Transcripts For CNNW CNN Newsroom 20110929

400,000 since april. that is too high. economists say to make a dent in the unemployment rate. federal authorities have charged a young massachusetts physics grad in a terror plot. agents say rezwan ferdaus planned to use remote control airlines to hit the u.s. capitol and the pentagon. they would have been filled with a plastic explosive. the fbi says that they arrested him, he's an american citizen, after a lengthy undercover operation. john mccain leading a delegation of republican senators on a trip to libya today. the group has been meeting with libya's national transition council, the rebel leaders that drove moammar gadhafi from power. a spokesman says the council knows gadhafi's general location. senator mccain talked to cnn from tripoli. >> i think that the people of libya, the ones that i've talked to, would like to catch him alive. they would like to see him on trial for the horrendous crimes that he has committed. every few days they come across another grave. some of them with hundreds of bodies in it. there's no doubt that this guy was hated by the people of libya and i think they would like to see him brought to justice more than they would like to see him dead. >> gadhafi is facing a long list of war crimes charges. if captured, he would go before the international criminal court in the hague. >> the paramedics that rushed to michael jackson's home the day he died are expected on the stand today. court gets under way in about 45 minutes or so. jackson's doctor, conrad murray, is on trial for jackson's death and prosecutors say he gave jackson an overdose of anesthesia and other drugs. our cnn's dr. sanjay gupta explains what the defense strategy is. >> they may think after conrad murray left the room, that michael jackson had in fact been feigning sleep or plays possum. he got out of bed and went and took more tablets. took eight of these 2 milligram tablets of that and injected more propofol into his system. and then went back to bed. they say that michael jackson actually self-administered the anti-anxiety medication and propofol after feigning sleep in front of dr. conrad murray. >> along with paramedics, jackson's chef and security chief are expected to testify today. we'll have portions of that live on cnn. in italy lawyers for american amanda knox are giving final arguments at her appeals trial. she's expected to address the jury on saturday. a verdict could come as soon as monday. knox and her boyfriend were convicted of slitting her roommate's throat in what prosecutors describe as part ritual. no evidence convicts them to the crime their lawyers say. legal experts say it could take months to extradite george wright to the united states. he escaped prison in 1970. two years later wright allegedly hijacked a delta flight, flew to algeria and vanished. on monday after 41 years on the run, police arrested him in portugal. wright was in prison for killing new jersey gas station owner walter patterson in 1962. the victim's daughter wants him back behind bars. >> it was initial shock and then i get upset about things and then after thinking about it, it was more like a weight had been lifted. >> police found wright living in a picturesque village in portugal living a normal life with a wife and two kids. food inspectors are fanning out to make sure that supermarkets have pulled bad cantaloupe. melons from a colorado farm are contaminated with what is called listeria. it's a bacteria that has now killed 13 people. 72 people have gotten sick across 18 states. experts think that more people are going to get sick. it can take up to three weeks for listeria symptoms to even show up. to sports, four teams, three amazing games, two playoff spots on the line. closing day for major league baseball season. it was a rather wild one. in the american league, the tampa bay rays were in the hole. they won the game in dramatic fashion. the red sox completed historic september collapse with a loss to the orioles and will sit out the playoffs. in the national league, the atlanta braves were up eight games at the beginning of the month and lost last night in a 13 inning nail biter. that combined with st. louis win put the cardinals in the playoffs. more details now on one of the big stories of the day. the involuntary manslaughter trial of michael jackson's doctor. the third day of testimony gets under way this hour. we expect to hear more about dr. conrad murray's actions the morning that jackson died. cnn's ted rowlands is outside of the courthouse in los angeles. give us a sense, a preview, of who is scheduled to testify today and what are they likely to talk about? >> reporter: well, it's a big day for prosecutors. they'll start with the first person other than conrad murray to see michael jackson unresponsive. he was the first one to walk into the room and he was the run th one taking directions from murray. prosecutors will lay the groundwork to set the scene for jurors but also to basically critique murray's actions specifically. murray asked alvarez to call 911 but it was only after he asked alvarez to help him gather bottles of propofol. very damning because it looks to consciousness of guilt on murray's standpoint. once 911 was called, murray was performing cpr on a bed instead of a flat surface which is normally the protocol. he asked alvarez if he knew cpr and also going to the prosecution's theory that murray was just in over his head all of the way through this whole process and that he was incompetent. this is a theme they hammered out in their opening statements. alv alvarez will help with that. the defense will try to hammer away at alvarez. then it goes to the chef. this is the woman that the only prosecution witness really that has any sense of time. every other witness says this was so chaotic, i have no idea what time it was, the chef, however, knew exactly what time it was because she was waiting to deliver a smoothie if you will, a fruit drink to michael jackson. she said she kept looking at her watch so prosecutors will use her to time stamp all of the things going on in the house. they're using phone records but they'll also use this chef. it will be compelling. they may get to the first responders today, the ambulance folks, the emts depending on how long the other witnesses go. >> we heard emotional testimony yesterday about jackson's children that they were crying and that they were trying to be comforted here and there were efforts to revive jackson. i imagine this is going to be pretty tough for the family to sit through today. >> reporter: we'll get more of that. one of the things that alvarez testified to in the preliminary hearing is murray told alvarez to call prince, michael jackson's oldest son, up to the room. he'll detail that. and then this chef also details the children. she did in the preliminary hearing what they were doing and how she helped shield them from michael jackson. yesterday was talk of michael jackson's daughter curled up in a ball in the house. the family has already arrived. mr. and mrs. jackson have arrived and it will be tough day for them as well in court as it was yesterday. >> we don't expect the children are going to be there, do we, ted? >> reporter: no. they're on the witness list but there's no indication that either side is going to call them. they really don't bring anything to the case. it doesn't look like either side would dare bring one of those children in because jurors could easily turn on whoever makes a child get up on the stand. >> all right. ted rowlands, thank you. we'll follow all of that as the testimony is live. we'll bring that to you. here's your chance to talk back on one of the big stories of the day. today's question is herman cain fair when he says that african-americans were brainwashed? carol costello has more from new york. this is very, very controversial. we heard him talk to wolf yesterday about this because he believes that all african-americans are just voting democratic and in his view it's brainwashing. >> absolutely. you're going to hear it for yourself in just a minute. republican presidential contender herman cain hit a nerve. >> why is the republican party basically poisoned for so many african-americans? >> because many african-americans have been brainwashed into not being open-minded, not even considering a conservative point of view. i have received some of that same vitrial. >> rowland martin called the remarks stupid. martin says there hasn't been any real effort on the part of this year's republican candidates to actually reach out to the black community. historically african-americans don't fully embrace or did not fully embrace the democratic party until the 1960s when a democratic president pushed through the civil rights act. today according to james peterson from lehigh university, when republicans talk about cutting things like entitlements and being tough on immigration, african-americans see a subtle form of racism there. it's a complicated issue. the talk back issue, was herman cain fair when he said african-american voters are brainwashed? go to facebook.com/carolcnn. >> i think you'll get a lot of responses on that one, carol. a lot of frustrated -- we'll see what happens but i guarantee you will get responses on that one. all right. thanks. here's a rundown of some of the stories we're covering first. what should you look out for when buying a cantaloupe? we'll talk to an expert about protecting yourself from the listeria outbreak. and a man is charged with planning to pack these model airplanes with explosives and fly them into government buildings. find out how the fbi found out about this alleged plot. then, more details from the moments before michael jackson died. they are revealed on the stand. and later, sneakers that promise to firm up your butt there but now the government says reebox was deceiving its customers. [ male announcer ] this is lara. her morning begins with arthritis pain. that's a coffee and two pills. the afternoon tour begins with more pain and more pills. the evening guests arrive. back to sore knees. back to more pills. the day is done but hang on... her doctor recommended aleve. just 2 pills can keep arthritis pain away all day