♪ ♪ ♪ good evening, thank you for joining us. we'll be here with cnn's chief dana bash, citing tonight's third republican presidential debate. that is just wrapped up. >> anderson, i'm gonna be speaking tonight with some of the candidates who just finished here on the debate stage minus, of course, the former president. the faraway front runner who has not attended any of these debates. he's competing instead and an event nearby. >> just five candidates this time, in a few moments, we'll hear what voters in iowa watch from cnn's gary tuchman made of what they saw. two candidates, florida governor ron desantis and former u. n. ambassador nikki haley with the two closest in the polls for the president. so many eyes were on them, including this exchange they got into with over china. >> then we will go in and all formal trade relations with china, base they start murdering americans for fentanyl. something -- they's have yet to say they will do. then we modernize our military. when we strengthen our military, when we modernize it, with the focus of cyber artificial intelligence in space when we make sure that we keep the bags of our friends, whether it's in israel, whether it's in ukraine and we should be arming taiwan. >> ambassador haley said somehow i wasn't doing, she welcomed that into south carolina, gave them that land near a military base. wrote the chinese ambassador a love letter, saying what a great friend they were. that was like their number one way to do economic development. in florida, i banned china from buying land in the state. and we kicked out -- we kicked out the confucius institutes at various universities. we recognize the threat, and we've acted swiftly and decisively. >> yes, i brought a fiber glass company ten years ago to south carolina. but ron, you are the chair of your economic development agency that as of last week said florida is the ideal place for chinese businesses. not only that, you have a company that is manufacturer of chinese military planes. you have, it they're expanding to training sites, and two of your airports now one which is 12 miles away from a naval base, then you have another company that's expanding. and they were just invaded by the department foment security. so, mine was ten years ago. yours was -- what your story? >> i abolish that agency that she's talking about. enterprise florida, we abolished it. of course, we banned china. >> -- not exactly a great recruiting pitch. >> check the website last week. >> with me tonight, cnn senior political analyst, -- cnn's abby philip, host of news night. senior political commentator, former obama senior adviser, daniel axelrod, who just exhaled loudly at that exchange. and three conservative -- commoners, scott jennings and david urban. we should quickly mention, david is a consultant for bytedance, a parent company of tiktok the social network that came up in the debate. >> good night, everybody. >> what did you exhale so loudly? >> just enjoying the great pageant of democracy. i mean, look, first of all, this debate is sort of odd. it's like the silver medal round. it's like the gold medal winner has already been declared, and this is the silver medal round. now, it's come down really to two candidates. haley and desantis. and you get what you get, by the way, this is being carried out the same debate on television in iowa right now. one of them, the whole theory of the case is one of them is gonna emerge as the trump challenger. the problem is trump has such a large lead nationally that it just might be meaningless. >> what are they hoping for? some sort of criminal indictment? somehow they'll step into the breach? >> look, trump really only came up of the beginning part of the debate. when they asked directly about him. other than that, to their credit, they were debating amongst themselves about their positions on issues, a little name calling here and there. i think that they're just hoping that he just implodes. nobody is really trying to take it to trump. not even chris christie, the person who's ostensibly in this race to take on trump. i don't see anything changing there. i think haley sees desantis as a problem for her. desantis haley as a problem. ramaswamy sees desantis and haley as a problem. they're all fighting over the same 15% of the electorate. none of them really have a plan it seems to get beyond that, get closer to trump, he's mid 40s. and beyond. it's not changing. >> hope is not a good strategy. >> 40 points ahead. look, they want to take home the silver medal, as david said, what does that get you? it doesn't get you much. what was interesting to me, about tonight, they were given the opportunity to take on donald trump right out of the box. you know, christy did it. haley did it, but ramaswamy, of course, not so much, and desantis said well, he said we'd be tired of winning. i'm tired of losing. still, didn't take him on frontal. they didn't mention, well, a little sharper. you know, they didn't mention anything about the trial. the former president's testimony this past week. or the indictments. none of that came up. and it's clear that they're just still a little nervous. except for chris christie. >> yeah, because, the underlying premise here, if they attack donald trump, whatever percentage they command now will decrease. proportionate to their attack of donald trump. because they're fighting and i, whether the fighting to regain relevance. the party still wants donald trump, until the party moves past donald trump, this isn't even a silver medal round. this is a jv game this is not even for a metal. there is a way to do it. >> i thought that would probably get me the most fire we've seen tonight. because we are two months out from iowa. you have nikki and desantis closing in. and there was a real discussion around the electability issue. coming off of last night, republicans on that stage had been raising alarm bells. we lost in 2020. 2018. 2023. with donald trump we continue to lose, and nikki haley the best case she has that she performs head to head against joe biden, better than any candidate on that stage and donald trump. that is the message you don't even have to alienate voters. by going after the policy, the personality, of the indictment. and it wasn't there. >> the electability argument was thought to be the main way to get him for so long. and then the national polling started to change. and for the last several weeks republicans have been looking at poll after poll, showing biden circling the drain. and trump going up, nationally, and in the swing states, if you're a republican you like donald trump, you say, well, anybody's gonna beat joe biden. ? >> that's the failure of litigating the case before this. >> that's desantis's main argument. i'm the one who's gonna take on. >> yet he does worse head to head. >> tonight, what was interesting, desantis, i think, for one of the first times really took on nikki haley. because she's obviously standing in his way. you know, he took her on in ways that he hasn't done before. he attacked her without being attacked first. >> i would just say this about last night. what we saw last night, across america, we continue to see, is republicans misaligning on the abortion issue. every one of those candidates on that stage is in the losing side of the abortion question. they all want a six-week ban. so -- >> not tim scott, he laid out a pretty clear challenge everybody to go to 15 weeks. it's true, i understand that. my point, that this isn't really, they're not really advancing the ball. they're not electable. they're not more electable. >> before we jump to abortion, because i think haley had a really strong answer on that. just a second something that scott said, nikki haley's principal argument in the first debate was that trump couldn't win, and that she could. she didn't repeat that argument now for the reason that scott said. republicans believe any of these guys could beat biden. and they might as well go with a guy they like. and the guy they want. >> i thought haley, by the way, just on the merits, had a really strong night. abortion in otherwise. i thought desantis had a really strong open. so, if you agree, it's got down to those two as the real possible here they both were very good. there were some great answers tonight on desantis assailing biden over some of his response on israel. you know, i thought haley taken on ramaswamy by the way. ramaswamy, he's like the guy running the ship in space balls. he went right to ludicrous speed. right out of the gate. >> people like that, scott. they like it. -- >> in the realm of mel brooks movies, space balls was not the finest. let's show the nikki haley what she said about abortion. >> somehow, i wasn't doing -- >> be honest with the american people. this is a personal issue for every woman and every man. i am unapologetically pro-life. not because the republican party tells me to be. but because -- my husband michael was adopted, i had trouble having both of my children. i'm surrounded by blessings. having said, that when you look post roe, a wrong was made right. they took the hands of unelected justices, and they put it in the hands of the people. now, we're seeing states vote. what i'll tell you, as much as i'm pro-life, i don't judge anyone for being pro-choice. and i don't want them to judge me for being pro-life. so, when we're looking at this, there's some states that are going more on the pro-life site. i welcome that. there's some states that are going more on the pro-choice site, i wish that wasn't the case, but the people decided. when it comes to the federal law, which is what's being debated here, be honest. it's gonna take 60 senate votes, a majority of that house, and a president to sign it. so, no, we haven't had 60 senate votes in over 100 years. we might have 45 pro-life senators. so, no republican president can ban abortions. any more than a democrat president can bend the state laws. let's find consensus. let's agree on what how we can ban late term abortions. let's make sure we encourage adoptions, and good quality adoptions. let's make sure we make contraception accessible. let's make sure that none of these state laws put a woman in jail or give her the death penalty for getting an abortion. let's focus on how to save as many babies as we can, and support as many moms as we can. and stop the judgment. we don't need to divide america over this issue anymore. >> can i just say about that, nikki haley, to credit where it's due, that has been her position from the beginning. of her campaign for the presidency. you are seeing a lot of the other candidates, i saw a softening in desantis's position tonight. i spoke to chris christie last night, during our coverage of the election, he also adopted basically that position. even donald trump coming to this place was after nikki haley. early on in this campaign, when she made those kinds of comments, she was criticized for