source tonight's substance and stammered out. >> we have no reporting on the final phase of president biden's preparations as trump world is doubling down on a ridiculous accusation 48, hours away from the historic debate right here on cnn, house speaker mike johnson will join me live. >> plus the polls have just close in the most expensive house primary ever. >> a member of the so-called squad is fighting for his political life. and it's also judgment time for republican lauren boebert, bu for members switch districts when it looked like her congressional career was about to go up in smoke. and i'm brand new reporting breaking here at nine on steve bannon and a notable change and the judge for his upcoming fraud trial i'm kaitlin collins, and this is the source the polls are in a dead heat and the insults or flying expectations are being gamed. and the accusations about getting juiced up on drugs are frankly ridiculous and getting out of hand. that all means that one of the most highly anticipated, anticipated live events and modern american history is set to begin 48 hours from right now the mission for both candidates and a cnn presidential debate is a contrast. and before you start yelling at your screen, yes, these two could not be any more different from one another. >> but what happens on thursday night in both style and substance has the potential to alter the trajectory of this race president biden has spent days locked and intense preparation, surrounded by his closest advisers at camp david and our sources are telling us tonight that full mock debates are underway at the podium under the light he's even watching taped to know exactly what he's going to see when he steps up to that lecture. >> his team shot a video during a walk through of the cnn studio. and as i reported, while covering him at the white house, when biden prepares, he does so incredibly intensively the former president, on the other hand, who is not known for his attention to detail, is talking about how very hard it is to prepare while at the same time insisting. he doesn't need it i think i've been preparing for it for my whole life. if you want to know the jurors and i'm not sure you can lock yourself into a room for two weeks or one week or two days and really learn what you have to know what it will do very well. we've, we've done well in the past and i think we'll do very well. i know the subject matter, but i don't think corey, you could just luck yourself in a room like some people do and think you're going to come out, okay. it doesn't seem to work that way trump says, in his view, instead, debating is more of an attitude than anything else telling the washington examiner, i know what i know. >> it's largely based on common sense a common sense for trump's advisers lately seems to be this need to double down though, on a baseless distraction ahead of thursday night, we know that when it comes to the big events, when it comes to debates, when it comes to state of the union, things of that nature that they're going to have joe biden completely super soldiered up he's going to be ready to go. he has a certain muscle memory that kicks in for having done this for 50 years super soldiered up the biden campaign actually might welcome that comparison to captain america, but drove as co-campaign manager, however, was more to the point on this he's probably going to be filled with a role like you was at the might of the state of the union and so it's just it'll provide a great contrast there's really no more way to fact check that than we already have. >> the more that they say at the more ridiculous it sounds. i leave source tonight is the democratic congressman from maryland and also supporting president biden. no surprise there. and jamie raskin, it's great to have you, congressman, when you look at it thursday night and just how many eyes are going to be watching? joe biden and donald trump on stage. what are you believe is a must-do for president biden well, it's an epic moment obviously, and trump's team is the obviously in desperation trying to rattle the president with all of these ludicrous claims about adderall, unless they're looking for a reason pull out, we know that the 2020 debates were a disaster for donald trump. >> he refused to debate his primary opponents. he refused to take the stand in new york. he refused to come and testify when he was accused of inciting a violent insurrection and was impeached for it. any refused just to come before the january 6 committee. so i think they're extremely nervous over there and that's why they're lashing out at joe biden with all of these concoctions. i think president biden needs to do three things. you need to look to the past and demonstrate that his administration has been a tremendous success. the lowest unemployment rate in more than 50 years. we've lowered inflation more than any of the other countries in the g7. the economy is roaring in the manufacturing sector where more than 900,000 jobs have been added, more than 15 million new jobs. donald trump, of course was one of only two presidents who left office with fewer jobs than when he started him in herbert hoover, which is a pretty exact analogy in terms of what both of those guys did to our economy. but i think that president biden also needs to talk about donald trump and how he is indeed a serious peril to the the future of democracy and freedom in america trump has been running all over the country bragging about the fact that he packed the supreme court with these justices who overthrew roe versus wade. and now they plan to go further and basically make abortion of federal crime everywhere in the country the way they've done it in a heard of the country and get rid of birth control and ivf t2, that's where the mega right wants to go. and then biden