with fewer pills than tylenol. this is lara who chose 2 aleve and fewer pills for a day free of pain. and get the all day pain relief of aleve in liquid gels. they can end up with shaving irritation. ♪ get gillette irritation defense shave gel and gillette fusion proglide razor to help defend against five signs of shaving irritation. ♪ try gillette fusion proglide and the irritation defense line. help defend your skin. ♪ i tell you what i can spend. i do my best to make it work. i'm back on the road safely. and i saved you money on brakes. that's personal pricing. the fda is trying to make sure that you and your local grocery store have gotten rid of cantaloupe linked to the deadly listeria outbreak. health officials are double-checking stores for any contaminated fruit. the bacteria is blamed for at least 13 deaths. that's the most fatalities from illnesses caused by tainted food in a decade. authorities have traced the listeria outbreak to cantaloupes grown in colorado. it has now spread to 18 states. joining us to explain what listeria is and how you can protect yourself is dr. david achison. he's a former chief medical officer with the fda and, doctor, thank you for joining us. let's start with the basics here. we're not talking hift e ining we're talking listeria. what is it? >> it's a bacteria that gets on the surface of foods and can get inside foods and it can grow in your refrigerator and if you're a high-risk person if you are pregnant or elderly and immune compromised, you're a serious risk of major health consequences if you get exposed to it. >> what are symptoms? how would you know that you actually have been exposed to this bacteria? >> let's divide that into two parts. first, the two high risk groups are pregnant women and elderly immune compromised. if you are pregnant, you could have little symptom. flu-type feelings. minor fever. don't feel right. it doesn't do much to impact the mom but it can be devastating to the baby particularly if you are in the second or third trimester of pregnancy. there are symptoms that are minor. if you had exposure and you have a bit of flu-like illness, get yourself to the doctor. if you are elderly or immune compromised, the systems are more profound. fever, feeling really unwell. it can infect the brain so you get headaches, youan adversion to light. get yourself to a physician. >> this is treatable? >> it is absolutely treatable. if you get in early, it responds to antibiotics and it's treatable. having said that unfortunately it does have a pretty high mortality rate. people do die from this because they don't get in early enough and get on some treatment. it's a nasty illness. >> we have a cantaloupe here. you know what's surprising is this has such a thick skin but most people would be surprised to learn that you really should wash this outside and wash it thoroughly before you cut into it. what's the best way to protect yourself from food-borne illness when it comes to cantaloupe and other vegetables, fruits? >> great question. it's an important one in this context. number one, look at those cantaloupes that you purchase at the supermarket. are they bruised or damaged or have holes? that's important. bugs on the surface can get inside the cantaloupe. we love that sweet, juicy meat for ourselves so do bacteria. they love growing inside the cantaloupe. if it's damaged, don't purchase it. once you get it home and you're ready to consume it, scrub it under controlledcold running water. when you chop it up and cut it up on a clean cutting board. don't mix it up with your raw poultry or raw fish. get it in the refrigerator and consume it within 24 to 48 hours. that's the best way to try to safeguard against a problem. >> all right, doctor. thank you so much. we appreciate it. >> pleasure. thank you. >> thanks. the listeria outbreak in cantaloupe is the latest high profile case of illnesses that are linked to tainted food. we've also had recalls recently of ground beef and ground turkey. over the past few years we've seen huge recalls of eggs, peanut butter and spinach. attorney bill marler is with the food safety law firm that represents people suing over outbreaks from tainted food. he joins us from seattle. thanks for joining us. first of all, is there something that is broken in the food system? >> i think, you know, as the doctor said, listeria is a very difficult bacteria to deal with. it's a real problem for industry. if they're not on top of things it can get into the food supply and your refrigerator and sicken and kill. with the food safety modernization act passed last year, all of us in food safety both from the industry side and consumer side are really hopeful that we're going to see a downturn in food-borne illness. a lot of that work still needs to be done and a lot of it needs to be funded so i think time will tell. >> bill, the fact that this happened so rarely when we talk about the serious situation, should we take comfort for the most part that we feel safe with the foods that we eat? >> well, if you're a betting person, i suppose. cdc says 48 million americans are sickened every year from a food-borne illness. there are 3,000 deaths. it's estimated to cost the u.s. economy about $150 billion a year. so it's a big problem that requires an investment and requires our diligence. >> all right. sounds like it's still a very serious problem. we appreciate your insights there. thank you. >> thank you very much. reebox claims that some shoes can make your bottom just a little bit firmer. let's see if you bought those shoes, you may want to get your money back. we'll tell you why. we're watching a big rebound on wall street today. carter evans is at the new york stock exchange. what are we seeing right now? >> reporter: we got good numbers. we're off our highs but things are keeping -- we're holding for good numbers right now. here's what's going on. let's talk about the numbers that we're getting in today and the reports that we're getting in today. we got a report in on our gross domestic product showing that our economy grew 1.3% in the most recent quarter. it's more than expected. we also found out the unemployment claims last week fell a lot more than expected. down below that 400,000 mark. we've only seen that twice in the last five months or so. that's good news as well. we did find out just a little while ago that pending home sales are on the decline. they fell in august by a little more than 1% but most of that due to hurricane irene. >> all right. are you ready for this story? are you ready for this one? >> i love it. i love it. >> you've been warned. those reebox shoes supposed to firm up your butt, a waste of money. do you have a pair of those by the way? i got to ask you that first of all, carter? >> reporter: i don't. i don't. my wife has a pair. not of this particular brand but another brand but here's the deal. easy tone and run tone shoes by reebox. the federal trade commission says the advertisements are deceptive. reebox is claiming and you look at one of the commercials right now, reebox claim they tone your butt and your thighs more than other shoes. other ads were more specific saying it gave your butt 28% more strength. i'm not exactly sure how they measured that. >> we're not going to get into how they measured that. but your wife maybe should get that refund, huh? >> reporter: i'm sorry. i couldn't hear you. let me explain to you what the option is here if you are trying to get money back. you definitely can. you head to the ftc's website. here's the thing. it's not really clear how much you'll get back. they have a $25 million fund for this set up right now. it really depends on how many people file claims as far as getting money back you just head to the ftc website. what reebox says about this, we stand by our claims. these shoes do strengthen your butt and thighs but we settled to avoid a long lawsuit. >> all right. fair enough, carter. we'll see if your wife gets the refund or not. thanks. here's your chance to choose what story you would like to see. florida's invasive reptiles. the exotic pet trade is bringing a lot of creatures to the united states that are not from here and they are being let loose. we'll tell you about how it is impacting the environment. text 2 for france's post-it wars. we'll show you the art work. and text 3 for cuba cars for sales. cubans can't buy and sell cars freely. we'll tell you what happens to those classic 1950s buicks. you can vote by texting 22360. winning story is going to air next hour. the fbi says that it foiled a terror plot aimed at blowing up the pentagon and the capitol. model airplanes were part of that plot. we'll go live to washington to find out how the attacks were going to be carried out. or creates another laptop bag or hires another employee, it's not just good for business. it's good for the entire community. at bank of america, we know the impact that local businesses have on communities. that's why we extended $7.8 billion to small businesses across the country so far this year. because the more we help them, the more we help make opportunity possible. (rawhen an investmentrsation) lacks discipline, it's never this obvious. introducing investment discipline etfs from russell. visit russelletfs.com r a prospectus, containing the investment objectives, risks, charges, expenses and other information. read and consider it carefully before investing. the healthcare law gives us powerful tools to fight it... to investigate it... ...prosecute it... and stop criminals. our senior medicare patrol volunteers... are teaching seniors across the country... ...to stop, spot, and report fraud. you can help. guard your medicare card. don't give out your card number over the phone. call to report any suspected fraud. we're cracking down on medicare fraud. let's make medicare stronger for all of us. toy planes and a new terror threat. washington landmarks now the target. also ahead, details from the manslaughter trial of michael jackson's doctor and the story behind this haunting photo taken at a war memorial in hawaii. now, more on the bizarre terror plot uncovered by the fbi. a massachusetts man is accused of planning to bomb the capitol and the pentagon with model airplanes packed