want to pay for pete buttigieg to get awards for the way people have sex. >> tonight, the high stakes of having these people control the government. >> what house republican told nbc news, the caucus is ungovernable. another put it mor pointedly, i don't think the lord jesus himself could manage this group. >> then, the trump threat becomes an explicit promise. >> if i happen to be president, and i see somebody who's doing well, and beating me very badly, i, say go down and indict them. >> tonight, the republican front runner has already used his doj to take out enemies. plus -- >> governor andy beshear, a real man wouldn't let man steal trophies from -- >> republicans keep losing the culture wars elections across the country. and i witnessed the horrors of war, my interview with one of the few journalists who experienced the hamas attack on october 7th. all in starts right now. >> good evening, from new york, i'm chris hayes. the federal government of the united states is one week away from being shut down. yes, i know you're thinking, here we are again, thanks to a chaotic and incompetent republican-controlled house of representatives. this is due, this time, in some part, to the fact that they've got a brand-new speaker of the house in charge, maga, mike johnson. who has a literally zero experience in house leadership. he's never served as a party whip, or a conference chair, or even share to committee. that guy is essentially flying by the seat of his pants. he is going to have to unite this unruly conference, into something that can legislate. and as democratic congressman, sean captain, noted on the house for this week, it's not going great. >> as you know, we operate on a september 30th fiscal year. here we, our 39 days later. the majority has yet to even propose a way to keep the government open. the last september, i kicked the can down the road, kept the government open for 45 days. in the words of mr. santos, that made you all big mad. -- now you have a new speaker. a lot of you are still big mad. so instead of working, we are sitting here, this, week it debating nonsense. so today, we are voting on a bill that would defund the ability of regulators to develop consistent climate accounting rules, instead of doing the work of the people. mister speaker, science is real. we have real challenges, please stop being big man. >> as a congressman alluded to, there, here's what's happening right. now there's basically two tracks for this narrow house republican majority. the track they are currently on is one where they ignore their actual responsibilities, and instead, push an agenda fox news culture war nonsense. congressman casten expanded on that strategy, in a very funny twitter thread, setting examples like the house republican plan to defund the office of gun violence prevention. an amendment to change white house press secretary, karine jean-pierre's salary to $1. ha. an amendment to set the salary of the chairman of securities exchange commission to $1. there's also some big business interests going on here. house republicans -- slash the budget of the consumer product safety commission, the folks who decide if baby toys are safe for market, among other potentially hazardous products. they also tried to illuminate something they've been trying to get for ever. the consumer financial protection bureau, entirely, not of, course an agency -- predatory and unfair practices. additionally, just to make sure donald trump is appeased, the third ranking republican in the house, who you really think would be concentrating full-time on the congress, at least a, fonac has taken the time to file an ethics complaint against the judge overseeing the ex president civil fraud case. that was not just this week so that's one track for the party. pushing the stuff, doing the business of big business. while the clock ticks towards another shutdown. the other track is the actual important one. that's the track where republicans, set aside all their various culture war amendments, and study pranks, in order to find a way to fund the various parts of the u.s. government using the power of the purse, given to them, by the founders in article one of our constitution. thon this issue, the important stuff, the bedrock, stuff mike johnson is just absolutely flattering. now he insists the house must pass separate bills. not on the bus, but appropriations bills from the various different agencies and entities, to find the various parts of the government, instead of getting it all done in one big omnibus. okay, fine. got a passing individual bill. what happened this week? so, far republicans have tried to tear up two of those, and then pulled them at the last minute. two separate must pass bills from the floor got pulled, why? because they don't have the votes. they don't have the republican votes. if this all sounds a little familiar, it's because it is exactly what started us down the road to begin with. you might remember, roughly two months ago, when former speaker, kevin mccarthy, was trying to get funding bills passed before a looming shutdown deadline. his successor, mccarthy ran up against the basic problem of the heart of this narrow house republican majority. when it comes to the actual, real, brass tacks business of the u.s. congress, funding the government at different levels for different programs and bureaus, there are two irreconcilable wings the republican party. whatever compromise you think you can come up with, you will face one group that will run against you, because they think you're spending too much. or another group that will vote against you because they think you are not spending enough. meaning, you cannot pass spending bills, unilaterally, on a party line vote with this republican majority alone. it just doesn't work. mathematically. this is a point that democratic senate majority leader, chuck schumer, try to stress to the new house speaker this week. >> the only way, let me say the third time, the only way we have voided shutdown is with bipartisan cooperation. just as it was true in september, and it will be true in the future. i implore speaker johnson and our house republican colleagues to learn from the fiasco of a month ago. >> yes, learn. we