the source tonight, a fiery president biden says he's not going anywhere. as the new york times editorial board is calling on him to drop out of the race for the good of the country and the fallout tonight from donald trump's avalanche of lies last night firehose of false. so it's really aimed directly at. now, we've learned more than 50 million viewers. i'm kaitlin collins, and this is the source even at this. late hour tonight, president biden and his campaign are still scrambling, like they never have before. pull off what could be a mission impossible on ringing the alarm bells that are sounding within his own party. this after the president and the presumptive nominees disastrous performance in front of 50 million viewers last night, right here on cnn. if you're still processing what happened and what you saw, trust me so are we and president biden today was out on the campaign trail attempting to tamp down the panic among democrats i know i'm not a young man. >> i don't walk as easy as i used to. i don't speak as smoothly that i used to i don't do bad debate is well, as i used to what i know what i do know. i know how to tell the truth i know millions of americans know when you get knocked down, you get back i gave him my words, the biden i would not be running again if i didn't believe with all my heart and soul, i can do this job okay. >> well, that was held 10,000 decibels louder and clearer than what we all watched in heard for 90 minutes on stage, last night. >> but at that rally in north carolina today, i should note the president had a teleprompter. he was energized by that adoring crowd of supporters that you could hear in the background. it took place in the middle of the afternoon one. point during that speech by did basically acknowledged that he blew the debate last night, which i should note. but those ratings could be one of the most-watched events of this entire 2024 campaign. now, biden is promising voters. he has four more years in him to do this job but it is still an open question tonight of whether those assurances that we are hearing from him are going to be enough for those in his own party who floating the idea of whether or not he should be replaced on the ticket. that includes tonight, the new york times editorial board with this headline just publishing a short time ago to serve his country president biden should leave the race we're gonna talk more about that editorial board and what they're writing. they're what their argument is in a moment. but i should note on the other side of all of this, president biden does have quite a powerful ally who is coming to his defense. does former running mate on the presidential ticket, former president obama, who i should note as we talked about on the show last week his face, his own crisis of confidence on the debate stage. and he said today, quote, bad debate nights happen. trust me, i know. but this election is still a choice between someone who has fought for ordinary folks his entire life in someone who only cares about himself of course, the man that president obama is referencing there is the one who is sharing the stage with president biden last night, former president donald trump, who had this to say out on the campaign trail today. >> did anybody last night watch? i thing called the debate that was a big one. joe biden's problem is not as age, it's not as anything really. it's got no problem. other than it's his competence he is grossly incompetent. they keep saying i know people that are much older than him that are doing unbelievable things my source tonight knows the conversations that are happening inside biden's inner circle. >> mitch landrieu is the national co-chair of president biden's reelection campaign and mitch, it's great to have you here tonight. just first on this new york times editorial board, the argument yeah let's thank you for being here. they're calling for president biden to step aside and their basis for this is they're saying the last night he struggled to explain what you'd accomplished in a second term, he struggled to respond to mr. trump's provocations. he struggled to hold him accountable for his lies, his failures, his chilling plans more than once he struggled to make it to the end of a sentence mitch, i just it's a question everyone had. i think what happened last night? >> well first of all, the president and politely declines in new york times offer to stand down. he's going to stay in this race and he's going to win president biden today. you just showed a great clip of him that's the joe biden that i know. that's the joe biden then i'll worked with for two years in the white house as we rebuilt the country and build 15 million jobs and created the lowest unemployment rate. i think president obama says it well doors kearns goodwin said it before. people have bad night's. that's the closest you're going to get to joe biden admitting that he had a bad night these things happened in campaigns. and i think everybody who watched that debate last night kinda wandered li, you why, did he show up that way? but it has happened before and it will happen again. the most disappointing thing to me though last night was not joe biden's performance. it was a fact that nobody fact check donald trump. and now that we've had a couple of hours to think about what he did. we now know factually, and this is from your network that almost everything he said was a lie, literally everything was a lie except when he told the truth about doubling down on all the awful things he did when he was president the united states. and that he promised to do again. and so you saw chaos you, saw the real donald trump. he's going to double down on it and the country has got to have a choice. i would take joe biden's bad debate day against four years of another donald trump presidency. any day, anytime any place. >> we did in fact check donald trump last night we had daniel dale lawn. i talked about it as