with plastic explosives. our cnn's brian todd is live from washington. brian, first of all, how do we suspect that this plan was going to be carried out? >> reporter: according to an affidavit filed by federal law enforcement authorities yesterday, mr. ferdaus was planning on packing model airplanes with explosives and a flying them by remote control into the capitol and pentagon according to an affidavit filed yesterday by law enforcement. they said that he had pretty solid plans in place to purchase these planes. there's one indication in the affidavit he may have purchased at least one of them and they actually federal authorities gave us pictures of these planes that he was going to use. one is a model of the f-4 phantom fighter and another is the f-86 sabre fighter jet. these models are one-tenth the size of the actual aircraft and according to federal authorities, he was going to pack them with explosives and fly them into the capitol and pentagon by remote control using them almost like drones and pinpoint these locations with gps and also he had a second plan kind of a coordinated plan in place to bring in a ground operative for a ground attack. he had plans to bring two teams of people at least six people in to fire on these buildings while people evacuated them. now, there's no indication on any of these documents or from federal officials separately of any other conspirators in this plot but they say that he did plan on flying these planes into these buildings with explosives and then firing on people as they tried to evacuate. >> do we know how agents found out about this plot? how do they discover this was going to happen? >> reporter: we're trying to get indications of that. we do know they know about other plotting he had done according to what they say in the affidavit. other plotting he had done as far back as last year. they say that last year he started to come up with these plots and wanted to convert cell phones into switches for ieds and that he had worked with people who he thought were al qaeda operatives but who were really undercover fbi agents and to pass them these switches for ieds he hoped would be used overseas to kill american soldiers. now, some of the plotting according to these documents went back as far as last year. we do know that they were monitoring him and working with undercover agents as early as january of this year. >> all right. thank you. appreciate it. i want to go to fran townsend. a member of the cia external advisory committee. fran, you hear about this potential threat here. how credible was it, do you think? >> the thing that strikes one is the level of details planning. this individual, this lone wolf had the intent to carry it out and some capability. he had a physics degree from northwestern university in the united states. he rented a storage facility. he had gone to washington to do surveillance and understand distances from the park to the targets. and so this was a guy who was very serious about the plan even if he hadn't gotten to the point of recruiting the six individuals he wanted to do with him. >> how easy would it have been to carry out this and for someone to be a copycatter. >> the difficult piece is getting your hands on the c-4. there are trip wires to try to track the purchase of c-4. you need a legitimate purpose to be able to purchase it. it's not clear how he thought he was going to get c-4. >> and i want to turn on another subject here. the chair of the joint chiefs of staff, admiral mike mullen in an interview with our own fareed zakaria repeated claims that he believes that pakistan spy surface is in cahoots with a terrorist group in launching attacks on military forces, american forces in afghanistan. here's how he put it, fran. >> do you believe you're overstating the link between the pakistanis and the network? >> the intent is to focus on this like a laser. it's been there for a long time. unless the pakistani leadership takes action, it will continue to be there and that support will continue to be there. i don't try to make the case that this is a light switch that you can throw on and off. there are elements i think of the isi that are very active. >> so off the record behind the scenes, i speak with military, white house officials who say pakistan is a big, big problem especially the spy agency in working with him. why do we suppose that mullen has been outspoken about this? we know he's leaving his position. is this a good idea? is he actually saying publicly what many people are feeling privately? >> i think admiral mullen is both saying publicly what many people across multiple administrations have felt. i think he feels freer to speak. he leaves his position at the end of the week. he feels personally betrayed by the pakistanis. i don't think there's a single u.s. government official who has spent as much time working with the pakistani government as admiral mullen. i think he feels personally betrayed and loyalty to soldiers he represents in harm's way being injured or killed. >> the white house is distancing itself from mullen's remarks but it looks like good cop, bad cop strategy. >> i think that's right. what you'll see now is admiral mullen will move on. you'll have marty dempsey assume the role and the administration will have to pick up the pieces but sent a message to pakistan they will not tolerate this and are willing to go public by having admiral mullen do it with his departure they can turn their attention to trying to repair the relationship because we need them as counterterrorism partners. >> all right. fran townsend, thank you so much. good to see you. a reminder to vote for choose the news winner for the story that you would like to see. text one for florida's invasive reptiles. rare reptiles from other countries being let loose causing environmental concerns right here. text two for france post-it wars. post-its being used to make art around french business windows. check that out and text 3 for cuba's cars for sales. the law restricting car sales is changing. what will happen to the classics? that winning story will air next hour. the arizona memorial in hawaii draws thousands of tourists every day. this photograph will be a haunting reminder of their visit. we are business in america. and every day we awake to the same challenges. but at prudential we're helping companies everywhere find new solutions to manage risk, capital and employee benefits, so american business can get on with business. ♪ a look at some of the other stories we're watching. a heavy rainstorm sent flash floods gushing through this neighborhood in flanders, new jersey, 40 miles south of newark. cars, some with people inside, were swept down the road. one home lost a two-car garage and a utility shed. this budget rental truck is being used as a getaway car after a bank robbery in grand rapids, michigan. police say a man and a woman inside the truck threw the money into the street before the truck was stopped by spikes that were placed on the road. both suspects are in custody. in hawaii, a woman says that both she and her husband were struck by a picture she took at the arizona memorial in pearl ha hasho sh harbor showing what appears to be a man's face under the water. cnn has not been able to verify if that photo is original or has been altered. court reconvenes in the trial of michael jackson's doctor. we'll tell you what's next in the trial of dr. conrad murray and have a recap of yesterday's dramatic testimony as well. high cholesterol is a major factor. but these other health factors can also contribute to plaque buildup. so if you have high cholesterol and any of these other health factors... it's even more important to get your cholesterol where your doctor wants. talk to your doctor about crestor. when diet and exercise alone aren't enough... adding crestor can lower bad cholesterol by up to 52%. and crestor is proven to slow plaque buildup in arteries. crestor is not right for everyone, like people with liver disease... or women who are nursing, pregnant, or may become pregnant. simple blood tests will check for liver problems. tell your doctor about other medicines you're taking... or if you have muscle pain or weakness. that could be a sign of serious side effects. ask your doctor about high cholesterol... plaque buildup... and if crestor is right for you. if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. reminder to vote for choose the news winner. text 1 for florida's invasive reptiles. exotic pets are being let loose and the environment could be in danger. text 2 for france post-it wars. post-its are being called art all over french business windows and text 3 for cuba cars for sales. for years the country has been driving classic american cars from before castro's revolution and now a new law will change that. winning story will air in the next hour. day three of the trial of michael jackson's doctor is about to get under way shortly. we expect to hear from members of jackson's staff and paramedics about what happened the morning that jackson died. we're keeping a an eye on the court and we will take you there live as it unfolds. witnesses describe a chaotic scene after jackson was discovered unresponsive in his bedroom back in june of 2009. cnn's randi kaye recaps day two of the trial. >> reporter: you're looking at the bedroom where michael jackson took his last breath shown inside the courtroom. one of jackson's security guards had been called to the house when jackson stopped breathing and described the scene for the jury. >> when you came around to the far side of the bed, what was conrad murray doing? >> he appeared to be administering cpr and he appeared very nervous and he was on his side and he was sweating. >> at that time did you see michael jackson's face and his full body? >> yes. >> and what did you observe about his face at that time? >> that his eyes were open and that his mouth was slightly open. >> did he appear to be dead? >> yes. >> mohammad said at one point dr. murray asked jackson security guards if they knew how to revive someone. >> had conrad murray asked you and alberto alvarez if you knew cpr? >> yes. >> did you see alberto go over and assist dr. murray with cpr? >> yes. >> reporter: by