to heal. we are going to expand the court with justices who believe in precedent as opposed to these yahoos who don't. i keep waiting for the people i vote for to realize that the supreme court is a clear and present danger to their entire political agenda, to the entire separation of powers in the constitution, and to take the power back from the supreme court that they have ceded to them over these past 25 years. >> harry litman , elie mystal, appreciate you both. coming up, the endless mar- a-lago document case -- speaking of delays -- how judge cannon ignored this bombshell advice, strong urging from senior judges to step aside. the state of the trial, next. to help you feel better. six digestive symptoms. the power of nature. iberogast. why would i use kayak to compare the power of nature. hundreds of 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two years since federal agents executed a search warrant on mar-a-lago to retrieve the top secret classified documents donald trump school. the ex-president still has not gone a trial, even as we have seen other high-profile cases like, for instance, the conviction of sam bankman- fried, ongoing trial of senator menendez, moving in a much faster pace. menendez was indicted in september, i want to say, and there's one reason for that. judge eileen cannon. the trump appointee has stymied the government's attempt to bring this case to trial, it is clear she is some combination of in the tank for the ex- president or in way over her head relative to her experience as a judge. a piece in "the new york times" quote, shortly after cannon oversaw the trump documents case, two more expert colleagues of the federal bench in florida urged her to pass it up and handed off to another jurist, but can and wanted to keep the case and refused the judge's intrigues. mary mccormick served as the acting assistant attorney general for national security and justice and is cost of the msnbc podcast muted prosecuting donald trump." she joins me now. mary, i found this really quite striking, because you and i had a discussion precisely about this, about mentorship, about trial experience, about the complexities of trial like this vs. a judge who has only done a few criminal trials. what was your reaction to this? >> i thought of that very conversation, chris, because i said, she sits in a courthouse along with no other more senior judges, and in the district where i practiced for so much of my career the department of justice, even still, there is such a wonderful group of senior judges who take a new judges under their wing and help them to understand how to manage a big, obligated case, how to understand classified information, seizures, and might have urged -- as it appears from this article -- that a chief judge down in florida might have urged her to not take this case, given the previous rulings she had made and been reversed on by the 11th circuit related to, essentially, halting the government's review of the seized documents pursuant to a search warrant. when i saw this, i thought, gosh, i guess i was wrong that there was no mentorship there, but that mentorship clearly failed. you know, i am also somewhat surprised to see that this kind of link out, because that is based on their in and of itself. >> i have the same reaction, that the federal judiciary tends to be a very difficult place to shake these kinds of things out of. a little more detail here, one of the senior judges -- chief judge of this to celia and tanaka, a republican appointee from george davilas, said to have made a more pointed argument, benefit for judge cannon to oversee trial because of what happened during the investigation, to trump's and i may, of course, the fact that she issued that pretty wild ruling, stopping the government from accessing its own evidence, appointing a special master, then reversed, 3-0, that was an interesting thing to me as well. >> absently. it is wanting to say, look, this will be a very big case for you to take on as a revenue judge, and it will involve classified information, comp located procedures under the classified information procedures act, you know, lots of office and you don't actually even have a sensitive component of implantation facility within that courthouse, which means one will have to be billed to the tune of millions of dollars. maybe this is not the right case at the right time for you. it is wanting to say that. it is a whole other thing for a chief judge -- if the reports are accurate -- to say, the optics of this are bad, and i appreciate that the judge recognized that i think we all recognize that, at least the rest of us, but to say it is i guess i'm not surprised, because she assumed it was a confidential conversation, but even still, it did feel like we really got a window into a private conversation with the reporting today. >> one of the things i was marveling at today as i was considering the timeline here is that it is two years since that famous -- almost two years -- since that famous search warrant was served. part of the reason it has taken so long to get from a search warrant to the indictment itself is because there was a massive delay in that process created by judge aileen cannon. even before the indictment, she played a role in stringing this out, and now she's playing a role stringing and not having the cases jumped. >> very true. the government had to go up to the court of appeals and seek a stay of her order and then appeal it. the court of appeals granted that stay, so they reversed judge cannon twice, but that still takes time. you have got to divert resources to writing a brief, call to a halt the review of the evidence that was seized. you are right. there are just so many different times where a delay has been -- occurred here -- i want question we don't know, have these type of phone calls all of his or attempts in mentorship -- continued -- have there been any discussions about, you know, some of these motions? probably don't require hearings? i don't know. >> also, what are the things to point out, there's a certain sort of motion process that has the magistrate judge, as a standard matter. not for ricky