soon as we get out of the debate, of course, he was lying about january 6, many other things. and we're going to talk about that more in a moment. but biden is the candidate that you're working for. and today you're defending him. i mean, he was reading off a teleprompter during that rally today, he'd go off prompter for a bit of that, but he was reading off a teleprompter and last like 50 million people were watching, 50 million people were not watching that speech in north carolina lineup today. and so i just the question is, can president biden recover from that? we'll first of all, i think i think you're going to hear today and i don't think that you can really kind of put lipstick on this pig the president had a tough time last night, he admitted that today, bad bad debates happen from time to time. >> the president has a record to stand on its own good thing that they're doing while in the debate is not the same thing as governing a country. and we actually have two records and the receipts of two presidents that have served for years. donald trump was cataclysmic for this country after the pandemic, donald trump did an awful job, donald jump participated in an insurrection. donald trump lost 2.5 million jobs jobs we have 40 of 44 people that worked for donald trump that a begging us not to put him back in the oval office again, he has now, as you know, been convicted of 34 felonies. and of course he's got all these other legal troubles. so i'm not what i meant to say about not checking, doing. it was during the debate, after the debate. and now that we've had time to look at it, i think people have now begun to say wow. if you compare these two guys records and joe biden, success, i'd rather have joe biden then have donald trump and the president is going to have to go out there and prove it like he did today. and i think you will agree with me his presentation today was energetic, it was strong, it was forceful, it was at times humble, and it was at times leaning forward and biden than i know. and the one that i've worked with was it 15 minutes speech to be fair? also, the teleprompter compared to 90 minutes with no notes and no prompter last night. and i think i'm mentioned just on the overall and the point you're talking about the style of that, but that is something that people remember in debates president nixon would, would like to point that out, right? that that was an, obviously an issue for him that cost him dearly. but on the argument that you just made, why could it president biden or why didn't he articulate that last night in his closing argument? he didn't mention abortion. he did it mention donald trump's fiction. he didn't mention the indictments against him. he didn't mention january 6. why didn't he mentioned that in his closing arguments, right? he he he was because he wants the ball last night. that's the only answer that you can have. but well, whether you do well on a debate has nothing to do with how well you govern the country. that's when you look at the receipts. and there are receives that both of these presidents have one guy as the president said, is like a walking crime syndicate. the other guy gets up everyday work i can offer the american people and is delivered more than most presidents in the history of the country. and the question is which one of these men is going to take america into the future because one of them wants to go forward. that's joe biden and the other one wants to go backwards. that's donald trump. >> you talk a lot about what's at stake in this election. we hear it from democrats all the time. we hear from president biden saying he believes he's the only person best equipped to be donald trump because he's the only one who's ever done it before. but if all of that is really it stake based on what you saw last time, based on what voters more importantly saw last night, do you still think that president biden can beat former president trump and erase absolutely. >> because because whether you do well in a bait does not have anything to do with how well you govern the country how well you govern the country has judged by how well you have done. we have not had a president in the last 40 years. yes, i just created 15.5 million jobs and created an economy the way that we have, has built 57,000 projects, rebuilding the infrastructure. the ballot would go and vote. they're gonna be also thinking of what they saw on that debate. i mean, you have to make the argument you're making, but you also have to think of how voters are perceiving this i don't know how many times i can say to you that the president did a poor job, but this race has, for months from being over and there's another bag to come and there are a whole bunch of rallies and there are a whole bunch of water still to go under this bridge. >> you asked me if i had confidence in joe biden and i have 100% confidence in joe biden. and by the way, it'll be his decision in his decision alone, whether he's going to tell you and i think he answered that question for the public today in north carolina is there any conversation about him not continuing? no. >> it's a you're 100% confident he will be the democratic nominee on that ticket come november, as far as i know today. >> and based on everything that i have seen and heard and people i talk to you, i don't have any reason to believe that he will not be if. he did decide to drop out, who whose counsels he is he taking on that obviously is a very close inner circle. is that the first lady is his sister. what does that look like for voters? >> well, first of all, president biden, as you know, has been an office for a very, very long time. and he's got a close set of family friends. they're the ones that he counsels with, but at the end of the day, he's the one that makes the decision because the buck stops with him. he said last night, i may not be a good debate, but i know the difference between right and wrong. i know how