not coming out strongly enough at the certain point to say, i support x number of weeks, 15 weeks, 20 weeks, what have you. so, you know, now that we have two cycles, basically, the dobbs decision being a political disaster for republicans, people are looking at that answer and say, it's calibrated exactly the right way perhaps. but to her credit, she's been saying that, and i'm seeing, to my ear, i felt like desantis was the one who moved the most on his abortion. he talked about a six-week ban. >> after he signed the 15-week thing. >> he didn't talk about that really. he was talking about basically some kind of compassion of conservativism position. which is not where he was a year ago. >> let's just play what he said. >> i'm reminded of a story about a young mother who is struggling in jamaica about 40 years ago, 45 years ago. she was counseled to not have a baby. because she was poor. baby would not have opportunity. and she came close to having an abortion. she decided to have the baby, born poor in jamaica. the reason i know that story, because that baby girl ended up emigrating to the state of florida, becoming a lawyer and a judge. and i appointed her to the florida supreme court in august of 2022. >> you've got to do a better job on these referendums. of all the stuff that's happened in the pro-life cause, we've been caught flat-footed on these referendums. they have been losing the referenda. a lot of the people who are voting for the referenda a republican to vote for republican candidate. you have to understand how to do that. >> so, a fine night for ron desantis, but i've seen him grow as a candidate, i'm not seen him grow to build a talk to a general election audience. as a republican, i got what he was saying, it didn't move the needle for me. but nikki haley, to her credit, has had a nuanced and lead on the issue of abortion from the outside of her campaign. i would actually argue that, if last, night there's the kind of criticism over glenn youngkin in virginia. had his message sounded more like that's where you can get a broad swath of the country left right and center to at least come to the table and have the conversation that's a general action can i think you gonna see donald trump like the falling message. trump's been there not be able to articulate. reasonable rating. >> let's cut a deal, when a great place, we should cut a deal. >> here's the thing about being a general election candidate to be a general election candidate, you have to get to the general election. so, ron desantis has one thing in mind, which is to win the iowa or to do well enough in iowa to keep on playing the game. that is a lot of evangelical voters in iowa. this is why he's so embraced that six-week ban in the first place. she is showing up better in the polls, she certainly may be the best general election candidate, but it's how do you get from here to there. >> i think she understands this is an emotional issue. it's not just donald trump saying, let's cut a deal. it's a real estate deal. let's come up with 15 weeks, this is an emotional issue. and i think that's what nikki haley understands. that's what ron desantis was trying to do by talking about a personal experience with someone. but when she says let's not judge people on either side, i think people want to hear that, because they understand it's emotional. and it's very different from any other issue they're gonna discuss. you know, i think she's just been out front on this. from day one. >> she's more able to go down this road to access point, then desantis. she's really playing, like you said, for new hampshire. he's playing for iowa. you just can't go as far. i think we republicans, walking to the iowa caucus who want exceptions. they want something a little different. by and large, that's a more conservative group on this than other social issues than you might run into in new hampshire. you just thinking about the math and the tactical move here. desantis has to get there. he doesn't get there on round one. she's left for round two. >> again, the question is, what does it matter? what does it matter? if trump wins by 40 or 50 points in iowa, does it matter? >> by the, way trump is not playing the same game. he's not playing the same game as any of these people. >> the rules don't apply. >> then he wins big in new hampshire. he wins big in south carolina. wids begin about. this is all the move. this is academic. it's academic. >> susan b anthony list antiabortion groups, basically, think trump is selling them out on this issue of abortion. it is not impacted him the most. >> he appointed the court that overturned roe v. wade. that's all he has to say. >> criticize donald trump. >> argument in the polls. reflected nothing, no diminution. his voters are not pressing on these issues. they got one issue. vindication. they think he's gonna get nominated, they think he's gonna be biden, fair and square. and they think they're gonna be vindicated on russia, impeachment, policy, indictments. all of it. january 6th. they think they're getting vindication and ultimately the we told you. so they're not sitting here parsing out these individual issues. the only way to get vindication for them is to nominate trump. no issues gonna put him off that. >> you know what? talk about new hampshire, i think that is, a couple of, he didn't do well in iowa. new hampshire is perilous for him here. you have democratic voters participating. haley is trying to do well enough in iowa, she loves to finish second, to have that face-off in new hampshire on the theory of desantis will be gone from the race but the question is can anyone ultimately overtake trump. if it doesn't happen in new hampshire. and it doesn't happen in iowa, it's everybody gets it. >> party handshake. >> south carolina. that's her strategy. if she can in iowa. >> i think this is all academic. >> by the way, national polls at this juncture, do not mean much. you combine the average polling of every candidate on that stage. and they don't add up toward donald trump's. i think we have to start, as a party being realistic about the fact that short of some outside factor, 91 indictments were not enough. donald trump will be the nominee, tonight, to me, did not in any way to move the needle. if anything, it just narrowed it to nikki and desantis. >> i agree. i don't think the needle moved. also, to your point about this idea of maybe desantis being gone at some point, a lot of people are going to trump. >> that's actually right. >> haley is not necessarily -- >> the desantis strategy was to out-trump trump. and to run to the right of trump. he has succeeded in winning the admiration of trump voters, but they have trump. >> look at the state of florida. donald trump's far more popular than ron desantis in his own state. >> gonna take a short break, candidate vivek ramaswamy joins dana next. coming up. is it possible my network could take my business to the next level? it is with comcast business. powering all your devices with gig-speed wifi. and you get fast downloads and uploads. pick it up! pick it up! oh we got this! because it's powered by the next generation 10g network. more speed for your business? it's not just possible. it's happening. get started for $59.99 a month for 12 months. plus, ask how to get an $800 prepaid card with a qualifying internet bundle. comcast business, powering possibilities. ♪ ♪ ♪ the candidates, as always, have a lot to say at a night's third republican debate. here in miami. the question is, how did their words square with fact? for that, we're joined by our one and only daniel dale. daniel, what of the candidates, vivek ramaswamy, made a pretty dramatic claim about the biden family in aid to ukraine. let's listen. >> joe biden sold off our foreign policy. joe biden son, hunter biden, get a $5 million bribe from ukraine. that's why we're sending 200 billion dollars back to that same country. >> then you, is there any truth to that? >> so, major problems, with both parts of that claim for mr. ramaswamy. number one, the claim about a supposed bribe, to hunter, biden is completely uncorroborated. number two, there is not one iota of evidence, nothing at all, to suggest that aid to ukraine, which has been approved by bipartisan majorities, has anything to do with any member of the biden family. so, what we know about this claim of a bribe? well, all we know is that, in 2020, a confidential fbi source told the bureau that for years prior, he had heard the ceo of ukrainian energy company, where hunter biden sat on the board, say that the ceo had given two 5 million dollar payments, 1 to 1 biden, and one to another. a dramatic claim. but that claim, from the informant, contained no proof whatsoever, in, fact the fbi report in memorialized allegation, said the source cannot even authorize the opinion of the accuracy of the claim. subsequently, the house heard testimony from republican witness devin archer, an associate of hunter biden, who said that he had never heard anything about such a payment. he characterized the claim from his ukrainian ceo as a typical example of this man -- exaggerating, embellishing, his influence. as to aid to ukraine, this, again, has been approved by members of both parties. so is mr. ramaswamy suggesting, here republican members of the house and senate like mitch mcconnell is approving aid to ukraine, because of hunter biden? it transparently makes no sense. >> daniel, thank you so, much anderson, back to you. >> dana, thank you very much. interesting the more people see vivek ramaswamy, the less they seem to like him. [laughter] >> is it surprising? >> not surprising, just interesting. >> they're going after the daughter. terrible idea. look, it's like, when you become a wwe villain, you get f to double down on all the things that cause the crowd to. boo, get heat from the crowd. that's essentially what he's become here. he's not playing for the nomination. he's playing for that role in the republican party. it's why he started the debate, by criticizing the chairwoman the public and party. such an inside baseball thing. not a voter out there. -- >> if you look at social media, conservative republicans on social media, scott, listen, this is the republican primary. they're all calling for ron's head on a pike. so, he's reflecting what they saw on social media. look at lots and lots of stats. not me, look it up. look it up in a little machine. >> he feels, like if you put into chatgpt, what what a candidate created by elon musk, tucker carlson, and alex joe rogan -- >> in a meth labl. >> of that's what you would get. there is an un-seriousness to it. we kind of glossed over, frankly, he essentially called president zelenskyy a wartime jewish president and ukraine. a nazi. that's just a ludicrous statement to make a national television. it's irresponsible. and then there's just the showmanship and the insult. his unfavorable's are the highest of anyone