judges. she is not doing that. she is intentionally increasing her workload. it is in ways that are anomalous compared to other judges who have magistrate judges do that ruling. tomorrow, like, she is running a little supreme court on a constitutional -- of whether the appointment of the special counsel is constitutional, including, like, amicus pleas from interested parties. >> not just amicus briefs, but allowing them to actually embark you, which is very unusual at the district court level. it is even unusual at the supreme court level. usually, the solicitor general of the united states, when they're amicus, they always get to argue, congress, but it is usually a government party, not just interested law professors that is the case tomorrow. so, it is highly unusual the way she is treating hearing, and such extensive hearings, when things that i think most judges would simply have ruled on the papers, but that adds to delay as well. >> yes, yes. again, everything points in one direction, which is delay, which is what we have gotten. the motivations, the reason for that, remains locked inside the mind of aileen cannon, but the outside we can see, where is this all going in the court? thank you very much. coming up, charlton heston is back, baby. this time, in louisiana public school systems. that's next. >> you have sinned a great sin in the sight of god. you are not worthy to receive these 10 commandments. ♪♪ rising costs. selective coverage. for countless americans, the complex specialty care they need has always felt... just out of reach. ♪♪ at evernorth, we give members unrivaled access to the most complex 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i found out yesterday this was the 2nd tank minutes he made? him in another 130 years earlier? >>. >> it was not just commerce. he was part of a similar type of crusade. >> yeah. we don't think of demille in those terms often, but he is very much a politically active, very conservative and very christian man. he wants to see these values we often associate with the religious right later on, but in the public sphere. what is really rock about this campaign is a kind of light is onto something that is already out there, the fraternal order of eagles, which started this program of putting up 10 commitments, the old scrolls, little posters that they sent out to judges and cops at district attorneys offices who they thought needed the moral guidance. it started with a judge, st. cloud, minnesota, who had heard some young defendant in front of him, but had never heard of the 10 commands -- any kind of sentenced him to study the 10 commitments. knows his penalty. he thought that was a good idea. they start doing this. well, demille latches onto the idea and says, this is great, but you are not big enough. what we need you to do is does not have these people for schools, but have big, stone monuments, all the monuments you showed in the big montage. they're monuments either modeled on or from this campaign that they constructed, even the granite carved out of mount sinai to match the stone. >> you're right. a consummate showing for the director to work on a grander scale instead of my schools, suggesting the craft larger stone monuments that more closely resembled the tablets of exodus. i love our producer got this, which is great. i want to read you -- you get these kind of weird apocryphal histories, right, about the founders, church and state, and this kind of constant historical battle about what this will mean. in the law that was passed, it says, history of course that james maddison, fourth president of the united states, say, that we have staked the whole future of our nation upon the capacity of each of ourselves to govern ourselves according to the moral principles of the 10 commandments. turns out this is what is right wing apocryphal quotes floating out there forever. this is from a 1995 report, from the papers of "madison," who wrote that we did not find anything in our files from -- quote, we did like the sentiment, but the end is because since we know about medicine's -- madison's views. and it all, they have an apocryphal quote about james maddison quoting the 10 commitments. >> it is remarkable. they go hunting for the schools that turn out to be fake. all you have to do is read the plain language in the constitution. there are three references to religion in the constitution. all three are ones that keep religion at an arm's length away from state. there is no religious text required, a remarkable revolutionary act. first amendment says there will be no national religion established by the national government. we will not interfere with your private right to worship or not worship as you see fit. right? that is what the constitution says. so, landry says he wanted to put this up because moses was the first one. he is not. the court, robbie, it gets moses by four centuries or something. also, want to look at the real law on the land, but the constitution up in those roles. let students read but the real law of this country has to say about the proper rule of religion and its role in politics. >> the bill of rights, it has got the same number of items on it. >> same number. >> nice and easy. just got to carve them out of stone. thank you very much, kevin. >> thank you. ahead, "fear and loathing on fox news," president biden barely ekes ahead in a poll. that is coming up. infused with ingredients like biotin & collagen. strengthens hair bonds and repairs as well as the leading luxury brand without the $60 price tag. for stronger, healthier hair. ♪♪ if you know, you know it's pantene. ♪♪ i was stuck. unresolved depression symptoms were in my way. i needed more from my antidepressant. vraylar helped give it a lift. adding vraylar to an antidepressant is clinically proven to help relieve overall depression symptoms better than an antidepressant alone. and in vraylar clinical studies, most saw no substantial impact on weight. elderly dementia patients have increased risk of death or stroke. report unusual changes in behavior or suicidal thoughts. antidepressants can increase these in children and young adults. report fever, stiff