needs to talk about everything we really need to be working on once we get rid of the mega threat. >> that's a lot to cover and 90 minutes, but when you mentioned the economy, that is one of the areas that is of the most important to voters. but also we're president biden polls the weakest. and so i wonder how he balances that of getting on stage in this fear that we've heard from some of his advisers that he'll spend too much time defending his record and being defensive about it and not tapping into what we're seeing that voters are feeling and the sentiments about the economy well, president biden doesn't need to defend his records he just needs to articulate his record. >> i mean, i sat there for four years under donald trump, we had infrastructure week, we had infrastructure month. we just never had an infrastructure bill and president biden sent it to us in the first couple of weeks of his administration and we pass that without much help from the republicans. but the democrats unanimously supported at one 1.2 trillion dollar investment in roads, the highways, the bridges, the ports the airport's rural broadband. we did that and look at the inflation reduction act, dramatic reductions in the cost of prescription drugs constituents who are spending five or $600 a month on insulin as diabetics that's capped at $35 a month within the medicare program. and a $2,000 a year out out-of-pocket cap. the democrats did that. the republicans are trying to overturn that. they're campaigning against inflation reduction act right now. so president biden just needs to remind people that the democrats are in the business of delivery bring the goods to the people, and that's what democracy is all about yeah, of course it's a high tech, high bar for thursday night. >> we'll see what that looks like. congressman jamie raskin. thank you for your time tonight. >> you bet. >> i want to bring in maggie haberman, senior political correspondent for the new york times, ashley allison, who is the former national coalitions director for the biden harris 2020 campaign, and also republican strategist. sure. michael singleton, great to have you all here maggie, you heard trump just in the last hour in this interview with corey lewandowski talking about how he's approaching this, how he's approaching his prep. so far has not been doing the same kind of formal prep that we've seen the biden campaign doing. what do you make of how he's approaching this now that we're two days away, he is taking it more seriously than i think he generally likes to acknowledge that he is even admitted in an interview. i think it was with the washington examiner that he had interrupted biden too much, which is something he has said to people around him privately, i was surprised here. they said it publicly about their first debate where biden was widely seen as beating him pretty handily, just by standing there and smiling i don't know what that translates to. once he gets to the debate stage, donald trump, as you said, does not prepare conventionally the way we are used to president's doing it he tends it's to think that people can't inform him of things. his term in office was actually a bit ago and they've been doing some policy refreshers. the question is going to be, i mean, a couple of things. these two men really don't like each other. biden and trump. and so to my mind that creates a huge x-factor when they get on stage because you just don't know, you can do all the preparations in the world as candidates. and then when you get into the arena, it can be very different. number one, number two, i don't you know, you saw trump at a rally the other night saying, should i be nice or should i be very mean? and i suspect he will interrupt less and i suspect he will be mean because i think that is his speed when it comes to being on the attack mean in the sense of of what like attacking hunter biden or just i think that if what i've heard conflicting things about this, i think that inevitably when the question of trump's criminal conviction comes up there is a real chance trump is then going to turn it around about hundred button hunter biden is the son of a president, but he is not running for president. and so that is just a different thing. but trump's folks believe it is a way to get under president biden's skin. and i don't think they would see it as a hands-off moment now, trump is aware that his, his own attacks on hunter biden in that first debate in 2020 humanized president biden basically gave president biden an opportunity to send my son is an addict and he had a struggle that a lot of americans have and trump came off looking incredibly mean and belittling to an issue that a lot of people struggle with. i don't know that we're there. >> now. >> this is just a very different moment until president i didn't i mean, when state of the union, these big events where he does give speeches and typically has done pretty well at them and he spent so much time preparing, i think people really underestimated if you don't actually witnessed it or hear about it and see it, but he does been an incredible amount of time trying to be ready for these big moments. >> it's not just these big moments when i worked for the vice president biden, when i worked for the candidate biden in 2020 20 when he was running for office, when i worked for him on the transition team, we would prep him because he cares about the issues he cares about the people were talking to. we will be doing a table of labor workers and he would want to know their birthday, how many kids they had, how many jobs they've had, were they originally from this town where they not because that is what you want in your leader. you want them to be committed. you wanted them to be locked in, whereas trump is so careless, so fearless. he thinks