on that stage. it's not surprising. >> by the way, i looked up my little machine, what tells me, his numbers are in the toilet. if it's a strategy it's not working. -- >> let's go back today in miami, dana? >> thanks, anderson, i haven't been here a senator tim scott of south carolina. thank you so much for being here. i want to start by something that you said about iran. and what the u.s., if you are president, would do about iran. >> i would tell president biden, with great clarity, if you want to stop the 40 plus attacks on military personnel in the middle east. you have to strike in iran. if you want to make a difference, you can't just continue to have strikes in syria on warehouses. you actually have to cut off the head of the snake, and the head of the snake is iran. and not simply their proxies. in order for us to have a powerful response, from america, we have to be in a position of strength. as president of the united states, my foreign policy, a simple. you cannot negotiate with evil. you have to destroy it. >> pretty provocative. i mean, the notion of, you're not saying bomb iran, you are saying strikes. sounds like you're saying limited strikes but any strike directly at iran would no doubt cause a much broader regional war. >> i actually disagree, i think the face of the matter, by striking around you de-escalate the situation. >> how? so >> 100 attacks on american military personnel since joe biden's taken office. over 40 since october the 17th. what we know, without question, appeasement leads to war. it leads to conflict, it leads to chaos. that's what we're seeing right now in the middle east. the one thing that we have not tried, is to actually strike the head of the snake. we know that iran since 90% of the money to hamas as comes from around. we know that the attacks on american personnel have been funded by iran. we know that the drone attacks, funded by iran. if we are going to deal with the challenges of our men and women in uniform are dealing with, in the middle east, you have to go to iran. >> what specifically with that strike look like? >> we would use precision. missiles. to strike within iran. we would use our cue nine to do so. number one, number two, i would suggest that. as opposed to striking an empty warehouse. and we strike military assets that would reduce their ability to impact our people. again i understand we are saying is that at this point, it's kind of a proxy because, it's a proxy on iran's side, not necessarily on america's side. they are using their assets to hit america. to go into a raw is a whole different ball game. >> left and right, we all can see the fact that iran is using proxies to attack u.s. military personnel. you want to reduce the likelihood of their proxies attacking more military personnel, the most effective way to do that, is to strike iran. >> let's talk about the issue of abortion. it's very loud in here. thank you for bearing with us. you were very clear about your position on abortion, which you have been in the past, towards the end of the debate, governor desantis was pretty tough on conservative activists. he called it the pro-life community. saying the pro-life community was effectively, these are my words, not his words, has made the switch. and that is in part why republicans and those who are antiabortion or losing these referendum across the country, do you agree with? it >> i don't agree with that whatsoever. number two, i would say without question 72% of americans agree with a 15-week limit. a 15-week limit on the national level would stop what we saw just yesterday ohio having the ability to have abortion up until the day of birth. what we want in this country is to protect the culture of life. giving states the ability and the flexibility to have 15 weeks to figure out the issue of life is long enough. going beyond that, in my opinion, is just wrong and unethical. and it is a position. we are 3 to 4 americans are there and will probably get the democrats to come together to get that legislation passed that would be an important signals to the nation that we continue to create a culture of life. clear the kind of -- to make the decision. >> how do you think governor desantis said it's gonna sit with the anti-abortion groups that -- >> the pro-life groups? >> yeah. talking about iowa, talking about -- >> iron instead way said what he said. there's no reason to insult the pro-life odor. unnecessarily. frankly, if you're in a constructive critique, that's one thing. that was not a constructive critique. i believe that the strongest base in our party is the base of common sense. it doesn't necessarily mean just the pro-life issue. economic issues, military issues. energy issues. it does include the pro-life issues. ronald reagan said it really well, 11th come in. thou shalt not insult a fellow republican. >> you've got? >> that's the whole debate was like. >> listen, that's a debate is for. debating each other is one thing, it's holding our voters is older than. i want to just ask you about the 15-week argument that you just made. because, no, this was not on the ballot in virginia. per se but it was a big part of what governor youngkin campaigned on, on behalf of the republicans who were running in the state house. and it was what he urged them to run on. exactly what you're saying a 15-week he called it a limit, a ban, with exceptions. and not only did that not succeed in turning over the senate. he actually lost the house. doesn't that fly in the face of the argument you are making. >> not at all. elections are primarily about more than one issue. commonwealth's defeat, for republican governor. on the shoulders of the pro-life movement. that's just inconsistent with reality. my perspective. we can talk about the issue of life in a way that 3 out of 4 americans agree with it. >> he tried to do that, he re-branded a lot. >> talk about the issue of life. that doesn't stop when the baby is born. it continues. you're talking about adoption as i talked about it. and crisis pregnancy centers i talked about. and providing resources and tax credits for the expected mother you have to make the issue of life holistic. by doing so, i think not only do we keep our voters, we expand into independent voters. >> senator scott, thank you so much. appreciate your time. nice to see you. anderson, back to you. >> dana, thanks so much. what else? [laughter] >> we were just, i mean, scott got the most speaking time tonight. david pointed that out. during the debate and if you want to go back to ramaswamy, who's trying to avoid the attack dog. what was stunning to me, the amount of vitriol on that stage. against one person. particularly from nikki haley, she's just had it with him. when he talked about her daughter on tiktok and she said you're just scum. those are tough words. >> you think? >> but it was a bad move on his part. he's just becoming the attack dog, attack dog, attack dog. as david pointed out, he's going down, down, down. in the polls. tim scott shows, when you're a nice guy, you don't go up and up and up in the polls. either. >> dana has vivek ramaswamy, let's go back to dana. >> thank you so much. mr. ramaswamy, thank you so much, we are on the air now. where do i even start? let's start with the way you started it, the beginning of the debate. you really came out hot on everybody. >> i'm pretty frustrated with a losing culture in the republican party. >> you went after, for our viewers didn't see the debate, you went after the rnc chair, who is hosting you here. you went after the network hosting you here. and pretty much everybody in between. you said you're frustrated. they're not your opponents. >> no, but i think what i'm doing in this race is speaking truth to 360 degrees. i've been very critical of the democratic party. if you listen to my final words on stage. i think that it's important in the democratic party, be honest about who the nominee is gonna be. i think we all quietly acknowledge, it's very unlikely to be joe biden. be honest with people now. i would say the same in the media. >> what makes you think? that >> why is gavin newsom flying in a private jet using private funds or california funds to go to china? he's not running. governor tim is not running. >> seventh largest economy. i don't debate governor, substitute asked that question, -- the he's got the very large economy in california. let's talk about joe biden, -- >> what i would say this, to answer your question, i'm happy to talk about my point about biden, i think it's true that biden is not gonna be the nominee. most people in the democratic party will quietly acknowledge it. just say it out loud. build trust with the people. what i'm saying, as a republican candidate, i can't just call out democrats and called the hunter biden corruption from ukraine and the 5 million dollar bribe. i will continue to do that. >> there is no evidence to support that he's paid a five billion dollar bribe. >> if he was, that's corruption. >> if he was, i just want you making an allegation where there's no evidence to back that up. daniel dale literally just talked about this on the air. >> absolutely there's a lot of circumstantial evidence, and testimonial evidence to suggest. and you have senators saying they've received information. investigations were proceeding as we speak. that is corruption in the democratic party after called out deserves to be corrupt you just admitted there's no evidence. there's circumstantial evidence. it's 5 million in actual recordings that actually. >> nobody has seen. it will haven't released it? one thing else, a bipartisan point, whether you're joe biden or nikki haley, released your tax returns. be completely open about where you've made your money. american people deserve to know. i did something early in the campaign, that, frankly, people in both parties should be doing. put up 20 years of tax returns. i understand why people don't do it but that's the kind of we need in both parties. as president. >> when we talk after the last debate, in california, you said nobody likes to know it. all you seem to have, at least at that point, made the decision not to, -- >> i'm not a know it all. >> what i was gonna say, to be as aggressive and become as hot as you had before. you just, everybody went wow. i know that was the point of what you did. but how do you think that's gonna get you enough votes to beat donald trump. >> so, i've actually made it pretty clear decision however approaching this race. certainly for the remainder of it, is for most of this race today. i'm not a political horse race analyst. i think the candidates at their best when they're not calculating how you're building some sort of patchwork path using effective political slogans to when certain groups, focus groups or otherwise. we're not running this campaign that way. i'm unrestrained in speaking what needs to be spoken that the other people are not saying. about the