the time mohammad had arrived, 911 had already been called. but 911 was not the first phone call conrad murray made when jackson stopped breathing. in court, new insight into murray's state of mind from jackson's personal assistant. he painted a picture of a doctor on the edge. on june 25th, 2009, williams received a frantic voice message from murray which was played in court. that message was left after michael jackson had suffered cardiac arrest. murray gave no indication of that on the message only saying jackson had "a bad reaction." murray called williams and not 911. >> were you asked to call 911? >> no, sir. >> did you upon hearing that message call dr. murray? >> yes, sir. >> did he ask for you to call 911. >> no, sir. >> reporter: in court williams was also asked about murray's strange behavior at the hospital as news spread the king of pop was dead. >> what was the request of conrad murray? >> he said there's some cream in michael's room or house, i believe room, that he wouldn't want the world to know about. he requested that i or someone give him a ride back to the house. >> did you agree to take conrad murray back to the house? >> no, sir. >> reporter: williams told the court he was so spooked by murray's behavior, he asked jackson security to lock up the house and not allow murray back inside. but defense attorney ed chernoff pointed out that williams waited months before sharing his concerns with authorities. >> mr. williams, the first time you told the police about dr. murray wanting to get some cream was on august 31st, 2009, correct? >> yes, sir. >> this was over two months after michael jackson had died? >> reporter: williams told the jury that he frequently saw oxygen tanks at jackson's house. oxygen is required by the fda to be on hand when propofol is being used in case the patient has to be resuscitated. >> can you describe what you personally saw in that regard? >> it was normal for oxygen tanks to be there and if they were there, would bring them to the bottom of the stairs and the chef or children would bring them up but it was normal to see the oxygen tanks the last few months. >> that would be the period of time that you knew conrad murray was coming on an almost nightly basis? >> reporter: even with all those oxygen tanks, michael jackson never had a chance. he died so quickly he never even closed his eyes. randi kaye, cnn, los angeles. >> and court just started in day three of the conrad murray trial. we're going to monitor the testimony and bring you live coverage as it happens. for complete trial conferenvera throughout the day, to an into our sister network, hln. is herman cain fair when he says that african-americans were brainwashed? joseph said that african-americans can choose what they want. they're not being brainwashed. you've been sounding off on our "talk back" question. carol costello has your responses. carol, i imagine they're probably pretty opinionated. yes? >> yeah, i think we got 100 responses in 3.7 seconds. people feel strongly about this one. >> you knew it. >> the "talk back" question today was, herman cain fair when he said african-americans were brainwashed? this -- african-americans are not brainwashed to be voting democratic. it is that many of us are weary when we see many republicans make subtle and not-so-subtle sometimes racist remarks when it comes to their stances, especially now when talking about an african-american president. carl -- there is america and he is entitled to his opinion. i give him credit for stated what he feels. and this -- i resent that statement and any comment that supports it. if anything he is brainwashed to actually believe his own words. and this -- most democrats work for regular people including the african-american community and not like corporations like republicans -- oops, i forgot, corporations are people, aren't they? keep the conversation going, facebook.com/carolcnn. i'll be back with you in about 15 minutes. >> thank you, carol. political showdown between florida and south carolina. we'll explain what the fighting is all about in our political ticker update next. ♪ [ dog barks ] [ birds chirping ] ♪ [ mechanical breathing ] [ engine turns over ] ♪ [ male announcer ] the all-new volkswagen passat. a new force in the midsize category. ♪ we've been dedicated to helping our students succeed in america's most in demand careers. we provide you with instructors who are professionals working in the fields they teach. it's an education designed for today, from a university that holds the same level of institutional accreditation as america's top schools. experience the university of phoenix difference at phoenix.edu. [ woman ] my heart medication isn't some political game. [ man ] our retirement isn't a simple budget line item. [ man ] i worked hard. i paid into my medicare. [ man ] and i earned my social security. [ woman ] now, instead of cutting waste and loopholes, washington wants to cut our benefits? that wasn't the agreement. [ male announcer ] join the members of aarp and tell washington to stop cuts to our medicare and social security benefits. her morning begins with arthritis pain. that's a coffee and two pills. the afternoon tour begins with more pain and more pills. the evening guests arrive. back to sore knees. back to more pills. the day is done but hang on... her doctor recommended aleve. just 2 pills can keep arthritis pain away all day with fewer pills than tylenol. this is lara who chose 2 aleve and fewer pills for a day free of pain. and get the all day pain relief of aleve in liquid gels. it's punch line time. best from last night's late night comedians, conan o'brien takes a jab at president obama an the economy. >> president obama keeping busy. president obama has invited the 1985 chicago bears to the white house. yeah. he asked them to bring a 1985 game ball, their 1985 uniforms, and the 1985 economy. it is a political showdown, not over the candidates but actually the calendar. jim acosta, part of the best political team on television from the political desk in washington. hey, jim. so the fight's now over the primary calendar. >> yeah. i mean this is sort of a war between the states, if you will. as you remember, yesterday we reported that florida is expected to move up its primary date to january 31st and folks at home may be scratching their heads and wondering why does this matter to me? well, it matters a great deal because the entire primary and caucus calendar, because of this one action, could be thrown completely up into the air. earlier this morning south carolina, which has one of those coveted spots from the republican party to have one of those primary dates in february, they were having a meeting earlier this morning trying to decide whether or not they would try to leapfrog florida and go earlier than florida. the danger in all of this is that all of these states, because they're all trying to leapfrog each other, would somehow push their primary and caucus dates to around christmas and new year's which would really compress the calendar. i mean we're talking we're almost at october right now. but earlier this morning south carolina said they are going to wait until florida makes its final decision tomorrow. so we shall get an answer from florida tomorrow on when they're going to have their primary date. that's probably going to set off a chain reaction. we'll see a lot of other states weighing in on when they'll have their primary caucus states. mitt romney was asked about this up in new hampshire yesterday and he was talking -- he was talking to a newspaper earlier yesterday saying that this may result in primaries and caucuses being held around christmastime. here's what governor romney had to say about this yesterday. >> my expectation is that iowa and new hampshire and for that matter nevada and south carolina will move their calendars such that they are first and that the order the people expect is the order they're going to see and that's what we're prepared for. >> so if everything goes according to plans, the way it is supposed to work, according to the republican party the way they've laid this out, february 6 the iowa caucus, february 14th be the new hampshire primary. then nevada and south carolina would go on february 28th. so we have to wait and see what florida does tomorrow, suzanne. if they move their primary date up to the 31st of january, all of this gets completely thrown up in the air. >> all right, we'll be following all of the twists and turns there, thank you, jim. appreciate it. the latest political news, go to cnnpolitics.com. top of the hour, i'm suzanne malveaux. want to get you up to speed. dr. conrad murray's manslaughter trial resumed just a couple minutes ago. that's in los angeles. two paramedics who tried to revive michael jackson are expected to take the stand today. prosecutors say that murray gave jackson a fatal mix of a powerful anesthetic and other drugs. jackson's head of security, the man who eventually called paramedics, also likely to take the stand today. he is expected to testify that murray scrambled to get pills and vials out of jackson's bedroom before the paramedics arrived. members of jackson's family are in the courtroom. they have attended the trial each day since it began on tuesday. in italy, today lawyers for american amanda knox gave final arguments at her appeals trial. she's expected to address the jury on saturday with a verdict perhaps as early as monday. now knox and her boyfriend were convicted of slitting her roommate's throat. prosecutors describe the crime as part satanic ritual, part orgy. knox' argues argue the conviction should be overturned. dominique strauss-khan went to a paris police station today to confront an accuser. it is common in police investigations in france to do that. a journalist says strauss-khan tried to rape her when she interviewed him back in 2003. police will now file a report with the judge who is going to determine whether or not that case proceeds. now new york prosecutors dropped sexual assault charges against stras khan in august after his accuser's credibility was put in doubt. federal authorities have charged a young massachusetts physics grad in a terror plot. agents say he planned to use