he can't though these jabs. he thinks he can be listen that it'll it'll make him look like this strong, tough man. but if he goes, if he thinks he takes that approach and goes after hunter biden, i have to tell you that. is that doesn't work in the polling. it didn't work in 2020, and it still won't work now, whether you were addict in 2020 years still at a recovering addict in 2024. and families understand that, and families have compassion that is not a winning strategy for tragedy for donald trump. and i hope joe biden does the prep that he always has done as a candidate and shows up in defenses. rucker. >> sure. michael, what do you expect this to look like? let me look. i think the former president is acutely aware of the magnitude of thursday night. i think he's aware of how electorally close the previous election was in 20 20 august, about less than 100,000 volts across four different states and i think he understands that there are a sliver of voters in the middle who may be on the fence about president biden who voted for him, thought things were going to look differently over the past four years and have made up their minds. i don't know if i want to give him another four years. i'm potentially interested in trump but can trump showcase that he's a statesman, kenny showcase tone, the proper tone that is. and i would say to the point of addiction, i don't think the former president is going to throw that out there unless he feels personally attacked. but i think the american people should also remember the foreign president lost a brother who also suffered from alcoholism in the past. so he's acutely aware of what addiction can do to an individual and also to a family? yeah. can we just have the format though, maggie, because it trump's that's something today that he often is more revealing just when he speaks about this and he seems very concerned about the fact that there's no audience and was talking about how he believes it can really essentially it's going to be a sterile dead room was his quote to the examiner. and he does seem to have concern that you won't be able to see the audience reaction to how he's handling an issue as sensitive. is that one or anything else in every interview? >> every interview, every debate that i have seen him do every live form for him that i have seen him do. he uses the audience as a second character on stage with him and he plays off of it. and so yes, i mean, i'm not surprised to hear him complaining about that. you're absolutely right. i think if he wasn't concerned about that, we wouldn't have had days and days of him and his team essentially trying to work the refs in the lead up to the debate and complaining about fairness over and over again. so yes, trump is somebody who uses an audience to great effect. i don't know what it will look like absent that, but no, it's not a it's not an additive for him by any stretch. >> i think it's a benefit that there isn't an audience to maggie's point, the former president does feed off of that. if i'm an advisor, you have to be potentially concerned about the bombastic name nature of the former president because of an audience. so absent an audience, my presumption would be he'll be a little more toned down. he doesn't have a crowd to potentially react to some of the things that he may say that some may say is a bit outrageous or outlandish is why i think that potentially benefits. >> i've dislike try i can't forget the last eight years and i've yet to see donald trump be in private settings in a public campaign at the reporting out from mar-a-lago or in an interview where he doesn't have a moment where he lashes out, where he doesn't have a moment where he is the true epitome of the nastiness that he asked his crowd whether he wants to be so i you know, perhaps perhaps one could dream that if someone's running for president, they would behave themselves on a debate stage. but the last eight years have not proven that that is who donald trump is. and i don't want to pretend like we're going to see somebody different and that we should then forget those last eight years, even if he does have a well behaved night for television for maggie go i'm sorry. i do i do agree that i think that there is an amnesia factor that we've all talked about with trump i think that the challenge for president biden is going to be to try to make tell viewers why they should care more about that. in anything that trump is saying about things that impact their lives directly trumpist. >> so difficult, correct. i mean, you saw hillary clinton talking about that today and you're yeah. >> i mean, everybody who has debated against him has said exactly that, that it's just incredibly hard that doesn't definitionally make trump a good debater. by the way, we would conventionally describe good debaters, but he is effective at just chewing up whoever is on stage with him so that he ends up winning by default, although he did not win by default in that first one in 20 hillary clinton wrote, just what on this because she said it's nearly impossible to identify what his arguments even our he starts with nonsense and then do grosses into bladder. >> this has gotten only worse than the years since she debited him in 2016. she says it's a waste to try to refute. his arguments. does biden risk? getting dragged into that, but let me know all other reported that i have seen this far, including by our network, is that the that the president plans to go after donald trump and remind the american people on january 6 or the state of democracy, et cetera. and i'm not certain how that sends a message to voters who are worried about the bottom line. >> i have not met a single american out there who have not made up their mind about donald trump, whether they liked the guy or disliked the guy. >> so this