republican party, the democratic party, the media. my bet is, that's gonna be the winning political strategy. when i travel this country, that'll be some vote voters. for their second title of the poll tested platitudes. i'm not somebody does well with poll tested platitudes anyway. we'll go with the truth of where i'm at my best, which is being unvarnished. being unshackled. speaking the truth, not just when it's easy, but when it's hard. i think our bet is to be a successful approach. >> one of the arguments that you made was that nikki haley is not being consistent because she allows her daughter, who i believe is an adult kid, an adult, to use tiktok. she was never happy with that. let's listen to what happened. >> i want to laugh at when nikki haley didn't answer your question last debate she made fun of me freshly joining tiktok while her own daughter was actually using the app for a lot. take care of your family first. >> leave my daughter out of your voice. >> the next generation of americans are using it. that's actually the point. you have the supporters ramping her up. that's fine. here's the truth. >> scum. >> easy answer. >> she said you're scum. at the end. >> here's what i would say, the last debate, the exact quote was i feel dumber every time you speak after the tiktok issue. lecturing families across this country about leaving tiktok. it's not a sin to be on tiktok, the dirty little secret is it's a generational divide. most people getting people who weigh me are and then a learning moment is gonna be talking about tiktok sanctimoniously onstage, without mentioning that her own adult family members of the next generation are on it, we're not fixing the problem by just retreating and signaling our virtue. to the contrary, the question came up in the context of hamas, pro hamas content. spreading across tiktok. you think we're helping that? by actually exiting as opposed to offering an alternative voice? i think it's a failure of leadership. that leaders like nikki haley would rather signal their virtue, pick on tiktok, say, i joined tiktok to reach the next generation of americans. reflects a startling lack of self awareness to know that republican party needs to reach young voters. how about the young voter in your own family, i think it's a fair question to ask about a lack of self awareness. it's a generational divide. she talks about a new generation of leadership. she's on the other side of that. >> you have very young kids. i recognize that it's different from grown kids. why bring up somebody's family member? isn't that a little bit of a blow below the belt? >> no. it's not a sin for young voters on tiktok, i think the error is somebody sanctimoniously lecturing the rest of the country about the perils of it. while actually failing to set an example of leadership. a little closer to home. i think that gets to the core point. the republican party are not gonna win by going back into our shell, and hiding from the next generation -- the older generation republicans, they say, tiktok has some big things. american-owned companies can't get over the data. china say are answers when people in their own communities tools, families, young people, are using it and we're doing a disservice by not showing up and actually engaging with them. that's why -- we're gonna have another quick break ahead of us. up next, a political rally the former president is leading here in florida -- most of the candidates were here. the ones that make the debate stage. we'll talk about that after thte brbreak. >> as we just mentioned, rather than appear tonight, the former president and leading candidate for the republican presidential race decided to throw a political rally just up the road from where his challenges were, joining us now is kristen holmes, what happened at the rally? >> yeah, anderson, look, this rally was meant to court hispanic voters. this is a voting bloc that trump's team feels like there is a lot of opportunity, we know that trump saw significant gains with his hispanic voters between 2016 and 2020. and they do believe that they can grow before 2024. donald trump in his effort to appeal to hispanic voters, particularly cuban voters, likened the criminal charges and trials against him to political persecution. >> just like the cuban regime, the biden regime is trying to put their political opponents in jail, shutting down free speech. taking bribes and kickbacks to enrich themselves and their very spoiled children. >> and anderson, obviously there is nothing substantiated about that, that these are the same in any way. however, one thing to point out, here i talked to a number of cuban voters and hispanic voters that were at the rally as well as members of the community who said that this really spoke to them. they were wearing shirts that had donald trump's mugshot on them, they had shirts that said never surrender. they said that what was happening in america reminded them of what happened in cuba. i think we need to point that out, because clearly this message is resonating with at least some people and there were thousands of people at this rally. the other thing i do want to point out that happened at this counterprogramming event was are -- their huckabee sanders did invoke doors trump, important to note, here because of course it is happening the same week that came, reynolds iowa governor, endorsed ron desantis. >> and which of the republican candidates if any is the trump campaign keeping a closer eye on? >> you know, anderson, i think they are keeping a very close eye still on ron desantis. i think even though they project full confidence, there is still concern, particularly about iowa that can be a wildcard. they also have their eyes on nikki haley, they know that she is having a moment, they have seen the poll numbers as well. now, when you talk to them on the record, in private, in public, they really do have a level of confidence in the polls, but their eyes are still on, again, roundest, ron desantis and nikki hayley in particular. and it is really about iowa specifically, just this idea that there could be a wildcard, the idea of the caucus is not being a primary, that people can be convinced. they are just not 100%, particularly trump lost iowa in 2016. so they are watching that very closely. >> all right, thank you so, much back with our panel. you want to talk about -- >> he always wants to talk about, it he always wants to talk about vivek. >> i wanna talk about tiktok. now, look, this whole attacking haley on this tiktok on the daughter, a terrible idea, but the idea of saying that she was sanctimonious or hypocritical, he joined tiktok on september the 14th, five days before he announced that he was at a town hall meeting in iowa telling all the iowans there that it's like digital fentanyl, and how china was using it to infiltrate the united states. five days later he gets a call from some youtuber or influencer or whatever, jake paul, and now he is on tiktok, and now he is assailing nikki haley and stupidly attacking her daughter. the amount of flip-flopping and absolute rewriting of his own personal narrative, mere hours after seeing something elsewhere days in his campaign. it's just ridiculous, and i think that if he keeps talking fast and talking a lot, people won't notice. but the reality is, they have. because he is plummeting and haley is rising, i just think this whole line of attack on her tonight is wrong and it is gonna backfire. >> but i was gonna, say a little earlier, when gloria was talking. in some ways, the ramaswamy thing is not super consequential, except that it made nikki haley look like a fighter. and that has been really beneficial to her on these last really last three debates. after every single time she has come away from the debate, looking when she knows how to take it to her opponents. and that has really been helpful. in a republican primary, if there are people out there looking to see who could eventually be on a hypothetical debate stage with donald trump, that is the main question. are you quick on your feet? can you handle the blow by blow, when he said that she was wearing three inch feels and acting like cheney, she had a come back for that. >> she said i use them for ammunition, and they are five inch heels. >> so it doesn't, i, mean ramaswamy is like in the single digits, so doesn't matter not respect. but it has, i think, in some ways helped -- >> i tell you, something he said that he is a not a horse race analyst. but he actually is kind of a weather vane. in politics, mary comer once said in cowboy movies no one shoots backwards. he was going after her for a reason. he knows that she is the one who is moving. up one of the things you look for in this debate is who is taking the most incoming? and the person who is taking the most incoming is the person who is moving. and she took a lot of incoming. >> but she looks, good as a result of. it and he looks terrible. so it backfired on him. >> i mean, he didn't only criticize her daughter, he didn't really criticize her daughter, he criticized her motherhood. pay attention to what is going on at home. >> i think that's really why he took -- >> that's what really touched a nerve. >> he was after all the republican women's, that he was after haley, i'm sure, and by the way. he was after rhonda right out of the gate. >> and then pursue -- >> yes. >> by the, way in our interview dana, he is here with the republican culture of losing under -- poll who appointed her? donald trump! who was the president during all of these election cycles. donald trump, he didn't have the courage to say that. so he is up after rhonda. but he has nothing for the guy who appointed her and then backed her for her current term? >> but i do think the vague is sort of his creation of the donald trump maga era, where you are going to see these mini versions of trump. but today, and i am knocking on wood that this is the case, they have not been able to gain steam and following the way donald trump has. he has the sort of cachet and value to him. the celebrity status that allows him to be a bully, to name call, to say things that make women whirl their eyes and wish that he would say them. and with vivek it's had the opposite effect, i said it from the first time he came, out it was a roarshark test. some men were, like you, know some populist reitman were, like that was pretty powerful. republican women hated it. he did not appeal to them, his numbers went down with them, and he is precipitously declining. >> and i just say one thing? that we probably should've said it right at the beginning, there was some discussion before all these debates began about whether trump was doing the right thing by not coming and so on. i mean, that has turned out to be a brilliant strategy, because he rightly knew that, first of all, if you were there, then there would be a much larger audience. secondly, he would draw all the fire, and he knew if he wasn't there, there would be smaller audiences, and they would spend their time going after each other. and i got exactly what they've done. >> and they wouldn't go after. >> him you know, what it's gonna be a real reawakening, i think, for this country, when donald trump really is front and center. he will be on some kind of stage. but what he is going to talk about is so different from what was discussed for two hours on this debate stage. people, i think, are going to be really shocked by just the retroactive nature of everything that he talks about at these rallies. it is all vengeance, it is all -- >> there will be a debate where he is asked questions. >> it is not any of this policy stuff, all of this policy stuff is great and interesting, but that is not what trump's gonna be doing. >> more reaction ahead, including from republican voters in iowa. