good to be back with you in this second hour of "chris jansing reports." just a few minutes from now, ivanka trump will return to the witness stand in the fraud trial where her most used phrase has been i don't recall. and moments ago, we learned about a new legal maneuver from prosecutors. plus, with his daughter on the stand and republican rivals headed for the debate stage, donald trump looks to take back the spotlight with one of his signature rallies tonight. and a big blow to glenn youngkin's brand as virginia voters thwart his plans for a gop takeover for the legislature. what could it mean for presidential ambitions. breaking news in the hunter biden saga, the republican chairman of the house oversight committee, sending the president -- excuse me. let's go to our nbc reporters. excuse me one sec. apologies for that, lindsey. let's begin in new york city. we're outside the trial in lower manhattan and from what we're seeing from ivanka today, stylistically she's setting herself apart from her brothers and father. we remember the former president combative. she's respectful, goes out of her way to be polite. she's soft spoken. the judge had to tell her to speak up twice. she's also, as you mentioned, thematically saying i don't recall to a lot of the questions from the attorney general's office. they are still able to bring these documents into evidence. it can't necessarily be said that she's not doing anything for the state's case. now, they're establishing the purchase of the old post office. ivanka is the one who made that presentation to the government agency, the gsa. the attorney general argues that the purchase was made with a false statement and false statement of net worth. now, also interestingly, there have been some asides between chris kise, trump's attorney, and the judge, with kise objecting saying they're bringing things way beyond the statute of limitation, saying the government agency was happy with the deal. at one point they were thrilled with the renovation and it was a world class facility, and the judge saying you're starting to sound a lot like your client, followed by laughter in the courtroom. now, some other areas of the attorney general trying to question ivanka about these statements of financial condition. she has testified she never had anything to do with the preparation, also saying she didn't understand or recall, rather, what her understanding was, specifically to a 2011 e-mail in which the gsa was writing about some gaap departures, some departures from the generally accepted accounting principles. we're headed back from the lunch break. as you mentioned, the attorney general filing a motion this afternoon, trying to get four expert witnesses for the defense team essentially dismissed, keep them from testifying, saying their testimony is no longer relevant. we're digging more into that, and we'll keep you posted, chris. >> lindsey reiser, thank you for jumping in when i needed you most. appreciate it. we'll be watching whether donald trump brings up his daughter's testimony in florida. that's designed to counter programming in tonight's debate. nbc's vaughn hillyard is reporting in hialeah, florida, what are we expecting to hear from the former president? that's quite a big place that he's planning to have a rally. >> reporter: right, chris. we're just about 10 miles down the road here in hialeah, which is a heavily cuban-american population, 10 miles down the road from where the debate is taking place tonight. this is the third debate in which he is sticking out and holding a counter programming event. the other republican candidates had hoped by this point that donald trump would have been forced to go to the debate stage, hoping to close his polling lead. but what you see in the latest nbc "des moines register" poll out of the state of iowa, donald trump has 73% support among republican caucus goers, and next up, nikki haley, and ron desantis. for donald trump, he has maintained throughout the summer and now into the fall that there is no reason for him to go to the debate and give any of these candidates the time of day, insisting that he is focused on beating joe biden next november. and for donald trump, he will be here taking the stage, just about an hour before the debate begins, and this is an opportunity for him, as we have seen him on the campaign trail in the past, and while testifying on monday in lower manhattan in the civil fraud lawsuit, make the case he is being politically indicted. just down the road from where the debate is taking place for the other candidates tonight. chris. >> vaughn hillyard, thank you for that. let's go to virginia now. voters delivered a decisive blow against glenn youngkin's ambition for total control of the legislature. 