went through this. remember, the debt ceiling thing, they worked out a deal, with spending levels. then they tried to mccarthy and the house caucus were going to undo that deal. it doesn't work. you can't do it alone. it's that simple. if speaker johnson wants to keep the government open, he will need to reach across the aisle for democratic votes. but if he does that, oh, then he becomes a sellout. the party fringe will say johnson has betrayed the mega party. -- they'll revolt against him. we know this, of course, because it just happened. kevin mccarthy could not keep the government funded with just republican votes. so he made a deal with the white house and the senate democrats to keep it open for 45 days. he brought that up to a vote, and it passed. huge bipartisan majority. an extreme minority is now a majority, then fired him because of it. that compromise strategy is the only way to pass spending bills in the house. mike johnson knows it. everyone in leadership knows. it everyone on capitol hill knows it. if he does it, he runs the risk of being seen as having betrayed the conservative cause. i'm not fighting enough, of being a sellout. so here we are, one speaker has already been fired. at least three others failed to secure the gavel during that torturous three weeks. after 21 days of a speaker list south, this backbencher, with no experience, is now in charge. yet, nothing has changed at all. they're in exactly the same position they were, without kevin mccarthy, in september. instead of doing anything about, that they are taking symbolic votes to defund the folks who make sure there is no lead paint in toys. congressman, jamie raskin, it's a democrat in maryland. he served on the january 6th committee. he's now the top democrat on the oversight committee. he joins me now. am i -- did i get anything wrong there about the way this math works? >> no, i think you've got it all right. my only caveat here is i don't know that the conflict within the gop is between those who want to spend more, and those who want to spend less. as we saw during the trump administration, they don't really care about deficits. that all goes out the window. what's really happening here is you have a kleptocrat, donald trump, who runs the gop. he's in it as family business. he's a guy who does take $1 for his salary. annually, when he's president. why? because he's collecting tens of millions of dollars from the autocrats of the world, saudi arabia, united arab emirates, indonesia, egypt, you name it. how does a person like that form a working majority with the gop? the kleptocrats have to reach out to the theo crowds. that's where mike johnson and the right-wing, white christian nationalists come into. it the problem is that those people really want to legislate antiabortion, like mike johnson, whose position is no abortions in the country at all, with no exceptions for rape or incest. they start attaching graffiti, all of these antiabortion amendments, all of these homophobic anti-gay amendments. anti-diversity equity inclusion, there are about a dozen republicans left who are in no on a completely gerrymandered districts. in other words, they are not in districts that have been drawn bright red in the image of donald trump and maga. those people don't want to be voting to ban abortion in the district of columbia. they don't want to be bashing gay people, they certainly don't want to be legislating against choice across the country. that's the fix that they are in. those people's political future depends on moving away from mega. but maga will only give their votes if they get that stuff. >> that's super limiting. there's all these poison pill culture war amendments they went to attach, and there's some group of the caucus that just can't vote for them. my understanding to is that those top line numbers for all the funding this year that was worked out in that get ceiling deal, between mccarthy, and biden, and the senate, those are the numbers. they are the numbers there working off in the senate. but there's a faction of the house that won't think those numbers are too big and wants to cut. if they do, that the appropriators don't want to cut that much. so, they are irreconcilable. >> that's true to. there's a faction of the freedom caucus, the chip roy people, who will not vote for those numbers if it's a democratic administration. >> right -- >> if it's with. trump of course, the vote for those numbers. and much more inflated than that. but that's true. in other words, they want to show that somehow they are slashing into the social budget. they want to cut s.n.a.p. benefits. they want to dismantle anything the government does that doesn't directly benefit donald trump, and it doesn't directly benefit them in the corporations that they serve. that's a problem too. what we've got is a rule or ruin mentality. either trump is going to be in, and he's going to rule all the way to the point of dictating who gets prosecuted, and who doesn't, we already saw with roger stone sentencing, for example, how micro he wants to get, in terms of telling the department of justice what to do. or, if they can't roll, they're just going to ruin everything. they'll shut the government down, they'll impeach joe biden for absolutely nothing. they'll just be a wrecking ball against democratic purposes. >> i don't think the main story here is the personalities that issue, or their experience. i don't think the most gifted legislator in the world, nancy pelosi, for example, if she was trying to whip this caucus, would have that much success. but i also think that one of the things i've learned in my life is, you know, there's certain technique and expertise that comes with any craft. whether you're building cabinets or you are teaching kids, your working as a crossing guard. serving food. that, sure as heck, is, true for trying to get a caucus together. it just seems like as all of the people to try to do this, you served in congress, he's starting from zero on the task at hand. >> i mean there are complicated rules and traditions in relationships that actually govern the real legislative process. someone like mike johnson says the bible comes first, over the constitution, then the constitution. then the laws and the rules and regulations. by the time you get down there, it's too late. they are sending us something, i don't even know what it is, a few days before the government is about to shut down. they don't have respect for the actual legislative process. >> congressman, jamie raskin, thank you so much for your time, sir. i appreciate it. still ahead, how donald trump has always tried to use the justice department as a congressman was just saying, to punish his enemies, to protect his friends, and how he's announcing plans to finally achieve that goal completely, in a second term. that's next. 