idea that you're going to go on into base age if you're biden said, well, he's a terrible person, therefore, i'm better okay with all due respect, mr. president, that's great. and all. but how about the bills and i'm struggling to pay at the end of the month. how about their crappy paycheck that i'm getting sure that jobs are doing great. i appreciate you for that, but i'm still not making enough money those are the things that the average person is dealing with every single day. caitlin and i have yet to see an argument from president biden that he can articulate to say, i deserve another four years because i have done this. >> well, i would i would just say that i don't think donald trump is also given a convincing argument why he deserves four more years either. but i think there are different segments to this audience. there are the people who are going to vote for joe biden and they need to rally them around so that they become the mouthpieces after this debate, it spreading the gospel of joe biden. then there's people who are still undecided. maybe those nikki haley voters, maybe those kaltura voters, and they end joe biden needs to make a convincing narrative then there are people like me who need to be constant, not actually, i don't need to be constantly remind but i am reminded and i get fired up when i remember how terrified and how discuss it i felt under four years of trump. and that is what i am going to do to bring people to the polls in november. >> ashley allison. sure. michael singleton, maggie haberman, we will so what happens on thursday night also right now the results are coming in at this moment for what was the most expensive house primary in american history, perry entin is here where the breakdown and maybe we'll get a few projections tonight. also, speaker house, house speaker mike johnson is going to join me live to talk about donald trump's debate strategy. that's ahead thursday, night my for midland the most anticipated moment of this election, biden your honor, on america because that should we are a nation of possibility. we had the best economy, we had the best border, we had the best of everything, and now we got to do it all over again. we're going to do it even two very different visions for america. one unprecedented night moderated by jake tapper and dana bash, the cnn presidential debate thursday 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to go. but right now, george latimer is up 5,060.5%. jamaal bowman at 43 43.5%, and harry n-tensor units senior data political reporters it's here to break it all down. harry, i mean, you see those numbers, but also look at this visual of the two watch parties, the two for these two candidates right here, it's kind of a striking visual to see latimer is party of the left and bowman on the right, which is, pretty sparse. judging on what we're seeing at 9:23 p.m. yeah. >> one of those looks like a party in which people expect to win and that's on your left side, your screen. george latimer on your right side of the screen? not exactly the party that looks like they are expecting to celebrate this evening, which of course matches up with the poll results that we see so far, which is that george latimer has an advantage in this it's rice yeah. >> i mean, how could that change as what we're seeing being counted it we had mr. latimer here on the show last night, we were talking to his team about when they expect most of the vote totals to come in. obviously, they're looking at west cheddar, westchester county, and other other parts of this. >> yeah. so not much of a surprise to you. i was looking at the votes that have come in so far. this district is partially western chester, partially the bronx westeros, and makes up a larger share of it. and that's where latimer spaces. the bronx is where bowman's basis much more of the bronx has been counted so far as a percentage of the vote that's coming. there is much more of westchester come. i will note that latter mo is expected to do extremely well in the early vote. he has done so well in the early votes so far, uh, winning it by over two to one but even in the de, of election vote, that's coming in latimer still winning it by about 15:16 percentage points. and there's still a lot of that vote to be counted. so yeah, things could change. but at this particular point, if you have a lead like george latimer has, and you look at the vote that's outstanding. you'd much rather be him than jamaal bowman. >> well, and we talked about with him last night. i say this has been one of those expenses sensitive primary races and how saturday aipac is responsible for a lot of that. i think it was at 14 and-a-half million that they used to back lot of morbidity. >> those all ads weren't all about israel, so they didn't mentioned israel at all, but, but they made clear after october 7 happened that for those voices who are incredibly critical, that they were going to show that in there in their spending and jamaal bowman obviously was was one of those very few of the ads actually mentioned israel. >> that is not the mark key issue in this racist aya as far as i'm concerned, talking with local voters, uh, you know, i am just south just from south of that particular district. my friends actually accounting legislator from that district if you in fact talk to voters in that district, they would say it's not about israel, it's about the fact that you're ball moment hasn't delivered there and george latimer is a longtime local paul there. yeah. here. hang on a second because we do have a projection to make cnn can now project that republican congressman, congresswoman lauren boebert will win the republican primary and colorado's fourth congressional district after she was facing a tough reelection in her own district, she actually switched to run