24 hours ago, the governor seemed to have so much political capital. where are we today? >> reporter: just minutes ago he stepped outside of the state house and said he was disappointed. he candidly admitted that. talked about the idea that virginia is perhaps more purple than he actually realized it was. but he did say he's going to continue to push for common sense and common ground on perhaps the biggest issue in this state, and perhaps the reason that things went so democratic yesterday, the issue of abortion. he of course was very clear with his plans for a 15-week abortion ban, and voters were very clear with their answers, delivering democrats both the house of delegates and the state senate. here's what he had to say in his remarks earlier. >> i think one of my aspirations was to find a place to come together on one of these most difficult topics. an abortion is potentially one of the most difficult topics in virginia and around the nation. and my hope is, continues to be, that we can find a way to come together as virginians and lead: i do believe that there is a place we can come together, common ground. this is difficult, and i'm hopeful that the dialogue that we started can continue. >> reporter: and he made a little bit of news on 2024 as well, telling reporters that he's not going anywhere. he's going to continue to be here in virginia, chris. >> gary grumbach, thank you for that. let's go to breaking news we got in moments ago, the powerful house oversight committee will subpoena president biden's son hunter, his brother james and another family associate to appear for an interview. congressman james comer also made it clear he wants to interview other members of the biden family as well. get us up to speed on this breaking news. >> reporter: and this might not be the only round of subpoenas we'll see this week. the house oversight chairman, james comer, saying he's prepared to send additional subpoenas and circumstantial requests for transcribed interviews. this certainly marks a dramatic escalation of house republicans impeachment inquiry into president biden and their multimonth long investigation. we have seen them float this step, potentially foreshadow to taking it. in the last couple of minutes, they are taking it. they are subpoenaing the president's son, hunter biden, they are subpoenaing, in addition to him, the president's brother and robert walker, a family business associate -- >> i'm sorry, i have to interrupt you. vice president harris is talking about last night's election results. let's listen. >> the voters said, look, the government should not be telling a woman what to do with her body. i think voters have been clear regardless of whether they're in a so called red or blue state that one does not have to abandon their faith or deeply held beliefs to agree that government should not be telling a woman what to do with her body. it was a good night, and the president and i obviously have a lot of work to do to earn our reelection, but i am confident we're going to win. so thank you all. >> the vice president on the results of last night's election, which heavily favored the democrats. i had to interrupt you, julie, but let's go back. they want to talk to the members of the biden family. >> reporter: yeah, they do. that's right. three subpoenas issued today. a handful of others for transcribed interviews, including to other members of biden's family. this all comes after the committee obtained bank records that james comer, the chair of the panel says shows a link that president biden had benefitted financially via his family members, via this business partner. again, though, the committee has been investigating this for months now, not only this panel, but two others solely focused on this impeachment industry, investigating the business dealings that comer called quote, shady. there's a link that the biden family set up 20 shell companies that were created during joe biden's tenure as vice president. i should note the committee held multiple hearings, the first at the end of september into the impeachment inquiry itself. that has not produced evidence with the ties. the committee, speaker mike johnson floating that perhaps the subpoenas were long overdue. now they're saying they're perhaps going to get answers from them. we do not have the actual files, the subpoenas themselves which would indicate a date for which the three individuals need to appear for the transcribed interviews. we're still waiting to see that. >> julie tsirkin on the hill for us today, thank you. still ahead, she went from socialite to shunned as ivanka trump tries to rebuild her brand. what it means for her testimony at her father's fraud trial. we're back in 60 seconds. r home. the wayfair homes just have that razzle dazzle. they redid the guest room. all at prices you can't believe but you should and blitzen fast shipping, north pole in two days so this year go to wayfair for goodness sake. the gifts. you have one job nick. ♪ wayfair you've got just what i need ♪ you know that feeling of having to rewash dishes that didn't get clean? i don't. cascade platinum plus... with double the dawn grease fighting power and double the scrubbing power. for a no rewash clean... and a cabinet ready shine. upgrade to cascade platinum plus. dare to dish differently. have fun, sis! ♪♪ can't stop adding stuff to your cart? get the bank of america customized cash rewards card, choose the online shopping category and earn 3% cash back. today, ivanka trump finds herself in a position she desperately tried to avoid, on the stand in a case that could gut the family business she helped to build. often referred to as donald trump's favorite child, ivanka 's demeanor has been the polar opposite of the heated exchanges from her father on monday. our nbc news producer inside the courthouse noting ivanka has been soft spoken and smiling, even as she repeatedly says she doesn't recall details about loans and financial statements. i want to bring in david fahrenthold who has extensively covered the trump family and their business interests. and former assistant d.a. catherine christian. welcome both of you. at the start of the trial when the d.a.'s team called ivanka trump to the stand, the judge joked, who is she. you said there was a time when ivanka was referred to as kind of the chosen one when it came to her father's business empire. tell us about her role in the company before joining