's next. le ways of doing things. america's plastic makers are investing billions of dollars in new technologies and creating plastic products that are more recyclable. durable. and dependable. our goal is a cleaner, healthier planet for generations to come. for a better tomorrow, we're focused on making plastics better today. i work hard, and i want my money to work hard too. so, i use my freedom unlimited card. earning on my favorite soup. aaaaaah. got it. earning on that éclair. don't touch it, don't touch it yet. let me get the big one. nope. -this one? -nope. -this one? -yes. no. what? the big one. they're all the same size. wait! lemme get 'em all. i'm gonna get 'em all! earn big with chase freedom unlimited. how do you cashback? chase. make more of what's yours. detect this: living with hiv, i learned i can stay undetectable with fewer medicines. that's why i switched to dovato. dovato is a complete hiv treatment for some adults. no other complete hiv pill uses fewer medicines to help keep you undetectable than dovato. detect this: most hiv pills contain 3 or 4 medicines. dovato is as effective with just 2. if you have hepatitis b, don't stop dovato without talking to your doctor. don't take dovato if you're allergic to its ingredients or taking dofetilide. this can cause serious or life-threatening side effects. if you have a rash or allergic reaction symptoms, stop dovato and get medical help right away. serious or life-threatening lactic acid buildup and liver problems can occur. tell your doctor if you have kidney or liver problems, or if you are pregnant, breastfeeding, or considering pregnancy. dovato may harm an unborn baby. most common side effects are headache, nausea, diarrhea, trouble sleeping, tiredness, and anxiety. detect this: i stay undetectable with fewer medicines. ask your doctor about switching to dovato. the long-lasting scent of gain flings made it smell like dave was in his happy place... ...the massage chair at the mall. but...he wasn't. gain flings with oxi boost and febreze. when migraine strikes you're faced with a choice. ride it out with the tradeoffs of treating? or push through the pain and symptoms? with ubrelvy, there's another option. one dose works fast to eliminate migraine pain treat it anytime, anywhere. without worrying where you are or if it's too late. do not take with strong cyp3a4 inhibitors. allergic reactions to ubrelvy can happen. most common side effects were nausea and sleepiness. migraine pain relief starts with u. ask about ubrelvy. learn how abbvie could help you save. hey, doc, if you had to choose, would you give yourself a root canal or run payroll? oh, run payroll. paying my team with gusto takes just a few clicks. they automatically file my taxes for me too. can i run payroll too? choose payroll without the pain. >> they weaponize the justice department. they've weaponized the fbi. and they've come at me with the worst indictments. they've done something that allows the next party, i mean, if i happen to be president, and i see somebody who's doing well, and beating me very badly, i say, go down and indict them. mostly, that would be, you know, they would be out of business. they beat out. they'd be out of the election. >> donald trump continues to be very outspoken about his plans, if he's reelected, to complete what he started on january 6th. to end american constitutional governance as we know it. and replace it with what would amount to a american presidential dictatorship. in an interview with univision that aired last night, he couches his plans to use the doj to go after political enemies by saying basically they started it,, they being the current administration. but the plain fact is that trump already did this as president publicly, all the time. berating and badgering his attorney general, jeff sessions, not behind closed doors. but on twitter. to open investigations into hillary clinton, including on an almost daily basis during one period in july, 2017. he ordered an investigation into political opponents, and got some of them through. there was a yearlong investigation that the clinton foundation, that came to nothing. remember that one? he got as attorney general, billarr, to appoint a special counsel to investigate the origins of the russia probe. and what became one of the most disastrously failed investigations that turned up nothing, went longer than mueller, and got a bunch of acquittals. donald trump has already tried this. what he is saying this time, and what they're planning this time, quite plainly, is that they're going to make sure they staff the department of justice with people who do what he tells them people who always say yes. ian bassin served as associate white house counsel to president obama. he's now the founder and executive founder of protect democracy, a nonpartisan organization dedicated to fighting authoritarian threats to our democracy. he joins me now. ian, at some level, it's not new, and it's not shocking to hear him say this, but i do feel like you have to listen to what they are saying, he, and people around, him about what they intend here. they are not being particularly coy about it. ey are not bei ng particularl coy ab>> no, it's very troublin. because the cornerstone of our law enforcement system is that law enforcement is conducted independently, and at arms length, from politics. there's a couple ways you could design a system. you could say that the power of prosecuting and imprisoning ones citizens could be -- wielded by their. well whoever they want to go after, they could do. it we've chosen as a country to not