to get things done, and i know what the future of the country has no, by the way, he made the point that donald trump's spent a good portion of his time last night just dogging out america and making people think america was on her back leg. she's not the best is yet to come and we have a great future in a great opportunity as the president said, as he ended his speech today, he's never been more optimistic about the future of this country. >> don't worry, we're going to talk about donald trump's performance in that debate is, oh, mitch landrieu. thank you for coming and joining us tonight. thank you for your time. thanks. katelyn, can't wait to hear it. thanks so much. bye bye. >> and i've got an all-star political sources here tonight, we will be talking about everything, but i want to start with two democrats who have worked with and for president biden and david rohde, when you see you here, what so endrew, saying and response that he is politely declining the nadh, the push from the new york times editorial board that he should step aside they're saying for the sake of the country that he's been a good president, they're not arguing that he hasn't, but they're saying that for the sake of the country, it's time for him to step aside. >> yeah. but there's a difference between being an editorial suite and being in the real-world of politics. there's a lot of complicated steps between here and there. and what democrats have to consider is what is a greater risk? there's no doubt i think the president is behind in this race. and it's going to be a struggle for them to win but the question is can you nominate a candidate without a primary in a diverse party between now and august by some sort of consensual process. and then can you take someone who's never been involved in a national campaign at that level and put all the pressure of the world on them. there's risk in that too. and i think that has to be considered. yeah, i think lbj would note that bit, but i can you were very blunt and your assessment and i you worked for president biden when i was covering president biden, you were the communications director. >> obviously, you know him very well. you would have very blunt assessment of his performance last night. and when we're talking about the first lady, obviously, she's deeply influential on president biden. they're a fundraiser, truly a block away from where we are right now. and she just told the crowd there and i'm quoting the first lady now. and you know, after last night's debate, he said, you know, jill, i don't know what happened. i didn't feel that great and jill says that she responded, look, joe, we are not going to let 90 minutes define the four years that you've been president. but it's not necessarily about them defining it. it's about voters and how they define it. yeah, and i think they're going to see him out on the campaign trail. they saw him today. they're going to see him over the next four months. this race, it was last night was a significant moment. it was an important moment. it was not a defining moment in the sense that that is all voters are going to take in about joe biden for the next four months. it's also not all they're gonna take in about donald trump for the next four months, who was also out today. don't doubling down on some of the things he said yesterday about you're not disavowing january 6 and a lot of things that we know were really off putting to swing voters. and were problems for him in the debate yesterday. so there is a lot of campaign left. i would also say just to the new york times endorsement, i cannot think of anything that would make joe biden less inclined to drop out of this race than the new york times editorial billboard telling him he should, if you go back to 2019 they were dismissive. they were jati they said there was no way that he could be the nominee they in a stroke of very interesting political wisdom jointly endorsed amy klobuchar and elizabeth warren for president they are divorced from the reality of politics. they don't understand joe biden and there's nothing that would that's fair. i don't think a lot of voters are checking to see what it says, but it did come a lot of op-eds today. tom friedman, who adores president by, knew it was saying he was weeping at that performance last night, scott, what did you make of what mr. landrieu had to say about about their defensive biden. >> well, he's peace plan, a bad hand today. and he did about the best he could given their performance that we saw last night. but the problem is, it's not just about the 90 minutes what the american people saw and what they're going to extrapolate is that's basically how it is every day. but that's what they're going to take away from it. they're not going to remember much about the policy exchanges they're just going to think, does this guy look like somebody who could go in and out of the office every day for the next four years, maybe for the next seven months. that's it. that's the bottom line. and a comparison of records, a comparison of who told more lives it's just it's not going to fly. can i just say one thing first of all, i really i love mitch landrieu. i think he's a great guy. he was a great mayor, is great politician and he do, he did an admirable job there. but what he said and what the first lady said it goes to something that bothered me about the debate last night elections are not about the evaluation of what you did the last four years there, about what you're gonna do the next four years and what the other guy is going to do in the next four years. and so that people can get some sense of what's in it for them. in this decision and that's what that's another thing that the president didn't do last night. we were told that he was going to do that and he didn't really bring that to the debate. he became a lot more defensive than i think he should. >> and you are warning about that. but when you're looking at this