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> it has just hit 11 pm here in new york, in miami, where the third republican presidential debate is now in the books. >> 5 candidates this, time nikki haley and ron desantis, the two leading contenders to donald trump getting the most attention. vivek ramaswamy again made his presence known. >> [laughter] that's one way of saying it. we watched the first two debates, voters in iowa were watching the debates this time, first more of the action from the debate stage tonight, governor ron desantis having this to say about the former president. >> now if you look where we are, now it's a lot of where we were in 2016. donald trump's a lot different guy than he was in 2016. he owes it to you to be on this stage and explain why he should get another chance. he should explain why he didn't have mexico pay for the border wall. he should explain why he racked up so much debt. he should explain why he didn't drain the swamp. and he said republicans were gonna get tired of winning. what we saw last night, i am sick of republicans losing! >> let's go now to cnn's gary tuchman who watched this debate as he has for all three with voters in nevada, iowa, gary? >> anderson, we are just 68 days from the first in the nation iowa caucuses. and because of that we have come to iowa for all three of the debates to talk to loyal republicans about the debates, and these are some of those loyal republicans. this is nevada, iowa. this is the county seat of story county, right in the middle of the state of iowa. and we have come here each of the debates to see what has changed and what hasn't changed after each of these debates. so i'm gonna ask you who think did best in this debate. but first, i want to ask you just a one sentence headline, if you were going home and telling someone about this debate, what would you say in one sentence? what would your headline be in the newspaper? >> i like this debate much more than the first two, and i would love to see the differences enunciated between the two candidates this time. >> calm, controlled, informative. >> character, counsel, name-calling, and 4 to 5 people on the stage i could see being in the white house. >> foreign policy takes center stage. >> unlike the democrats the topic were saying, reasonable, had reasonable consideration. >> not really a debate, more of just a structured discussion. >> gop stands in solidarity and support of israel. >> a much more civil debate tonight. >> trump won another one. >> because he wasn't there. >> that's right. >> i appreciate ramaswamy bringing up nuclear as a medium for energy dominance in america. >> yes. >> they all mentioned the need for a larger u.s. navy fleet. none of them mentioned the need for a larger u.s. merchant marine fleet to provide the needed logistics support that they have a war event. >> that's a long headline. okay. >> more substance, less spectacle. >> third time is the charm. >> third times the, charm we are gonna talk a little three times, the first time we were here most of you said that ramaswamy one, quote unquote, when the debate. the second debate most of you said desantis did. haley came in in second both times. so my question is, who do you think, quote unquote again, won the debate? it is not scientific. but we have been with you three times. now doing alphabetical, order who thinks christie won the debate? zero. who thinks desantis won the debate, one, two, three, four. who thinks haley won the debate? one, two, three, four, five, six. who thinks ramaswamy won the debate? one, two, three. who thinks scott won the debate? so nikki haley who has come in second for the first two debates among this crowd in story county has come in first this time. who picked haley again, raise your hand? let me ask you, why do you think she won? >> i think she was attacked by people, and that means that they fear her, and i think that she is strong and she reacted appropriately and she is not a pushover. >> brett parker, he is the mayor here of nevada, why do you think she won? >> i think with foreign policy being center, stage it really plays into her strength, and they spent a lot of time on that topic. and we saw her go toe to toe with the tyrants of the u. n. and you can see are doing that is president. >> jeff, who did you pick? >> nikki haley. >> why do you think she won? >> same reason, with all that's going on in the world, foreign policy is forefront in everyone's mind. been a university, or she is the most experienced of all of them. and i think that played into her strengths. >> who picked desantis? what do you think desantis won? >> well unlike the other candidates, he is, aside from scott, he actually holds office right now. and that offices in the executive branch. so everybody else says what they would do or what they did ten years ago, desantis says what he is doing now and what he is going to be doing once he changes his position. >> who picked ramaswamy? okay. why do you think ramaswamy? by the way, i think you were referring to ramaswamy when you said four out of five people qualified to be president? >> that is correct. >> okay? why do you differ from them? >> i think he wasn't afraid to speak his mind and i think everyone else was kind of in sync with each other and didn't really vary as much as he did. and he just wasn't afraid to go against the grain. >> 13 people, there are 12 of you who voted for donald trump in the 2020 election, this gentleman in the upper left used to be a democrat, he just changed his registration to republican. so he didn't vote for trump. he didn't vote for biden though either? >> that's correct. >> who did you vote for four years ago? >> i voted for andrew yang. >> okay, voted for yang. all of, you 12, you 12 of the 13 voters for trump. how many of you are ready to vote for donald trump right now in the caucuses? how many of you will caucus for trump? just two. so 12 of you voted for donald trump for president, but only two of you are ready to caucus for him. why is that? they want to speak about that? why are you ready to support trump? >> i like the donald, he's not perfect, but i think it's possible that he gets felonies that the democrats are going to take him off the ballot. and so we need desantis as our backup plan. >> what about you? how come you are not ready to vote for trump. >> about the same reason, i am afraid of his legal status and i don't think that he would, i think he could win, but i don't think he would win. >> so you are afraid he might end up in prison? >> at least off the ballot because of his legal issues. >> okay. i want to tell all of, you thank you for talking to me, or any of you closer to voting for somebody but you didn't come in for? knowing who you would vote for because of this debate? >> you are closer, closer to who? >> i was a big fan of mike pence, and obviously that changed. >> you are closer to haley now? >> i am, yeah. >> you? >> i think i am closer to desantis. >> i want to thank all of you for talking with us, it is been a pleasure being with you again, anderson, the winner today in this group at least, nikki haley. that is the story, in story county, iowa. back to you >>. great to hear from the same folks each night, it was really, thank them, thank them very much, gary? back with the panel, joining us, cnn political -- special advisor van jones. we haven't heard you from tonight, what do you make of it? >> i thought nikki haley gave a master class on foreign policy, i thought she gave a master class on abortion. if you just took those two clips, you could teach a course on political communication, conversation. she is a force, she is a force. i also thought israel was mentioned, i thought the republican party took advantage of some of the disarray in the democratic party and stuck up for jewish kids who are, you know, scared to leave their dorm rooms and all that kind of stuff and came very, very forcefully, saying that jewish kids shouldn't be scared to leave their dorm rooms in this country. i thought that was an important development in the conversation. >> i think that listening to the focus group, they saw nikki haley as a fighter. and republicans like fighters, as we know. they think donald trump is a fighter. >> for instance. >> and so she had to fight tonight because everybody was attacking her. but i also want to add something else, that, and this was also mentioned in the focus group, this was a substantive debate also. and, you know, haley and christie were talking about raising the retirement age. which donald trump has said, you know, he would never do that. they are talking about foreign policy, ukraine, israel, and so i think the focus group kind of appreciated that. >> so van, i think you are calling out the debate in conversation on israel antisemitism is right on. haley actually mentioned the things that are going on on college campuses, in her opening statement, which i thought was smart. she didn't quite make the connection, but republicans have made the connection that, you know, joe biden's presidential campaign was based on charlottesville. and what happens there. and now we are having 100 charlottesville's a day on campuses all across this country, and the left, is your, word in disarray. i totally agree with you. and, you know, jewish voters normally break for democrats in these presidential campaigns. i think these republicans got it right tonight. and i think the republican party has a chance here to be on the correct side of this morally and politically. and you heard that from all of the candidates, haley kind of got the ball rolling, but i was pleased to see the solidarity on that stage in support of israel. >> let's actually play that sound from nikki haley. >> what makes me so angry is that not only do you have the kids barricaded in the library, they have said they were gonna shoot up the kosher dining hall, you've got kids dorm rooms who are being set on fire because they have something related to israel on their doors. no person should ever have to feel in danger like this. and this is