adopt that the system. you can make a different choice that some people could never be prosecuted, former presidents, will never prosecute them, they'll be above the law. we've chosen not to adopt that system either. what we've chosen is to adopt a system in which people are prosecuted after independent investigation, application of law and facts, and the same procedures are followed for everyone. it's that system that has resulted in donald trump being indicted multiple times. he's trying to pull the wool over american's eyes, and hoping he can muddy it up, say, no, that's not what happened. i get to use the first system. i get to do whatever i want. that's not the american system, that's the russian system. >> as a comparison, the department of justice is a unique instrument in all this. i spoke about this the other night with eric alter, just because it's not in the united states constitution. it wields tremendous power. it's part of the executive but we needed to be independent in some sort of core faction, even though that isn't quite constitutionally spelled. out obviously, due process is. here's merrick garland,, right in his memo to doj personnel in july, 2021. setting up this very intensive firewall for this purpose. saying, over the course of four decades, attorney generals have issued policies governing communications between the justice department and the white house. then going into why you can't just be talking to people in the white house, basically, because we have to keep ourselves independent from them. >> i'm glad you brought up that memo. in fact, since watergate, memos like that have been issued both by the department of justice, and the white house. right, on both sides of that relationship. that's strictly regulate and limit contact between the white house and the department of justice. when i was in the white house counsel's office, part of my job was making sure that we very strictly follow those rules. and we did. and the reason is because, as you know, it's not that the department of justice -- you, right the department of justice isn't specifically outlined, for example, in the constitution. but there are constitutional provisions that those memories seek to implement. that it's not just the due process clause, as you know it. it's the equal protection clause, it's the take care clause, it's the first amendment. which protects people from being prosecuted for their political views. donald trump, not only did he try to override that during his first term, but the movement he's built is explicitly talking about throwing it out now. there is this movement called project 2025, which has built this blueprint for a second trump presidency. if you look at that document, black and white, on page 28, it suggests revisiting that memo, and opening the operators for more context between the white house in the department of justice. it looks pretty innocuous, but it could not be more dangerous. >> how possible is? that one of the things that we saw, even with jeff sessions, i never thought particularly highly of jeff sessions, but he didn't just order investigations willy-nilly when ordered by the president. one of the things we also saw is that people in the upper echelons of the legal positions even in the waiting days of the trump administration threatened to quit or wouldn't go along with the clue i guess the question is how plausible is it in your mind that they can implement what they are trying to implement. >> we know that trump wants to do it because he has said so. that's not questionable. there's three things that should stand generally in the way. one is the internal executive branch of bureaucracy. the white house counsel's office, the department of justice, the oaths that bureaucrats take. that's what prevented it last time. but we know that donald trump has plans, and has a movement of plans to replace all those people and make sure that there is just loyalists there. not only in making sure, for example, that his white house counsel is entirely loyal and compliant, but in changing who is a protected civil servant. this is something needed at the end of his administration. to allow him to make more political appointees. that first check is going to be gone. the second check is congress. congress checks and balances oversight of the department of justice, and were the department of justice to start doing things that were fundamentally at odds with the independent application of the rule of law, congress should intervene. as we've seen, he's completely captured his party in congress, and his party in congress is not in control of the legislative -- that chuck will be gone. to the last took is the courts. atif he's in office for another term, and appointing people like judge aileen carroll down in florida, who is delaying his trial on the documents case, he's going to have compliant judges to. then, there are no more fail-safes after that. >> that's terrifying. but there are fail-safes. that's the key, after, that their stuff in there, and there's a lot of bulwark, they just have to be reinforced in every possible conceivable way. ian bassin, who recently was awarded a mcarthur genius fellowship. congratulations on that. when i heard the news, i said, i know that guy for a long time, he's smart enough. genius, i don't know. but good work. >> thanks chris, it's a tribute to all the amazing people i work with that protect democracy. >> really as well deserved. thanks a lot, ian. >> thank you. >> still ahead. a big week for democrats, and a big al for culture warriors across america. that's next. that's next. the chase ink business premier card is made for people like sam, who make- everyday products, designed smarter. like a smart coffee grinder, that orders fresh beans for you. oh, genius! for more breakthroughs like that- i need a breakthrough card. like ours! with 2.5% cash back on purchases of $5,000 or more. plus unlimited 2% cash back on all other purchases. and with greater spending potential, sam can keep making smart ideas- a brilliant reality! the ink business premier card from chase for business. make more of what's yours. i was stuck. unresolved depression symptoms were in my way. i needed more from my antidepressant. vraylar