just from a historical perspective, i mean watching that last night we heard a lot of people saying today we'll ever incumbent president as a bad first debate. i mean, this takes the cake for modern history, probably, i mean obama saying, yeah, i know what it, how it feels. it wasn't quite this level. prison obama was finishing his sentences and the debate he was, but we also have a presidential candidate who had alzheimer's and had dementia and was on a debate stage in 1980 at four. and we're his age was a constant, right? a constant reiteration of is he fit can he be president, right? and that's ronald reagan. so the person that trump like to bring up a lot last night, in fact, had the same age questions that i thank biden is running up against the difference. however, is that the age problem in the past has been one that i think both the candidates have addressed head-on. reagan. does this and immediately and says, you know, it's my it's my experience. and it's your age, your young age that differentiates me from mondale we have it with somebody like lbj president lbj who takes himself out of the running because of his health and consideration. the differences though it were it's always been a back-burner issue. it is now front and center in a way that we cannot ignore. and in a way that i think obscure actually real damage in obscuring what is going on with donald trump in the message that donald the very alarming message that donald trump put out less light and reagan's first debate was a disaster, something that nancy reagan acknowledged after that, i want to talk a lot more about this and just what the implications of this are, what you're hearing from democrats as well? okay because of course what matters most here's what the voters think, especially swing-state voters. well, we went and talk to some of them today, today, including its grand joe's hometown crowd and whether we're not there still behind him in pennsylvania, hear from them yourself and also not to be buried by all of the biden drama donald trump had a layer of lies last night at the debate. we're at a time talk about all of them with anthony scaramucci tonight get back. i voted buttons. >> i every meal kit why no donkeys or elephants scandals and alice says cell self-ruling. it's like you're generation has evolved past traditional political symbols. >> and there's trim for everyone, kind of like my podcast on cnn. yeah. plus chins, puke, rainbows, white, taken compared with other choose one verb recto chu protects from fleas and ticks for 12 weeks. >> nearly three times longer. use with caution in dogs with a history of seizures or neurological disorders, protection that last longer. bravo bravo. >> the future is not just going to happen, you have to make it. and if you want a successful business, all it takes is an idea and now becomes a future where you grew at dream into a reality the all new godaddy arrow put your business online and minutes with the 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voters are bristling after that debate that we all saw highlighted choice that a lot of them frankly, do not want this november. cnn's daniel freeman, when two president biden's hometown of scranton, pennsylvania to talk to voters in the crucial swing state at zoo most cafe in scranton, pennsylvania, the coffee flowed friday morning and so did the post debate emotions. >> it was painful to watch i feel like the candidates were two kids. do you can it out in preschool? i feel disoriented. that's the word that i've been trying to i'm robin burnt is the owner of the cafe just blocks away from where president biden grew up. >> we allow and biden were screened one in we want him to be successful and we want to feel that connection like we have fell over the last four years. and independent, she voted for biden in 2020, but his now left hoping biden gets a second chance to prove he can do the job. >> they just don't think that that was really well represented i'd like him have an opportunity to give it another go. >> well, he stumbled. i don't think it was his best night really. and you have to be truthful about that. >> as long democrat done a devito was disappointed by biden's performance, but still said she wouldn't vote for former president trump. >> that debate did not spark any concerns in joe biden and president biden and his ability to then the next four years leading our country. >> but lexi to woolf disagrees. >> i don't know what four more years would look like for somebody who's already at that point, the wolf voted for biden in 2020, but now fears he doesn't have what it takes for the job. did you have concerns about biden's capacity in your words, before last night? >> yeah. yeah. but i think last night was worse. here in typically blue lacquer juan county, biden won by fewer than 10,000 votes in 2020. the margins here crucial as biden won pennsylvania by about 80,000 votes, i was thrilled. i couldn't have been happier republican activists and avid trump supporter robin medea's loved the debate thinks trump's performance will galvanize the former president's base. >> it certainly will help biden was in such deplorable condition that it certainly will help mike men zeno turned off the debate early. >> i think president trump performed like president trump there's a lot of, let's say inaccuracies and details broad statements but the registered democrat who voted third party in 2020 said biden did not win him over either did the debate alleviate any concerns that you might have had about his age? no no, they'd be more confirmed. my concerns that alleviated danny freeman, cnn, scranton, pennsylvania quite notable to hear from those voters and president biden, hometown and kate hearing from that last schroeder, they're not only did it not alleviate the concerns about about biden's age and capability underline this italicize them and put them in bold font for voters who may be middle the road and don't know