what i would say about our college presidents. if the kkk were doing this, every college president would be up in arms, this is no different. you should treat it exactly the same. antisemitism is just as awful as racism. and we have got to make sure they are protected. and for everybody that is protesting on these college campuses, in favor of hamas, let me remind you something. hamas said death to israel and death to america, they hate and would kill you to. >> just a master class of an answer there. and she brings a, knowledge and she brings a sobriety to the way that she is able to handle world events. i think what we have seen in recent weeks, even since frankly the last debate, it has a sobering effect on the conversation tonight. at least for the serious characters on the stage. whether it is the war in israel, developments in ukraine, and of course just what we are seeing domestically with that massive rise of antisemitism as well as islamophobia. and i think that what she emerges is someone who doesn't need to get up to speed, as u.n. ambassador, as a governor, as somebody who served, she knows how to address these issues on day one. the other thing to gloria's point that i think made her to me the winner of the night is that in this hypothetical situation that we may ever see donald trump and another republican on the debate stage, nikki haley would be the best prepared to actually take him on. she can be bullied but she can clap back at somebody, and she has got a strength to her that i don't think we have really seen in any of the other candidates. >> alyssa, what do the polling say last? the cnn polling. it had trump, the projected -- is trump capable of standing up and being a good world leader? surprising that i think you commented on this, the polling was very strong for americans think that trump is very strong leader internationally, perceived is such. so while she comes out swinging there, it may not make that much of a difference against trump on a one-on-one. >> can i say one other thing, i think that -- the focus on fentanyl, you know, i've spent a lot of time in the middle of the country, purple states, red counties, it's a pain point out there. and i think the republican party now, there are approach is sort of, have a trade war with china over it and a shooting war with mexico over it. so i think some of the policy prescriptions are little bizarre. but there is real pain out there on that point, they -- i lost one of my closest friends to a fentanyl overdose, it is devastating. you never get over it, because it just doesn't make sense. somebody is here today, and they are gone tomorrow. and i have got a kid in college, luckily as best i can tell he's a pretty good kid. but he says, you know, kids are out there doing all kinds of stuff. and you can smoke a joint that is laced with fentanyl these days and not know it until you hit the ground. >> like did make that, point, did make that point correctly. he said it doesn't even have to, you, know it's not even illegal narcotics, it is that they are getting into counterfeit drugs that are made and smuggled into the united states. and so it is a form of bio terrorism that people are being killed by fentanyl. it is not just kids smoking drugs. >> i think a lot of them were strong on that issue. all of them. >> so from a party perspective, as a democrat that's trying to figure out what do we have to be looking at going forward? you know, it seems to me that some of these issues that they touched on and were agreement on, therefore we don't have to pay them, i think democrats should be playing close attention. i do think it's very important, we can disagree about what is going on in terms of foreign policy, and what the israeli government is doing. we can disagree about stuff over there. we cannot disagree about stuff here. we cannot have hate here. we can't have people afraid here. we can't have jewish parents afraid to drop their kids off at the jcc here. and so if you let that become a partisan divide, i think that is very very dumb on the part of democrats, it should not be harvard immigrants to stand up to hate here. and that is i think an important takeaway. >> i feel very personally about this issue for a lot of reasons. so i think that i am horrified by what we have seen. but it is important, i mean. that we do attack hate in every form. and we had, not to touch on -- the tiktok discussion before. what is going on on social media right now is really alarming, and it is not designed to, it is not a righteous attempt to contain peoples anger, it's meant to inflame it and so, you know. when you say, i know what you mean, i know you are genuine when you say it, i am glad to see republicans on that side. but i hope we don't just view this as a tactical advantage, and that we recognize that hate is on the march. and in a lot of different forms -- >> against muslims, against jews, against everybody. >> i don't view it just as a tactical advantage. i believe in the old. abraham lincoln phrase. right makes might in this case. and i think if the republicans are right on this, and condemning the antisemitism and the absolute explosion of hate against jewish people and israel that we are seeing in cities and on college campuses all over this country, i think that is where most americans are. and i think the left is tied up in knots over this, because of what they see out of the young, progressive base in the democratic party, and they don't know to do with it. >> they are attacking joe biden. >> i know. >>--- >> if i could add to, that because i think, i, know we were all quick to call out when we did see a rise in far-right extremism, even neo-nazi-ism, donald trump, you know, sitting down with an individual whose name i don't even want to echo. that element does exist on the far-right. i am stunned by how prevalent and antisemitic element exists on the far left. and i think we are seeing it rapidly in realtime following that tragedy and terrorism of october 7th. in democrats, the whole country needs to get their hands -- democrats have to. i spoke to them another show to former secretary hillary clinton who gave a nuanced, thoughtful defense of israel's white right to defend itself, and she was booed by a number of young people in the audience who seemed to fundamentally not even understand israel's right to exist. we are failing a generation of young people in this country. >> yes. let's go back to dana in miami. dana? >> well, anderson, as you and the panel there were discussing before the break, vivek ramaswamy tonight called out republican national committee chair rhonda mcdaniel on the parties that bad electoral performance over the years. quoting him now, he said, we have become a party of losers, at the end of the, day i mean since rhonda mcdaniel took over as chairwoman of the rnc in 2017, we have lost 2018, 2020, 2022, no red wave, that never came. he said we got trounced last night in 2023, and i think we have to have a accountability in our party. again, that was vivek ramaswamy, i spoke with rhonda mcdaniel about it just a few moments ago. >> i have to ask you first about what vivek ramaswamy said. he went after you personally. >> he did, i am not gonna do that, i am always gonna focus on the democrats. i will say this, dana, this republican on republican in fighting, i am not running for president, so i'm not in this primary. it isn't helping our party. we lost races in 2022 because of vitriol within our party. we need every republican and then some to win elections. and the republican voters want to hear us talk about the border, fentanyl, israel, our kids, crime, inflation. and they want to see us take on joe biden. >> i understand that. but he, he was criticizing you personally, but it was also criticizing the notion of having a debate with somebody other than a conservative media outlet. i stand by our choice to go with a non-conservative media outlet. i think nbc did a great job, hugh hewitt and salem radio, a conservative outlet was part of that, but i will also say this, 42% of our country's independent. we are not gonna win election if we sit in an echo chamber of republicans media, and don't talk to other voters. about these issues. tonight, people, maybe for the first time, watching nbc, heard this 75,000 people died of fentanyl last year. maybe they learned things about our party that they hadn't heard, and took a look at one of our candidates and said maybe i'm gonna vote for them, that is what we have to do as a party, and if you can't take a tough question, then you probably shouldn't be running for president. >> i have to ask you about what happened yesterday. >> yes. you won in mississippi, but had a tough loss in kentucky. virginia, lost both houses. state legislature. in a night where republicans thought maybe you would sweep. and of course, in ohio lost the measure that allowed for abortion to happen as a part of the constitution. >> the rnc is a federal committee, so we are house, senate, presidential, we are not as involved in the state races. >> i totally get. >> that but i will give you a feel of what i, think and dana you've heard me say this on your show. many of the candidates in those races were being pummeled with advertising, lying about their stance on abortion, and they did not respond. and if you do not respond, allow becomes the truth. our candidates need to be conversant unable to get on tv and articulate where they stand on abortion, and talk about other things. but if ally is coming against each of the tune of $30 million and you sit silent, that lie becomes the truth. i have been saying this since before 2022, many of the consultants our party are saying don't talk about, it ignore it. if you watch the virginia, adds it was abortion, abortion, by the democrats. crime, crime from the republicans. and we are gonna need to talk about this issue, because women across this country care about this issue. i know this, because i am a suburban woman. >> what was interesting about virginia was that the governor, glenn youngkin, tried to do what you are describing right now. talk about it in a way that he thought would be more reasonable for suburban women. having limits on abortion but not an outright ban. and it didn't work. but there wasn't a lot of tv on that. if you look at the numbers, you have a lot to put a lot of money behind your message to let the voters know where you stand. if i were, running i would say, listen, the democrats are going to trying to find me, let me tell you where i stand. i am pro-life, but i do think we should have common sense limitations when a baby feels pain. and we should talk about that is a country. what do the democrats do? what is their exception? one is there a point that they won't have an abortion. gender selection, nine months, we need to have this conversation. but let me tell you, for me, instead of from the democrats. that did not happen in many of these