remote controlled model airplanes to attack targets in washington. the models would have been filled with a plastic explosive. >> federal authorities say he selected two models, the f-4 phantom, this shown here in this picture provided with the affidavit -- and the f-86 saber. these models are about one-tenth the size of the actual aircraft. his targets according to the charging document, the pentagon and the u.s. capitol. >> the fbi says that it arrested him, an american citizen, after a lengthy undercover operation. less than an hour ago the house approved a measure to keep the government running for all of four days. that's right, four days. the vote came by unanimous consent meaning that the bill passed because nobody objected. the chamber was practically empty, that is because house members are on break this week. lawmakers will come back on tuesday. that's when they are expected to fund the government through mid-november. the number of americans filing their first unemployment claim is at the lowest level in six months. the labor department counts 391,000 applications last week. that is 37,000 fewer than the week before. new claims have been above 400,000 since april. too high, economists say, to make a dent in the unemployment rate. group of republican senators in libya today for talks with the country's new political leadership. the delegation led by senator john mccain. mccain says the libyan people have paid an enormous price for freedom. he says their actions have inspired the world. food inspectors are fanning out today to make sure that supermarkets have pulled bad cantaloupe. that's right, the melons from colorado farm are contaminated with listeria, that is a bacteria and it has killed 13 people. 72 people have gotten sick across 18 states and experts think that more folks are going to get sick. it can take three weeks for listeria symptoms to show up. more now on our lead story. michael jackson's doctor on trial for manslaughter. the third day of dr. conrad murray's trial got under way just a short time ago. today we're going to hear more details about the confusion, the chaos the day that jackson died. cnn's ted rowlands is outside the courthouse in los angeles. ted, give us a preview, who do we expect to see on the stand to testify today? >> reporter: well, suzanne, court started about 15 minutes ago. roberto alvarez is on the stand at this hour. right now he's just detailing for the jury his job function and where he was at the time of jackson's death. alberto alvarez is not only the chief security guard for jackson but he was the first person other than murray to walk into that bedroom and see the chaos while jackson was dying. he's a very important witness for the prosecution because he will testify that when he walked in to that room he saw jackson laying there, murray over him trying to provide cpr and murray, according to alvarez, told him to collect vials of propofol and put them in a bag before he was told to call 911. this is a very important part of the prosecution's case trying to prove that murray not only gave jackson inadequate care by giving him this propofol but then tried to cover it up. he is a very key witness. after he's done we'll hear from the personal chef. she'll detail what she saw during these chaotic moments and then we should hear maybe today or early tomorrow from the first responders, the medical folks that arrived on scene from the ambulance and emt and then a firefighter. but very dramatic testimony so far from -- not so far but expected today from alvarez. so far right now all he's done is really detailed his job function but that should heat up in a matter of minutes. >> ted, we heard emotional testimony yesterday about how jackson's children were just breaking down as they watched people try to revive him. i imagine that that's probably pretty if you have for the family to sit through that kind of testimony. do we expect more of that -- more of the same today? >> yeah. in fact, every day there has been mention at some point during the proceedings of the kids and whatever the kids are mentioned, the jackson family, you can see that physically it is just very difficult for them and for the jurors, too. it's -- it just strikes a chord. they'll show photos of the kids. today we expect to hear from the personal chef when she was called to the room. she made a point of trying to shield the kids from seeing their father laying in this lifeless state. yesterday we heard from a personal assistant who said that paris jackson is his younger daughter, was balled up and it was just so heartbreaking to hear all that. that's the hardest part they say to sit through, and you can see it in the courtroom. >> ted, conrad murray's demeanor. let's talk a little bit about that. what has he been like? has he displayed any type of emotion, any type of remorse here? >> well, he's -- he takes notes throughout the proceedings. early on in the opening statements he actually broke down and cried a little bit while his lawyer was detailing his relationship with jackson but by and large, throughout the proceedings, he doesn't look too much towards the jury. he'll look at witness and he seems to be taking notes, whether he's doodling or actually taking notes is hard to tell from behind him but he seems engaged. he by all means is listening to everything that each witness is saying. >> all right, ted. we'll certainly come back to you and dip in as the events warrant when it heats up there. thanks again, ted. appreciate it. so here's your chance to "talk back" on one of the big stories of the day. today's question is herman cain is being fair when he says african-americans were brainwashed. carol costello has more from new york. carol, what do we know about this story? >> it's a hot topic today, suzanne. republican presidential contender herman cain certainly hit a nerve. >> why is the republican party basically poisoned for so many african-americans? >> because many african-americans have been brainwashed into not being open-minded, not even considering a conservative point of view. i have received some of that same vitriol simply because i am running for the republican nomination as a conservative. so it's just brainwashing and people not being open-minded. >> it does make you wonder, are white working class voters brainwashed because they vote republican? just saying. that's how one political analyst put it. roland martin, a cnn political analyst, went one step farther. he called cain's remarks stupid. it's not that african-americans reject republican outdeals outright -- many african-americans are socially conservative. but martin says there hasn't been any real effort on the part of this year's republican candidates to actually reach out to the black community. as for why historically african-americans vote mostly democratic, they fully embrace the party back in the 1960s when a democratic president lyndon johnson pushed through the civil rights act. today, according to james peterson from lehigh university, when republicans talk about cutting things like entitlements and being tough on immigration, many african-americans see a subtle form of racism there. still, he says, to say black voters never vote republican is simply wrong. it's a complicated issue. so the "talk back" for you today -- was herman cain fair when he said african-american voters are brainwashed? facebook.com/carolcnn. i'll read your comments later this hour. >> sounds like a good discussion, carol. thanks. here's what's ahead on the "rundown." republican senators travel to libya meeting with the nation's new leaders. also, ruthless killer or innocent victim? lawyers for american amanda knox make a final plea for her freedom in italy. plus, a comedian takes a look at why anyone -- why would anyone want to run for president? and finally, they've been around for almost a decade but apple may soon say good-bye to a pair of popular music players. with a manual transmission? because there are those who still believe in the power of a firm handshake. the cadillac cts-v. manual or automatic, that's entirely up to you. we don't just make luxury cars, we make cadillacs. aspercreme breaks the grip, with maximum-strength medicine and no embarrassing odor. break the grip of pain with aspercreme. here's a chance to "choose the news." text 1 for florida's invasive reptiles. the exotic pet trade is bringing a lot of creatures to the united states, not from here. problem is they're being let loose. we'll tell you about how it is impacting the environment. text 2 for france post-it wars. fierce competition over art made out of post-its. yep. some of it's even six or seven floors high. we'll show you. and text 3 for cuba. cars for sale. cubans haven't been able to buy or sell cars freely but it is now all about to change. we'll tell you what happens to all those classic 1950s buicks. vote by texting 22360, text 1 for florida's invasive reptiles. 