who the support in november for some of them did for some of them, you heard they had those concerns coming in and so i think we got to remember that a lot of negatives for both of these candidates are baked in for a lot of these voters. >> and so over the course of the next four months, they're going to do get out out on who can claim the sliver of those double haters who don't like both candidates to decide this election. but i think also, look present, biden didn't have a great debate last night, no bones about it, but i think in the discussion over the 24 hours, 36 hours on those nelson 24, i guess since the debate, we also lost sight of the fact in the conversation that donald trump has enormous vulnerabilities and their voters who say that his tone last night was unacceptable. obviously, the substance of what he said about not accepting the outcome of the election, about defending the january 6, the people who, who, who committed january 6 those are things that don't win him over with the voters that he needs. and that's been lost a little bit in this 24 hours where everyone has been focused on joe biden that is going to re-emerge over the next four months as this campaign plays out. but david oxide mitch landrieu was talking about how great president biden was today, north carolina, obviously, as we noted, the clare differences in it. but just to look at them side-by-side is also quite remarkable. look at this thank you sure that we're able to make every single solitary person eligible for what i've been able to do with the covid excuse me, with i'm dealing with everything we have to do with look if we finally beat medicare when you get knocked down, you get back the checker are kind of in the depths of pandemic where it is today the strongest economy in the world i mean, it's completely it's like nine de to see the differences there. >> it is you know, when i saw that today reminded me of the 2012 the first debate for president obama, which didn't go well and one of the things that we stressed was we had an event schedule the next day you gotta be pumped, you gotta be pumped and show life and so on. so this looks very familiar to me, but it is we didn't have that problem. we didn't have he was 50-years-old. the problem wasn't he with it he was just buried in details. but this is different because it's very hard to mean they were different circumstances, but it's hard to recognize the guy we saw today in the guy we saw last night last night was pretty consequential night. >> what i saw today and north carolina is a guy who's good for 15 minutes a day if you tell them exactly what to say that's not what people are looking for in the president of the united states right now, there are real problems. no one by the way, most people don't believe we have the strongest economy in the world. even that message is off for most voters who are hurting badly and blamed his policies for it the next president has to be strong. that's what people believe. and if you believe the president's only good for 15 minutes off of a teleprompter. they'll never going to interpret that as strength no matter how many times he does, i look i agree on the strength versus weakness that's the sort of that is the pivot line in this campaign right now. >> but i do believe that trump showed the qualities last night that reminded people why they didn't like them in the first place. and so, yes, they may acknowledge he is strong, but the point that we thought the president was going to drive that presumably he will drive for the duration of the campaign is who is fighting for? is he fighting for years if fighting for himself? and there is a predisposition to believe that trump fights forums and on that the fever dreams from those who are the most panic tour saying you know, biden has to drop out. >> we have to have a new candidate on the ticket. obviously, you talked to how complicated that is there's no guarantee of success. i mean, lyndon johnson and it cost his party the election and he did it earlier than president biden would be doing it. so the thing right now that i think is most important is for the democratic party to come together around messaging and around a candidate, whether that be joe biden or whether it be someone now let's have joe biden decides that he's going to step down and allow someone to take the place. the unity, the solidarity. that is what matters the most. because part of what we're trying to tap into is not necessarily the swing voters or things like that, but it's about who it's about manifesting turnout who can generate the highest level of turnout, who can get these people that who revote likely voters in the past, who can get them to the stage. and i think what we've seen in the past 1968, 19, 1984, these various years is that when the enthusiasm isn't there particularly united around a candidate? that's when democrats lose, which johnson's vice president was the candidate and 68 and that was a problem for him because he carried some of the burdens of lyndon johnson. >> but that legacy, yeah, i don't think anyone everyone feels bad for the voters at this point, leah, great to have you, everyone else is going to stick around because we are going to talk about donald trump and what he said today out on the campaign trail declaring victory after he lied deflected, and simply did not answer a lot of the questions that were asked to them to him, at least not directly. we're going to speak with his former communications director, anthony scaramucci about that and more. but after a quick break one of, my favorite supplements is kunal turmeric. turmeric helps with healthy joints and inflammation support and cute all has the number one doctor recommended form of turmeric kunal. the brand i trust she random place like a puppy again, is number twos brand new dog on and less than a year. when people switch their dogs food from kibble to the farmers dog, they often say that it feels like