muscles, or confusion, as these may be life-threatening, or uncontrolled muscle movements, which may be permanent. high blood sugar, which can lead to coma or death, weight gain, and high cholesterol may occur. movement dysfunction and restlessness are common side effects. stomach and sleep issues, dizziness, increased appetite, and fatigue are also common. side effects may not appear for several weeks. i didn't have to change my treatment. i just gave it a lift. ask about vraylar and learn how abbvie could help you save. it's time to feed the dogs real food, not highly processed pellets. the farmer's dog is fresh food made with whole meat and veggies. it's not dry food. it's not wet food. it's just real food. it's an idea whose time has come. dad and i finally had that talk. no, not that talk. about what the future looks like. for me. i may have trouble getting around, but i want to live in my home where i'm comfortable and my friends are nearby. i can do it with the help of a barber, personal shopper and exercise buddy. someone who can help me live right at home. life's good. when you have a plan. ♪ ♪ one in five children worldwide are faced with the reality of living without food, no family dinners, no special treats, not enough energy to play. all around the world, hunger is affecting children's physical and mental health. toddlers are suffering from acute malnutrition, which stunts their growth. kids are forced to drop out of school so they can help support their families. conflict, inflation and climate have ignited the worst famine in our lifetime, and we are fed up! fed up that hunger devours dreams. fed up, that hunger destroys joy. fed up with the fact that hunger eats childhood. help us feed the futures of children all over the world by visiting getfedupnow.org. for as little as $10 a month, you can join save the children as we support children and families in desperate need of our help. now is the time to get fed up and give back. when you join the cause, your $10 monthly donation can help communities in need of lifesaving treatments and nutrients, prevent children from dropping out of school. support our work with communities and governments to help children go from short term surviving to long term thriving. and now, thanks to special government grants, every dollar you give can multiply up to ten times the impact. that means more food, water, medicine and help for kids around the world. you'll also receive a free tote bag to share your support for children in need. having your childhood eaten away by hunger is unimaginable. get fed up. call us now or visit getfedupnow.org, today. yesterday, we told you about the bubble of fox news became a trump save space. in that world, the very tight race you have seen in virtually every poll this year is with donald trump hurling towards a 1984-style reagan landslide. the only wage joe biden could win is for some dirty business by democrats. a point that was made yet again by greg gutfeld last week. >> if they aren't that worried that joe's going to lose, given his sorry state, what are they planning, what are they doing to save the day, what is up the dems' sleeve? let's say, but somewhere chance that we didn't see coming, given that trump is ahead with a 66% chance of winning, looks like he will get the electoral count, and joe still wins, what do you do after you win? how do you convince anyone that's real? >> yes, how do you convince anyone it's real? he can keep saying, trump has a 60% chance of winning, which one model does show, but fox news' on poll yesterday says something different. it shows biden up over trump for the first time since last october.the president now leads by 2 points, still within the margin of error. again, the race remains, essentially, tied.it is a conflict, neck and neck, choose whatever cliche you want to use. but that has a very good trendline for biden, particularly among independents who have swung to biden by double digits since last month, and since trump was found guilty on dirty for felony counts of falsifying business records to interfere in the 2016 election. but just as little dose of reality has sent fox news spending and reaching for the copium. >> at the end of the day, these elections don't usually turn on amorphous things like the future of democracy. elections turn on things that really matter to people. >> abortion, it is not an issue for me, but a lot of women, it is. >> donald trump is up by 9 points when it comes to immigration. >> trump, also leading among you voters, edging up biden by 4 points. >> i want to make anything of this. we still have one in three americans that feel good about the economy. >> it is only june. >> this isn't an anything-size menu. >> joe biden has a chance because he has the keys to the oval office. >> it is a little funny. if you asked liberals, can donald trump one, they're going to tell you, yeah, he definitely can. they're terrified, in many cases, doing everything they can to stop it. the fox world has been way more bullish, more blithe about their guy's chances. hopefully, this dose of reality gets through to people, anticipating some of the misplaced confidence for them, particularly the notion experienced my little greg over there, you know, that no one will accept it if biden wins. they will have an opportunity for a reality check with biden, the guy they painted as a frail, senile, shell of a man, is actually on stage at the first presidential debate happening a week from tonight. we bring you full coverage right here. t help you find and unlock opportunities in the market. e*trade from morgan stanley i love that my daughter still needs me. but sometimes i can't help due to burning and stabbing pain in my hands, so i use nervive. nervive's clinical dose of ala reduces nerve discomfort in as little as seven days. now i can help again feel the difference with nervive. are your gutters clogged? 