the former president at the white house and her decision not to return? >> well, before she entered the white house with her father, she was seen as the heir apparent, she was the one that had the most power within the company. her job was often sort of as an outward facing job. she would talk to bankers, people of potential loans, and she led projects like the one they're talking about in court today, the renovation of the old post office building in d.c., that was temporarily the trump hotel in d.c. she was more involved than her brothers and had a more prominent role inside and outside the company. the ultimate decision maker in that era was always donald trump. the kids could bring ideas to him, proposals to him, and maybe ivanka would have an inside track to getting those approved, there was no decision maker outside of donald trump. that's why he's at the center of the trial, and ivanka is one of the witnesses. >> i wonder if that makes it plausible given, catherine, her, i don't know, i don't remember, i don't recall, although saying, yeah, i recognize that statement. that was my e-mail. she was a big picture person. she was the facing, outward facing person in this company. not necessarily the detail person? >> yes, but. according to the attorney general in their complaint, two of the major deals, the old post office, which became the trump hotel in washington, d.c., and the doral golf club in miami, they were done by ivanka. she was the lead negotiator. she's the one who helped acquire those properties, and according to the ag, the reason why the trump organization received loans for those properties is because of false statements and financial statements. that's why she was called because she was the captain of the two projects, and her i don't recalls, you can say it was ten years ago, but she confirmed facts. she was able to say, yes, that e-mail, yes i was the one who brought deutsche bank in. she was a very important witness for the attorney general. >> a couple of weeks ago, ivanka was snapped by paparazzi going to kim kardashian's birthday party, and today snapped into the manhattan courthouse, being pulled into her father's orbit. people might forget before her dad was president, she was sought after in new york social circles. chelsea clinton was a good friend. there are personal stakes for they are today, and i wonder how does she separate the life she wants to kind of, i guess, rebuild in florida from the legal reality of the morass, the many trials her father is involved in? >> well, she certainly seems to be trying. obviously she hasn't had any involvement with her father's reelection bid that he's making now for 2024. she's not involved in the trump business. her brothers are running it now along with her father. she hasn't come back. she's left new york, lives in isolation in miami. maybe she has a long-term planning to reemerge in society. she seems to have cut herself off. i don't think that's cosmetic, i think that's real, cut herself off from her father's political and business orbit. that separation is real. what we're seeing today is a reminder of how integral she was to that world until 2017. >> after her dad, and correct me if i'm wrong, after her dad, i don't think anybody in the trump circle was better at building a brand, right, monetizing the family name? i think she had a shoe line. she had jewelry collaborations. she wrote a book. is a lot of what her life is about now, frankly, brand rebuilding or trying to make a completely different brand? >> well, i think her aims were different back then. you're right, no one had heard of donald trump jr. or eric trump before their father got into politics. ivanka trump was a well known brand. it wasn't just a brand in a theoretical sense, a brand on your shoes, your purse. she sold a lot of goods with her name, and built a persona that took advantage of her father's fame and made herself an advocate for women. something separate. she's not only lost that brand, lost those merchandising deals. she may try to reestablish herself as a public figure for psychological or sort of the, you know, celebrity purposes. she doesn't need to monetize her fame in the same way she did back then. >> always interesting, catherine, in strategy. what should we make of the fact that this is how they chose to close their case. this is the last witness. is she kind of wrapping up a lot of loose ends? i mean, this is not a jury that has to be reminded of things. it's a little different. why her last? >> exactly. first of all, she's not a defendant. she had her own attorneys who successfully had her removed on the appeal and got her out of the case, and she's poised and respectful. and so her answers except for the i don't recalls, yes, i remember that. yes, that happened. yes i was the one that brought deutsche bank in. you close with a trump, but a trump who is poised and respectful to the court and you can argue was credible. maybe not for the i don't recalls, but credible with the facts they already knew. >> david, and catherine, you're going to be back later this hour. a texas town is being told to shelter in place after explosion triggered a massive fire at a chemical plant. take a look. these are the first pictures we're getting from there. huge plumes of black smoke pouring out of that plant in shepherd, texas, which makes solvents for glue and paint thinner. residents were told to shelter inside as officials warned of the effects of the chemicals in the air. that has now been reduced to one mile. people in nearby livingston are being told to stay inside as the plume of smoke heads toward that part of texas. officials say one plant employee was injured in the fire. still ahead, secretary of state antony blinken sending a very pointed message to israel about what the u.s. will and won't support in a post-war gaza. we'll talk about that with an adviser to prime minister benjamin netanyahu next. benjamin netanyahu next. 