magic. but there's no magic 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crowd and virginia where he continued to push some of the 30 plus lives that he told on stage at that debate last night as we saw, president biden did little to fact check him in real time, allowing trump to peddle these lies and half-truths if we want to call them that. and also pivoting completely, doing a complete one at a time when he was pressed for answers to questions you had no terror at all. during my administration, you had roe v. wade and everybody wanted to get it back to the states. he's willing to, as we say, rip the baby out of the womb in the ninth month and kill the baby. he gets paid by china. he's a manchurian candidate. will you take any action? as president to slow the climate crisis? well, let me just go back to what he said about the police. what do you say to voters who believe that you violated that oath through your actions and inaction on january all right. six and worried that you'll do it again. >> why don't think too many believe that and let me tell you about january 6. on january 6, we had a great border. nobody coming through very few on january 6, we were energy independent. and as nancy pelosi said, it was her responsibility, not mine she said that loud and clear she did not say that. >> and it was not her responsibility as we have said many times, you're on this show meantime, if any scaramucci trump's former white house communications director is here with us tonight, who is also the author of the new book from wall street to the white house back at and obviously you, the headline coming out of this anthony, was that biden did his performance did overshadow what what trump just did. their hizon performance last night. i mean, it doesn't take away from the fact that he did lie. he downplayed january next he refused three times to accept the 2024 election results without his conditions that he attached to them. what did you make of trump's performance last night? >> well, he told a lie every 100 seconds, if you like, factored in everything, but the problem with trump's performance was the split screen and so whoever prepped president biden didn't explain to him that he had to be alert and look right into the barrel of that camera and he looked very distracted. he looked a little off and so no matter what trump was saying, i think most people were focused on the physical features of what was going on on the other side of the split screen. so yeah, look, trump is alive. look, trump's brand is that he's going to tell a lie. every 100 seconds in my book, we counted 30,450 lives. that's right out of the the washington post pinocchio alerts over four years. so he's going to lie. i mean, the question now is joe biden is staying in the race. i get that. so now, what is the going to be the positioning of joe biden? and how are we going to prove through the american public joe biden's up for this job over the next 450 million people watched last night. and if you're a voter who does it watch trump's rallies like we do closely, or constantly cover him. i mean, you don't know what's ally and what's truth or what's an exaggeration. and so you may be walking that and thinking, okay, well, i guess this is actually what happened on january 6. the officers did sherwin the rioters, which obviously also is not true well, kaitlan, listen, remember, this is about image. >> this is not necessarily about substance. this is a popularity contest. it's not a hiring decision for the american people if the call it the way it is but my message to the biden campaign is donald trump on october the seventh, 2016, was under the gun. that was the night of the access hollywood tape release. he had had an okay. first debate birdie girded himself for that second debate. i think the message here is to be relentless and to get on the offense as quickly as possible. he did a good job today, but he's got to build on that over the next coming weeks to let the american people know that he can do this job. you're pointing out that 48 million people saw him having a hard time putting sentences together, saw him having a hard time rebutting. and then the last thing which was bothered me is the he couldn't complete the two minutes j kept saying to him, hey, you got at more seconds. here, referee is emanating to say, yeah, that president biden on that, and obviously you would see trump, whose mic was you did sitting there and its got jennings when you looked at that and you saw how trump was handling this in he didn't exactly cover himself in glory either last night, if you are watching it just from his perspective, i mean, there are counting. is it a win? but because they're grading it on a curve, essentially because of how president biden did. i mean, what's a when you get a policy that trump announced last night name, he's not the president he's the challenges president. i know. and he's running just like he wasn't 2016 against the de facto and come at this time, it's the real incumbent that's the beauty of being the challenger. you don't have to solve all the world's problems today. you just have to convince the american people that the incumbent is doing a bad job and they should fire him and higher, you know, i think they've decided to fire biden. it's obvious. have they quite decided to rehire trump yet close, but maybe not yet, and he still has to close that deal. the problem with this debate is not donald trump, no one's going to remember a thing he said, they'll only remember what they saw of joe, but, you know, i was i was privy to some dial groups that went on last night. what was trusting was on the substance of things economic policy, health care on abortion rights on a whole range of things. biden did much better than trump. i mean, he people agreed with biden's point of view. trump did very poorly any particularly poorly when he with his nasty sides, he did particularly poorly when he claimed things that