anymore republican leaning one. and herring this was something that a lot of republicans were actually unhappy about when this happened. there were accusations against her, but, but her last race, i mean, it was a hundreds of votes decided it maybe even fewer than that before she switched here. >> what do you make a of this? >> i think believe it was a six-week race between republican. >> it was a six way race. look, she vastly outraised for opponents. she had vastly higher name recognition. this is a very safe district, come the fall, ken buck, of course, retiring, who was not exactly friendly to donald trump. you'll end up with a much friendlier donald trump voice now from colorado's fourth district, at least as far as lauren boebert concerned, this was the right move. it definitely paid off and she's definitely a favorite heading into the fall. >> yeah. and we'll see what that continues to look like as you track the new york races, harington thank you for that. >> thank you up. >> we're gonna go next straight to the source with the speaker of the house, mike johnson. a lot to discuss with him. he will join us live and just moments. also are the biden and trump campaigns listening because we're going to speak to perhaps one of the most source people on america about what is this? >> secret strategy that has been proven to win debates on the final episode of violin there are deadly by lynch and unleash message hurricane impacts are worsening, is it too late to undo decades of climate change? >> violet ored with we have schreiber sunday 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prosecutor to look into your situation. >> it's just awfully good that someone with the temperament of donald trump is not in charge of the law in our country because you'd be in jail those three moments and many more are the kinds of my next guest has studied and the voters reactions to them for more than three decades long time pollster and communications strategist frank lance joins me now. and frank, i mean, you i've written this really interesting article today about what actually winds voters over when it's in debates. and shockingly to those vessel cable do is it's not always what, what the pundits think is the biggest takeaway. >> no, it's very frustrating and my walk here, i was saying to some of your staff be very careful who you predict as the winner because voters see it very differently. they're not trying to score points, they don't care if you tip up on something and actually not focused precisely on every detail. the looking at the personality to looking at the presentation, do i trust them? do i like them? can i? i see them as president? is this someone i want to have in my living room every night for the next four years. and in the end, it's reason why donald trump lost that debate with joe biden four years ago. and why he beat hillary clinton. and that line there all the pundit said, oh my god, we're gonna be a banana republic. he says he throw her in jail and every network when nuts on him are focus groups said, oh my god, he's actually going to hold her accountable. this is exactly what we're looking for and politics. so he was a disaster in 2020 and he was really good in 20th 16. >> well, when you look at those two moments, i'm sure there were some voters who did not like that moment. this is a political opponent clearly saying he'd put his other, his opponent in jail because he doesn't like her but when you actually look at this, you know, you write and this and say that the key moments about the greatest impact on the remaining undecided voters, which is obviously what we're all paying attention to here are those in which the candidates attack each other and defining ways or undermine the political case that each wants to present to americans. viewers will quickly decide whether the accusations are fair and the response is effective. i mean, if you are trying to appeal to these independent, undecided voters thursday night, what does that look like? >> otherwise, only four 4%. it's only in three states, pennsylvania, michigan, and wisconsin. and i be asking rhetorical question, just like reagan did is inflation higher or lower today than it was four years ago? is the borders safer or less safe? do you feel more or less secure if i'm donald trump at joe biden to you, really want to go back to that chaos. do you really want to go back to and i'm going to do that for three or four times either asked her question or make a statement where you know, the public at-home was nodding their heads? yes. >> the problem is, trump one's own joe biden, and he's got no self-control whatsoever. >> and then joe biden's case, he really hasn't figured out how they handle the ex-president and he's not made the case for his own reelection, as well as he could have. economy's better than people realize. the situation the legislation these past, they don't know this and it's not your fault it's the presence fault. >> when you're watching a football game and you're there and you can hear the audience, or you're watching on tv, or you could see the refs and their calls when you look at this and there's no audience for a moment like that. what trump said, what heller? clinton, there would've been no reaction to that inside that room if there had been no audience, if there's that if the mics are being cut off and maybe we'll still see them talking and the two shots, but not actually hear them. how much of a difference do you think that'll make huge? >> it's a big deal. these rules do not help donald trump. he was so eager to get joe biden into a debate that he said yes to anything thank if i've been advising him, i would have said don't not this one yes. you want to debate him, but not to these rules, you need an audience and seconds he's so he has no faith in biden