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(fisher investments) yes. as a fiduciary, we always put your interests first. because we do better when you do better. at fisher investments, we're clearly different. representative jasmine crockett. listen now wherever you get your podcast. we're eight month s into the war in gaza. and despite some lingering hopes and constant hopes for some sort of cease-fire that would release some of the hostages still being held in gaza and also bring an end to the hostility and suffering in gaza. neither side has thus far agreed to a cease-fire. there's there's no possibility for anything other than war or to even talk about the day after looks like if israel were to when it does end its siege of gaza. in this year's new yorker, it's meant to serve as a model of what peaceful coexistence and coliving would look like. the village was created in the early 1970s by an egyptian priest who envisioned where christian, jews and arabs could live. >> reporter: jewish and arab children celebrate together the birthday of muhammad the birthday of islam. together they build a mosque to honor him. and they teach that despite the ideas israel still does have a choice. >> reporter: guests have visited oasis of peace both before and after. they found a village attempting to reconcile. one resident said a gap had opened between the palestinian residents and some of their jewish neighbors. jews wanted some to denounce. how a palestinian jewish village in israel changed. what prompted you to go to the oasis of peace because you were there before november 7th. >> the first trip i went there was five or six weeks ago when i was working on a political project. which i'm hoping to still write one day. i've been thinking about it actually. actually i finished reviving the chapter on october 7th. you can't make this stuff up. so i immediately wanted to go back out there. it took me a few months to get there. but i wanted to know what people who, who are really invested more than anything else in hope. to live you have to believe that peace is possible. that coliving is possible. and they're very clear it's not near coexistence, it's coliving. it's intentional. so can you believe that after october 7th. and if you do, what does it look like? and what does it look like given that it's still in israel. >> what did you find? >> i found as one person put it, a very loud silence. i also found a place that for many people both jewish but more so palestinians who live in israel who are half the families living there it's the only place they could see themselves being in israel at that moment i know, i talked to people who went back to oasi s after october 7th because they felt that was the only place they could be. and yet as you quoted at the beginning of the story they also felt sort of the contaigon, the aggression, the distrust, the incredible fear of each other. including fear of people that they had grown up with. it had taken hold there too. >> yeah you can feel that kind of, the dark sub text there. it doesn't seem like it's text so much. we're not talking about, you know there have been prior october 7th there had been some really ugly sort of street fights in a place like hifa a city in israel that has the most integrated population. there's nothing like that happening there. there's instead this kind of like, bleak and sort of repressed tension. >> well there's a couple of things happening. so this place, was founded on the belief in the power of dialogue. and basically, whenever something happens, whether it's something small like an employment dispute or something huge like october 7th they could be in a community meeting. and when they started communing commutety meetings they noticed the palestinians weren't attending with every subsequent meeting fewer and fewer palestinians came and they didn't speak. and you can't understand that outside the context of israel where palestinians speech has really been suppressed intentionally and brutally in the wake of october 7th. so they stopped having community meetings. and just before i visited this time, they had figured out what they needed to do. what they needed to do was not have dialogue but process grief. and that's when palestinians could speak. and that's when they started to have a little bit of hope of dialogue and mutual understanding and it's also when they saw just how huge the distance had become. because these two groups, who live in the same village are living in completely different realities. israeli jews are living in reality by israeli television. even if they don't think they watch it. palestinian are living in the carnage after october 7th. they wake up in the morning and they check if they're family in palestine is still alive. and they watch al -jezeera. and they see what the neighbors next door simply don't see. that's almost an unbridgeable divide. >> that part of your reporting was striking to me. because i've encountered that here is very much the case. i have conversations all the time with different friends of mine, sources of mine. people who are coming at this conflict from different sides of the conflict. the degree to which people's algorithmic reality. and the most vile things that can be said at a campus protest. and it's a huge part of the conflict but the way it reverberates everywhere. >> absolutely. the question i wanted to ask when i went there. what are you seeing and what are you hearing. but what does that make you believe about the future. because the whole point of a tiny community is to build a working model of the future. right. it doesn't make a huge difference to anybody except these 80 families, 40 palestinian, 40 jewish to live together. accept as a model. as when sort of the conflict ends. they are there to show the way. and that i felt was the biggest crisis, right. it's this crisis of hope. and people both palestinians and jews in the community talking about buying places in cypress or in greece and leaving because hope is seeping out. >> really amazing, bracing peace. thank you so much. really appreciate it. >> thank you. >> that's all in on this thursday night alex wagner tonight. we start with alicia. >> it is 9:00 here in new york city where the sun set just 29 minutes ago. that's because today was the summer solstice. the longest day of the year and in this country that also means that we have now officially entered an election year