were patently untrue that everyone knows was this notion that he was playing the peacemaker role on january 6, was laughable. people understood that. so i think people paid more attention, scott than you think i agree and it does still matter. it candidates lie. it does. i know we're in the trump era where the received wisdom that it doesn't matter if the person who's running the present united states just openly lives. but i think as david said, we saw from some of the immediate data last night, that's not true. and i think that's going to continue to be a problem for trump for the next seven months. i mean joe biden never lie he did not he absolutely does not. >> donald trump willfully willfully. >> joe biden never lie presents. >> he willfully goes out and misrepresents things and is an intentionally with no shame whatsoever and people don't want to see that and their leadership but at least we got to hear two people who want nuclear codes talk about their golf handicaps and scaramucci, kate bedingfield, david axelrod, scott jennings. great to have all of you breaking down what so many people are still trying to process from last night, i should note on the legal front it is a nail-biting weekend for donald trump for the special counsel, jack smith. that's what this is. supreme court is finally going to reveal its decision on presidential immunity on monday. but also the january 6 rioter ruling that came in today. how that could also impact trump's case in washington once retired, marcus decided, i will never again work for another man or woman i abandoned my corporate phone plan and i'll get a new who plan with consumers cellular for up to half the cost, less coburn when freedom calls, we're here to answer. if you have this consider adding this an aarp, medicare supplement insurance plan from unitedhealthcare. medicare supplement plans help by paying some of what medicare does and let you see any doctor any specialist anywhere in the u.s. who accepts medicare patients. so if you have this consider adding this calling unitedhealthcare 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his ongoing legal cases, at least the one that's happening in washington. that's what those are. the 6-3 decision where the justices ruled that the biden justice department overstepped when it filed obstruction charges against some of the january 6 rioters my top legal sources here tonight with me, cnn legal analyst and criminal defense attorney joey jackson, and retired new york state supreme court justice judge joe kahn visor, the judge. first off, what do you think we're going to hear from the supreme court on monday? >> i think it is going to be landmark. i think you're absolutely right. i think this is a very big decision. you do know that both the district court and the court of appeals did not share defendant trump's position with respect to immunity. so he has said, i want the supreme court to look at this and say, i want absolute immunity for any official act that occurred while i was in office. so the question will become, what is an official act and what what are they willing to do? they have options, right? they can send it back to say, what is an official act and go to other factfinder down on the district court again, they can say you don't have absolute immunity or they can say you do have absolute immunity, which judge chutkan in said quite clearly is an added get out of jail free card forever in that really can't be the law. yes, they do split the baby and say, well, you have it for this, but maybe not from that. and it goes back to judge chutkan after this ruling comes out on monday. i mean, how how quickly could that be resolved? i mean, she's known that this is coming. she's looked at what's an official act and what's not yeah, not quickly at all is the answer, caitlin? right. and here's why. so you have to look at this. i think in the context of not just trump, but in the context of a universe of presidents to come later. it is indeed a decision for the ages. and so when you look at it, i tell you what i'm looking for. i'm looking for number one, us. laura is talk about i'll bright-line rules. what does that mean? do they set a specific identifiable standard immunity? no immunity period. and that seems to be with chuck and has done right at the district court level, and it seems to be what the court of appeals has done to date, right. set of rules saying you have them the second thing caitlin is really do you come up with some standard of tests and if you do, how do you police that? it becomes a slippery slope. you got to have immunity in some something's not immunity and others which leads to the next thing if you do that it has to be the parsing of official versus unofficial acts. and that means you remanded back to the district court and they may for the findings consistent with that. and so to your question, coming full circle, it's going to take a while if they do that to bring it back to the district level and may consistent findings with respect to this is official. this is not a visual this is not we'll see if they and let's add one more layer of complex occasion on that, which is the january 6 ruling that came down today about the rioters that they couldn't be charged with obstruction and some of these cases, i mean, that could affect what donald trump is charged with. specifically, it seemed to leave the door open for letting the special counsel, jack smith, continue with this charges. but what do you make of it for the writers themselves, judge, because we're already seeing trial courts in washington to reopen some of these cases because maybe they were charged with three felonies and one of them was this. and now the supreme court is saying, well, they can't be charged with that. >> well, a couple of things. one is it's a big decision, but it's not quite as big as perhaps that we think so. some small, small ish percentage a small percentage of these individuals