2 for france post-it wars, or 3, cuba cars for sale. winning story airs ahead. senator john mccain is in libya to meet with the national transitional council today. he is traveling with senators marco rubio, lindsay graham and mark kirk. meanwhile a libyan military spokesman says the council has reliable information that moammar gadhafi is hiding in a tribe -- with a tribe located between niger, algeria, and southern libya. >> i think that the people of libya, the ones that i've toukd talked to would like to catch him alive and see him on trial for the horrendous crimes that he has committed. every few days they come across another grave, some of them with hundreds of bodies in it. there is no doubt that this guy was hated by the people of libya and i think they'd like to see him brought to justice more than they'd like to see him dead. >> meanwhile, libya's rebels are still fighting gadhafi's troops over control of sirte, home to a powerful tribe loyal to gadhafi. cnn's phil black joins us live from outside the town with the latest on that fighting. phil, what happened today? >> well, suzanne, antigadhafi fighters have moved into positions all around the perimeters of this city. they say they're now surrounded entirely but for a few days there's been a lull in the fighting and the reason, they say, is they're trying to give as much of an opportunity as possible for civilians within the city to get out and they are leaving. hundreds of cars a day filled with families are fleeing this city. those we've spoken to say they have been without food, water, electricity, all the basics for weeks now and they would have liked to have left much earlier but many say they have been threatened by the pro-gadhafi forces who are still within this city, threatened with violence, and worse, if they were to leave. these people who are leaving say that they believe those pro-gadhafi forces wanted to use them as human shields. what happens now is the revolution fighters at the outskirts of the city must now decide whether they're satisfied that enough civilians have left, that as many as possible have gone out, and then they say they will advance and they will try to end this. they're talking about within the next few days. perhaps a week at the most. but it will certainly be a bloody, difficult fight. >> what do we make of the national transitional council's comment today that they believe that gadhafi is probably hiding either in southern libya, algeria or niger? >> well, its saecertainly possi, it is one of those theories that developed after gadhafi disappeared. the transitional council won't say why they believe that's his likely hiding place. in the past they made other claims about knowing where he is or closing in on his location and none of those claims have proven to be true. they do say, however, they believe they also know where two of his sons are. they say that two of his response are hiding out in each of the remaining strongholds, saif al islam and ban ni wny ba wali. some of the old members of the regime even claim to have heard gadhafi, talking to, rallying, ordering his troops as they fight them within the city of sirte, itself. my next guest asked why would anyone want to be president? but first for many americans money is tight when it comes to their travel budget these days. right? so how can you visit five great american cities without breaking the bank? cnn's chad meyers found out while talking to the founding editor of "town and country travel," melissa bradley. >> i'm going to give you 20 seconds. give me what you like about the city and do it with a budget in mind. how about that? >> okay. i'll do my best. i can try. >> new orleans. >> new orleans. great music, great food, after a hurricane katrina amazing energy. you can volunteer there. doesn't cost a thing. memorable experience. don't go to bourbon street, go to frenchman's street. drinks are much cheaper. >> how about new york city? >> the most excite thing about new york city is the 9/11 memorial. it is free. highline, the new elevated park, there's lots more inexpensive boutiques than ever before. foot trucks, the chiccest way to eat in noew york now. >> portland, both maine and oregon. >> oregon you have the affordable version of napa valley. in maine you've got incredible bay, both focus on local markets, seafood, you can actually go out on the ferry and see the islands for $7.50. >> santa barbara, california. >> great outdoors. hiking. surfing. access to amazing beaches, amazing mountains. easy to find. bikes to rent for free. food is fantastic. there's farmer's markets. there are beach stands with probably the best milk shakes and hot dogs in the country. >> washington, d.c. >> amazing memorials, monuments. smithsonian is free. the kennedy center has free performances every single night at 6:00 at the millennium stage. be smart about it, plan in advance because can you tour the white house or capitol if you book in advance. no cost at all but you got to pay your taxes. >> your time is up. so is mine. thank you so much. our 4 new rich & hearty soups really have people talking... 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[ male announcer ] progresso. you gotta taste this soup. want to dip into the michael jackson/dr. conrad murray trial. this is alberto alvarez who's on the stand, director of logistics and he's testifying about the day and the moment that jackson was discovered dead. let's listen in. >> -- people's 19. the lower left corner. is this the stairs as they meet the landing as you just previously identified in people's 20? >> yes, sir. >> so when you came up on -- let me ask you this. in people's 19 then, would this also be the railing area on the lower left corner where you'd seen conrad murray looking down on to the first floor? >> that is correct, sir. >> i think we can resume with the lights, please, your honor. can you still see it clearly enough? >> yes, i can. >> as you came up then on to this landing area, as you've described, where was conrad murray when you first saw him? >> when i saw him, he was walking in this direction from this area here, sir. >> okay. so you've indicated as you look at people's 19 then, looking at the diagram, you would be coming from the right side of the diagram toward the left side area which is indicated on the diagram as landing? >> yes, sir. >> let me just ask you about this diagram briefly. these other areas are identified to the right, this area identified as retreat. do you see that? >> i do. >> okay. if one was to proceed from the landing through what is marked retreat, do they reach a spiral staircase as indicated here on the diagram? >> that is correct, sir. >> if you're to proceed down through that spiral staircase, would you come out into the kitchen? >> correct. >> now as you come up this diagram -- excuse me, come up these stairs and come to the landing to the left-most portion of this diagram where these doors are indicated, do you know what room that was? >> i believe that was mr. jackson's room. >> okay. you say you believe -- you didn't go upstairs very often, did you? >> no, sir. >> how many times would you say you'd been upstairs prior to june 25th, 2009? >> i would say about two. two times. and that was to let his hair dresser up. >> okay. so that's about two times in approximately six months? >> yes, sir. >> but it was your understanding that to the left here was michael jackson's own personal bedroom? >> correct. >> want to bring in our legal contributor, holly hughes, who joins us, has been watching this. what do we make of the importance of this witness here? he's the director of logistics, head logistics. >> well, the really important thing he brings is he is describing the death scene for us, suzanne. he's talking about, hey, i got this call to just come on up here in a hurry, kind of step it up. initially they say where are you, i'm around the back of the house. he starts to proceed but they're like, okay, no, but hurry up. come around the front quick. which is unusual. in all the time he worked there he said he had only been up to that bedroom twice to let him in so he knows something unusual is going on. what he's able to tell this jury is exactly what all the players are doing. i mean michael jackson is dead on the floor and when he gets there conrad murray is standing out in the balcony area kind of just looking over the balcony. now even if the paramedics are there giving resuscitative aid at this point, wouldn't you as the private doctor want to be hovering right there to see what's happening? so this is fantastic. this puts the jury right inside the death scene and he can tell them where all the players were. >> now i understand in discovery he talks a little bit about the fact that murray, conrad murray, is seen collecting vials or pills or things like that. i imagine that that's probably the kind of thing that he's going to discuss again here on the stand. >> oh, absolutely. you better believe it. as his testimony progresses, what he's doing is he is giving the jury a walk-through. he's taking them by the hand and literally saying not only did i just tell you where everybody was, now i'm going to tell you what everybody was doing and most importantly, what the defendant in this case was doing. instead of being at his patient's side, trying to render aid, he's cleaning up the crime scene, arguably, if he's picking up vials and hiding things and the jury is going to want to know why. >> let's listen in. >> did you then terminate your phone call with michael amir? >> yes, i did. >> where about do you think you were when you actually hung up the phone from michael amir, if you know? >> well, i was already in the landing so i must have been in this general area, sir. >> okay. and were you walking toward the entrance here that goes into the foyer? >> that's correct. >> okay. who proceeded in to the foyer first? conrad murray or yourself? >> mr. conrad murray, sir. >> were you directly behind him? >> yes, i was. >> your honor, can we dim the lights? i have a series of photographs. thank you. mr. alvarez, do you see people's 21? >> yes, i do. >> and from this vantage point th then, is this the view from the foyer area looking in to what the diagram reflected as bedroom number two where michael jackson was located? >> that is correct. >> and people's 22 -- is this essentially the same view but basically with the photographer now taking steps into the actual bedroom? >> that is correct. >> and is that the path you took as reflected in people's 21 and 22 that you went in to the foyer and immediately turned into the bedroom? >> yes, i did. >> and what happened when you first walked into the room? >> when i walked in to the room and i turned toward my right, i observed mr. conrad murray giving chest compressions to mr. jackson. >> okay. so he had proceeded into the room in front of you. >> yes. >> and evidently had gone over to where michael jackson was located. >> correct. >> and was giving compressions. >> yes, sir. >> where was mr. jackson at this time? >> he was in the bed, sir. >> as reflected in people's 22, was he on a particular side of the bed? >> he was. he was further to the furthest part of the bed. >> so as you look at the bed in people's 22 he was on this far side of the bed? >> correct. >> was he laying as one normally would with his head in the pillow headboard area and his feet at the feet of the bed? >> that is correct. >> describe for us what you personally observed during this time in the bedroom of michael jackson's condition. >> i remember