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>> serious or not, we'll only have to see how this plays out. but it's clear if the negotiations have entered a more serious stage, it's because israel has been beefing up the pressure on hamas. they're not suddenly going to become humanitarians. they're not suddenly going to become people who have a moral conscience. these are the most brutal bunch of killers that we know. we saw the violence and the atrocities that they committed on october 7th. we know how they treat their own people, how they treat the people of gaza. we have no illusions, but i think by beefing up the pressure, especially the military pressure, it's possible that we're going to start getting our people out, but i have nothing to announce at this stage, and i would think we have to be cautious. >> i think there's always caution when we're talking about hamas, a terrorist organization that, as you say, is known to be brutal killers, but is there another aspect of this? is this also the result of not just the u.s. but also the g7 and worldwide pressure on israel? and is it an acknowledgment that the humanitarian situation is horrendous and israel needs to be part of dealing with that situation? >> so that's a separate issue. it's not related to the talks that might succeed on release of hostages. of course we want them to succeed. but our decision has been as follows. we are relentlessly pursuing hamas. they are our enemy, a brutal enemy, and we will fight them and take apart their military machine in parallel. >> is a three-day pause, as part of that is, it may end up with the release of some hostages, but i'm talking specifically about the three-day pause to allow for some humanitarian aid to get in. >> i can't go into those reports. from our perspective, humanitarian aid can go in now. we're saying in parallel to our campaign against hamas, we are expediting as much humanitarian aid as is possible. the crossing in rafah that separates gaza from egypt is open. the humanitarian zone in the south is receiving internally displaced people. we've got field hospitals there. there's a new field hospital on the egyptian side of the frontier as well. the french are bringing a ship. from israel's perspective, there are no limitations whatsoever on food going in, on medicine going in, on water going in. the humanitarian effort should go ahead regardless of what else happens. >> the fact is more air strikes hit civilians in the southern region today. the u.n. says up to 15,000 people are doing what israel is telling them, moving south, and yet there are still air strikes. can you guarantee the security of the palestinians who are doing what the israeli government is recommending they do, because so far it hasn't worked. >> i wouldn't say it hasn't worked. i would say it's a work in progress. you have to know that today there were missiles fired from the southern part of gaza strip into israeli communities so we respond to that fire. but that's not in the area of the humanitarian zone. the humanitarian zone is -- >> that's not what our people on the ground are seeing. >> no, there's a humanitarian zone on the western edge of the gaza strip there in the south, close to the rafah crossing, close to the coast. it's a specified area. there's not a hamas infrastructure there, and from our perspective that's the safest place to be in the gaza strip, and that's where we're urging people to go. the truth is, literally hundreds of thousands of gazans have voted with their feet, they know this is a safer place to be. it's out of harm's way, and that's where people should go. >> secretary of state antony blinken, sir, just made waves in israeli media at the g7 summit, a day after prime minister netanyahu said israel will oversee security on the strip after the war. blinken very directly warned israel against doing just that. let me play it for you. >> no forcible displacement of palestinians from gaza. not now, not after the war. no use of gaza as a platform for terrorism or other violent attacks. no reoccupation of gaza after the conflict ends. no attempt to blockade or besiege za. no reductionn e territory of gaza. >> he ticked off a laundry list of must has, including palestinian governments, gaza unified with the west bank under the palestinian authority, and a path way to a two-state solution. what is your reaction to secretary blinken's very pointed comments? >> so there's a lot there we agree with. we're in lock step with washington. we don't want to reopen gaza. we don't want to rule over the people of gaza. we don't want to be the sovereign there of the country. >> so what did benjamin netanyahu mean when he said a security presence? >> he was talking about when this is over and we have destroyed hamas, we have to be willing, you know, it's not like we're learning from the mistakes of others. you don't go in there, topple a regime and leave. that's a mistake. we have to make sure there's ongoing security commitment to present a residual hamas or other terrorist groups from filling the vacuum, and we do it, you know, because we have to keep our people safe. we don't want to get back to the situation where we have terrorists in gaza who are coming across the border and killing our people. that's not political control. that's a security envelope to ensure that we don't see a resurgence of terrorism. i think that's common sense, is it not? >> ambassador mark regev, many more conversations that we can and i'm sure will have. thank you for coming on the program. >> thanks for having me. after the break, the powerful message ohio voters are sending to republicans over abortion rights. former governor john kasich will join us next. but first, a live look at the stage for tonight's republican presidential debate in miami hosted by nbc news. the five candidates are currently prepping and sharing part of their debate day routine, the food. >> what's your pre-debate meal? 