races, define yourself before the democrats to find you. >> you need money to do that. >> we need money to do that. money was not an issue in virginia. >> so what happened? >> it is a choice as to how you advertise. and i am saying this as a suburban woman, one of the few in leadership in our country party, that is been saying this for two years. we have to address this issue you can just ignore it and see you can run crime ads and the ignore this issue. >> one last question, the person not here is the one polling far and ahead away from anybody else who is on the debate stage. do you have any dictation that he will show up at any of the debates that you put on? >> i don't, you know, president trump as the former president is leading very, very well in the polls. and he feels that he shouldn't have to come to debate and that is part of a strategy. but i know he will debate the democrat, joe biden, if he is the nominee. he is open to debates, he has never been afraid of debates. that is part of what a strategy has been through this primary process. >> thank, you appreciate it. >> thank you for having me on. >> up next, daniel dale is back with another fact check on the candidates. namely, to the point of anderson's conversation with the panel a moment ago, governor desantis who accused president biden of being soft on antisemitism. nice footwork. man, you're lucky, watching live sports never used to be this easy. now you can stream all your games like it's nothing. yes! [ cheers ] yeah! woho! running up and down that field looks tough. it's a pitch. get way more into what you're into when you stream on the xfinity 10g network. ♪ ♪ ♪ welcome back, with a third republican debate now don inducted, cnn fact-checker daniel dale has been looking carefully at what the candidates said, and in this, case what roadrunners and a set on stage about president bones biden's response to antisemitism in the country. daniel, here is what governor desantis said. >> and what is biden doing? not only is he not helping the jewish students who are being persecuted, he is launching an initiative to combat so-called islamophobia. no, it is the antisemitism that is spiraling out of control. >> so what are the facts on that remark? >> anderson, this claim is highly misleading in a couple of ways, number one, let's know that the governor used the phrase of so-called islamophobia. islamophobia, hatred or fear of suspicion of muslims if not a so-called, it is a very real thing that people in this country have been killed over. including recently, unfortunately, i very much exists. number two, the governors clear suggestion here is that the president, the biden ministration, is only addressing islamophobia and not antisemitism at all. and that is just not true. while the biden administration to announce last week that it is developing a national strategy to counter islamophobia, biden's white house had already released its national strategy to combat antisemitism months ago, anderson. in may, and this week biden education department issued guidance reminding schools that they have a legal obligation to address incidents of both islamophobia and antisemitism. in addition, we know that president biden himself has repeatedly denounced antisemitism, both in the wake of hamas attacks in october, and four years before. a quick google search i did this evening brought up numerous examples dating back years. so the pretty inflammatory suggestion here that biden is ignoring in this moment in favor of muslims after the attack, it's just not correct. >> all right, thank you very much. let's go back to dana. >> thank, you anderson, joining me now, here in the spin room is a cnn chief national affairs correspondent jeff zeleny, who has been spending a lot of time on the campaign trail but these candidates. what was your take away? >> look, i think the takeaway is that you can really feel the urgency in the arguments of the candidates. i don't know that anything particularly happened tonight that is going to suddenly cause an awakening within iowa or new hampshire voters that, boy, i'm gonna go with this person, but you can sort of see the race contracting. five candidates onstage, by the time the next debate happens, probably even fewer. so this really is narrowing. this is considerably different than the race in 2015 and 16. it is narrowing, but the biggest takeaways are that nikki haley and ron desantis are still in each other's way to be the leading alternative to donald trump. and i think that they each had some moments tonight. i am not sure the voters were following specifically the ins and outs of the china debate. it seemed a little bit in the weeds here. but i do think some things that may linger, they are the abortion discussion. >> you know, i, we were talking about it before i interviewed tim scott, about what happened with ron desantis towards the end of the debate. where he was talking about the fact that republicans, we'll, people who are four or against abortion rights have lost in referenda all over the country, seven of them now. and very big ways. and he blamed what he called the pro-life movement. tim scott in tim scott's way pushed back on that a bit. do you think that is gonna maybe hurt desantis in iowa? >> it will be interesting to see how this is sort of a distilled thing, because tim scott is obviously going after the evangelical vote, as is ron desantis. so there's a pretty big forum in its next week actually, the week before thanksgiving in, iowa the iowa family leader. which is a very influential evangelical group, it's having all the candidates in. so we will see if that sort of echoes and resonates. it might, but the bottom, line i think also the position that nikki haley has looking for a consensus. you heard the applause in the audience for that. so she has been able to walk this line on abortion, she, you know, she says she is pro-life in her words. but she calls for consensus, and there is an appetite for that. so she is going to suburban voters, i think that is pretty important. but again, this is a bit of a carpet, i think we have to say, the winner of this debate and certainly the person commanding this lead of this race was not here tonight. he was down the road and highland. >>, yes ronna mcdaniel just told me, well, she doesn't expect him to come to any of the primary debates at all. but she does expect him, if he is -- to go to the general election debate. we will see if it happens. -- >> i mean it's hard to make that, argument right if donald trump, why should his opponent, if it is joe biden, which we think it will, obviously, why should he debate him if donald trump didn't do these debates. but i am wondering how iowa new hampshire voters will react to that. they are used to seeing the candidates debate. so we will see if he ends up getting in perhaps for that final debate,. he has not been scrutinized or seen as much as some of these candidates. >> yes, and meanwhile, he is having this rally not too far from here. at a really, really heavily latino area. which is very noteworthy. i mean, it's south florida. so it is very, very specific when you are looking at that sector. but that is, at this, point donald trump is already thinking about the kinds of groups that he needs for a new coalition in 2024. and the general election, in places like arizona, in places like, even in georgia and in wisconsin. that is definitely where the mindset is for donald trump. even as you are seeing his competitors continue to debate on stages like tonight without him. >> without, doubt he is looking to the general election, but he is also, i am, told still keeping a focus on iowa, he is going to be going back there in november and december, a lot, he is keeping his foot on the gas, and likely on the throat of some of these rivals, so they don't sort of emerge around him here. so again, a little over two months before the voting begins, time is running short for some of them to really emerge. but there are still open minds out there, i know it is hard to believe it sometimes, but there are still people who are eager to move on from trump, they are just not sure who to. but we have learned a lot this week about what the next year will bring in terms of abortion politics and other matters, so let's not get ahead of things. >> no, that is always your, mantra and i am with you on that, thank, you back to you anderson. >> thanks so much, prior to tonight's debate, a bunch of trump was the final witness in the new york civil fraud case against her father and her brothers don junior and eric. next, what she said in court today. ♪ ♪ ♪ just before the debate, in the former presidents rally this, evening the final member of his family testified in a new york courtroom, we will talk more about the effect his larger legal troubles might have on the race in a moment. in her testimony, today ivanka trump distanced herself from the financial documents at the center of the civil fraud, case that once counters a defendant. the state attorney general has now rested a case that could potentially affect the business empire that forms a cornerstone of the former president's identity. paris cannot with that court today and has more on ivanka trump's -- anderson, one thing that was notable was ivanka trump's demeanor, she was composed, she was polite, that was a stark contrast to her father's testimony on monday. where he was combative, now, the focus of the attorney generals questioning to her had to do with her involvement in a couple of loans. she was involved in alone for dirrell, the golf course in miami, as well as the old post office building in washington d. c.. the questions that she was faced with involved references the. emails where she is seeing that they had past the financial statements on to the bank in order to get these loans. so she was asked questions about that, because the allegation in this case is that these statements were fraudulent and that they received, the trump organization received better interest rates on those loans. so ivanka trump acknowledged that she was involved in these discussions, at a high-level. but she said she didn't really get herself involved in the nitty-gritty details of the lone specifics, including a personal guarantee their father had given on the loans. now, all of that she was questioned about specifically the old post office building, that was a deal that she was heavily involved in negotiating, and there was evidence shown today, a documented to getting that the federal government had called out that the trump organization had deviated from accounting roles on the financial statements. she was asked about that, and whether it came up during a meeting that she attended and washington d. c. with her father. over this deal, and asked if those financial statements irregularities came up. she testified that she didn't recall them coming up, and she said that the focus of that meeting was about her vision. she