even being able to complete a sentence. so week after week, he made fun of them. and now is trying to reverse that. now is trying to raise expectations it doesn't work. if you tell people for months, this guy can complete a sentence. >> yeah, with a week to go and you're saying, oh, it's going to be 4 or this rer is he's going to be jacked up on drugs was 2020s. always going to have an earpiece, both ridiculous accusations. the other thing though is these two men are at probably the best-known politicians and you let's history to see them go up to on the stage. everyone knows everything about them. is there anything really left to say to change voter's minds? do you think not much, 70% of americans do not want these two people. >> they're upset. that is joe biden versus donald trump in the end i believe we're going to be voting those final undecided voters, not on the candidate de, like, but the, and the candidate they dislike the least. and that's why our democracy is so challenged right now, we're not happy with our choices. so we're trying to vote for the least, worst evil when you put it that way, frank just sounds great and the most depressing guest you could ever have eventually you're going to stop allowing me to do this. >> but here's the problem. i listened to the american people in this is what they're telling me. >> great to have your frank. thank you for that. we'll see what the american people think of thursday night up next we have house speaker mike johnson joining us live. trump biden so much to discuss stay with us the most anticipated moment of this election, and the stakes couldn't be higher. the president and the former president one state which are two very different visions for america's 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now is westchester county executive democrat george latimer is going to defeat incumbent congressman jamaal bowman, who is now the first member of the so-called squad to be ousted. >> and what was new york? house primary. and the most expensive house primary race that we have ever seen. in new york's 16th congressional district. you heard from george latimer here last night, and now we can report he is expected to win that race and will likely win that race in november meanwhile, hormones in trump's team trying to raise expectations for president biden ahead of that debate here on thursday night, the trump campaign telling cnn that biden will be equal, ready to go. they believe, of course a big question, how ready is their candidate? i want to bring out one of trump's top allies in washington, the house speaker mike johnson, joining us live speaker johnson, great to have you here. have you given informed president trump any advice about what you think you should do on stage thursday night well, i spent time with him over the last week and i can tell you he's in a great mood and a great place and i'm looking forward to the vision that he's going to cast for the country on thursday night. >> i think it'll be a big night for him and i think there'll be a stark contrast between his vision for america that's very positive. vision that he wants to cast. and with really, i think the terribly weak record of president biden, it's hard to hide from, i think that contrast will be a stark one. >> yeah, you've previously said that you have seen a cognitive decline in president biden, but don't you worry that you would fellow republicans have set the bar pretty low for him? >> look, i just tell the truth, kaitlyn, i mean, i don't have no personal animus against joe biden. of course, i respect the office and i've just acknowledged what everyone sees. we can't help how we age. everybody ages differently at a different pace. my father-in-law is the same exact age as president biden, but his it's on his a game me. he worked 12 hours a day, runs a small business that he's been running for years and he's vibrant and he's just he can he can do almost anything seemingly. and president biden cannot. i mean, that's what people see. and so it's a dangerous thing. i take no pleasure in saying it because our adversaries see that as well. i think it's gonna be a very interesting contrast between these two men. and the interesting thing about this race, caitlin, is that both of these men have been president so you can ignore the rhetoric. you can ignore the talking points. you can look at, at the record of these two men and i think that's a really important one as well. >> do you think so the rhetoric speaker johnson, i mean, just knowing you and how you conduct yourself decent. some of the rhetoric is out of line where when people from trump's team are suggesting that trump himself, that biden is going to be on cocaine when hizon a debate stage thursday night look, there's a lot of things that are said in jest of course, no one expects that joe biden, we'd be on cocaine, but they do ask questions and i think their objectives, i mean, i think it makes sense why people are asking will it be on some sort of energy drinks or something? >> okay. look, his energy levels, you can see very dependent on what format is in and what forum and we expect that he'll do what he did at the state of the union. he had a lot of energy that night, so that's the joe biden i expect to see that the question is, can he stay for 90 minutes on that stage and go toe-to-toe with president trump, who has, you know, goes to rallies and talks for two hours on end without any break and any notes. so it'll be a very interesting thing to see. >> i mean, the allegations just about drugs have just been frankly ridiculous and obviously are baseless as well. but let me ask you something that's happening on capitol hill because you've bowed previously to push back on donald trump's prosecution's, you suggested that the funding of the special counsel's office