helped give it a lift. adding vraylar to an antidepressant... is clinically proven to help relieve overall depression symptoms... ...better than an antidepressant alone. and in vraylar clinical studies, most saw no substantial impact on weight. elderly dementia patients have increased risk of death or stroke. report unusual changes in behavior or suicidal thoughts. antidepressants can increase these in children and young adults. report fever, stiff muscles, or confusion, as these may be life-threatening, or uncontrolled muscle movements, which may be permanent. high blood sugar, which can lead to coma or death, weight gain, and high cholesterol may occur. movement dysfunction and restlessness are common side effects. stomach and sleep issues, dizziness, increased appetite, and fatigue are also common. side effects may not appear for several weeks. i didn't have to change my treatment. i just gave it a lift. >> once again, this, year ask about vraylar and learn how abbvie could help you save. republicans, in states that have elections, campaigned hard on a handful of hot button wedge issues, at least the way they see them. culture war stuff like parental rights, trans swimmers winning trophies that other people should win, and as we've seen before, it ju dn't work. look at kentucky, a conservative pack their launched a 2 million dollar campaign, that's a lot of money in that race. featuring a former college immer attacking her trans opponent. and democratic governor, any this year, for supporting trans rights. >> this is lia thomas. he's a male that claims he's a woman, and he won a ncaa title at the women's swimming championships. this is the trophy that thomas and i tied for. it's the trophy that thomas got to take home and i went home empty-handed. this is trans rights activist, and it was sheer. he vetoed legislation that would ban them from competing in women sports. >> in a state donald trump carried by 25 points, the voters of kentucky looked at that and said, i just don't care. i truly don't care. not only do they not work, it wasn't even close. governor beshear defeated his republican opponent by more than five points. in a state that went for donald trump in 20. five jess mcintosh i -- . michelle goldberg is an opinion columnist at the new york times. they join me now. i've gotta say, it's very tempting, i always wanted to get the case that things that you think are bad will not work in the electorate. you always want it to be the case. >> sometimes they do. >> i think some of that stuff has real -- this is not working. i think it's fair to say. >> yeah, i mean, i'm old enough to have lived through 2004, for example, where the anti-gay marriage demagoguing absolutely worked. you, right this is not working. especially it's not working around abortion. i think that's the kind of magic bullet here for democrats in kentucky, in ohio, obviously, in virginia, you've seen republicans really frail around looking for language. that's in some ways why they've pivoted to trans issues especially about issue won in ohio. didn't want to speak about abortion so they pretended this referendum was about something that it had nothing to do with. because their stances on the sexual issue are so unpopular. >> they did it in michigan. to the ballot initiative on abortion there, it also didn't work. >> the disinformation was absolutely wild in ohio around issue one. but the trans issues don't work either. i think, because, look, the majority of americans probably don't understand everything about gender identity. they might be confused about some aspects of the trans experience, but they don't want trans kids to get bullied. they just don't. the idea that they think you would leap from i am learning about something to i am afraid of something, i, think says a lot more about them than it does about the voting population on a whole. >> i agree, i also think there's always the salient issue. you can go out into a field in the poll, find voters are with us on this. maybe they are. if you ask people, do you think that trans folks should be able to compete against women in swimming. maybe they tell you, yeah, i don't think that's good. it's just not very high up on the issue. >> bodily autonomy is. that's why they can't -- we talk so much about suburban women, soccer moms, the one mom's, this week, suburban women, they got to talk back. it was so loud, and they can be ignored. we are looking at the exits, obviously they pull this across the finish line. that's incredible. >> there's an ideological unity between those two that's important. one of the things that beshear said, which i thought was smart, in this race, he vetoed the bill, which would have banned trans health care for youth -- that's a family's decision. but what they're gonna do with their kid. as a christian, and as a dad, i don't agree with that. that's very similar to the progressive democratic view on abortion, it's just not any of your business. >> you've also seen this at even a smaller level. you saw the far-right get creamed in a bunch of school board races -- >> iowa. >> yeah, where basically you have the right for so long, i think that initially there was a lot of discontent among parents, because of remote, schooling and school closures, and the right extrapolated from that to imagine that they -- all of these disaffected parents shared all their grievances about, quote, unquote, indoctrination, grooming, the rest of it. the people saw, that they just thought these people are weirdos. these people are obsessed with bizarre strange things. this was a big victory for what people sometimes call team normal. >> i think that's exactly right. i think another thing that has happened is your fix stations have to matter -- there's only so much your fixed stations cannot match the electorates fixations. you can have stuff that you think is a useful wedge, but in the end, if you are campaigning, you've got to talk about stuff that people care about. there's only so much you can change what exactly they are governed by. >> i think the idea that women, and men too, wouldn't care about this issue, as much as they would care about -- i don't honestly know what could be bigger. it's just something