seeing him and he was laying on his back. his head was -- >> i'm sorry, can we get the lights again, your honor? i apologize. thank you. he was laying on the bed which you described as the far side of the bed? >> correct. he was laying on his back. with his hands extended out and -- >> you indicated extended out to his side with the palms up? >> yes, sir. >> and i observed that his eyes were slightly open or open and his mouth was open. >> okay. and was he looking straight up at the ceiling? was he looking in one particular direction? >> his face was slightly toward the left. >> you say the left. that would be toward the foyer area, essentially. >> correct. >> okay. now as you came in and saw conrad murray giving compressions -- or what you describe as compressions, was he using one hand or two hands? >> he was using one hand, sir. >> can you describe for the jury exactly what you saw with that one hand on the bed? >> he had his hand with his palm open and he was giving chest compressions in this manner. >> okay. you've indicated -- you used your left hand. is it your recollection it was conrad murray's left hand? >> yes, sir. >> you have indicated for the record while michael was on the bed, conrad murray used his left hand and pushed down on his chest. >> correct. >> at some point in time did conrad murray indicate that he needed to get limb to a hospital or words to that effect? >> yes, sir. >> when was that? >> when i came in to the room, he said, "alberto, hurry. we have to take -- get him to a hospital. we have to get an ambulance." >> okay. and after he said that, did paris and prince enter the room? >> yes. when he said that, i was walking towards the bed and i was reaching for my phone in my pocket and as i was doing that, pri prince and paris came in behind me. >> did they actually enter the room as reflected in people's 22 or were they still in the foyer area or where were they exactly if you recall? >> what i recall is that i was closer -- well, coming in to that location -- that specific area and they were right behind me and paris screamed out "daddy!" >> when you heard paris scream out "daddy!" was she crying? >> yes, sir. >> and was michael laying on the bed, palms up, looking slightly to the left at that time? >> yes, he was. >> would he have been actually looking slightly toward paris' location? >> yes, sir. >> did you at that time escort the children out or indicate to them to go out of the room? >> yes, sir. dr. conrad murray said, "hurry! don't let them see their dad like this. don't let them see their dad like this." i proceeded to turn around to the children and kind of ushered them out and said, kids, don't worry, we'll take care of it, everything is going to be okay. so i walked them out towards the landing area, towards the front door of the suite. >> and at that point did you ask conrad murray what had happened? >> yes, sir. when i returned back to the situation, i was approaching the room -- or the bed and i asked dr. conrad murray what happened. and he said he had a reaction. he had a bad reaction. and i was standing at that time at the foot of the bed. >> at some point during this episode, is it fair to say this was all happening very quickly? >> yes, sir. >> at some point during this time period in the room, did you notice something that struck you as unusual regarding a medical device on michael jackson's penis? >> yes, sir. i recall seeing what appeared to be a plastic bag or some sort of medical device like that and it was on his penis. >> and this plastic device on his penis, was tubing attached to that? >> yes, sir. >> and did that tubing go to a urine receptacle or urine bag? >> there was, yes, sir. >> do you know what a condom bag is? >> no, sir. >> a medical device used so someone can essentially urinate into a bag without moving from the location? >> yes, sir. >> did you know what a condom catheter was at that time? >> no, sir. >> at any time -- eventually you called 911 per conrad murray's instructions. correct? >> correct. >> at any time prior to calling 911 or after calling 911 did you observe any heart monitor or any type of equipment, monitoring equipment, in that room? >> no, sir. >> did you ever see -- do you know what a blood pressure cuff is? >> no, sir. >> did you see anything attached to michael's arm, like a black band that would be used to monitor someone's blood pressure? >> oh. no, sir, i did not. >> and you didn't see any type of heart monitor, any type of that equipment anywhere? >> no, sir. >> double negative. >> i'm sorry. is it true did you not see any type of heart monitor? >> that's correct. >> no equipment with lights on it or any type of ventilation equipment? >> no, sir. the only -- no, sir. >> you started to say "the only --" >> the only thing i do recall seeing was oxygen tubing attached to mr. jackson. >> okay. and when you said that, you said attached to mr. jackson, you put your fingers to your nose. >> correct. >> so there was some type of tushi i tubing -- was that a clear plastic tubing connected to michael jackson's nose? >> yes, sir. zblind katie ing >> indicating the nasal area. >> that's correct. >> thank you, your honor. did you see an iv stand? >> i sure did. >> where was that when you first saw it, if you can remember? >> i can use the pointer? >> please. >> it was in this general area, sir, right on the far side of the bed. >> in people's 22 then you've indicated the far side of the bed in the general area between the bed and the chairs and nightstand. is that accurate? >> that is accurate. >> showing you people's 23 for identificati identification. does this people's 23 reflect the general area where you saw the iv stand? >> yes, sir. >> okay. and where was it in essence reflected in people's 23? >> it was in this direction, sir, right around here. >> in the lower portion of people's 23 near the chair? >> correct. >> okay. and do you see to the side of that what appears to be an oxygen tank? >> correct. >> okay. did you see that at that time? >> no, sir. all i saw was the tubing connected. >> you're not saying it wasn't there. you just don't recall seeing it? >> i don't recall seeing it, sir. >> and do you know what an ambu bag is? >> no, sir. >> do you see this device on the floor of people's 23? >> oh, yes, sir. >> did you see that at that time or at least did you notice it at that time? >> i recall seeing it while -- you know, after everything was happening. i do recall seeing the bag. >> okay. was that later on or -- >> i'm not quite sure but i do remember seeing the bag. >> okay. >> now, these observations you've described as far as what was in the room and the condom catheter on michael jackson, these are taking place throughout the episode simultaneously to what's happening? >> correct, sir. >> okay. so going back to what was physically what happened -- so you kind of indicated to the children to leave the room. is that accurate? >> yes, sir. >> conrad murray then as you're coming back to approach him tells you michael had a bad reaction. >> yes, sir. >> did he then instruct you to take some vials or do something with some vials? >> yes. well, i was standing at the foot of the bed. he reached over and grabbed a handful of vials and then he reached out to me and said, here, put these in a bag. >> where was conrad murray when he did that? >> he was kneeling down here in this area here. >> okay. and you've indicated the area to the side of what we've described as the far side of the bed in front of the nightstand and you said he was kneeling down? >> correct. with one knee. he was kneeling with i believe his left knee and then he had his other leg like kind of -- >> whoa. he had his other leg? >> well, he didn't have his knee on the floor. >> neither knee was on the floor? >> the left knee was on the floor. >> okay. and the other knee was not? >> correct. >> okay. and from where did he pick up these vials that he was -- >> he picked them up from this nightstand here. >> okay. and just to be clear, people's 23, there's this -- there's a wood nightstand directly adjacent to the bed. correct? >> correct. >> and there's some other type of table to the left side of that nightstand. correct? is. >> correct. >> so the location from which conrad murray grabbed the vials was the wood nightstand directly next to the bed. >> yes, sir. >> and did you -- when he -- i'm sorry, what were the exact words he said when he had these vials in his hand and he was reaching them out to you? >> he said, "put these in a bag." >> did you grab a bag? >> i did. i looked towards my right and there was a plastic bag sitting on top of a chair. and so i proceeded to get the bag and i opened it and he placed the vials in the bag. >> so you held the bag open and he what? just dropped the vials in there? >> yes, sir. he reached into the bag and dropped the vials. >> okay. and did you then put that bag somewhere? >> yes. he proceeded to instruct me -- he said now place that bag in a brown bag and there was a brown bag that was on the side of a chair on the floor. >> okay. did he then ask you or tell you to grab another item? >> yes, he did. >> what did he tell you? >> he pointed toward the iv stand -- >> and iv stand, again, was in this general area right there in people's 23 near this chair? >> correct. >> what did he tell you to do? >> he pointed to a bag and he said, "now grab that bag and put that in the blue bag." >> and when you say he pointed to a bag, where was this bag and what did it look like? >> it was on the iv stand and if i'm looking towards -- if i'm looking at the iv stand, the bag was on the right side of the iv stand. >> was it hanging from the iv stand? >> yes, sir, it was. >> did you take it off the iv stand? >> i did. >> and what did you do with it? >> when i took it off, like i said, he instructed me to put it in a blue bag so i grabbed the bag and i went and i put it in the blue bag, sir. >> was that all in this general area you've identified in people's 23 to the side of the bed? >> yes, sir. the chair was more further down to the foot area of the bed. >> okay. >> looking at people's 22. you see the bed. correct? >> correct. >> the wood nightstand to the side of the bed. >> yes, sir. >> the other table you identified in the white