could be an opportunity for that, but republican approach graders are not attempting to define jack smith in their latest proposal today. how come well, there's a lot of talk about how we get control of the out-of-control special counsels and i think many of the abuses that we've seen in the system, there's a lot of frustration about that and it's not just house republicans, it's all the american people. >> i'm traveling around the country. i've been done campaign events over 130 cities now and 30 states. and the last six months. and there's real frustration about that. people see a two-tiered system of justice that's how they describe it themselves. it's not a republican talking points, so we've got to bring accountability because that's the role of congress under the constitution. the question is, what's the best and most effective? way to do that? so there's a lot of thoughtful discussion and debate. the underlying bill doesn't have their provision end, but there may be amendments, but we have to look at what is actually a law making exercise and not just a messaging exercise, because the times are two important. so values and how to do it. the jury's still out, we'll see it's not in the underlying bill. i mean, an amendment could be i didn't but if you really wanted it, you would just put it in the underlying bill. but but if it is ultimately in there, is that just a messaging tactic? because it's not actually going to go anywhere and define the special counsel's office no, it's not a question about what we want. we definitely want to bring the special counsel under control, but there's differences of opinion even among house republicans on the best way to do that, do you hire special that you can do that, then you have the ability to do that look, i think there is a role for a special counsel function and the purpose of it is because the department of justice is an executive agency branch. obviously, an executive agency and the executive branch. and sometimes there's a conflict of interest. let's say, for example, republicans may >> it has an important function, but it has been abused. i mean, i think jack smith has abused his position and what he's done. and i think that bears investigation. i think the funding streams is an important part of that, and that's what congress is very carefully and deliberately debating. how do you solve the problem without creating a bigger one. and that's what we're going through right now. >> but are you still debating it? if it's not? not going to be in that underlying proposal that came out from the house appropriations committee tonight when you previously suggested that would be a way to go after jack smith's. so do not believe any longer that that is a way to go after the special counsel's office here no but it's not about what my personal belief is. it's about what we can actually get enacted into law. and obviously, chuck schumer and the senate would probably not take that up. we could do and i can guess that. and i'm sure president biden would not signed into law. right. so we have to look at what's reality of the smallest margin in us? can we actually get enacted? we're trying to get appropriations bills done that reflect our priorities. and if we have things in there that make that offer, we've got to carefully debate. that's happening right now. this part of the process, i mean, we've seen that playing out. marjorie taylor greene tonight. what was saying? it was a complete and utter failure of the republican controlled house by, by not doing that, she said she let you know that, but let me ask you about something else figured johnson because we understand this evening that the house of representatives is weighing in and actually taking an official position on what we're on the verge of seeing happening on monday. steve bannon reporting to prison for defying a congressional subpoena and failing to respond to that. can you confirm that the house is expected to take an official position on that? and if so, what is it? >> i can confirm that will be filing a brief in that legal proceeding and we think that's really important to do. we think the previous statement of the house under speaker pelosi was incorrect. we do not believe the january 6 special committee was properly constituted. we don't think it fall to house rules and now we're finding under our own investigation that they may have in fact covered up some evidence that's great concern to a lot of people. you'll see a lengthy report come out on that. but in the meantime, when they're using that to prosecute people, we think it's important for the house's position to be known the current house. and that is that we don't believe that that was a proper committee properly constituted that did appropriate work at the court should take that into consideration. and i think we have an obligation to make that position. no. >> do you worry that that will undercut your ability to enforce congressional subpoenas in the future, though no, not at all. you got two totally different matters i mean, we're going to court by the way, to enforce the subpoena against merrick garland the judiciary committee is going to proceed in the court to make sure that the audio tape of the lengthy interview with the special counsel and president biden is turned over to congress. we have a right to see it. in fact, we have an obligation and necessity to hear that audio to make sure that it matches with the written transcript that merrick garland, the attorney general, turned over to the house okay. you gotta you gotta conflict between the two branches were using article one of the constitution as it were supposed to do. >> and of course, steve bannon was no longer working and the executive branch wet when he had had his subpoena for the time period that it was relevant to. we'll