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>> i've said all along, i think if you take ohio, for example, ohio had a very very stringent law, and the voters looked at him and said, we don't like that. it's too tough. i think the population is in between -- is sort of in the middle, they don't want extremes in the early times, and they don't want extremes at the end, and i think what ohio legislatures did is they wrote a law that was extremely, extremely restrictive. and so that's why i think that we had that resolve. i think abortion mattered in virginia where it was surprising that the governor down there, you know, actually lost one of the houses, didn't win the other one. you know, that was a surprise to me. but if you look down in kentucky, i don't think you can talk about abortion in kentucky as being a big issue. i think andy beshear represented two things, very likable and very competent. i was not surprised that he won. i think that was what explains that. down in mississippi, the republican won. now, abortion, is it going to be a big issue, i mean, going forward into '24, it will matter, but in a presidential election, chris, there's one thing that matters all the time, and that's the pocketbook, and right now, people are unhappy with the state of the economy. it's not enough to talk about lowering the rate of inflation. people want low inflation, they don't want costs to keep going up. i don't think in a presidential race, it will have some impact, but we're not going to flip the state of ohio on the business of abortion if it ends up being trump and biden. it's going to be where is the economy and who can improve it, in my judgment. >> if that's on the presidential level, you have a lot of people running for senate. a lot of people running for congress, right, governors. so many gop strategists had argued that abortion is a nuanced issue and that there could be a middle ground. even that middle ground approach that was pushed by virginia governor glenn youngkin did not farewell with voters. >> yeah. >> and yet, i just want tolay with the republicanresint of e ohio senate said ofast night's result. this isn't the end. it is really just the beginning of a revolving door of ballot campaigns to repeal or replace issue one. so do you think there is a middle ground, or have voters said, look, whatever my personal believes are, by and large, people should be able to make their own choices. >> there's a lot to be said for that. to some degree, look, people who feel strongly about that issue, particularly those who are the pro lifers, they're going to have to come to the reality that in some sense, first of all, people don't want very severe restrictions, and secondly, there's a sense of let them decide for themselves. let them figure this out. for the republicans in the senate to think they can put more issues on the ballot and change this, i don't think so. in virginia, however, i think that was a little different situation because the democrats, the people who were the pro choicers had a reasonable position on that. and youngkin was running to shorten it, and the message was they're going get rid of that and make it severely restrictive. remember, all of those races in the senate and the house for delegate and state senate, they turn on other things. there's no question that in that state, abortion did matter, and it worked against the republicans. >> we've only got about 30 seconds left, but you mentioned governor beshear, is he more a model of someone you think who may be able to not just win in a red state but maybe somebody who could look very good in a way that some people thought before yesterday, and maybe that's an exaggeration, too, glenn youngkin could have a very bright future maybe as a presidential candidate? >> well, i think beshear will be a candidate for president someday and he comes across as so likable and reasonable. he's not extreme on one side or the other. one other message, chris, for democrats that think, now, that joe biden is going to be okay because of the issue of abortion, they're whistling past a graveyard. they better wake up. people are looking at him right now, you see the polls, are we confident that he can improve this economy, are we confident in who he is, he's going to have to address that. he's going to have to deal with that. at the end of the date in a presidential election, it always gets down to the issue of my pocketbook, and abortion is not going to save them on a presidential race. and so i think they got to look and be serious and be sober about the fact that this economy needs to improve and joe biden's got to be more animated. >> former governor john kasich, always good to see you. thank you. >> thanks, chris. i want to get back to the courthouse in new york because just a few minutes ago, ivanka trump walked in to resume her testimony at the family business civil fraud trial. i want to get back to