are charged with just that that offense where the i think the prosecutor did a bit of a hail mary pass and said, we want to expand this and the courts are saying no, we're not going to let you do that. yeah, 128 have or were convicted of obstruction or another crime? that's right. but or another one means that will still stand. so it's a good day for someone who was just charged with that obstruction charge. the other ones are going to stay yeah. i don't think as it relates to trump. look, i think prosecutors charged culpable conduct kaitlan in an english. that means if they think they could prove the charge against you, they'll charge that particular charge in terms of the obstruction. i think that in trump's case, i don't think it impacts it. there's a lot of reasons why which we don't have time to talk about bots i just think that it affects the riris case as it relates to donald trump i don't think it has an outcome determinative effect that's an important distinction. we'll see how it plays out. joey jackson, judge joe kahn buys are great to have you both here on a friday night. also, us figure that it's a gut punch for law enforcement defending the capitol on january 6, as trump is now back today, calling for the release of rioters, or as he affectionately refers to them hostages. one of the officers who put his life on the line that day is going to join me with his response next let me introduce you to class 500 the intuitive and easy to use trading app gives you a glimpse into the future of futures trading. >> see a trading opportunity you'll be able to trade it in two clicks once your account is open no matter what kind of trader you are, plus 500 has you covered with a tail? hillard solution? >> so download the app and start trading futures today, trading in futures and options involves the risk of loss and he's not suitable for every investor plus 500. it's trading with a plus life is better with the credit god's on your side. >> rewards, ones available to the view are now accessible to the many credit one bank get cash awards. and liz large one second. >> she can't walk 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trail and again, calling for the release of those who have been charged with crimes. >> the riders on january 6 or as donald trump affectionately refers to them as hostages all just 24 hours after he downplayed what happened on january 6 at the presidential debate. joining me tonight is a man who does not need that de dale boy, because he defended the capitol on january 6, officer daniel hodges. and i should note, officer hodges is still with the metropolitan police department, is speaking in his own capacity here from the source tonight, not on behalf of the department. and officer hodges, it's great to have you back again because this moment last night, the first thing i thought of was the officers who were there that day. and what you must think of what, what donald trump had to say about this last night for people who missed it. and that 90 minutes of debate, i just want to play it exactly what that moment was. again in addition to the speech i made in front of, i believe the largest crowd i've ever spoken to, and i will tell you, nobody ever talks about that. they talk about a relatively small number of people that went to the capitol well and in many cases were ushered in by the police is that how you would phrase it? >> ushered in by the police no, it is not how i would phrase it. >> we fought them at every opportunity we tried to repel them, gave them strong verbal commands telling us to leave and they refused to our defenders defensive tactics were ineffective. they fought through our any anything we threw at them. they broke our police leinz and beat us, use all kinds of weaponry against us until they were able to force their way inside its siri to watch the video, especially a view. and i'm sorry to make you to relive it to show what again, i know it's incredibly painful, but but i think it's important for people to see what actually happened to you because it's caught on tape, and you're screams can be heard. this is what happened to you on that day when the former president four years later is on a debate stage calling those people defending them what goes through your mind it's absolutely incredible yeah, after january 6, i was really hopeful that the gop would finally take the off ramp from this trump colt because they had the perfect opportunity and it seemed like that was what was going to happen. >> but sadly, they've all bint the knee to their master because they're afraid of the political blowback of having integrity so now we have to listen to donald trump tried to whitewash to lie, to shift the blame, do whatever he can to make it so that he doesn't bear any responsibility for the attack, the de when in fact, he bears quite a bit. >> do you worry that? people believe him when he says that it was be blames nancy pelosi, he downplays what he did or did not do that day and there's a lot of people who they don't watch the news ever de, or they're not paying super close attention. does it worry that people believe him? >> oh, i know people believe them because they believe anything he says. they believe him over their religious leaders, over doctors. they believed him in any realm of the, information regardless of whether he has back i spoke to expertise or not. so yeah, there's absolutely people who believe him and it's truly incredible to me that they do because he's just he lives constantly? it's just a firehose of leinz, like we saw last time the debate. it doesn't matter what he's talking about. he just pretends to know what he's talking about and says whatever benefits in the most officer daniel hodges i mean, you can speak to it better than anyone else can. >> so thank you for joining tonight. >> thank you for having me i should note we were just talking with judge jill and joey about that important decision that is coming from the