that, frankly, our society has gone wrong before. the media has gone wrong before. this is a foundational issue. it's the most important economic decision you ever make, whether or not you have kids. and i think what we saw this week, is a microcosm of what we're going to see all year next year. a lot of democrats being very worried about top of the ticket about pulling, all of that, and everyone just talking on the ground, doing the, work turning out. that is hopefully what we see in 2024, as well. >> on that note, this is the axios report of the white house saying this is from before the election -- this is back in september. telling nervous dams, just chill. the white house has a blunt message for doomscrolling democrats fretting about the presidents old age and bad poll numbers, climb up and chill out. i think there's an answered descriptive question about whether biden's head to head poll numbers about trump are reflective specifically to him about his age -- or whether they're missing something in the electorate. i have to, say after that weekend, what it did to how democrats think about what they are is pretty striking. >> i think it's certainly true, you tweeted, right the through line of the last three years has been this panic over poll numbers, punctuated by these better than usual election nights. i, mean it is true that the democratic coalition now, includes a lot more -- >> high propensity. >> right, high propensity voters. so we're more positioned for a few elections. one of the bizarre ironies in some ways high turnout might in this environment come to benefit the right, even though they are so averse to voting rights laws. so we don't actually know whether this is going to hold up. although, i think that the right is doing everything they can to make sure it does hold up. you see, i thought after ohio,, okay that's off the table for 2024. but no, because they are trying to -- >> you put out the wildest thing in iowa republican state legislature, we don't care, we are going through with it. -- >> and we're going to strip the courts of their ability to enforce this. >> that no vote can take away the god given right to be born. >> they are just straight-up saying democracy isn't the best way, now. it's not actually that, great democracy, they are saying those words allowed. >> we're going to keep going on that ohio story, it's not done yet. jess mcintosh, michelle goldberg, thank you both. when we come back, the important role of journalists in a time of war and an eyewitness account from a newspaper correspondent who survived the hamas attack. that's ahead. 's ahead ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ get it with gurus. cargurus. meet the jennifers. each planning their future through the chase mobile app. hellooo new apartment. one bank for now. for later. for life. chase. make more of what's yours. if you're looking for a medicare supplement insurance plan that's smart now... i'm 65. and really smart later i'm 70-ish. consider an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan from unitedhealthcare. with this type of plan, you'll know upfront about how much your care costs. which makes planning your financial future easier. so call unitedhealthcare today to learn more about the only plans of their kind with the aarp name. and set yourself and your future self up with an aarp medicare supplement plan from unitedhealthcare. (♪♪) we're lucky to have this team working for us. our therapists give their all each day, by helping those who need it most. we take great pride not just in the job our team does, but in them as people. our people. and while we're in the business of taking care of others... it's important our therapists know that with benefits from principal, they're taken care of too. (♪♪) somedays, i cover up because of my moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. now i feel free to bare my skin, thanks to skyrizi. ♪(uplifting music)♪ ♪nothing is everything♪ i'm celebrating my clearer skin... my way. with skyrizi, 3 out of 4 people achieved 90% clearer skin at 4 months. in another study, most people had 90% clearer skin, even at 5 years. and skyrizi is just 4 doses a year, after 2 starter doses. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine, or plan to. thanks to clearer skin with skyrizi - this is my moment. there's nothing on my skin and that means everything! ♪nothing is everything♪ now's the time. ask your doctor about skyrizi, the #1 dermatologist-prescribed biologic in psoriasis. learn how abbvie could help you save. ♪ ♪ wake up, gotta go! learn how abbvie could c'mon, c'mon. -gracie, c'mon. let's go! guys, c'mon! mom, c'mon! mia! [ engine revving ] ♪ ♪ my favorite color is... because, it's like a family thing! [ engine revving ] ♪ ♪ made it! mom! leave running behind, behind. the new turbocharged volkswagen atlas. does life beautifully. i work hard, and i want my money to work hard too. so, i use my freedom unlimited card. earning on my favorite soup. aaaaaah. got it. earn big with chase freedom unlimited. how do you cashback? chase. make more of what's yours. >> at least 40 journalists have been killed since the hamas attacks on october 7th and the israeli campaign in response. 35 in gaza alone during that israel response. according to the committee protect journalists, which notes this is th highest total of any rece conflict. he led that, quote, the deadliest month for journalists since they began gathering data in 1992. last, week palestinian reporter broke down as he learned of a loss of his colleague, live on the air. >> [speaking in a global language] >> gaza is the most dangerous place in the world to be a journalist right now. it's not even close. since no foreign journalists are allowed in unless they are embedded with the israeli army, these local journalists often employed by freelancers for the western media are off in the eyes and ears of the world. -- honest reporting circulated the names in at least one case pictures of local palestinian journalists who documented the hasse talk. and all that outright accused them of having for knowledge of the attack and being collaborators in it. those accusations were empty applied and spread over social media. some outlets like