chair. >> yes, sir. >> okay. the oxygen tank. >> okay. >> right? >> yes. >> then you indicated the iv stand was in this general area near the white chair. is that accurate? >> correct. >> and you said there was another chair more toward the foot of the bed. was that what appears in this picture to be this reddish chair? >> i believe it was this chair, sir. this one looks more familiar to be there. >> is that where it was located? >> no. it was closer to the bed, sir. it was right around this area, sir. >> and show me again where it was when you retrieved the bag from it. >> well, the chair was in this general area here, sir, right in front of where this red chair is at. >> in front of the red chair, would it be on the wood floor or on the rug? >> i don't recall. >> okay. but it was in this general area at the foot of the bed, generally in front of this red chair. >> correct. >> i think we need to identify the particular chair at issue which is in a different location. this is a smaller wooden chair that's to the far left-hand portion of the photograph? >> that is correct, sir. >> and in the photograph, people's 22, as you look at people's 22, it would be this chair directly to the left of the television monitor on this table. is that accurate? >> correct. >> and were you able to take a step or so and reach over and grab that bag? >> i'm sorry. what do you mean? grab the bag. >> you said you grabbed the bag from the wood chair. right? >> no, no -- oh, yes, sir. the bag that i grabbed where he placed the vials? >> yes. >> if i'm looking at the bed, the bag was to my right so it was on the far -- on this side, over here, down here. the wooden chair, or the chair was on this side here. >> okay. let me zoom out. so the wooden chair -- you indicated it was kind of at the foot of the bed in front of the red chair that we've identified. and on this photograph where was it? >> if i may clarify, sir. i think i'm a little confused. we're talking about when he placed the -- when i grabbed the bag and he placed the vials -- >> yes. >> okay. that chair was on this side down here. >> okay. >> okay? and that's when i turned to my right and i saw the chair. and the plastic bag was sitting on top of that. >> okay. because now i'm confused. you were on the far side of the bed over here. >> correct. >> so -- >> just a moment. we need to clarify these terms "far side" and "down here," et cetera. go ahead. >> you previously said the far side of the bed is the vantage point from looking at the foyer fur -- if the vantage point is -- >> you're listening to alberto alvarez, director of logistics talking about the immediate scene that he discovered when michael jackson was dead and his interaction with the doctor, conrad murray. going to take a quick break and after that break we'll get back to our legal analyst holly hooudz hughes to talk a little bit about what this all means. let me tell you about a very important phone call i made. when i got my medicare card, i realized i needed an aarp... medicare supplement insurance card, too. medicare is one of the great things about turning 65, but it doesn't cover everything. in fact, it only pays up to 80% of your part b expenses. if you're already on or eligible for medicare, call now to find out how an aarp... medicare supplement insurance plan, insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company, helps cover some of the medical expenses... not paid by medicare part b. that can save you from paying up to thousands of dollars... out of your own pocket. these are the only medicare supplement insurance plans... exclusively endorsed by aarp. when you call now, you'll get this free information kit... with all you need to enroll. put their trust in aarp medicare supplement insurance. plus you'll get this free guide to understanding medicare. the prices are competitive. i can keep my own doctor. and i don't need a referral to see a specialist. call now to get a free information kit. plus you'll get this free guide to understanding medicare. and the advantages don't end there. choose from a range of medicare supplement plans... that are all competitively priced. we have a plan for almost everyone, so you can find one that fits your needs and budget. with all medicare supplement plans, there are virtually no claim forms to fill out. plus you can keep your own doctor and hospital that accepts medicare. and best of all, these plans are... the only medicare supplement plans endorsed by aarp. when they told me these plans were endorsed by aarp... i had only one thing to say... sign me up. call the number on your screen now... and find out about an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan. you'll get this free information kit... and guide to understanding medicare, to help you choose the plan that's right for you. as with all medicare supplement plans, you can keep your own doctor and hospital that accepts medicare, get help paying for what medicare doesn't... and save up to thousands of dollars. call this toll-free number now. want to bring in holly hughes to describe for us what stood out in your mind here when you listened to this guy talk about the -- actually discovering michael jackson and the scene in the bedroom. >> well, what we're doing, again, like we talked about before, is painting a picture for the jury. one of the big things that strikes me is, prosecution asked a lot of questions about this condom catheter which is kind of making us all a little squeamish. we're thinking to ourselves is this necessary testimony? here's the really important point that he's making with that testimony. when you are just going to sleep for ten minutes, dr. murray has, through his attorney, said well i only gave him enough to knock him out for ten minutes. you don't need a catheter, suzanne -- i'm so sorry. who am i talking to? you wake yourself up, right? when the body lass to go to the bathroom, we all experience this at night -- we wake ourselves up, we go and use the bathroom, we come back to bed. the point is, if dr. murray thought that michael jackson was only going to be knocked out for ten minutes he would not have actually put a catheter on this man. a catheter is what we get when we undergo surgery when we're under this general anesthetic, propofol which is the culprit here. then we need to have the catheter because we're going to be out for a long time and we're going to be so sedated and so far under that our body will not naturally wake itself up. so that's one of the big things that jumped out at me. i know folks have been a little squeamish about that, but it is necessary because it drives home the point, if this doctor thought that he just gave a little bit of propofol, why in heaven's name have you attached a catheter to your patient? that's huge. >> he talks about the bags and that he's putting these vials and these pills and this iv bag into these separate bags. what is the significance? >> the significance of that is he is sanitizing crime scene. he's cleaning it up. if there is no wrongdoing on his part, if he is completely innocent in this and he doesn't think he did anything wrong, what he's going to be doing is either attending to his patient, or if his patient has been taken away, remember this -- he first cared for the children. he first nursed the children. why not go to them? >> i want to interrupt here. let's go back inside. i understand the testimony is heating up. >> dr. murray had the best intentions for mr. jackson so i didn't question his authority at the time. i knew it was a medical emergency so i proceeded to follow mr. conrad murray's instructions. >> okay. what did you think these items were being packed up before, if anything? >> i thought we were packing to get him ready to go to the hospital. >> when you removed the saline bag from the iv stand, did you notice anything unusual about that saline bag? yes, sir. i recall that while i was detaching it from the iv stand, the bag was at my eye level so i was able to notice that there was a bottle inside this bag. >> okay. >> when you removed the saline bag from the iv stand, was this the type of -- well, let me show you people's 25. zooming in on people's 25 depicting the iv stand in the room, do you see that this particular iv stand has the hook device on one side with no bag on it, and then a saline bag on the other side? >> correct. >> okay. when you removed the particular saline bag that you removed, was the other saline bag still hanging from the iv stand? >> yes, sir. >> were you ever asked to remove that other saline bag? >> no, sir. >> and the one you were asked to remove had a bottle inside of it? >> yes, sir. >> and can you describe what you observed about that bottle or that saline bag that you removed? >> well, what i recall is, like i said, it was at my eye level and i was able to notice that at the bottom of the bag, there was what appeared to me like a milky white substance, sir. >> okay. was that in the bottle or the bag or could you tell with certainty? >> i recall seeing it at the bottom of the bag, sir. >> and at an earlier date earlier than today, did you attempt to draw a picture of the kind of general shape and structure of that bag? >> yes, i did. >> okay. i can have the dying that's previously been shown to defense counsel? may this be marked people's 27 for identification? >> yes. >> thank you, your honor. >> you're welcome. >> could we dim the lights, please, your honor? thank you. sir, showing you what's been marked people's 27, is that your drawing? >> embarrassed to say, but yes. >> the top most part of that diagram, this basically large rectangle, does that represent the actual saline bag itself? >> correct. >> and then it comes down to the bottom here where the saline bag terminates and you drew this apparatus or this device on the bottom of that saline bag. does this drawing accurately depict what you saw? >> yes, sir. >> and when you saw some white substance, does this diagram show where that white substance was? >> yes, sir. i can use my pointer to show? >> please. >> what i recall is seeing the milky white substance -- >> "cnn newsroom" will continue after the break with randi kaye live in los angeles outside the jackson trial.

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