was also asked about her apartment that she has in manhattan on park avenue, and she had a purchase option to buy that apartment for eight and a half million dollars. she was shown evidence that the former president had put on his financial statements look at that same apartment could be sold and was worth 20 million it is about twice as much and she was asked about that she testified that she had no knowledge of his father's financial statements, had no idea what went in to or added them another consistent line, similar to what her brother is don jr. near trump had previously testified to, they were not involved in the financial statements at the center of this case. now, after her testimony concluded the new york attorney generals office rested their case, and here is what the new york attorney general said outside of court. >> at the end of the day, this case is about fraudulent statements of financial condition that she benefited from. she was encouraged and clearly you cannot distance yourself from that fact. the documents do not, why the numbers do ottawa. >> trump's team is expected to present their defense on monday, they signal they are going to call back possibly donald junior and eric trump as well as some thinkers who will testify that they were not misled by -- their defense could go to the middle of next month. anderson? >> back to the panel, -- they worry about trump's legal entanglement. keith it will be a factor? >> that's the ultimate question. when i was listening to the panel -- i was hoping jason miller and -- getting out of iowa and kind of just abusing the folks that he cannot run they are some sort of 14th amendment issue. because he can run, right? people are clearly concerned the, can't any heard somebody say, one of the gentleman's, they are like desantis as a backup, right? so that is the theory of the case. as we are there as a backup, and one saying, how do you go bankrupt slowly than all at once? that is their fear. i suppose, the people, that this kind of momentum will build against trump, and then he will, collapse and then they will be there to kind of take over. they beat, israel maybe it is, not but i know that is what nikki haley unrepresented are counting on. >> i think, go ahead, 6% of primary voters in the new york times poll who were pro trump said they could conceivably change their minds, if he were convicted. in any of these cases. and i think that is kind of a large number to think about, and i think it is of some concern, as you hear these people in this focus group tonight, and i think it is going to be a question of whether he really is convicted by a jury. >> i said if he gets convicted, maybe not so much by a judge here, but by a jury. >> you know, what i saw that number, and i think it's really valid point, but i just, how many times have we said, you know, he'll never get away with that. you know? and you know exactly what is gonna happen because of the conviction, it's gonna come in this trial in new york, and he is gonna say, you know -- >> when we were young and naive. -- wearing ties on the air. >> he is going to be depicted, you heard what was said earlier about what he said at this rally in florida. you know, this is like cuba, you know, this is a political prosecution like they are in cuba, whatever you think about donald trump, and i have plenty of thoughts about donald trump, what you cannot deny is this feral genius he has for branding and for, you know, spinning and framing his situation. i, mean the fact that 60 to 70% of republicans believe the last election was stolen in some way? despite all the evidence to the contrary, the fact that so many believe these prosecutions are politically motivated, it speaks to his ability to do that. so i believe that number, but i just, the reality is -- >> the reality is also that the the court can make it incredibly unlikely that in the most important cases that those will even be rectified, headed the election. just with an appeals process in the doj documents, case i, mean that could get planted into the year after the election. so the likelihood that number did send out to me -- what is the jack smith's case. likely we will see that before the election, even so, what stood out to me in that focus group was just the general confusion from voters. will he not be on the ballot if he is indicted? you know, all the democrats -- >> i was the campaign -- >> i didn't say is i would be so disappointed in him if he were convicted of a crime. trying to overturn a free and fair elections and i couldn't possibly vote for him. that is not they were -- >> if you couldn't be on the ballot with somebody else. >> these are all concerns we have seen board out of other polls about, you know, a lot of republicans say that if he is convicted of a felony. i will not vote for him in general election. that's what they say. so they're not being exposed in the same way. >> but new people, who like the message. we just saw this, poll african american men, hispanic, it's growing in a few different parts of the pot. >> i mean i think that something is happening out there, right now because they're saying he's not being seen giving speeches. he's being seen as a martyr in court. and i think that's creating some sympathy in strange places. you saw the polling data that shows blackmon spit 50/50, trump, biden. so, now the strategies picking up, i'm a victim, my mom order. and when he does stop talking about the stuff that you're talking, about and what he's going to do as president some of the stuff may change. but right now, his legal strategy is working for him politically. >> good news, because he's going to be in court a lot. >> just ahead, announcement on what the candidates had to say about israel's war against hamas. with israel's military, standing what it calls the heart of gaza city, more than a month of the the october 7th attack, third to the question of the israel and hamas early in the evening. here's ron desantis on what he would say to israel. >> i will be telling them finish the job once and for all with these butchers. they are terrorists, they are massacring innocent people, they would wipe every off the globe if they could. he cannot live with that threat right by his country. that hamas should release every hostage. and they should unconditionally salute render. i'm sick of being the media, i'm sick of people blaming israel just for defending itself. >> joining us now, with the perspective, political and foreign policy reporter at axios. it sounds like netanyahu gets more support on that stage than some people in israel have for him. >> i think that's completely true, we but when you're a candidate in a primary, you can really say whatever you want. you have no responsibility and especially when your candidate we have to be honest, all of the five people that we saw on stage today are not really going to be the republican nominee for the presidential race. so, you know, they could say whatever they want. >> how important is the outcome to israel's war against hamas? well this is going to be a long war even if it's not going to look the way it looks right now. so i think that whoever is going to be in the white house in january 2025 is going to be very important towards what's going on on the ground in israel. especially because there will be a day after. and at least the israeli government doesn't have a plan at the moment. and whoever is going to be the president, would want to know what's going to happen after the war so now it's going to be joe biden but maybe in january 2025 and somebody else. and even if it's somebody else he wants to know what's going on to. >> -- overall security response for, quote, an indefinite period but i mean what does that mean? are they talking about the palestinian authority trying to get the palestinian authority? because they've already said that they won't come in riding on israeli tanks to take over gaza. >> anderson, we started with the republican primary, and we are now going to what's going to happen in the israeli politics after this war. because i don't think, whoever is in power in israel right now especially prime minister netanyahu will be the one that will call the shots about what's going to happen the day after the war. it is very clear -- [inaudible] given the failures that led up to october 7th? >> i think if you look at israeli history you can see what happened after the 1973 war even if it took some time. and you can see what happened after the first, whether he had lost to the labour party. you could see what happened after the labour party lost. and, usually after those things and especially when it comes to really, one of the biggest if not the biggest dramas in the history of israel. i just cannot see how this thing cannot lead to an early election. and the new government within the next, i don't know, six months. >> does israel have any kind of exit plan for the war besides a reoccupy -- i don't know what overall security means other than, is it is really troops on the ground? >> i think what it means right now is netanyahu would want to see in gaza, a similar situation as you see in the west bank. meaning that even if you're not going to keep tens of thousands of soldiers inside the gaza strip, israel will not be like you had on october six. that there is a cease-fire, and nobody is doing anything. there will be, if israel will see a security threat they will strike from the air. or it will go on the ground raid. during the night, the same way as you see within the west bank in recent years. >> in the total defeat of hamas, can that be measured? there's a lot of people who conveyed in into the civilian population. >> i am, but i think that when netanyahu says that the destruction of hamas in means first that hamas military capability to thread israeli towns and villages on the border and with rocket fire to other parts of israel. i think that's the number one thing. the second thing is hamas's leadership. do they think that the israeli military and israeli leadership wants to see those people dead? after this war. so i think that those two things are pretty measurable. and obviously hamas is not going to disappear. it's a political movement. it's an ideology. but the question is whether it's military capability will disappear on the day after the war. >> thank, you always good to talk to. appreciated. >> news continues here on cnn, next. c'mon, we're right there. c'mon baby. it's the only we need. go, go, go, go! ah! touchdown baby! -touchdown! are your neighbors watching the same game? yeah, my 5g home internet delays the game a bit. but you get used to it. try these. they're noise cancelling earmuffs. i stole them from an airport. it's always something with you, man. great! solid! -greek salad? exactly! don't delay the game with verizon or t-mobile 5g home internet. catch it on the xfinity 10g network.
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