cnn shows to cut ties with one of the freelancers after amish reporting -- for we don't know the context. others, like the new york times, who's freelance were targeted, issued a strong rebuke, quote, the accusation that anyone at the new york times had advanced knowledge of the hamas attacks or accompanied hamas terrorists during the attacks is untrue and outrageous. it is reckless to make such allegations, putting our journalists on the ground in israel and gaza at risk. we also want to speak in defense of freelance photo journalists working in conflict areas, whose jobs often require them to rush into danger to provide firsthand witness accounts and to document important news. this is the essential role of a free press in wartime. but since that implication, several prominent israeli politicians, the one knew about the attack, would be treeless like terrorists who are targeted for violence. those voices include war cabinet minister, benny gantz. republican senate -- jumped in on the whole thing, writing a letter to the new york times with a veiled threat about employees in the newspaper facing criminal prosecution. citing those reports that their journalists were embedded with hamas. and then last night, through the associated press, we learned that honest reporting, the group making these claims, quote, had no evidence to back it up. the suggestion. that any of the journalists implied were hamas collaborators had any for knowledge of the attacks. the context of the worst death toll of working reporters i've seen in my life, this is unfathomably reckless from everyone involved. the reason war reporting is so crucially important is because as the old cliché goes, truth is the first casualty of war. in the era of social media, this takes on new meaning, as were subjected to an endless stream of images and information and propaganda. take one notable example, hamas leadership. in an interview after interview, is either tried to deny their own atrocities on october 7th or seated false stories. the head of hezbollah recently gave a speech where he claimed that it was israeli soldiers who killed their own citizens. that they were the ones really responsible for what happened. that, and other conspiracy theories, have now predictably blossomed online with all the attempting grainy video to light. the atrocities committed by hamas are undeniable, not just because of the eyewitness accounts to them, but also because hamas make sure that seemingly everyone committing the atrocities recorded for posterity. though there will be those who dispute the slaughter, the slaughter is not in dispute. there will be those who dispute the abject misery and death of gaza as people, but that is not dispute. in fact, earlier this week, a senior biden administration officials said the death toll in palestinians in the gaza strip is likely far higher than the 10,000 being reported by the gaza health ministry. journalism at its best makes us reckon with terrible truths. and among the many, many, many lies, were the warning of this war, i want to honor those fellow members of our profession, who have paid the ultimate price of bearing witness for all of us. i'm also a library board trustee, a mother of two, and a grandmother of two. basically, i thought that my memory wasn't as good as it had been. i needed all the help i could get. i saw the commercials for prevagen. i started taking it. and it helped! i noticed my memory was better. there was definite improvement. i've been taking prevagen for a little over five years. prevagen. at stores everywhere without a prescription. my mental health was much better. but i struggled with uncontrollable movements called td, tardive dyskinesia. td can be caused by some mental health meds. and it's unlikely to improve without treatment. i felt like my movements were in the spotlight. #1-prescribed ingrezza is the only td treatment for adults that's always one pill, once daily. ingrezza 80 mg is proven to reduce td movements in 7 out of 10 people. people taking ingrezza can stay on most mental health meds. ingrezza can cause depression, suicidal thoughts, or actions in patients with huntington's disease. pay close attention to and call your doctor if you become depressed, have sudden changes in mood, behaviors, feelings, or have thoughts of suicide. don't take ingrezza if you're allergic to its ingredients. ingrezza may cause serious side effects, including angioedema, potential heart rhythm problems, and abnormal movements. report fevers, stiff muscles, or problems thinking as these may be life threatening. sleepiness is the most common side effect. it's nice. people focus more on me. ask your doctor about #1 prescribed, once-daily ingrezza. ♪ ingrezza ♪ ♪♪ we're not writers, but we help you shape your financial story. ♪♪ we're not an airline, but our network connects global businesses across nearly 160 markets. ♪♪ we're not a startup, but our innovation labs use new technologies to help keep your information secure. ♪♪ we're not architects, but we help build stronger communities. ♪♪ we're not just any bank. we are citi. ♪♪ >> one of the most vivid eyewitness accounts from the october 7th hamas attack came from i journalist named, amir tibon. he survived ten hours sheltering in a safe room with his two young daughters in a kibbutz near the border with gaza. he's now back at work at the haaretz newspaper, documenting the aftermath of the attack in the ongoing war. and amir tibon joins me now from tel aviv israel. amir, thank you for making time for us. i want to just start by asking, after the extremely harrowing experience you had, how you and your daughters, and your family are doing? >> hi chris, thank you so much for having me. it's been just over a month, and it's still a difficult experience for us as a family, and for the community that we belong to. we lost 14 neighbors and friends on that day. and we still have five members of my community who are hostages in gaza, including a 15 year old and nine year old girls, two sisters who are now in the hands of hamas. so while we are happy to be alive, and slowly trying to get back to our lives, this event is still with us. we think about it every day. we feel it every day. especially for