catherine christian. this is interesting, there was a debate whether they should be able to introduce an e-mail between ivanka trump and her husband, jared kushner. in the end, the judge said yes. what else can you tell us? >> it didn't apply. but two, some of it was copied. once you have a third party into the conversation, there is no longer confidentiality, so there's privilege that applies. so the e-mail comes in. and the e-mail, you know, from a reporting we have, she was asked does this refresh your recollection as to conversations that occurred about loans and deutsche bank, and you specifically saying, you know, we have to talk about these general accounting principles, and her response was, you know, i don't know. you would have to ask the person who sent the e-mail. because the e-mail was not sent to her. it was sent from someone in the company to allen weisselberg who was now the convicted felon, chief financial officer of the trump organization. >> does this say anything about the use of spousal privilege or it only applies to this one case? >> for these particular facts. so the rule is, if a husband and a wife are having conversations and there's no one else present, that is a privilege. you cannot, you know, pierce that privilege. however, they used work e-mail, and work e-mail is not your personal property. work e-mail, you know, your employer in this case would have to be able to give it over. it would be different if it was their own personal gmail or aol account. >> if you had to give a big picture, how do you rate her testimony so far and how it fits into the overall case? >> it's helpful for the ag, she was very different, obviously, than her brothers, poised, respectful, and thoughtful. and didn't shoot from the hip. but it was very helpful for the ag. that's why the ag's lawyers called her. >> catherine christian, always good to see you. thank you so much. do big victories for democrats put wind in president joe biden's reelection sales, the take aways for 2024 from 2023, next. 4 from 2023, next help sharpen your skills, you can stay on top of the market from wherever you are. e*trade from morgan stanley. power e*trade's easy-to-use tools make complex trading less complicated. custom scans help you find new trading opportunities, while an earnings tool helps you plan your trades and stay on top of the market. e*trade from morgan stanley. right now get a free footlong at subway. like the new deli heroes. buy one footlong in the app, get one free. it's a pretty big deal. kinda like me. order in the subway app today. las vegas grand prix choose t-mobile for business for 5g solutions. because t-mobile is helping power operations and experiences for hundreds of thousands of fans with reliable 5g connectivity. now's the time to accelerate your business. i have moderate to severe crohn's disease. now, there's skyrizi. ♪ things are looking up, i've got symptom relief. ♪ ♪ control of my crohn's means everything to me. ♪ ♪ control is everything to me. ♪ feel significant symptom relief at 4 weeks with skyrizi, including less abdominal pain and fewer bowel movements. skyrizi is the first il-23 inhibitor that can deliver remission and visibly improve damage of the intestinal lining. and the majority of people experienced long-lasting remission at one year. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine or plan to. liver problems may occur in crohn's disease. ♪ now's the time to ask your gastroenterologist how you can take control of your crohn's with skyrizi. ♪ ♪ control is everything to me. ♪ ♪ learn how abbvie could help you save. still living with odors? 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i'm thinking about, i don't know if you had a chance to hear john kasich who said in the end, it's the economy, stupid? >> i mean, i think the thing that kind of we all have to realize that we're seeing both show up in the polling that is giving us one set of evidence and also the voting that's giving us another set of evidence, those things are in constant conflict as we move forward and into the election is that we have a volatile electorate that we haven't seen in a very long time. abortion changed the game for both the democrats and republicans. and so it has been more salient than really any issue that we've seen in a very very long time, if ever in modern politics. and especially in modern presidential politics. it's gone through a year and a half of special elections, midterms, referendums, that's one thing. the governor talked about portion kind of not being a pocketbook issue. that's not the way that voters are approaching it when you actually speak to them. it's not the way that democrats are approaching explaining this issue. they are talking about it as a family planning, and as a pocketbook issue. that's one thing, and also, we saw that, you know, if it's not the messaging for democrats, right, if their issue doesn't seem to be that their message isn't working, the possibility is that it's the messenger, right, that president biden is the one that voters seem to have an issue with or at least the ones we're seeing them have an issue with when it comes to polling. the republicans in kentucky tried to tie joe biden to the governor who won reelection there over and over again, and he won. that gives us more that's in conflict with these narratives, and i think we have to just kind of accept journalists, politicians, the people that work on this, that the electorate is all over the place on these issues, and we have to be careful reading too much of anything as we move forward to the election. >> yeah, i think