see how this pans out, how the supreme court takes it. house speaker mike johnson, thank you for your time tonight thank you so much. up next, speaking of steve bannon, we have new reporting about the judge overseeing his criminal fraud case here in new york thursday night, my from atlanta. the most anticipated moment of this election biden your honor, on america future here's we are a nation of possibility. >> trump. we had the best economy we had the best border, we had the best of everyday, but now we get to do it all over again. >> we're going to do it even better. two very different visions for america. >> one unprecedented night moderated by jake tapper and dana bash, the cnn presidential debate thursday night at nine live on cnn and streaming on x i want a lot of businesses. so my and my network need to keep up. thank you verizon business. >> now, our businesses get fast and reliable internet from the same network that powers our phones. >> so whatever's next, we're cooking with fire switch to the partner. >> businesses rely on compared 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judge? yes. at one who oversaw donald trump's criminal hush money trial last month will no longer overseas. steve bannon's upcoming trial this fall. they were scheduled to happen in the same courthouse with the same judge, but tonight that's changed. rishon was not removed from the case, but has another case that conflicts with the scheduling of bannon's trial. i'm told. now another judge has been assigned to take that case. of course. all as he is on the verge of reporting to present in another case, joining me here tonight, cnn senior legal analyst and former federal prosecutor, elie honig elleithee. this is kind of a surprise. i'm told biden's team learned about this on friday night. what do you make a this normal? how does this work? what happens? usually it's just a the administrative issue. you may look at the different judges and say, oh, this one's overloaded on his docket. that one has some room on hur's or there's a scheduling conflict with trials that kind of thing and so a lot of times it's kinda moved, just gets made administratively or by the chief judge. and there's nothing really more to it. i will say though usually the judge who's losing the case doesn't least get consulted. hey, are you okay? with giving up this case? i mean, remember there was originally a conflict between the trump trial and the ban and trial. and judge merchan clearly prioritize the trump trial. so this happens, it's not unusual. yeah. do we know anything about this new judge who is going to be taking the cases and getting delayed or anything from what we know, bannon's actually scheduled to appear before hurt later this month. yeah. judging april new bauer. so i talked to some of my sources. i will not report them on even your sources have sources here. here's some of the intel i got from her. she's been on the bench for about not from her about her for about 12 years. her primary experience before this wish, she worked at the legal aid society, which provides legal services to indigent poor people. here's a couple of things that people told me that have appeared in front of her she is a very, very hard worker, always on trial. no slacking. someone said she is, quote, a very, very left liberal. >> and i said, how do you think that plays? and this person said, well defense lawyers usually like liberal judges on the other hand, liberals don't love steve bannon. so who knows? and then another person said, i found this really interesting from a defense attorneys it's perspective, she's the best judge in the courthouse smart, friendly, polite, thoughtful, and does not automatically rule for the prosecutor every time so generally positive reviews, it's interesting, there seems to be a consensus she's very liberal. i don't know which way that's going to play here. yeah. >> and just to remind people, this case was for defrauding donors and that build the walls scheme. and people might think, well, i thought trump, pardon who for that, trump did. and the federal charges, these are state charges that looked almost exactly like those charges. and of course, presidential pardons don't apply to state charges. and you know, it's so interesting. so originally painted was charged federally by my former office the sdny trump pardoned only bannon all the other co-defendants in that case. where eventually convinced if they do, they're pled guilty or went to trial and got sentenced the time. but bannon is close with trump. he got out of the key was pardon. now ban interfaces state charges for the same fraud scheme. yeah. and so what we're watching all of this, obviously bannon's here and we'll happening while he's also as far as to report to prison on monday. the other case we're watching is the documents case in florida. and judge jaylene cannon, we've talked at length about her and how she's ever seeing this. what are the arguments that are listening to now is they're trying to, and we saw new pictures as they were pushing back on claims that they had staged the evidence. i mean, we saw the boxes of classified documents firsthand, but part of it is they're trying to say the search warrant was invalid. she seemed though, to argue no, it's it's not that she's not buying this. the reason they put those those photos in the brief is because they're trying to respond to an argument that doj and the fbi shuffled up the documents and cut them out of order and the response from doj's look, they were already a mess. that motion to invalidate the search warrant will fail. donald trump will not succeed on that motion. okay. we'll be watching. well, we'll see when she rules on the that's a prediction. i don't do them often, but there's one. >> elie honig thanks for bringing your sources to the soce