the presence of our hostages in gaza. >> one more question, i know you're in tel aviv, i know that the communities at the border, the kibbutz is, in sderot, and other places that were the site of the attacks, have basically been evacuated. is everyone living in different places? is that still just essentially an anti buffer zone now? >> yes. all the border area around gaza is completely empty. the same thing is happening along israel's northern border with lebanon. we have right now, in israel, about 150,000 internal refugees. people who had to leave their homes because of the ongoing fighting with hamas in the south, and with hezbollah in the north. my community was evacuated to another kibbutz in north central israel. and we are on and off over there. with the childre, and we are seeing what is happening in gaza. we are also a huge amount of people have left their homes. on our side of the border, it's also completely empty right now. this is just one big war zone. the communities like mine are sitting and waiting. we have no idea when we will be able to go back home, it will probably take a very long time. >> you talked about the focus on the hostages, particularly the 15 and nine year old, i can't even begin to imagine what that's like for their family. can you talk a little bit about the internal dynamics around the hostages. there's not unanimity around hostage families, how they feel about netanyahu, or the war. there's been some fractures, there's some reporting that there was the possibility of hostage release in exchange for some kind of cease-fire, there's reporting today that there are active talks in qatar about that. what has been the public conversation inside israel about that question? >> so, there is one uniting factor, which is that of course we blame hamas for this unspeakable, and despicable cruelty of taking women and children, and fathers and husbands, as hostages, and that's a uniting factor. but there is a disagreement about how israel should handle this. because in the past, is real agreed to all kinds of deals with organizations like hamas, in which we released a lot of prisoners, palestinian, convicted of terrorism and murder, and things like that. from our presence, in return for the array lease of israeli soldiers. the most famous was the galoshes chile deal. about 12 years ago, in which prime minister netanyahu agreed to release one family of palestinian soldiers for one israeli soldier. right now we have more than 200 hostages in gaza. where does that put us with hamas? it's a very delicate issue. i do want to thank president biden, and secretary blinken for the very hard work that i know they've been doing in recent weeks. to secure the release of as many hostages as possible. the first two, that were released, they were american citizens who came to visit my kibbutz. kibbutz not halos, and we're could napped from there, a mother and a daughter. the daughter and granddaughter of a very dear woman in our community. and i know that the president worked very hard with qatar, had the original actors to secure their release. what we want to see is as many of the hostages eventually all of them, released, and coming back home. i know that the administration is putting a lot of hard work into it. and, yes inside israel, it is a controversial question. how far should we go? i believe, personally, this should be the first and foremost number one commitment of the state of israel. because these people were betrayed on the morning of october 7th, the government did not protect them from the vicious terrorists of the other side of the border. the military failed. the government failed. they were taken hostage. and our first commitment, before anything else, should be to bring them back home. even if it is with a difficult price. >> finally, for you, amir, there's a unity government right now in israel. a war cabinet. obviously, benjamin netanyahu, is still the prime minister of israel. and the polling is remarkable. it just seems very widespread anger with him. and disapproval. it's not like george w. bush after 9/11. i guess it's premature now for political conversations about what happens next, but i can also start to see them bubbling up as i read the israeli press. >> i agreed that right now the most important focus is winning the war, defeating hamas. because what hamas did on october 7th is something that should never be forgotten. should never be forgiven. the murder of civilian families, children, babies, cases of rape and torture, and again, this very, very cruel and just inhumane idea of taking young babies and children as hostages, we have to defeat hamas. but it's true that we also have our own internal conversation about the failures of the government in this event. and as someone who spent ten hours in a dark room with no food, and no electricity, with two very young girls, three and a half years old, and one and a half years old, and told them they have to be completely silent, because there are people on the other side, outside was very dangerous. i feel that anger just as well. i'm never going to let it go. we will never, ever allow anyone with involved in this failure to hold power ever again. but first of, all right, now the most important thing that there is unity about is the need to defeat hamas so that this never happens again. >> amir tibon, thank you so much for sharing time tonight. i really, really appreciate it. >> thank you for having me. >> that is all in for this week, alex wagner tonight starts right now. with my friend ayman mohyeldin, and for alex, good evening amen. good evening, chris. a very telling interview there by a mirror to bone, a journalist but at the same time you can hear he is clearly speaking as an israeli citizen. i thought it was illuminating to hear him talk about the pressure there is in israeli society to release these hostages. and here we are almost five weeks into this war, and that debate is still swirling as to whether that is the main objective. he was saying also to destroy hamas. i thought it was quite telling. >> really interesting. possibly tension between those two, part of the difficult navigation that is happening. meetings happening in qatar even the last few days,