any one thing, look, president biden has made some strong arguments, backedp by facts about his accomplishments. but as michelle coddleris in the "new york times," when americans a feeling pessimistic, the president gets blamed. the degreeo ich mr. biden's policies have helped or hurt does not much matter, especially on the economy, he owns it. and here's the thing, you can't argue with voters' feelings. how do you argue with voters' feelings? and can a person who is personally unpopular win them over with the right policies? i mean, there is this overriding problem for this president that people see him as old and too old to be president. >> yeah, that's exactly right, and the concept of the economy and talking about those accomplishments, that's something this administration has done for a very long time, and they have admitted to this in the past, to me and other reporters that they have done a bad job at selling accomplishments to tamper down feelings. democrats say they are nerds, they love facts, and figures and charts when they're talking about things, and you also have to very much keep in mind how folks are feeling and not just looking at the numbers but looking at the numbers coming in on their paychecks and that more importantly, the numbers going out of their bank account. when you talk to democrats, talk to the white house, don't work in the white house, they say the concept of bidenomics needs to be thrown away, and talk about the kind of table issues, right, the different types of investments, talking about the type of health care provisions that this administration has been able to move forward. but at the end of the day, if people don't feel it, it's hardly going to matter. however, if he's against donald trump, then a lot of other feelings may go to the wayside, depending on how voters feel about donald trump, more confusing evidence to dig through. >> eugene daniels, another year to dig through it. i'm sure i'll see you soon. panda diplomacy, how a change in one of the biggest attractions at the zoo has become a symbol of huge diplomatic challenges. ic challe. there's challenges, and i love overcoming challenges. ♪ when better money habits® content first started coming out, it expanded what i could do for special olympics athletes with developmental needs. thousands of bank of america employees like scott spend countless hours volunteering to teach people how to reach their financial goals. it felt good. it felt like i could take on the whole world. hi. my name is kim and i am 41 years old. i've been given the opportunity to work from home, so that means lots of video calls. and i definitely see opporthose deeper lines. home, i'm still kim and i got botox® cosmetic. i wanted to keep the expressions that i would normally have, you know, you're on camera and the only person they can look at is you. i was really happy with the results. i look like me just with fewer lines. botox® cosmetic is fda approved to temporarily make frown lines, crow's feet, and forehead lines look better. the effects of botox® cosmetic may spread hours to weeks after injection, causing serious symptoms. alert your doctor right away as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems, or muscle weakness may be a sign of a life-threatening condition. do not receive botox® cosmetic if you have a skin infection. side effects may include allergic reactions, injection site pain, headache, eyebrow, eyelid drooping and eyelid swelling. tell your doctor about your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions, and medications, including botulinum toxins, as these may increase the risk of serious side effects. see for yourself at botoxcosmetic.com. 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[ting] ♪♪ live in the moment. ask your doctor about otezla. a couple of hours ago, the u.s. lost some key albeit furry, international diplomats. three giant pandas left their long time home at the national zoo for a return trip to china. the bears' impact he put nly by a foreign ambassador years ago, many people don't realize it, there are two chinese ambassadors in washington, me and the panda cub at the national zoo. now, china's panda relocation deal with america has expired. at a moment of diplomatic tension between the two nations. nbc's tom costello is reporting from d.c. tom. >> reporter: they started moving them out in crates this morning, first, the female, then the male, and then they had the cub moving out. the cub is now three years old, but now on their way on a big 777 plane headed back to china, as this five-day program of pandas in washington at the national zoo comes to an end. >> i think pandemonium is going to break out right here at the zoo. >> it was 1972 when pandas first arrived after president nixon's historic trip to china, a diplomatic, and panda conservation breakthrough. since then, zoo visitors have met eight pandas, including four cubs born in d.c. for years, they have been getting used to their travel crates. their return, part of an agreement signed back in 2000, though it does come amid heightened tension between the u.s. and china. but for the zoo staff, which just held an emotional nine-day farewell celebration dubbed panda palooza, this is the morning they have long dreaded. >> we spent so much time with the pandas, holidays, and every day we're here. it's heartbreaking to not have them here. >> reporter: the national zoo insists this is not the result of political tension that they're going back. in fact, they are continuing their dialogue with the chinese, hoping that they will continue a panda exchange